Some one DID it --Read this

SpyCatcher · Post by **SpyCatcher** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:43 pm

http://online.securityfocus.com/archive/82/261454

http://lists.wi2600.org/pipermail/2600/ ... 08668.html

Ashdaw · Post by **Ashdaw** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 6:24 pm

Me thinks this thread will get removed mate

ace · Post by **ace** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 6:26 pm

me 2

master7 · Post by **master7** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 6:34 pm

Me Three :2cool:

burple · Post by **burple** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 6:46 pm

Me....what's after 3.

BaLa · Post by **BaLa** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 7:02 pm

sweeeeet
didn't get a chance to read it yet, as I'm at school right now though I saved the URL's

unfortunately this thread will get either edited or deleted..

Cable_Dood · Post by **Cable_Dood** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 7:26 pm

IBTL!!!!

BTW...this is a known vulnerability, and while some of the info in BOTH articles is boolshhh.....it could put you on the right track.

This is one breach of AUP that WILL be enforced, if found.

broadband brown · Post by **broadband brown** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 8:10 pm

I would be plenty POed if my service started to suck cause someone on my node was stealing all the bandwidth.. as far as I'm concerned this is a bad thing.

Interesting but bad!

SpyCatcher · Post by **SpyCatcher** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 8:48 pm

Not sure if it is stealing bandwidth due the fact that every user is capable of 30 mbs up & down. Problem is isp providers don't make it available. Is it right to do what this person did? I'm not sitting on a jury right now with actually facts presented to me that would enable me to make a decision. "So why are you"?

Let me present this to you:

Is it stealing bandwidth to tweak your settings to get more bandwidth than your neighbor simpley becuase they don't know where to get tweaks or how to apply tweaks?

Is it stealing to overclock your PC to 3.8 mhz? After all you only bought 1.8 mhz?

Is it stealing bandwidth if you tweak the isp companies "modem"?

Is it still stealing;

If you tweak your own modem that you purchased?

There are arguments for both sides, you have free will to choose. In business or anything else in life that worships money people will do things that they normally would not do.

Kip Patterson · Post by **Kip Patterson** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 9:04 pm

At this point I see no reason to remove the thread. This approach to uncapping has gotten enough publicity that anything we do is not going to stop it.

Seems like a couple of modem manufacturers have some explaining to do. DOCSIS modems MUST NOT accept configuration files from the LAN interface.

Kip

Cable_Dood · Post by **Cable_Dood** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 9:20 pm

I just did mine.

3.3mbps down 1.8mbps up.

Every "DOCSIS certified" modem can be hacked at this point. I didn't believe it a little while back, but it's not too hard to do.

BaLa · Post by **BaLa** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 10:07 pm

Originally posted by Cable_Dood
I just did mine.

3.3mbps down 1.8mbps up.

Every "DOCSIS certified" modem can be hacked at this point. I didn't believe it a little while back, but it's not too hard to do.

what modem you got?

Gaming-Module · Post by **Gaming-Module** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 10:29 pm

Will the 3100 surfboard modem work with this?

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 10:38 pm

Just a warning...our guys can identify the people that are doing this and ARE going after them...if you want to play around with it, just be aware of the consequences..

Immortal · Post by **Immortal** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 10:46 pm

Interesting..... well that's good to know..

njeddiek · Post by **njeddiek** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 10:53 pm

A friend of mine is a engineer for a university and demonstrated how to modify the DOCSIS config file to me about 6 months ago. This is new news for the General public but the info has been around for awhile. When I found out I was amazed how easy it was to do. I consider uncapping stealing so I was not about to run off and start posting how to steal bandwith. If cable providers properly set up their networks(Fully DOCSIS compliant) it would be impossible to do.

SpyCatcher · Post by **SpyCatcher** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 11:16 pm

Indy... no offense but tech support is stating they are aware of this and are looking for it....Don't sweat the small stuff that really does not make any difference to anyone on the network. Remember the system is set up to handle 30 mbs per household up & down.

I would like to recommend high speed companies hired better qualified people.
Offer better customer support (I can live with not getting my way all the time), then I can overlook the lack of understanding of their employment.
Open up the service to all competitors which would make it price competitive.

These are just a few to start with... and by the way "if you do catch someone will it pay you personally any more"? Bet it won't ... so stop feeling like your saving the company... the company will not think twice about releasing you or saying no to year end bonus (unless your a corporate exective).

