It's so sad I have to laugh!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Nov20.html
Yeah, let's give schools MORE money...LOL...
Yes schools should get more money to run and operate them more efficently.
More teachers, better work enviornments, (classrooms) would increase the ability for children to learn... how you ask?
Well, if there are more teachers , the kid to teacher ratio is is better.
Fewer children per teacher the better the teacher can dial in on the childrens needs as apposed to just skimming the top and hoping the kids grasp the concept.
More teachers, better work enviornments, (classrooms) would increase the ability for children to learn... how you ask?
Well, if there are more teachers , the kid to teacher ratio is is better.
Fewer children per teacher the better the teacher can dial in on the childrens needs as apposed to just skimming the top and hoping the kids grasp the concept.
SG Theme SongThe Devil wrote:Tolerance is a virtue, not a requirement.
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monkeyhead
- Posts: 2758
- Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:27 am
- Location: Killeen, TX
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Yes schools should get more money to run and operate them more efficently.
More teachers, better work enviornments, (classrooms) would increase the ability for children to learn... how you ask?
Well, if there are more teachers , the kid to teacher ratio is is better.
Fewer children per teacher the better the teacher can dial in on the childrens needs as apposed to just skimming the top and hoping the kids grasp the concept.
Unfortunately I think there are too many ill-prepared teachers who find themselves overwhelmed by the "real-world" necessities of the classroom. I think there should be more focus on practicuum in college for aspiring teachers, instead of the short times they usually spend as assistants.
A major problem with schools (at least here in Oklahoma) are the incredibly superfluous superintendent positions; we have men and women making upwards of $120,000 a year but overseeing extremely small school districts. Consolidation of these positions would free up a ton of money that could then be funneled into the kind of things you've stated.
Originally posted by monkeyhead
how important is geography though.... other than in "Who wants to be a millionaire" or "Jeopardy" some of this is quite sad, but still i cant remember when i went on a job interview and they asked wheres the pacific ocean....
For one, geography helps in being able to understand how and why certain countries developed the way they have, whether it's economically, socially or politically.
Originally posted by monkeyhead
how important is geography though.... other than in "Who wants to be a millionaire" or "Jeopardy" some of this is quite sad, but still i cant remember when i went on a job interview and they asked wheres the pacific ocean....
and hence our young people of America don't know Geography
this is the attitude where it comes from
'why do i need it' 'how is it important'
they don't understand yet
and if the student is un-willing or un-interested in learning it they will NEVER truely learn it
"Would you mind not standing on my chest, my hats on fire." - The Doctor
Originally posted by Brent
and if the student is un-willing or un-interested in learning it they will NEVER truely learn it
Hopefully students with that kind of attitude will come across one (or more!) of those teachers that make you WANT to learn and that you strive to please. I had four of them throughout the years, and I believe they influenced me to improve my studies in the subjects they didn't even teach as well.
Curiosity is the key.....
What are your kids being taught right now? Facts? Bah....Even adults learn nothing if they arn't interested.
I still fail to see the MONEY tie in vs. education...
Fact is...in your home state, how does school bond voting go?
There are districts here, where they get voted down every year, even thought the classes are overcrowed...the buildings need major repair and so forth. Hell, we are schooling kids in modular classes because there isn't room in the main buildings.
Why? Because the kids going to those schools tend to come from poor families. Lots of immigrants (Hispanic) and cheap labor..
Whats odd is the amout of well to do voters in those districts...
Huumm....a puzzler untill you realize that they have the Why Should I Pay to send someone else's kid to school, syndrom....Add to that, their kids go to private schools or neighboring "better" public shools.....
Again......curiosity spells success..and a little money dosn't hurt a bit either.
What are your kids being taught right now? Facts? Bah....Even adults learn nothing if they arn't interested.
I still fail to see the MONEY tie in vs. education...
Fact is...in your home state, how does school bond voting go?
There are districts here, where they get voted down every year, even thought the classes are overcrowed...the buildings need major repair and so forth. Hell, we are schooling kids in modular classes because there isn't room in the main buildings.
Why? Because the kids going to those schools tend to come from poor families. Lots of immigrants (Hispanic) and cheap labor..
