Controversial Topic: Digital Angel Child Tracking Device

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 10:18 am

http://www.digitalangel.net/da/index.asp

http://daniellemissing.tripod.com/

Ok...so here it is. Do you think that such a device is constitutional and ethical?

Do you think that this device could have prevented this from happening?

Last and final question...Digital Angel does have the technology to provide an implant for humans...it can be used to track and even monitor vital signs.

Would you implant this device into your child to aid in recovery if your child were ever to become lost or kidnapped?

As a father to be....no price is too much to pay for the safety of my child.

Any thoughts?

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 10:34 am

Blah, I'm against it 100%. Sure, it might be helpful to those 1% of 1% who's children are kidnapped, but I certainly wouldn't allow any kind of "implant" into myself or my kids/family that would allow TRACKING by any government or corporation.

Besides, it took me 3 years of digging with my fingers to rip that CIA bug out of my arm.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 10:38 am

It would help with the stress of raising young kids, today. Somewhat of a security blanket so to speak.

And as teenager's it would be invaluable.

"Dad, can I go bowling and stay at Mindy's tonight?"

Sure honey....hehehehehe

Loribelle · Post by **Loribelle** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:38 am

you have GOT to be kidding! our forefathers (UNITED STATES OF AMERICA) must be rolling in their graves! have you no respect for freedom of movement? i don't care how it is packaged for sale:

safety?? at the price of freedom?? wow... THINK about this!

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:40 am

I. Think. Not.

As a kid, I can tell you two things.

1.) This is a major, full-blown, bells and whistles, red-alert invasion of privacy. "Here son, put this device in yourself so that we can watch everything you do". Yeeeah, that's gonna go over real f-ng well. Another thing, I am not letting the government anywhere near me with their half-assed devices that -will- cause harm to me. No freakin' way.

2.) I wouldn't want this forced into me. That's also a violation of Substantave Due Process (

), just as invoulntary /anything/. I don't care what claim you try to throw up, it's unethical and unconstutional. Sorry.

So, I think we'll give this a 'no'.

eddiec · Post by **eddiec** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:44 am

First, yes to constitutional and ethical. It's worn by choice of user.
Second, it couldn't have prevented a missing person, but may aid in tracking/locating.
Third, I believe the site says no skin broken, worn as a wristwatch. So bad guys would just remove it and possibly send it in the wrong direction to mislead police. But anything that promotes peace of mind could be considered good. But if implant technology were to develop, no, I wouldn't. Consider the medical consequenses of "safe" breast implants that go wrong. No thank you.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:47 am

It's just one step closer to the apocalypse...

SeedOfChaos · Post by **SeedOfChaos** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:02 pm

Evan, you gotta be s***ting me...

The ONLY crime this thing would probably prevent is kidnapping when the criminals are hoping for a ransom, maybe they'll then mutilate the kids to get the implant out. Good idea. Otherwise, people might be just a little bit more inclined to kill the kids faster and dump them somewhere. Look at how criminals behave. Take the example of copyright protection. If someone invents a new copy protection, there's gonna be a crack for it at most a month later, usually 0-1 days. Sometimes cracks are released before the actual product is. Determined criminals ALWAYS find a way, you know how creative human minds can be.

I'll give you another example: car safety. You know, I work for Mercedes, and I had a nice chat with a person from a large Mercedes dealer in Berlin, work related, but I also asked her about one of Mercedes' anti-theft systems. By now, Mercedes' are so secure, you cannot drive it without the key, period. There is no known cause of a stolen car equipped with this system. Well, lemme specify that. None of those cars were stolen without a key. So what do the criminal do? Steal the key. Often that includes violent robbery, burglary, even murder.

What I'm trying to tell you is the following:
That company is offering you the ILLUSION of safety with a hefty price tag. Do you think criminals would not know such systems exist? They'll find a way around it: remove the device, block the signal with a jammer, put the person into a lead-cage so the signal is blocked, you name it, and I'll guarantee you it'll be done. You can't make your life 100% safe. IMO this device does little to protect you or your loved ones (a bullet will kill you just as easily with or without such a system). But instead, you pay a lot of money, and even more importantly, you are selling your privacy. Let these systems advance another year or two, and AT LEAST the people working for that company can know when you're taking a piss if they want to.