Best of luck to you....

PS: If you make a long distance phone call over the internet is that stealing from the phone company?

therealcableguy · Post by **therealcableguy** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 11:50 pm

Originally posted by Indy
Just a warning...our guys can identify the people that are doing this and ARE going after them...if you want to play around with it, just be aware of the consequences..

Same here Indy! Uh Spycatcher, "if you do catch someone will it pay you any more"? You can be assured that we will not be getting any more money from someone in my market that we catch.I'm coming to pick up their/my modem personally.

Mike_W · Post by **Mike_W** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 11:53 pm

Originally posted by Cable_Dood
I just did mine.

3.3mbps down 1.8mbps up.

Every "DOCSIS certified" modem can be hacked at this point. I didn't believe it a little while back, but it's not too hard to do.

Don't you work for Comcast? If so, how can you get away with something ALL of us can't get away with?

glc1 · Post by **glc1** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:15 am

Originally posted by Mike_W

Don't you work for Comcast? If so, how can you get away with something ALL of us can't get away with?

I think you answered your own question.

Kip Patterson · Post by **Kip Patterson** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 6:57 am

For Spycatcher:

FTI, DOCSIS does not provide 30mbits per household up and down. It provides either 27 or 38 mbits down and up to 10 mbits up in total for all users on a single pair of channels. Uncapping such as this on a large scale will bring cable systems to their knees quickly.

The idea that uncapping is OK, that it is fair to describe cable companies and their people in terms such as ignorance, is not acceptable here, period.

This thread has remained open thus far because posters haven't abused the topic. Please help to keep it that way.

Kip

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 8:00 am

Originally posted by SpyCatcher
Indy... no offense but tech support is stating they are aware of this and are looking for it....Don't sweat the small stuff that really does not make any difference to anyone on the network. Remember the system is set up to handle 30 mbs per household up & down.

If you think that people uncapping modems doesn't affect the network, then you really don't know what you're talking about...

I would like to recommend high speed companies hired better qualified people.
Offer better customer support (I can live with not getting my way all the time), then I can overlook the ingorance.

You know nothing about me or my qualifications, so I'd keep my mouth shut on that one...

Open up the service to all competitors which would make it price competitive.

http://news.com.com/2100-1033-845200.html

These are just a few to start with... and by the way "if you do catch someone will it pay you personally any more"? Bet it won't ... so stop feeling like your saving the company... the company will not think twice about releasing you or saying no to year end bonus (unless your a corporate exective).

Are you done feeling morally superior yet?

PS:therealcableguy...you might to check to see if your fittings are to tight.... That's why your a installer and not a exective....
Best of luck to you....

I guess not...

aldamon · Post by **aldamon** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 8:21 am

I have been a TWC RR customer in North Caroline since October 2000 and, with the exception of a one-month period in 2000, I've had nothing but excellent speeds and great support. Because of this, I wouldn't even consider attempting this hack because it may threaten my great service (~250KBps down / 48KBps up).

But for the other companies, the ones that, you know, are "overselling" their networks or the ones where people are getting 20 - 50 KBps speeds on CABLE (50 times faster than dial up huh?), you should be ashamed and embarrassed. YOU created demand for this hack by starving your customer base of good service and I hope some people use it to escape the broadband farce you created.

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 8:24 am

Originally posted by aldamon
I have been a TWC RR customer in North Caroline since October 2000 and, with the exception of a one-month period in 2000, I've had nothing but excellent speeds and great support. Because of this, I wouldn't even consider attempting this hack because it may threaten my great service (~250KBps down / 48KBps up).

But for the other companies, the ones that, you know, are "overselling" their networks or the ones where people are getting 20 - 50 KBps speeds on CABLE (50 times faster than dial up huh?), you should be ashamed and embarrassed. YOU created demand for this hack by starving your customer base of good service and I hope some people use it to escape the broadband farce you created.

So I guess you're ok with it then if you're neighbors uncap their modem and start affecting your bandwidth?

This is not restricted to one company or another...

Cable_Dood · Post by **Cable_Dood** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 9:59 am

<<If cable providers properly set up their networks(Fully DOCSIS compliant) it would be impossible to do.>>

Uhh....wrong.

And the 30MBps up/down thing is boolshiznit, spyboy.

Docsis 1.0, 1.1 only allow for a maximum of 10Mbps instantaneous upstream bandwidth shared amongst all the subs on a given router US port.

