Why Are We Letting Broadband ISPs Screw Us Over??

onnyxs · Post by **onnyxs** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 3:39 pm

I have had Cable Modem service for about (2)two months now and let me add that this is my second go around after having cancelled my services a year ago. I am having a serious issue with broadband. I have posted comments here and read all the help threads by Lobo,Mnosteele, and Phillip to name a few and all I hear is that we ALL should be happy to get like 90% of what our ISPs advertise. Why the hell should we??? I mean to give a few examples if we called Time Warner, Dish,DirectTV and wanted to purchase a package that consisted of 100 channels and once hooked up we can only view about 90% of the channels would we be happy with that?? If you picked up your telephone and wanted to make a call but hear an empty tone and the phone company said they only guarantee that your phone will be on 90% of the time, would we be happy with that?? What if you worked very hard for two weeks at whatever jobs that you may have and when payday rolled around you saw that you were missing 10% of the money that was owed to you and your boss told you that you should be happy to get 90% of your check, would you be happy with that?? I can continue to come up with many other crazy senarios but I am sure you all get my picture......But believe me when the due date on bills came and we only paid 90% of the bill you best believe that whatever service you had would be shut down.....that being the case that is all that i want..........100% SERVICE FOR 100% OF MY PAYMENTS!!!!!! All of this came about because recently I have had problems with my internet speed. For 2 months now I have gotten on average 1700-1900 kbps(My caps are 2000/384) but because of a failing modem my speeds dipped around half to 800 kbps. I got a new modem from Time Warner and after talking to tech lady we actually started an argument with me about how most people only get around 1000-1400 kbps and that i should have been happy to get what I was....HUH????? I should be happy? For 41.95 a month why should I be happy with only 85-90% of what they advertise!!!! Am I alone in the way I am feeling here? Isn't there something that we as consumers can do to hold an ISPs feet to the fire? Sign petitions, walk their corporate offices with picket signs, talk to our city council people, WHAT???? What I ask you can we do to get 100% SERVICE FOR 100% OF PAYMENT.........................what?????????????????????

mnosteele52 · Post by **mnosteele52** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 4:46 pm

I sympathize with your situation but you must understand how the internet works in order to understand why it's unlikely that you are only going to get 90% of your caps. There are so many factors involved that are beyond anyone's control. Also ISPs don't ever guarantee that you will get 100% of your "rated" speed, they say "speeds up to XXXXX" so you can't hold them to a certain speed if they aren't even promising it. This is from Cox Cable:

High-Speed Access Up To 100 Times Faster Than a 28.8 Modem. Download up to 100x faster than a 28.8 modem.

According to that it is UP TO 100 times faster than 28.8 which is actually 2880 not 3000 which I have said and I have seen articles quoting as their cap. That being accurate I get higher than 90% allot of times. They know they cannot guarantee you to get 100% of what might be possible, because they know there are too many factors involved. Read this article here and you will understand a bit more about what is involved with transfering data over the internet.

onnyxs · Post by **onnyxs** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 5:17 pm

I understand what you are saying and I too have seen the statements from RR and Earthlink and I know the statements of up xxxxxxxxx is meant to cover their own asses BUT we are not so primitive in our present state of technology where we can't get what we pay for. Like I said before my caps and I stress C-A-P-S are 2000/384. Why is it never the case when by some chance I am able to get beyond that 2000Mbps cap??? They have the technology and means to cut off at that cap so why can they make sure I can achieve that level of speed? I assure you that they can guarantee that you'll NEVER go above the cap so why not get me to that cap????? I mean what gives and why do we sit back and take this? I as well as everyone else agrees that 56k is crappy but does that mean that we grease it up and take the shaft up the butt only because we are so fearful of going back to 56k. There is something that can be done...I WON'T BELIEVE OTHERWISE......Even if it means that if a person pays for a 2000 Mbps max then they should set the cap threshold say at 2500 Mbps so then if I get 90% of that then I'd get 100% of what I pay for......I feel screwed when an ISP has the means to keep me capped at a certain level (and if you know anyone that consistently goes above their caps let me know) but can't guarantee that I achieve that same level on a consistant basis.......