Evan, I dunno, but I find this in a very strong contrast to you usual view on such things, regarding privacy, conspiracy, etc. I was quite surprised to read your original post here. Maybe you should rethink this thing for a sec? Paft and others also make very good points here.

Cheers,
Ronald

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:01 pm

As a father to be....no price is too much to pay for the safety of my child.

I'm being ambiguous on purpose. If I spout off about this then there would be little to say or argue against. I will say that I agree whith what some of you have said....but your eyes are not fully open yet.

If you own and use a cell phone...you are being tracked each time you make a call...it is federal law. What? You ask what? Why yes...did you not know this already? In order for 911 calls to be processed efficiently, all cell calls must be tracked in order for a timely response.

.....and all of you have done NOTHING about this.

As a father to be....no price is too much to pay for the safety of my child.

Would I spend time in prison in exchange for information, be it coerced or not, pertaining to my missing/abducted child?

Why do some people argue for the privacy of child predators as it relates to Megan's Law but will not fathom the idea proposed in my original post? Why do some people install Lo-Jack on their vehicles but not a tracking wristwatch on their child? Why do we always forsake the value of life but not our valuables?

http://www.missingkids.org/

Family Abductions - 354,100
Nonfamily Abductions - 3,200 to 4,600
Attempted Nonfamily Abductions - 114,600
Runaways - 450,700
Thrownaways - 127,100
Lost, Injured, or Otherwise Missing - 438,200

According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s National Crime Information Center (NCIC) there were 876,213 missing-person entries (juveniles and adults) in the year 2000. A review of NCIC data shows that approximately 85-90 percent of those entries were juveniles. Thus, in approximately 750,000 cases (or on average 2,100 per day), the disappearance of a child was serious enough that a parent called law enforcement and the law-enforcement agency took a report and entered it into NCIC. It should be noted, however, that the vast majority of these cases are resolved within hours.

The reason why we have these numbers is because of all the STUPID PARENTS that don't know how to be a PARENT in the first place!

Enough of me....carry on as I will remain ambiguous on this subject as I would rather not sway someone elses opinion on the matter.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:07 pm

I have to bring up one really, really big issue that SoC reminded me of.

You ever think that it would be amazingly easy to track the signals? Hell, think about it. You get a good laptop/antanne setup, with a program tuned in to catch the GPS signals or whatever.

Wow, suddenly the device /promotes/ getting kidnapped. UOD, would you /risk/ the safety of your child for an expensive farce?

mouse · Post by **mouse** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 3:22 pm

As a mother of 3 children, I would have them implanted with no problem. I think that this should also be available to adults who chose to use it when traveling to other countrys.

Just think if reporters who are in afganastan right now had this implanted. Pearl would be back home already.

This is a very invasive idea but when they are your children you wnat to do everything you can to protect them. We live in a society were pediphiles are allowed to move into your neighborhood unannounced, where your children are bused across town for school and it is nolonger safe to send your children outside to play.

The world is changing and we must change with it...

Mouse

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 3:24 pm

Mouse, can I put a beta-tracker in you? Kthanks.

Listen. What I am saying here is that they'll find a way to trace the signals. Hello-o..

Grimson · Post by **Grimson** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 3:25 pm

Originally posted by Brent
It's just one step closer to the apocalypse...

I agree with brent, it would only be the beginning.

mouse · Post by **mouse** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 3:37 pm

Originally posted by Paft
Mouse, can I put a beta-tracker in you? Kthanks.

Listen. What I am saying here is that they'll find a way to trace the signals. Hello-o..

Uhmmm no you can't.

For one thing I am an a adult who can make my own choices. If I chose to have something like that implanted that would be my own choice for my own safety.

My children on the other hand are at the mercy of every predator and pediphile this county has to offer every time they leave my house. Unlike my property, I can't chain, lock or tie down my children. They must be allowed to live life, I will just make sure that if they get lost out there I have a Quick way to find and help them. That is my Job...

Mouse

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 3:40 pm

Originally posted by mouse
Uhmmm no you can't.

For one thing I am an a adult who can make my own choices. If I chose to have something like that implanted that would be my own choice for my own safety.

My children on the other hand are at the mercy of every predator and pediphile this county has to offer every time they leave my house. Unlike my proterty, I can chain, lock or tie down my children. They must be allowed to live life, I will just make sure that if they get lost out there I have a Quick way to find and help them. That is my Job...