Whats odd is the amout of well to do voters in those districts...
Huumm....a puzzler untill you realize that they have the Why Should I Pay to send someone else's kid to school, syndrom....Add to that, their kids go to private schools or neighboring "better" public shools.....
Again......curiosity spells success..and a little money dosn't hurt a bit either.
The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, and prejudices to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all of its own for the children and the children yet unborn and the pity of it is that these things cannot be confined to the Twilight Zone.
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Deus ex Machina
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Krazy Kraut
- Regular Member
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- Location: Boston, MA
Originally posted by Krazy Kraut
thats sad
any one who cant find their OWN country is sad
u see what the education system has come to
I'm pretty sure that's already been established. Instead of continuosly belting out redundant statements (that have been well established already, I might add)go one step further for once, try something in a contstructive manor for once... man your a buzzkill dude.
SG Theme SongThe Devil wrote:Tolerance is a virtue, not a requirement.
how important is geography though.... other than in "Who wants to be a millionaire" or "Jeopardy" some of this is quite sad, but still i cant remember when i went on a job interview and they asked wheres the pacific ocean....
"If you only can see a tree not forest, the survival of that tree will be very bleak .
Your knowledge about the forest it will increase dramatically the survival of that tree."
MRB
"If you only can see a tree not forest, the survival of that tree will be very bleak .
Your knowledge about the forest it will increase dramatically the survival of that tree."
MRB
downhill, I know how you feel about the bonds.
I live ina small village outside of crummy buffalo, ny called kenmore. Here, our property values are directly linked to the fact we have good schools here. Yet, we've had two bonds issues crushed in the past couple of years. They would have fixed the schools up for A LONG TIME to come. I wish I would have been the man I am today and fighted for it. i have come to one conclusion as of late...
I hate old people. They're extremely selfish and so narrow visioned they cant even understand when something benefits them.
I live ina small village outside of crummy buffalo, ny called kenmore. Here, our property values are directly linked to the fact we have good schools here. Yet, we've had two bonds issues crushed in the past couple of years. They would have fixed the schools up for A LONG TIME to come. I wish I would have been the man I am today and fighted for it. i have come to one conclusion as of late...
I hate old people. They're extremely selfish and so narrow visioned they cant even understand when something benefits them.
Strap It On Whenever It Seems Appropriate
tomsclan.com
tomsclan.com
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Ghosthunter
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- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 12:00 pm
Originally posted by davy19
You can throw billions of dollars at our education, and it wont help a thing.
All comes down to the parents, and the child's dedication.
So your implying that we should not spend anything?
Public education still costs money. Sure you have to have parents that are interested. In your part of the country, that should be a major issue. What's being done to fix that?
I just get tired of hearing that we spend too much on education now...the truth is....that's a myth.
Our children are our future....An investment like no other.
What would Rush know about raising children, anyway?
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click_here
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Originally posted by downhill
So your implying that we should not spend anything?
no,I see and agree with what he is saying,(I think) he is saying it starts with the parents at home,of course the schools need all the $ they can get,but all the money in the world won't do a whole lot if the kids don't have the basic motivation and caring and some kind of structure at home FIRST !atleast thats the way I see it.
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Ghosthunter
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Originally posted by downhill
So your implying that we should not spend anything?
Public education still costs money. Sure you have to have parents that are interested. In your part of the country, that should be a major issue. What's being done to fix that?
I just get tired of hearing that we spend too much on education now...the truth is....that's a myth.
Our children are our future....An investment like no other.
What would Rush know about raising children, anyway?
Firts of all who is Rush? and what does Rush have to do with what I am discussing?
We spend too mcuh money, that is right, the education systems is like a big black hole, millions of dollars go into it but nothing comes out. There needs to be a better auditing system of where the money goes. That is why I say you can spend all the money in the world, but it wont help the kids.
The real problem we have is teachers who dont have a clue, and parents who dont really care.
How many parents actually spend at least 1 hour a day with thier kids and thier homework, and teaches them the importance of a good education?
Originally posted by davy19
Firts of all who is Rush? and what does Rush have to do with what I am discussing?
We spend too mcuh money, that is right, the education systems is like a big black hole, millions of dollars go into it but nothing comes out. There needs to be a better auditing system of where the money goes. That is why I say you can spend all the money in the world, but it wont help the kids.