Docsis 2.0 allows for up to 30Mbps up, but it uses a bigger QAM and is much more suceptible to noise in the plant. So far, real-world testing has shown only modest gains in US performance, not to mention that it requires a CMTS upgrade.

As far as me working for the cable company and doing this.....as an engineer I am given certain liberties to test things. When I hear about crap like this, I want to see it for myself. If I hacked it and started running a server or left it that way then it would be considered theft of service and I would be treated just like anyone else, except I'd also be jobless.

SpyCatcher · Post by **SpyCatcher** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:26 am

Kip: First let offer that I only stated actually facts regarding high speed customer support... while I understand there are in some cases very qualified people who enjoy their job and are good at, the statement in my humble opinion is for the remaining....it's relates it to the 80 / 20 rule. I will respect your wishes.

Indy: You need to not take things in life so serious, nothing in that statement you highlight was directly pointed at you, it is and was a general statment and a very accurate statement.

As for morally superior: Not not sure you fully understand what it was I was trying to convey....maybe I don't either...never the less the statement was not directed at you.... but to "therealcableguy" who indicated he can not wait to go out and pick up "theirs/his" modem personally. This is not a personally attack I would just hope he would think outside the box.

In reviewing my previous post's "I do not believe I ever endorsed or stated I thought uncapping was okay" (Refere to post #2) while it does/does not suprise me no one engaged the questions I proposed specifically regarding "tweaks" or "their modem".

Will I attempt to uncap my modem? No...doing or engaging in this type of arena is just not me. But reading how to is very educational.

Just a note: When people/customers criticize the employment field I'm in, I say to myself "I'm sure there is some truth to their statement", there usually is. When this occurs I instruct our people to make the customer who is on the phone or inperson "to feel like they are the most important person in the world at that moment". The customer does not always get their way, but in the end they feel like they were heard...that's all most people want. In some cases we fix their problem.

PS: Want to read statements where anything go's regarding this topic? http://www.neowin.net

aldamon · Post by **aldamon** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:31 am

Originally posted by Indy

So I guess you're ok with it then if you're neighbors uncap their modem and start affecting your bandwidth?

This is not restricted to one company or another...

So I guess you can't read? Of course I'd be mad because, like I said, I don't feel it's necessary in our area. TWC has really stepped up to the plate and I get what I pay for. Besides, everyone I know in my area RENTS their modem. If the hardware causes this, then the solution is obvious: recall the modems. We don't own them!

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:54 am

Aldamon, you've completely missed the point of my post. If the hack is available, it doesn't matter if you're renting or owning your modem...there are going to be people regardless of how good the speeds are that want more and they are going to try it. How would you feel if people in your neighborhood started doing this hack and disrupting your bandwidth?

Originally posted by aldamon
YOU created demand for this hack by starving your customer base of good service and I hope some people use it to escape the broadband farce you created.

So you do condone the use of this hack...hmm...and I thought I couldn't read

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Fri Mar 15, 2002 11:15 am

What would you guys perfer?

DataPac or Dvacs?

The weather outside is frightful.....

therealcableguy · Post by **therealcableguy** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 11:25 am

PS:therealcableguy...you might to check to see if your fittings are to tight.... That's why your a installer and not a exective.... [/B][/QUOTE]

I am not sure why you have to get personal but I am a supervisor with 13 years of CATV experience including everything from the back of the television to the headend. Anytime you feel like matching troubleshooting skills let me know.Fittings too tight?What is that about?

Kip Patterson · Post by **Kip Patterson** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 11:42 am

Spycatcher:

Please check your email before posting further here.

Kip

Mike_W · Post by **Mike_W** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 11:43 am

Originally posted by Cable_Dood
<<If cable providers properly set up their networks(Fully DOCSIS compliant) it would be impossible to do.>>

As far as me working for the cable company and doing this.....as an engineer I am given certain liberties to test things. When I hear about crap like this, I want to see it for myself. If I hacked it and started running a server or left it that way then it would be considered theft of service and I would be treated just like anyone else, except I'd also be jobless.

That was the answer I was looking for Cable_Dood. I did not mean to imply you were stealing (actually I was), but I did not mean it in a personal way. I meant that if you are an employee of Comcast, a major player now in broadband, I thought it wasn't very cool for you to do exactly what me, we, us, the PAYING customers are not allowed to do. Since you are an engineer, and you did it for test purposes, I hope this is possibly leading to strict compliance by the paying customers as far as bandwidth theft. I for one will NOT steal bandwidth, and I damn well do not want some other punk out there to limit mine or make my costs skyrocket because he is a thief.