Mouse

No you can't. Your children aren't your 'property', and if you are that poor of a parent to need one of those things..

I'm not saying that you are a poor parent, by far. Hells no, I look up to you. But I am stating that I wouldn't want to force anyone to be watched by the government 24/7. It's just utterly wrong.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 3:41 pm

Actually my post about bowling was in jest.....

What I do see is two camps here. Those who are to young to have kids and those who do.

As a parent, instinct is to always keep your kids safe. For those in the "do not do it" camp, put yourself into Evan's shoes........

Could you really live with yourself if your child was found in someones freezer a year after he/she, came up missing? Or worse, was never found?

This world is getting very dangerous. Uod dude......let your conscience be your guide. The device can always be removed when you feel a little more comfortable with your childrens welfare.

Hell my wife still worries about my son. Who has been able to whoop his ol man for 2 years now.

SeedOfChaos · Post by **SeedOfChaos** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 5:28 pm

The discussion is not about whether or not protecting your kids, people. The discussion is HOW you can protect your kids >efficiently<. In my opinion, that device is not effictive at all considering the costs and sideffects of it. The thing is, if you have an implant that can be tracked, who says nobody else can track it?!? Nobody! Besides, exactly what protection does this device offer?!? None, really. Please re-read my first post in this thread. Criminals WILL find a way around it (heck, have some sort of scanner to check where the implant is, then rip it out of your flesh and give it to a dog or something... set up a couple of decoy senders to cloak the true location, whatever, I'm POSITIVE that the system can be tricked in one way or the other).

Suppose you send your kid to school and arrive 15 minutes late to pick him/her back up. That leaves at least 10 minutes for someone to pick your kid up and get rid of the implant, which will probably be doable (hell, just cover the back of a van with lead plates to block the signal!). Before you arrive you probably won't check the tracking device, since you don't suspect your kid has been kidnapped. Then you don't have ANY clue at all where your kid is. No protection at all, being 15 minutes late could be too much.

So for no guaranteed protection (again, the implant won't stop bullets or knives yet...) you are willing to sacrifice MUCH of your kid's privacy and freedom? Besides, what fun would it be to be a kid if your parent knows where you are 100% of the time?!? IMO knowing that would create a lot of mentally disturbed people. Make Welles' big brother real.

I guess my bottom line is that you can't protect against everything. You'll always run a risk SOMEWHERE. Of course you should decrease the risk wherever it makes sense, but IMO in this case it just doesn't. The only real protection would be something that gives you invulnerability, and let's face it, that only exists in computer games.

And another thing. I don't know just how bad the crime rate has gotten in the US in the past few years, but can it really be THAT bad?!? Geez, if some kid gets kidnapped and disappears over here, it's on the national TV news, sometimes as headline for days. If you calculate the per capita crime rates, you'll probably realize that the chance of your kid being victim to something really bad is probably extremely low, unless you live in a bad neighborhood. If you do, move away, that'll do a lot more than this device.

Just my opinion,
Ronald

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 6:25 pm

Hmmmm, for finding kids that have gone astray, looks like a pancea, but those types of cures often have UGLY results in the long run.

The fact that kidnappers would look for this thing, and possibly mutilate the child is a scary thought. And whats keepin the bad guys from attaching the unit to the side of a 18 wheeler with some duct tape, and really confusin the heck outta the authorities? Poor trucker rolls over a hill to see 500 federal agents with M-16's and wanting vengance, eeek.

Pros, if done in a sneaky manner, a device thats not detectible outright(I.E. metal dectector) WOULD be a pretty darnned good way to find lost souls. The Feds(assuming that child crosses state lines, or are all kidnapping incidents Fed territory?) could track, and pick good places to intercept. This is a full blown moose of a dilema. I'd wear one that I could remove, but I have lotsa experience with GPS, and have handhelds I play with, so need for it really. I don't get lost, and I doubt anyone would take me anyways, I'm armed 100% of the time.

*edit*

I have read of one incident where anti-kidnapping procedures worked like a charm. A child was nicked in a Sam's Club, the hysterical mom went to the front and told the manager. The strore went into lockdown. The employees hereded everyone into a confined area, and searched the place. The crew found the kid in the bathroom, head shaved, and the potential kidnappers had already changed his/her clothes. This was in the span of 5 mins or so.

speedguidename · Post by **speedguidename** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 12:42 pm

Originally posted by Paft

No you can't. Your children aren't your 'property'

There is tremendous truth in that statement.