TheAfu · Post by **TheAfu** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 8:49 pm

I do have a problem with this 90% thing. I heard some dsl providers offere guranteed performance contracts. To me this is cool but what happens if the user can't get what he was guranteed? It might not be the isp but the user pc's. On the other hand I hate getting the shaft from cable providers. Why is it ool on the east coast offers the most speed and is the cheapest? Yet all the other cable providers give us crap for speed and stability. Since the aol merger I have had to tweak my rr just to make my games playable. I could always switch but I've always been reminded by saying. A good one comes to mind like I rather have the devil I do know then the devil I don't.

Micro · Post by **Micro** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 10:40 pm

The ISP only says you can achieve "up to" because your individual PC is what limits your speed in 99.8% of the cases.
Tke ISP has no control over your PC (thank you for the privacy) or it's setup and tuning.
There are too many variables on your end that the ISP has no control over, for them to even think about guaranteeing any speed.
They only state available bandwidth, because that is the only factor they control.

The speed limit on many Interstates is 65-70mph now.
If your aging Dodge Dart won't make it beyond 60mph, is that the governments fault? Since it's your car, who's fault would it be.

RR has 2048/384 caps here and all 5 machines connected here acheive 246-250KB individually, and at most times of the day 258-260KB total when multiple machines are downloading.
And yes that does exceed the cap, but only by a little bit and only because of multiple simitaneous connections and the freeboard in RR cap control.

If you pay for a meal and only eat half of it, is it the restaurant's responsibility to force-feed you the rest?

onnyxs · Post by **onnyxs** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 4:10 am

If I were running some old 486 computer or an old pentium 233 I could understand but I have tried my connections of many high end PCs. I have about (6) computers here and the low end PC is an AMD 500mhz.....I have run tests with my Mac, in Linux, I have a 1 gig PC and just built me a new PC with that new AMD XP chip.....so I am not on the internet highway in a chevette or an old Dodge Dart......I am rolling down the internet highway in a Lamborghini or a mazaritti so my computers are fully capable of reaching the speeds that I am supposed to be getting. My question to you is do you work for the cable company because you are part of the problem in that you are so willing to make excuses for ISPs instead of making them give us 100% of what we as consumers deserve!!!!!!!!!!!!

mnosteele52 · Post by **mnosteele52** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:04 pm

I think the point everyone is missing here is........ it costs more money for the ISP for more bandwidth...... they aren't going to fork out anymore than they have to. Sometimes the bandwidth is limited to physical issues such as fiber optic cable, quality of servers and routers and such. It's very expensive to replace all the cable in use now with fiber optic, but it is being done, once it is done bandwidth will be almost limitless...... if the ISPs want to provide it at whatever cost. Something else I think you are forgetting is that with Cable internet you are basically on a LAN with everyone on your node and when more people are using their connections your bandwidth will suffer, but as I stated above.... no ISP actually guarantees how much bandwidth you will get.

TheAfu · Post by **TheAfu** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:13 pm

Thats juse the point steele how is optimum online is able to offer all that bandwidth and be cheaper then most cable providers?

mnosteele52 · Post by **mnosteele52** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:23 pm

Because they want to? They want to keep customers happy and must actually take pride in their service...... which is a very rare find these days.

TheAfu · Post by **TheAfu** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:28 pm

Shame no one else does!

onnyxs · Post by **onnyxs** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 2:00 pm

Here goes one of my screwed up analogies again.......I have a Mercury Mountaineer and it has 130 mph on the dash. Tell me how is it that if I have my vehicle fully optimized to drive at that speed that Mercury can say to me that there is no way they can guarantee that I can get to that speed BUT just by chance that I do they have the means to make sure that I won't exceed that 130 mph. Seems that there is more effort being emphasized in ther wrong areas. Most effort needs to be put in helping consumers maximize their connections and I mean on the ISPs end.

Micro · Post by **Micro** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 3:20 pm

Originally posted by onnyxs
My question to you is do you work for the cable company because you are part of the problem in that you are so willing to make excuses for ISPs instead of making them give us 100% of what we as consumers deserve!!!!!!!!!!!!

My answer would have to be -
No, I don't work for an ISP, but I do understand the difference betwen potential performance and guarnteed performance.
Your ISP DOES give you 100% of what you pay for - bandwidth.
The fact that you don't set up your PCs to use the maximum available bandwidth is not their fault.
You pay a monthly fee for having bandwidth available to you.
If you need someone to show you how to use it, there are local shops that will be happy to charge you a monthly fee to show you how to set up your PC to use your total available bandwidth.

