With a broadband connection?
Lookie here:
http://63.217.30.71/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83541
How Many People Agree That A Firewall Isn't Necessary.....
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ColdFusion
- Posts: 3542
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2000 12:00 am
- Location: Vancouver, BC
well ... heh as some said a decent virus scanner will do the trick ... well if the person can "hack" into your computer ... im sure they can delete the virus scanner and do whatever they want. And not all viruses are detected .. some people can write their own and ur virus scanner would never know that they are there. And then there are different windows exploits ... and not neccessarly everytime, if someone gets into your computer they are going to install a virus or trojan ... they could screw with your files ... or download personal files ... lots of stuff.
Better safe that sorry ...
Better safe that sorry ...
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JackHamma96
- Regular Member
- Posts: 202
- Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 5:10 pm
- Location: North Carolina
After reading this post I just dumped my firewall. I feel im pretty safe. I have the right sites blocked in Internet Explorer, and im using Norton AV 2002 and Swat it Trojan and Bot Remover, Ad-Aware, and Spybot...so im all set -
mnosteele52
- Posts: 11913
- Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2001 12:00 pm
- Location: Chesapeake, VA
Well if you drop your firewall can I have all your personal information like your SSN, credit card number or bank account info? What's that..... NO? Why not you are offering it to everyone else so why not me? 
Download a firewall and install it, it's insane these days not to have one with all the security risks there are... and there are many free ones.
Download a firewall and install it, it's insane these days not to have one with all the security risks there are... and there are many free ones.
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JackHamma96
- Regular Member
- Posts: 202
- Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 5:10 pm
- Location: North Carolina
With this freaky DSL Modem I have a firewall doesnt improve my staus. Lets say at grc.com without a firewall my results will be closed, and 2 ports open, with a firewall it will still be closed and those same 2 ports still open. And it has something to do with my DSL Modem. When I find out how to fix that problem then I will get a firewall back .
And I dont pay bills and stuff online anyway
.And I dont pay bills and stuff online anyway
The CNNSI Guy: "Go Do that VooDoo that U do so well"
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mnosteele52
- Posts: 11913
- Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2001 12:00 pm
- Location: Chesapeake, VA
I was curious to see how many didn't think one was necessary.
The way I see it, (Not knocking Microsoft) the operating system (MS), various programs, virus, trojan, and outright malicious code, all give me more then enough reason to make it as hard as possible for someone wanting unauthorized access. I realize that a firewall isn't going to stop everyone, but it adds a little insurance.
We all take a certain amount of risk just being connected to the net. Why make it easy for compromise?
The way I see it, (Not knocking Microsoft) the operating system (MS), various programs, virus, trojan, and outright malicious code, all give me more then enough reason to make it as hard as possible for someone wanting unauthorized access. I realize that a firewall isn't going to stop everyone, but it adds a little insurance.
We all take a certain amount of risk just being connected to the net. Why make it easy for compromise?
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Robot Army
- Member
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2002 2:35 pm
- Location: Maryland, USA
It's just silly if you have a M$ box connected directly to the internet (esp. w/ always-on connection), not to have a firewall installed. Of course it's also silly to download and install spyware and open unsolicited or strange emails with or without attachments, but lots of people do it anyway....
When a problem comes along...You must whip it.....When something's going wrong...You must whip it....Whip it good...
O.02c worth
It's my understanding that with a broadband connection through a router with a built in firewall that is configured correctly, the only traffic seen by any software firewall will be outgoing.
Providing you don't care what programs do when they require and receive unlimited access to the internet from your system then fine, run without a software firewall.
If you are interested in what programs are accessing the internet from your system and you don't wish this to happen then use a firewall.
The choice is an individual one, but one that should be considered carefully and not after reading a few posts in a thread asking a question such as the one in this thread.
A bit of reading:
http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc ... cf4ch2.htm
http://www.interhack.net/pubs/fwfaq/
http://www.robertgraham.com/pubs/firewall-seen.html
JMHO.
Croc.
It's my understanding that with a broadband connection through a router with a built in firewall that is configured correctly, the only traffic seen by any software firewall will be outgoing.
Providing you don't care what programs do when they require and receive unlimited access to the internet from your system then fine, run without a software firewall.
If you are interested in what programs are accessing the internet from your system and you don't wish this to happen then use a firewall.
The choice is an individual one, but one that should be considered carefully and not after reading a few posts in a thread asking a question such as the one in this thread.
A bit of reading:
http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc ... cf4ch2.htm
http://www.interhack.net/pubs/fwfaq/
http://www.robertgraham.com/pubs/firewall-seen.html
JMHO.
Croc.
Croc.
Remember: Wherever you go in life, you take yourself with you.It will be long, it will be hard and there will be no withdrawal.