Before the introduction of contractual law, social security numbers, birth certificates and the like, children were "chattal" or "property" of the parent, much like real property or a wife. This is firmly documented, and still practiced in various cultures.

Nowadays, a parent has an wquitable interest in their children through contractual agreements made with various state and federal governments. FACT!

It is simply amazing that society as a whole has such a short term memory, lest we forget what history has taught us. There is nothing new in the behavior of man that hasn't existed since the beginning. All the atrocious crimes that were committed in the days of old are still being committed today. To think that an implant, or a fingerprint, etc etc is going to stop a crime from being committed is ludicrous. Man has become his own god, and failed to realize that his creations are sorely flawed at best.

I would caution for those who take a chip, to think wisely, and explore all the possibilities. As is clearly seen now in everyday life, the price of security is the loss of freedom.

TheAntipop · Post by **TheAntipop** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 1:31 pm

if the child agrees and is knowledgeable enough to agree then ok. for a parent to implant something into their child however, to me is just wrong. did you ask it if you could put this thing in it? no! ok so cell phone calls are traced everytime you make a call but you have to make the call first. with this thing you dont even have to do anything its right there and with no personal concent the company/government knows exactly where you are what your vital signs are and probly what your doing. its not gonna stop your kid from running out and doing coke or being kidnapped its just lets you know exactly where the body is after the deed is done and gives the gov. a leg up on the masses. how many people do you know that can say gee i wish that i had that when my kid was held for ransome? if you happen to know any i bet you can count them on one hand. there are a couple hundred million people in this country alone a lot of them are bad people

Family Abductions - 354,100
Nonfamily Abductions - 3,200 to 4,600
Attempted Nonfamily Abductions - 114,600
Runaways - 450,700
Thrownaways - 127,100
Lost, Injured, or Otherwise Missing - 438,200

these numbers are but a fraction of the population. could it happen to your kid? yes. will it happen to your kid? probly not unless your the president of happen to have 34 million dollars to give the kidnapper a reason to hold on the the child instead of just doing god knows what with it and throwing it in the dumpster behind the chinease food place on the corner. dont feel to bad though at least youll have the peice of mind that with this system you may be able to get to the body soon enough to be able to have an open casket viewing before the funeral. that is unless there was a pipe bomb in the mouth of the child to prevent it from being identified by dental records.

sheep my friends were all just sheep.

TheAntipop · Post by **TheAntipop** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 1:41 pm

brembo. all kidnappings are federal crimes because a very large percentage of them go across state lines so even if the kidnapper doesnt its still federal because its the norm.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 1:47 pm

Originally posted by speedguidename

There is tremendous truth in that statement.

Before the introduction of contractual law, social security numbers, birth certificates and the like, children were "chattal" or "property" of the parent, much like real property or a wife. This is firmly documented, and still practiced in various cultures.

Nowadays, a parent has an wquitable interest in their children through contractual agreements made with various state and federal governments. FACT!

It is simply amazing that society as a whole has such a short term memory, lest we forget what history has taught us. There is nothing new in the behavior of man that hasn't existed since the beginning. All the atrocious crimes that were committed in the days of old are still being committed today. To think that an implant, or a fingerprint, etc etc is going to stop a crime from being committed is ludicrous. Man has become his own god, and failed to realize that his creations are sorely flawed at best.

I would caution for those who take a chip, to think wisely, and explore all the possibilities. As is clearly seen now in everyday life, the price of security is the loss of freedom.

What difference does it make?

If I were to gouge out the heart of your child with a butcher knife...I'm in effect, gouging out the last bit of freedom that they could ever have. I can deny your child the freedom to exist in a second and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it is there?
Tell me that you are this worthless heap that you say you are....

You have no spine...you are nothing more than a jellyfish, waiting to be caught in a net. That is exactly what you are saying correct? Poor little me....I can do nothing to stop the criminal minded....boofrigginwhoooooo speedguidename!

Once again, you fail to offer a solution.

To think that an implant, or a fingerprint, etc etc is going to stop a crime from being committed is ludicrous.

SO WHAT WILL???

I know the answer but I REFUSE to post it because I can't believe that you continue to hide from the truth.