The real problem we have is teachers who dont have a clue, and parents who dont really care.
How many parents actually spend at least 1 hour a day with thier kids and thier homework, and teaches them the importance of a good education?
Ok...if you read my post..you would see that I also agree with the parent issue...And to clarify...I believe changes are nessary....but...
The same old, we give too much money is a myth....
Teachers in this state start 2od from the bottom of all states...21,000 a year, I believe...
Who is going to go to school for four years for that? So in essence what you get is the bottom of the barrel for teachers.
The really good one's stay only because they love teaching and love living here.
You still did not answer my question..from where your from..the parent thing is a major issue.....
Cheap education is going to give us a very cheap workforce in the future...
We are a very shortsighted nation anymore...Our selfishness overrides our need to educate our young.
Blackhole?
Who is Rush? LOL...good one.
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Chris
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The problem is multi facited.
Kids with no outlook on the future and no will to succeed because all they hear about is war, no work, doom doom doom.
Then you have parents who by no fault of their own in many cases, both parents work odd and long hours to try and put food on the table and either are not home when the kids should study or are to tired to help.
Then you have the new generation of teachers. In it for the money and the great vacation packages, health and dental plans.
3 months off in the summer, every holiday some politician can dream up, off and paid for. Paid upgrading and courses that the minute they complete then there qualifications are higher and they are given instant raises.
School boards who are more interested in making money then providing education. They tore down our high school last year, nothing wrong with it but they were going to get big government bucks for turning the property into parland within the city. Replaced it with some stupid showpiece that is not big enough for the student population but has a state of the art auditorium that they rent out. It is rented out roughly 35 weeks a year so the students can not benefit from having access to this wonderful facility. If there is some concert booked, they send the kids home early so they can prepare the building.
The you have city officials who make them move the school away from the population to the outskirts, so the kids can now walk great distance to school and developers will pay big bucks for the surrounding land to build houses on because there is a new school there.
I remember when I was a kid, the future looked great, the present wasn't to bad either. We had teachers who teached for the love of teaching, not the paycheck. Teachers were commited to the proffession and to the kids.
Kids with no outlook on the future and no will to succeed because all they hear about is war, no work, doom doom doom.
Then you have parents who by no fault of their own in many cases, both parents work odd and long hours to try and put food on the table and either are not home when the kids should study or are to tired to help.
Then you have the new generation of teachers. In it for the money and the great vacation packages, health and dental plans.
3 months off in the summer, every holiday some politician can dream up, off and paid for. Paid upgrading and courses that the minute they complete then there qualifications are higher and they are given instant raises.
School boards who are more interested in making money then providing education. They tore down our high school last year, nothing wrong with it but they were going to get big government bucks for turning the property into parland within the city. Replaced it with some stupid showpiece that is not big enough for the student population but has a state of the art auditorium that they rent out. It is rented out roughly 35 weeks a year so the students can not benefit from having access to this wonderful facility. If there is some concert booked, they send the kids home early so they can prepare the building.
The you have city officials who make them move the school away from the population to the outskirts, so the kids can now walk great distance to school and developers will pay big bucks for the surrounding land to build houses on because there is a new school there.
I remember when I was a kid, the future looked great, the present wasn't to bad either. We had teachers who teached for the love of teaching, not the paycheck. Teachers were commited to the proffession and to the kids.
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Ghosthunter
- SG VIP
- Posts: 18183
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 12:00 pm
Originally posted by Chris
The problem is multi facited.
Kids with no outlook on the future and no will to succeed because all they hear about is war, no work, doom doom doom.
Then you have parents who by no fault of their own in many cases, both parents work odd and long hours to try and put food on the table and either are not home when the kids should study or are to tired to help.
Then you have the new generation of teachers. In it for the money and the great vacation packages, health and dental plans.
3 months off in the summer, every holiday some politician can dream up, off and paid for. Paid upgrading and courses that the minute they complete then there qualifications are higher and they are given instant raises.