Mike_W · Post by **Mike_W** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:06 pm

And, on another note, whether or not Comcast's support people are competent or not, I have no comment. I think there are those that are very competent and some who may not be, but, I chalk that up to them being possibly new to the job. Everyone has to start somewhere and Help desk personnel to cable installers to level two techs and up have had to start somewhere.
I for one have had almost no problems since the transition, and so far I've not had to wait more than 5 or ten minutes for a support tech on the phone when I did have trouble. I applaud Comcast for a job ( a huge feat to undertake) well done. I do wish I had the same bandwidth I had with @Home, but, I don't and I'm not gonna whine and bitch and look for ways to steal it. Since that is ILLEGAL, I would even prefer these UNCAPPING posts would just go away. I feel it only causes peoples minds to wonder....and wondering often leads to tinkering....and tinkering could lead to....

......
...... dancing!

therealcableguy · Post by **therealcableguy** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:30 pm

Great post Mike_W! We all started somewhere and it takes time to learn it all. Cable can get deep enough by itself depending on how far upstream the problem is.Now throw network engineering into the mix.I would not trade it for anything though.I have had the chance to learn some great things along the way,alot of it from fellow speedguiders.Thanks!

Christopher561 · Post by **Christopher561** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 3:33 pm

how can you steal bandwith?

glc1 · Post by **glc1** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 3:42 pm

Originally posted by Christopher561
how can you steal bandwith?

Illegally gaining acces to bandwidth that wasn't meant for you (and is used by others) in the first place. Did you read the two articles?

aldamon · Post by **aldamon** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 3:59 pm

Originally posted by Indy
Aldamon, you've completely missed the point of my post. If the hack is available, it doesn't matter if you're renting or owning your modem...there are going to be people regardless of how good the speeds are that want more and they are going to try it. How would you feel if people in your neighborhood started doing this hack and disrupting your bandwidth?

So you do condone the use of this hack...hmm...and I thought I couldn't read

Indy: "So I guess you're ok with it then if you're neighbors uncap their modem and start affecting your bandwidth?"

aldamon response: "Of course I'd be mad because, like I said, I don't feel it's necessary in our area."

Indy next post: How would you feel if people in your neighborhood started doing this hack and disrupting your bandwidth?

No you obviously can't read! I answered your question the first time!

Yes, like I said, I emphathize with the people using this hack to genuinely address service issues. Yet, I am also scared that my own service will suffer. Why are we arguing about this anyway? The cable companies have put us in the position, not the customers! I expect a fix for the bandwidth starved people who NEED this hack, and protection for my market, which is fine. Surely the industry can make this happen!

glc1 · Post by **glc1** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:13 pm

Originally posted by aldamon
Yes, like I said, I emphathize with the people using this hack to genuinely address service issues. Yet, I am also scared that my own service will suffer. Why are we arguing about this anyway? The cable companies have put us in the position, not the customers! I expect a fix for the bandwidth starved people who NEED this hack, and protection for my market, which is fine. Surely the industry can make this happen!

What kind of crippled reasoning is that?

You know, two wrongs doesn't right any situation. It's a luxury service, not your god given right. If it's less than desirable, state your case and contact the apporpriate organizations and look for service elsewhere.

I've been through the ISP mill (PacBell, Orconet, AT&T, Earthlink, AT&T again, MegaPath and now maybe another change (though not b/c of service issues or questionable business practices)). All these companies basically defrauded me, but I never defrauded them.

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 7:35 pm

Originally posted by aldamon
Why are we arguing about this anyway? The cable companies have put us in the position, not the customers! I expect a fix for the bandwidth starved people who NEED this hack, and protection for my market, which is fine. Surely the industry can make this happen!

I agree, we don't need to argue about this...so I'll just say that the industry is very aware of the hack and they are working on the fix for both the bandwidth issues and casting off the people who abuse the system...

njeddiek · Post by **njeddiek** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 7:46 pm

If you are unhappy with your ISP then look for another and stop giving them your business. There will always be a few people that try to justify cheating, stealing and defrauding because they feel they've been wronged. This uncapping business is just plain stupid.