ISPs provide bandwidth, not system tuning.
No conspiracy.
It's just that simple.

onnyxs · Post by **onnyxs** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 4:18 pm

Okay.......opinion well taken......What I want to know from you is this: What settings can I use that I haven't used so far that will help me tune my system to reach it's maximum broadband potential?? I have used tweaks from Lobo,The man of steele, and even a few of my own to no avail? What do you know about tweaking that these guys don't????

TheAfu · Post by **TheAfu** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 4:43 pm

It has nothing to do with the os and how you tweaked it rather hardware. Until I can get new 3com card I'm not gonna be able to get the max out of this system. Micro thanks for setting me clear on the upload issue. Other sites say its high but at the most I've gotten 350 usually what its stuck at.

onnyxs · Post by **onnyxs** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 5:05 pm

Since wehn did it make a difference what type of NIC card y ou have in your system? One thing I didn't mentionwas that the nic card they gave me went bad as well......but they issued me a sohoware and I installed a Linksys. I actually thought the two cards were along the same lines as far as quality....what is your opinion???

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 5:20 pm

There are so many factors involved that no ISP can gaurantee any rate.
All they can gaurantee is that the line from you to them has been tested to be capable of a predetermined rate.

molm · Post by **molm** » Fri May 02, 2003 6:37 am

I've just recently been contacted by RR saying that I have excedded the 15 up/down cap that they are going to impose next month.

Now they want to charge me more than $44 becasue I use it alot!

Enyone else experiencing this?

mnosteele52 · Post by **mnosteele52** » Fri May 02, 2003 9:20 am

molm all ISPs have a limit to how much you can download and upload per month, it's usually in the "fine print" of your agreement.

polishmafia4u · Post by **polishmafia4u** » Fri May 02, 2003 4:06 pm

heres my 2 cents. i believe that an ISP should moniter your speed every month(i dont know how but some how) then have some kind of computer program that averages your speeds and then your bill costs as much bandwidth as your using. i know this seems dumb and impossible but i think it is a good idea. ill shut up now

gerryg · Post by **gerryg** » Fri May 02, 2003 8:01 pm

Hey Onnyxs!!!!!!!!!!!1

I agree with you 100%. I'm currently with BellSouth and at the end of the Loop. I don't even get close to 90%. On the very best days I can get maybe 60% of the promised bandwidth. I have complained many times about this situation, but to no avail. I understand what Steele is saying, but that does not cover the deception that these people use to get you sign up. Maybe I should shoot someone and tell them that they are only 90% dead, so I'm not guilty of Murder! I put up with this because it is still much better than 56k and I get a 40% discount on the service because my wife retired from BellSouth in 1996 after 30 years of service. These people make Millions of Dollars because of people like us, but do you think they care? Take your car to the shop and tell the Mechanic that you only want 90% of the trouble straightened out and you will deal with the rest, or if He told that He only fixed 90% but wants all of the money how would you react? I totally agree with you and I don't really give a Continentinal what anyone else thinks about it. Been There, Done That. This is not a Good Thing and if We Keep Quiet it Will Only get Worse!!!!!!!! Thanks for letting Me get My 2 Cents worth in.

Melvin · Post by **Melvin** » Sun May 18, 2003 5:54 pm

I`ve been thinking about what has been written to this thread and for what it is worth I think that we all should first of all look at the operating system and ENSURE that the OS is running at optimum speeds. Having said that I mean that as far as Windows goes as an OS it is NOT optimilised for the Internet.
There are enough examples of users of this forum who do not hit their caps. I do. And because I do I believe that my providor is delivering the goods.
In other words I could never hit my caps without having to tinker under the hood. But having done that I got to where I was going at the advertised speed.
It can be done.
Having run a DL test from my providor I had a reply that I`d hit the max they provided.
I guess what I`m really saying is this....don`t knock the providor unless you can prove otherwise.
So I can`t complain can I ?
By the way I would like to say that now I do hit my caps all the fun of trying to achieve this goal has gone out of it.

j79zlr · Post by **j79zlr** » Sun May 18, 2003 6:25 pm

just a comment; Windows is Optimized for Dial-up and that is why it performs subpar on broadband without changing some of the Tcp parameters.

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