School boards who are more interested in making money then providing education. They tore down our high school last year, nothing wrong with it but they were going to get big government bucks for turning the property into parland within the city. Replaced it with some stupid showpiece that is not big enough for the student population but has a state of the art auditorium that they rent out. It is rented out roughly 35 weeks a year so the students can not benefit from having access to this wonderful facility. If there is some concert booked, they send the kids home early so they can prepare the building.
The you have city officials who make them move the school away from the population to the outskirts, so the kids can now walk great distance to school and developers will pay big bucks for the surrounding land to build houses on because there is a new school there.
I remember when I was a kid, the future looked great, the present wasn't to bad either. We had teachers who teached for the love of teaching, not the paycheck. Teachers were commited to the proffession and to the kids.
Future is better then it has ever been, dont know where you are seeing all this doom and gloom? Sounds like an excuse not to do well in school.
Dont let a little terroism get you down.
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Ghosthunter
- SG VIP
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- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 12:00 pm
Then you have parents who by no fault of their own in many cases, both parents work odd and long hours to try and put food on the table and either are not home when the kids should study or are to tired to help.
Maybe they should think about birth control then if they wont take their job as being a parent serious. Have less kids if need be.
People need to be more responsible for their actions instead of laying their problems on others and hope it gets fixed.
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SeedOfChaos
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- Location: Comfortably Numb
David smells like Seattle spirit 
Without geography you cannot comprehend history. Without comprehension of history you cannot understand the mistakes mankind made in its history, thus you fail to learn from them and are doomed to repeat them.
Aside from that. Have you ever heard about "globalization", the big buzz word in economics? How are you going to globalize if you aren't even aware that something else is out there, or more precisely, what else is out there. Becoming aware of different cultures. That those cultures have their merits, and take over the best parts of each into your own.
Humans are afraid of uncertainty and often hate what they don't know, out of fear of it. By enlightment, knowing what lies in the dark, fear and hate can be reduced. Simply put, if everyone had a better grasp of how people live around the world - and WHERE - it would be a more peaceful place.
If all these fanatic extremists in the middle east just knew the American people better, they'd be aware that people in the US are not evil and hostile, but rather friendly good people. It would make them immune against hate propaganda.
This is why geography is important. IMO geography should be richer though, by not just pounding maps into people's heads but also teaching about the different cultures of the world.
My 2c,
Ronald
Originally posted by monkeyhead
how important is geography though.... other than in "Who wants to be a millionaire" or "Jeopardy" some of this is quite sad, but still i cant remember when i went on a job interview and they asked wheres the pacific ocean....
Without geography you cannot comprehend history. Without comprehension of history you cannot understand the mistakes mankind made in its history, thus you fail to learn from them and are doomed to repeat them.
Aside from that. Have you ever heard about "globalization", the big buzz word in economics? How are you going to globalize if you aren't even aware that something else is out there, or more precisely, what else is out there. Becoming aware of different cultures. That those cultures have their merits, and take over the best parts of each into your own.
Humans are afraid of uncertainty and often hate what they don't know, out of fear of it. By enlightment, knowing what lies in the dark, fear and hate can be reduced. Simply put, if everyone had a better grasp of how people live around the world - and WHERE - it would be a more peaceful place.
If all these fanatic extremists in the middle east just knew the American people better, they'd be aware that people in the US are not evil and hostile, but rather friendly good people. It would make them immune against hate propaganda.
This is why geography is important. IMO geography should be richer though, by not just pounding maps into people's heads but also teaching about the different cultures of the world.
My 2c,
Ronald
ex-WoW-addict
Oh boy… what a snake-pit this one is. Our education system is failing the kids everywhere, and I can’t see any single remedy to the whole thing. Throwing more money is not the answer, in and of itself. New York is a good example of that. I can dig out the figures again (just looked at ‘em a couple days ago) but we are something like 4th highest in per-capita spending on education, but something like 29th in performance and graduating percentage!! And yes- there certainly are geographic and demographic differences in results.