I think the reason why you find it ludicrous is the fact that it is REAL change and like most people...you FEAR change.
The reason why the behavior of man hasn't changed over the centuries is because of what??????

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 1:56 pm

Speedguidename....let me ask you one simple question.

IS THE LAW OF MAN BASED UPON THE LOVE FOR HUMANITY OR BASED UPON THE FEAR OF HUMANITY?

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Wed Feb 13, 2002 2:38 pm

Originally posted by mouse
As a mother of 3 children, I would have them implanted with no problem. I think that this should also be available to adults who chose to use it when traveling to other countrys.

Just think if reporters who are in afganastan right now had this implanted. Pearl would be back home already.

This is a very invasive idea but when they are your children you wnat to do everything you can to protect them. We live in a society were pediphiles are allowed to move into your neighborhood unannounced, where your children are bused across town for school and it is nolonger safe to send your children outside to play.

The world is changing and we must change with it...

Mouse

We're on the same page here mouse!

However people may feel, this would drastically lower if not eliminate those terrible crimes happening to children. I do say this, it must be a choice for the parents to decide and of course for the adult as well.

Think about it like this....

What about those anti-theft devices located on some cars that can be tracked via satellite? You'd want your Camero or Porche back if it was stolen wouldn't you? And to have one of those devices installed on your car is up to the individual right?

speedguidename · Post by **speedguidename** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 10:16 pm

Uod, your reply warrants a response. Not due to your self assuming wisdom, but your blatant foolishness.

Time and again you have chastized me in this forum for not scanning the archives to see if you have previously posted. For repeating posts that you have "originally" posted.

You claim to have all the answers, yet offer none. You thrive to offer your intelligence, yet show ignorance. You find solace in a self proclaimed mastery.

I am asking you now that if you cannot allow my posts to be expressed without a childish attack, then I will not reply to any further posts from you.

I believe in the freedom of expression, and will do what I can to preserve that right. However, I do not condone personal attacks of self diluted grandieur.

My time is much more valuable than to piddle with the temper tantrums of someone who espouses wisdom, yet shows immaturity. I am more than willing to discuss issues with you, but I will not be the object of your attempt at control.

I believe I have covered everything. Flame away, throw a fit, do what you need to do. But I will not tolerate the personal attacks any longer, be assured of that!

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Wed Feb 13, 2002 11:50 pm

Originally posted by speedguidename
Uod, your reply warrants a response. Not due to your self assuming wisdom, but your blatant foolishness.

Time and again you have chastized me in this forum for not scanning the archives to see if you have previously posted. For repeating posts that you have "originally" posted.

You claim to have all the answers, yet offer none. You thrive to offer your intelligence, yet show ignorance. You find solace in a self proclaimed mastery.

I am asking you now that if you cannot allow my posts to be expressed without a childish attack, then I will not reply to any further posts from you.

I believe in the freedom of expression, and will do what I can to preserve that right. However, I do not condone personal attacks of self diluted grandieur.

My time is much more valuable than to piddle with the temper tantrums of someone who espouses wisdom, yet shows immaturity. I am more than willing to discuss issues with you, but I will not be the object of your attempt at control.

I believe I have covered everything. Flame away, throw a fit, do what you need to do. But I will not tolerate the personal attacks any longer, be assured of that!

You remind me of someone. Yes you do. Could you be the infamous "Perspective"? Your rant sure sounds like it. Please feel free to let us all know.

Edit: Bump for UOD

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Thu Feb 14, 2002 1:45 am

Originally posted by speedguidename
Uod, your reply warrants a response. Not due to your self assuming wisdom, but your blatant foolishness.

Time and again you have chastized me in this forum for not scanning the archives to see if you have previously posted. For repeating posts that you have "originally" posted.

You claim to have all the answers, yet offer none. You thrive to offer your intelligence, yet show ignorance. You find solace in a self proclaimed mastery.

I am asking you now that if you cannot allow my posts to be expressed without a childish attack, then I will not reply to any further posts from you.

I believe in the freedom of expression, and will do what I can to preserve that right. However, I do not condone personal attacks of self diluted grandieur.

My time is much more valuable than to piddle with the temper tantrums of someone who espouses wisdom, yet shows immaturity. I am more than willing to discuss issues with you, but I will not be the object of your attempt at control.