Winston Churchill
When I first got cable, a few yrs ago, I did not use a firewall AND I passed all of the security scans fom GRC and others. The reason I passed is because I was not on a network, therefore i did not have the Client for MS Networks installed and I did not have File and Print Sharing installed. Therefore I was never subject to NetBios attacks.
I eventually began using BID just so I could see who was trying to exploit my system and what exploits they were l;ooking for. I did this for various reasons, to learn about such potential exploits and to sometimes scan 'em back to see what vulnerabilities they had and to test my firewall's strength.
When I networked my house w/ 5 separate computers using a router I had to have the MS Client installed, just top be able to see theother computers on the network. I use TCP for internet only and use NetBeui for File and Print Sharing and NetBeui is NOT bound to anything else. Therefore I am still not vulnerable to NetBios attacks.
Do I need the software firewall now? Yes, because I have 3 kids who download all sorts of stuff using P2P apps. They are pretty wisea nd cautios, but as kids, are more easily fooled than I by disguised/dangerous files. And IF they fail to update their AV, they will get no warnings when they download a newer trojan or virus. (just two days ago I ended up having to reformat and reinstall a system because of the YahaF virus that my daughter thought was a screensaver, the system needed a cleanup anyway)
Even with a router running NAT, a system IS subject to exploits and attack. NAT does NOT stop all inbound traffic and there are methods of sending a packet that will pass through NAT and harm a system. There are also methods of bypassing a software firewall easily. (Zone Alarm is quite easy to get around.)
Is a software firewall necessary?
With a properly configured SINGLE computer, then NO, it is a waste of time and resources IF that computer has a good up-to-date AV app.
If a computer is networked to other systems then the software firewall is necessary IF File and Print Sharing is enabled and the network is NOT configured properly.
If a network is using a router with NAT, a software firewall is NOT necessary UNLESS a system on the network is put in the DMZ occasionally such as when gaming across networks, then that "opened up" system better have some method of filtering unwanted inbound traffic.
Also, for the novice user, which means about 80-90% of ALL internet users, a software firewall is a must. (you must realize that those who post in this board are the approx 10% smartest internet users)
I eventually began using BID just so I could see who was trying to exploit my system and what exploits they were l;ooking for. I did this for various reasons, to learn about such potential exploits and to sometimes scan 'em back to see what vulnerabilities they had and to test my firewall's strength.
When I networked my house w/ 5 separate computers using a router I had to have the MS Client installed, just top be able to see theother computers on the network. I use TCP for internet only and use NetBeui for File and Print Sharing and NetBeui is NOT bound to anything else. Therefore I am still not vulnerable to NetBios attacks.
Do I need the software firewall now? Yes, because I have 3 kids who download all sorts of stuff using P2P apps. They are pretty wisea nd cautios, but as kids, are more easily fooled than I by disguised/dangerous files. And IF they fail to update their AV, they will get no warnings when they download a newer trojan or virus. (just two days ago I ended up having to reformat and reinstall a system because of the YahaF virus that my daughter thought was a screensaver, the system needed a cleanup anyway)
Even with a router running NAT, a system IS subject to exploits and attack. NAT does NOT stop all inbound traffic and there are methods of sending a packet that will pass through NAT and harm a system. There are also methods of bypassing a software firewall easily. (Zone Alarm is quite easy to get around.)
Is a software firewall necessary?
With a properly configured SINGLE computer, then NO, it is a waste of time and resources IF that computer has a good up-to-date AV app.
If a computer is networked to other systems then the software firewall is necessary IF File and Print Sharing is enabled and the network is NOT configured properly.
If a network is using a router with NAT, a software firewall is NOT necessary UNLESS a system on the network is put in the DMZ occasionally such as when gaming across networks, then that "opened up" system better have some method of filtering unwanted inbound traffic.
Also, for the novice user, which means about 80-90% of ALL internet users, a software firewall is a must. (you must realize that those who post in this board are the approx 10% smartest internet users)
No one has any right to force data on you
and command you to believe it or else.
If it is not true for you, it isn't true.
LRH
and command you to believe it or else.
If it is not true for you, it isn't true.
LRH
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JackHamma96
- Regular Member
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- Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 5:10 pm
- Location: North Carolina
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maximus8o8
- New Member
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 3:14 pm
Everyone who is fed up with ZA...Please try Outpost. It is so much more simple..trouble free..and easy to use this firewall.
http://www.agnitum.com/download/
This firewall makes it all worth it ...IMHO.
Did i mention you get better protection with this firewall also.
http://www.agnitum.com/download/
This firewall makes it all worth it ...IMHO.
Did i mention you get better protection with this firewall also.
Tony I'm glad you typed all that out, cause I'm getting too lazy for it
I don't use a firewall anymore myself, and have basically the same setup as you do.
A slight error in your post may confuse the other 90%.
TCP is not bound to anything else
I don't use a firewall anymore myself, and have basically the same setup as you do.