Yes- the home is where a lot of it needs to start. But, to expand that even further, I think it needs to be a change in the basic perception of how we are going to let the schools and teachers handle our kid’s education. And I don’t mean what they're teaching in curriculum. I mean the entire atmosphere of the school system, and what’s expected and should be demanded of the students. What ever happened to “loco parentis” ??? You cannot have a successful learning environment when students and even teachers fear for their safety. Our society has said to the schools “don’t you touch my little baby…. “ and “you can’t tell ME how to raise my kids” . There is no discipline what so ever in the schools, right down to the point the students that choose to, know they can get away with just about anything they want. Violence, truancy, drugs, there is no end. This has been, IMO, a basic shift over the last 20 years or so. I graduated 25 years ago, and things like this were not tolerated back then. You would never even consider talking back to a teacher, much less striking them. You would have had you’re a*s paddled in the gym, likely expelled, parents called in, you name it. There were boundaries, and they were defined and enforced.
Inner city schools are deplorable. But, how do we improve them? The better teachers aren’t going to come there, no matter how much you pay them. The students vandalize and destroy equipment and property, and truancy is at epidemic levels. Cops are in the halls to try and protect those who aren’t involved in the violence, but it’s like gang warfare there. What is the answer for these schools? I don’t know. Build them a better facility, and watch it be destroyed? Will the better building help stop stabbings? We’ve tried over the years sending the kids out into affluent areas, but that was a complete failure.
And, things aren’t so rosy out in suburbia either. Drug problems are rampant. But we can’t search little Bobby’s locker now can we? After all… he has rights. And if you do, his parents will sue the school, and probably win. When little Peter tells the teacher to fu** off, and spits in his/her face, God help that teacher if they grabbed the little bastard by the hair and dragged him to the office, or slapped him back. They would also be sued, and likely fired.
The whole discussion of teacher pay, tenure, and any of its relevance on the process is a completely separate discussion, and, the numbers show it has little bearing on the outcome. Our kids “graduate” from high school, and can barely read and write. They go into the workplace, with no skills, and a complete inability to communicate effectively. Yes, you could blame it on the teachers I guess, but by the same token, we’re supposed to “stupify” the classroom now. All are to be harmoniously blended together, in one happy congenous group, regardless of intelligence, ability, or ambition. To segregate students into classes of their like peers “doesn’t make them feel good”, and “isn’t fair” to little Bobby, who in 7th grade has the skills of an average 4th grader. We should insist that he be allowed in the class that Sarah is in, even though she has an IQ of 145, and studies calculus for “entertainment” in her spare time. Because, if we put Sarah in an “advanced” class (like they used to do) that wouldn’t be fair to the other students. And, it certainly wouldn’t be appropriate to place Bobby into a more remedial group of like peers, where they could gear the class to the speed of its learners….. because that wouldn’t make Bobby “feel good about himself”. Yes- it is all about feeling good about yourself. This is a divergence from the original question, but is nonetheless a problem in how are classrooms are being structured. All are to be moved to the median.
So, we spend money on Bond issues to build new schools, and expand what we have. Hmmmm… in my own community, we are completing a 24.3 million dollar school expansion, all to meet new state education department mandates for reduced classroom size; expanded program offerings; and increased special education facilities. But, we’re doing this with something like 30% less student enrollment than when I attended the same school!!! Wassup’ wi-dat ??? So, let’s see- every criteria we can measure our schools by has deteriorated in the last 25 years, and there 30% more kids in the same facility as today, yet we performed better. So throwing money at it is the answer? Just doesn’t seem likely.
There certainly is great disparity geographically in the amount of money spent on education. But, it doesn’t always seem to correlate with performance. It is interesting to compare our public school performance to that of parochial and private schools. Much higher median test scores; almost non-existent truancy; miniscule violence; and a generally superior learning environment. And, it certainly isn’t a result of money spent on teachers or facilities. Many parochial schools get by on meager little budgets; teachers are paid much less than their public counterparts in the same locale; many of their facilities are antiques in comparison to their new, shining public counterparts; yet they continue to perform better.
Why? Because B.S. isn’t tolerated!! Ever! Spit in Sister Mary’s face, and she’ll backhand you one onto the floor, and drag you to the deacon’s office. Hit your science teacher, and he’ll probably lay you out flat. See the difference??