I believe I have covered everything. Flame away, throw a fit, do what you need to do. But I will not tolerate the personal attacks any longer, be assured of that!

Answer the question...it's rather simple.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Thu Feb 14, 2002 2:08 am

Nothing can stop someone from commiting a crime. Nothing.

If I have a purpose in my heart to go out and rob a bank, then nothing will deterr me. Or if I purpose to go and shoot myself in the head. Hell, I know there is a law against Suicide, but does that matter? Uh, NO.

My point to you is that you /cannot/ force an ineffective half-hearted "solution" on someone who will forever be impacted by that. You are worred /so badly/ about Comcast privacy... hello-o hypocrate. You aren't making the connetion here.. both situations are..

use of a technology against an unwitting/unwilling individual who has no choice in the matter, and who will directly be affected by the use.

You have no right to do that, if you truly believe in freedom. I believe it's, "Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of Happiness"? Well, I don't know about you, but having the gvmt spy on me 24/7 really, really screws my 'persuit of happiness' and 'liberty' chances.

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Thu Feb 14, 2002 8:07 am

Well, by reading the posts in this thread, it becomes obviously clear how things fall into (mostly) two categories. People who are for the technology are parents that have kids. People who are against it are either kids themselves or have no kids.

If you are a parent, you know that you would do *anything* to ensure the safety of a child. The tracking device is there solely as a reactionary device. These devices aren't intended to stop child abductions (how can it?), but are intended to aid in the recovery of the children. There are flaws in the system, as SoC pointed out in his post. But it is a tool to help the parent. Criminals are going to commit the crime regardless of whether or not there is a tracking device in the victim.

It's been argued that children aren't property, and they're not. But on the flip side of that argument, as soon as the child comes out of the womb, the parents are obligated, both morally and legally, to take care of that child. Am I not allowed to have doctors put tubes in my childrens ears to help with their hearing without consenting the child first? Who gives consent for a pacemaker on a two year old child that needs one? Not the child.

CajunTech · Post by **CajunTech** » Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:19 am

I'm a parent and I wouldn't let anyone implant any type of device that isn't absolutely necessary into my daughter. Besides, I want my daughter to trust me, not think the government or myself is spying on her 24/7. If she's ever kidnapped, abducted, or runs away I'd find her the old fashioned way.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Thu Feb 14, 2002 12:40 pm

Originally posted by Paft
Nothing can stop someone from commiting a crime. Nothing.

If I have a purpose in my heart to go out and rob a bank, then nothing will deterr me. Or if I purpose to go and shoot myself in the head. Hell, I know there is a law against Suicide, but does that matter? Uh, NO.

My point to you is that you /cannot/ force an ineffective half-hearted "solution" on someone who will forever be impacted by that. You are worred /so badly/ about Comcast privacy... hello-o hypocrate. You aren't making the connetion here.. both situations are..

use of a technology against an unwitting/unwilling individual who has no choice in the matter, and who will directly be affected by the use.

You have no right to do that, if you truly believe in freedom. I believe it's, "Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of Happiness"? Well, I don't know about you, but having the gvmt spy on me 24/7 really, really screws my 'persuit of happiness' and 'liberty' chances.

Excuse me Paft...but if you had carefully read my posts...you would see that I'm not taking any position on this matter.

Read my posts word for word..(they haven't changed a bit) and tell me that I am. I am playing both sides against the other in hopes that we can find a solution that meets eachothers viewpoints halfway. I'm quite the moderate in real life...but I do side with that of common sense and logic.

As far as being a hypocrite....thats why we have Democrats

LOL ...just kidding...in all seriousness, I think that you, being the intelligent person you are would agree that there are differences in privacy and how it is used, administered, exploited...etc. We can't just box up privacy and use it as a blanket for all things or situations.

Comcast was invading our privacy...that is, without our knowledge or consent.

Digital Angel is sought out by the parents voluntarily If any trouble comes of it...well, they asked for it. Too bad for them.

Big difference there. In any case, now that I've had a chance to get over being mad at speedguidename...I'll once again offer the olive branch and extend my hand....I am your ally man. Let's keep it that way.

Carry on.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Thu Feb 14, 2002 2:40 pm

*takes the olive branch and passes back his own*

I know you're playing both sides.

Just felt like responding, and you happened to be the last post I saw.