A slight error in your post may confuse the other 90%.
The bolded type should readOriginally posted by TonyT
I use TCP for internet only and use NetBeui for File and Print Sharing and NetBeui is NOT bound to anything else. Therefore I am still not vulnerable to NetBios attacks.
TCP is not bound to anything else
If your a computer literate home user with broadband and understand the basics of networking, I would say no you need no firewall.
I run an ssh server on my RedHat system that then allows connection to other systems/services on my LAN, so to protect these services from availability to the outside I run a firewall/router combination to disallow connections out from specific systems.
So I guess I would say that if you are running any type of service to the outside and want proper traffic control then yes a firewall is necessary. If you just plan on browsing/downloading/p2p then make sure your virus scanner is up2date.
regards,
greEd
I run an ssh server on my RedHat system that then allows connection to other systems/services on my LAN, so to protect these services from availability to the outside I run a firewall/router combination to disallow connections out from specific systems.
So I guess I would say that if you are running any type of service to the outside and want proper traffic control then yes a firewall is necessary. If you just plan on browsing/downloading/p2p then make sure your virus scanner is up2date.
regards,
greEd
http://www.computerglitch.net"I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional...) for AT clones... It's not portable and it probably [won't ever] support anything other than AT hard disks, as thats all I have :-(." --Posted on Usenet August 1991 by Linus Trovalds
curiosity builds security | dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=100
EOF
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Boston_Bob
- Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2001 2:41 pm
- Location: Boston MA
You dont HAVE to run a firewall.
However Ive seen far too many people who think they know how to set up their machine get hacked cuz they didnt. Now maybe this is because I work in a university environment, where things tend to be a little bit worse as far as computer tomfoolery.
A trojan doesnt have to be a bad program. Ive seen legit programs take over peoples machines (these will never be caught by Ad-Bot, Trojan-jammer, my-computers-completely-safe-bot-proggie...) Once there I can disable your antivirus, replace your super secret trojan scanner with a program that takes up memory and calculates the distance to the moon in rods and you will never know. Now I can do what I want. Isnt that the biggest insult of getting broken into? the fact that you have no control over a machine that you own?
Replace this scenario with one where you have a firewall and my job becomes alot harder.
Lets say a new vulnerability comes out for say XP. It affects some service that runs by default. With a firewall you most likely will never be vulnerable because you can choose to block it if you never use it. If you dont have the firewall, you have to be sitting in front of your computer the day the vulnerability is released and install the patch (which may or may not be ready yet) in order to be safe. With the firewall at least you're safe until the patch is released.
You might think that no-one is going to hack my machine with a new vulnerability the day it comes out. I laugh at you. All someone has to do is go through the logs their prevous scans have completed and find out which boxes may be effected by sed exploit. and yes this is done. Now had you had a firewall when they first did scans of your netblock you would most likely never show up as being there in the first place. So you would not be a target.
Sorry fot the long post, Ive said enough
However Ive seen far too many people who think they know how to set up their machine get hacked cuz they didnt. Now maybe this is because I work in a university environment, where things tend to be a little bit worse as far as computer tomfoolery.
A trojan doesnt have to be a bad program. Ive seen legit programs take over peoples machines (these will never be caught by Ad-Bot, Trojan-jammer, my-computers-completely-safe-bot-proggie...) Once there I can disable your antivirus, replace your super secret trojan scanner with a program that takes up memory and calculates the distance to the moon in rods and you will never know. Now I can do what I want. Isnt that the biggest insult of getting broken into? the fact that you have no control over a machine that you own?
Replace this scenario with one where you have a firewall and my job becomes alot harder.
Lets say a new vulnerability comes out for say XP. It affects some service that runs by default. With a firewall you most likely will never be vulnerable because you can choose to block it if you never use it. If you dont have the firewall, you have to be sitting in front of your computer the day the vulnerability is released and install the patch (which may or may not be ready yet) in order to be safe. With the firewall at least you're safe until the patch is released.
You might think that no-one is going to hack my machine with a new vulnerability the day it comes out. I laugh at you. All someone has to do is go through the logs their prevous scans have completed and find out which boxes may be effected by sed exploit. and yes this is done. Now had you had a firewall when they first did scans of your netblock you would most likely never show up as being there in the first place. So you would not be a target.
Sorry fot the long post, Ive said enough
me fail english?....that's unpossible!
Put simply, if you don't know for sure, get a firewall.
When I leave my PC I release my IP.
When I'm at my PC I watch everything that moves or flashes.
Like Bob is basically saying, a program could show you the President kissing babies, while it does whatever the programmer coded it to do in the background.
When I leave my PC I release my IP.
When I'm at my PC I watch everything that moves or flashes.
Like Bob is basically saying, a program could show you the President kissing babies, while it does whatever the programmer coded it to do in the background.