So, yes- much of this begins in the home. An attitude, and a way of life. And yes- accountability. Funny how so many things come back to that. These kids aren’t accountable for anything they do. It’s the school’s fault; the teacher’s fault; the building’s fault. But, it’s never their fault. They’re not taught that it is, and don’t believe differently. And, it’s not supposed to ever be the teacher’s fault either… they don’t want to accept blame for anything. So who is to blame? The money is to blame? Someone will surely tell me soon that I’m too selfish…. That’s the problem.
It is scary. Comments like the one about “never being asked about geography” are just silly. I’ve gone through more than my share of resumes from prospective employees over the years, and the lack of skills is obvious. Kids can’t write. “R U sur they don’t? Y- i m. “
Education is indeed one of, if not THE most important things in society. All kids need it… and in our country, all kids deserve it. Indeed- if they need more money- spend it! But we must start looking deeper into the root cause of the problems. It is not strictly dollars and cents. Again, per capita spending on education in this country has increased dramatically over the past 2 decades, yet performance has fallen. So much for the direct link to the dollars. There’s more to it than that. Let’s quit trying to all “feel good about ourselves”, and start to make hard decisions. Any of you ever gone to a school board meeting? Sent a letter to a teacher or administrator? If you have – good ! If you haven’t, then think about doing it. Complacency is what let this happen in the first place. More of it will only make it worse!
Out.
Yes- the home is where a lot of it needs to start. But, to expand that even further, I think it needs to be a change in the basic perception of how we are going to let the schools and teachers handle our kid’s education. And I don’t mean what they're teaching in curriculum. I mean the entire atmosphere of the school system, and what’s expected and should be demanded of the students. What ever happened to “loco parentis” ??? You cannot have a successful learning environment when students and even teachers fear for their safety. Our society has said to the schools “don’t you touch my little baby…. “ and “you can’t tell ME how to raise my kids” . There is no discipline what so ever in the schools, right down to the point the students that choose to, know they can get away with just about anything they want. Violence, truancy, drugs, there is no end. This has been, IMO, a basic shift over the last 20 years or so. I graduated 25 years ago, and things like this were not tolerated back then. You would never even consider talking back to a teacher, much less striking them. You would have had you’re a*s paddled in the gym, likely expelled, parents called in, you name it. There were boundaries, and they were defined and enforced.
Inner city schools are deplorable. But, how do we improve them? The better teachers aren’t going to come there, no matter how much you pay them. The students vandalize and destroy equipment and property, and truancy is at epidemic levels. Cops are in the halls to try and protect those who aren’t involved in the violence, but it’s like gang warfare there. What is the answer for these schools? I don’t know. Build them a better facility, and watch it be destroyed? Will the better building help stop stabbings? We’ve tried over the years sending the kids out into affluent areas, but that was a complete failure.
And, things aren’t so rosy out in suburbia either. Drug problems are rampant. But we can’t search little Bobby’s locker now can we? After all… he has rights. And if you do, his parents will sue the school, and probably win. When little Peter tells the teacher to fu** off, and spits in his/her face, God help that teacher if they grabbed the little bastard by the hair and dragged him to the office, or slapped him back. They would also be sued, and likely fired.
The whole discussion of teacher pay, tenure, and any of its relevance on the process is a completely separate discussion, and, the numbers show it has little bearing on the outcome. Our kids “graduate” from high school, and can barely read and write. They go into the workplace, with no skills, and a complete inability to communicate effectively. Yes, you could blame it on the teachers I guess, but by the same token, we’re supposed to “stupify” the classroom now. All are to be harmoniously blended together, in one happy congenous group, regardless of intelligence, ability, or ambition. To segregate students into classes of their like peers “doesn’t make them feel good”, and “isn’t fair” to little Bobby, who in 7th grade has the skills of an average 4th grader. We should insist that he be allowed in the class that Sarah is in, even though she has an IQ of 145, and studies calculus for “entertainment” in her spare time. Because, if we put Sarah in an “advanced” class (like they used to do) that wouldn’t be fair to the other students. And, it certainly wouldn’t be appropriate to place Bobby into a more remedial group of like peers, where they could gear the class to the speed of its learners….. because that wouldn’t make Bobby “feel good about himself”. Yes- it is all about feeling good about yourself. This is a divergence from the original question, but is nonetheless a problem in how are classrooms are being structured. All are to be moved to the median.
So, we spend money on Bond issues to build new schools, and expand what we have. Hmmmm… in my own community, we are completing a 24.3 million dollar school expansion, all to meet new state education department mandates for reduced classroom size; expanded program offerings; and increased special education facilities. But, we’re doing this with something like 30% less student enrollment than when I attended the same school!!! Wassup’ wi-dat ??? So, let’s see- every criteria we can measure our schools by has deteriorated in the last 25 years, and there 30% more kids in the same facility as today, yet we performed better. So throwing money at it is the answer? Just doesn’t seem likely.
There certainly is great disparity geographically in the amount of money spent on education. But, it doesn’t always seem to correlate with performance. It is interesting to compare our public school performance to that of parochial and private schools. Much higher median test scores; almost non-existent truancy; miniscule violence; and a generally superior learning environment. And, it certainly isn’t a result of money spent on teachers or facilities. Many parochial schools get by on meager little budgets; teachers are paid much less than their public counterparts in the same locale; many of their facilities are antiques in comparison to their new, shining public counterparts; yet they continue to perform better.
Why? Because B.S. isn’t tolerated!! Ever! Spit in Sister Mary’s face, and she’ll backhand you one onto the floor, and drag you to the deacon’s office. Hit your science teacher, and he’ll probably lay you out flat. See the difference??
So, yes- much of this begins in the home. An attitude, and a way of life. And yes- accountability. Funny how so many things come back to that. These kids aren’t accountable for anything they do. It’s the school’s fault; the teacher’s fault; the building’s fault. But, it’s never their fault. They’re not taught that it is, and don’t believe differently. And, it’s not supposed to ever be the teacher’s fault either… they don’t want to accept blame for anything. So who is to blame? The money is to blame? Someone will surely tell me soon that I’m too selfish…. That’s the problem.
It is scary. Comments like the one about “never being asked about geography” are just silly. I’ve gone through more than my share of resumes from prospective employees over the years, and the lack of skills is obvious. Kids can’t write. “R U sur they don’t? Y- i m. “
Education is indeed one of, if not THE most important things in society. All kids need it… and in our country, all kids deserve it. Indeed- if they need more money- spend it! But we must start looking deeper into the root cause of the problems. It is not strictly dollars and cents. Again, per capita spending on education in this country has increased dramatically over the past 2 decades, yet performance has fallen. So much for the direct link to the dollars. There’s more to it than that. Let’s quit trying to all “feel good about ourselves”, and start to make hard decisions. Any of you ever gone to a school board meeting? Sent a letter to a teacher or administrator? If you have – good ! If you haven’t, then think about doing it. Complacency is what let this happen in the first place. More of it will only make it worse!
Out.
Observe everything...focus on nothing..
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Chris
- Posts: 13515
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- Location: Northern AB, CA, turn left Alaska, Turn right, Yukon Territoies
Dont thinkOriginally posted by davy19
Maybe they should think about birth control then if they wont take their job as being a parent serious. Have less kids if need be.
People need to be more responsible for their actions instead of laying their problems on others and hope it gets fixed.
Maybe if teachers and greedy school boards were not taking as big a bite at the TAX table then maybe working parents would not need three jobs to pay the bills.
You sound like an over paid teacher from your string of comments in this one.
Hummmm, average Joe 40 hours a week...12 months a year
I'll be real generous and say $25 G even though I know it aint so...
Average teacher. in Ontario, 7 months a year with no extra qualifications $ 53,399
And I was talking about working families, not welfare cases...
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Ghosthunter
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- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 12:00 pm
Originally posted by Chris
Dont think
Maybe if teachers and greedy school boards were not taking as big a bite at the TAX table then maybe working parents would not need three jobs to pay the bills.
You sound like an over paid teacher from your string of comments in this one.
Hummmm, average Joe 40 hours a week...12 months a year
I'll be real generous and say $25 G even though I know it aint so...
Average teacher. in Ontario, 7 months a year with no extra qualifications $ 53,399
And I was talking about working families, not welfare cases...
Blame that on the democrats,
but I am deinfitly not a teacher, cant you tell from my spelling
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Ghosthunter
- SG VIP
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interesting...
perhaps some of you dont realize the pressure teachers are under. Read the news! In nys teachers need a masters degree to even get a job! 6 years of school with a starting pay of LESS then 30 years of school. Teaching is NOT about the money.
Obviously you dont know anyone who is a teacher, nor anything about the lifestyle they lead. They dont really get the summer off. They have to have a detailed program ready for the school year. the summer is NOT spent having fun, a good part of it is continuing thie education and lesson planning. I'm not even gonig to mention that they almost ALWAYS bring work home with them.
If those parents NEED three jobs, they either didnt go to college or they are living beyond thier means. i work one job and my wife takes care of our children. We live in a very modest nieghborhood though. Sure, if otd worked we could afford better and two cars... but this is our choice.
What people have trouble understanding is that it's not the school's fault, it's our own. If you ever attending a school board meeting, you'd be SHOCKED at the absurbity of how crazy and dumb the parents are.
(dumb, although majority, or parents) "Johnny didnt get an A, it must be your fault and I'm going to SCREAM till he gets it."
It's so bad, teachers even must be careful to call on male and female students equally. etc, etc... etc, etc...
TEachers DO NOT make oodles of money. in our area, they start at less then 30k a year. That's pathetic for a job that requires 6 years of school, obsessive bosses, insane parents, and with kids allowed to call you a f*cking a**shole and then hit you... and you cant do sh*t in return.
god bless our teachers. loved every teacher I had and learned oodles from each one.
perhaps some of you dont realize the pressure teachers are under. Read the news! In nys teachers need a masters degree to even get a job! 6 years of school with a starting pay of LESS then 30 years of school. Teaching is NOT about the money.
Average teacher. in Ontario, 7 months a year with no extra qualifications $ 53,399
Obviously you dont know anyone who is a teacher, nor anything about the lifestyle they lead. They dont really get the summer off. They have to have a detailed program ready for the school year. the summer is NOT spent having fun, a good part of it is continuing thie education and lesson planning. I'm not even gonig to mention that they almost ALWAYS bring work home with them.
Maybe if teachers and greedy school boards were not taking as big a bite at the TAX table then maybe working parents would not need three jobs to pay the bills.
If those parents NEED three jobs, they either didnt go to college or they are living beyond thier means. i work one job and my wife takes care of our children. We live in a very modest nieghborhood though. Sure, if otd worked we could afford better and two cars... but this is our choice.
What people have trouble understanding is that it's not the school's fault, it's our own. If you ever attending a school board meeting, you'd be SHOCKED at the absurbity of how crazy and dumb the parents are.
(dumb, although majority, or parents) "Johnny didnt get an A, it must be your fault and I'm going to SCREAM till he gets it."
It's so bad, teachers even must be careful to call on male and female students equally. etc, etc... etc, etc...
TEachers DO NOT make oodles of money. in our area, they start at less then 30k a year. That's pathetic for a job that requires 6 years of school, obsessive bosses, insane parents, and with kids allowed to call you a f*cking a**shole and then hit you... and you cant do sh*t in return.
god bless our teachers. loved every teacher I had and learned oodles from each one.
Strap It On Whenever It Seems Appropriate
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Chris
- Posts: 13515
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- Location: Northern AB, CA, turn left Alaska, Turn right, Yukon Territoies
Originally posted by zooner
interesting...
perhaps some of you dont realize the pressure teachers are under. Read the news! In nys teachers need a masters degree to even get a job! 6 years of school with a starting pay of LESS then 30 years of school. Teaching is NOT about the money.
Actually I know quite a few teachers, most that I know have very large motorhomes or travel trailers and spend most of the summer travelling.
Teachers here will not coach sports, bitch if class size is over 19 students. Work to rule for years now.
The profession in canada is a JOKE.
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christine186
- Advanced Member
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- Location: Toronto
Chris is right, as far as Toronto goes. My son's in catholic school and I've seen it all. Zero tolerance my A** and as for teaching, the class sizes are just too big for any real understanding. I have been to every school meeting and the parents come into the room with blinders on. I'm pushing the school board for some changes and answers but it's a long hard battle and I'm on my own. This school has the funds but they are being applied in all the wrong places and admin. is the biggest problem with the school board for money going into pockets instead of schools.