What will the newly passed Healthcare reform mean?

[Sarahnn]

He calls it health care, but there is nothing caring about what Obama just did to the American people. He confiscated our means to take care of ourselves without government intervention.

When the government has the power to determine how you will fight illness; and when the government tells you under which conditions they will help you, or fine you, your life is in the governments hands.

A government that controls it's people's health will have to make life and death decisions whether you think so or not.

Our Preamble to the Declaration of Independence may say we have the right to Life, but the government will now decide when, where and how through beaurocratic red tape and fines.

Who are these 32 million people who would want this?

[Joe]

We are almost the ONLY developed nation to not have government (socialized) health care.

That figure is also directly related to others such as average life expectancy, waiting times, costs, etc... Which we are all on the low end of or the worse.

[Prey521]

Not worried, this will get shutdown once it reaches the Supreme Court. The government has NO authority to force you to buy something, zero, zilch, nada. You want to live, you MUST have coverage or we WILL fine you. F U!

[blebs]

Believe it or not, some of them do exist. I'm not sure if they've lost their minds, truly want socialism/communism or just what. I'm totally appalled at how this whole thing went down. There is no way in hell that those who voted for this bill read it. I'm still reading it a week later and I'm no where close to the middle YET.

What will it mean? For me, it's not good news. I'm on a Medicare Advantage Plan and they are going to take severe cuts.

[blebs]

Not worried, this will get shutdown once it reaches the Supreme Court. The government has NO authority to force you to buy something, zero, zilch, nada. You want to live, you MUST have coverage or we WILL fine you. F U!

I pray your right, but everything I'm reading indicates there next to 0% chance of this being overturned.

[JawZ]

IMO the GOP needs to reconcile a couple of things. First, the stance on abortion. Every fetus has the right to life up until birth...after that, screw you...you are on your own. To me, that stands out as somewhat of a contradiction. Secondly, can health care exist amidst a free market economy? There really aren't too many examples of a successful health care system that coexists along side of a free market system. Maybe health care is so unique that it can't. Then again, maybe the US is unique in that it has the right formula for success. Our republic is still in the infant stages imo. Maybe these are just some of the growing pains. I do think that in time we'll get it right.

[Prey521]

I pray your right, but everything I'm reading indicates there next to 0% chance of this being overturned.

It's not impossible, if it makes it to the SCOTUS, the Lefty Judges are outnumbered by 1, with that 1 being more in the Middle/Right, so it definitely has a legit shot. Also, IF the Republicans can get enough seats and once Obama's ousted in 2012, this law can get thrown in the trash, where it belongs.

[Paft]

I pray your right, but everything I'm reading indicates there next to 0% chance of this being overturned.

Even if it's not, there are states who are actually passing laws that dictate that their citizens are not required to take part in the federal plan. Yeah, I know that technically federal law trumps state law, but with that being said, what good is a law on the books if nobody enforces it?

[Prey521]

Even if it's not, there are states who are actually passing laws that dictate that their citizens are not required to take part in the federal plan. Yeah, I know that technically federal law trumps state law, but with that being said, what good is a law on the books if nobody enforces it?

Healthcare is NOT a right, and they can't FORCE us to carry insurance, it's that simple. Our rights as American's are the free exercise of religion, to speak freely, to bear arms, and to be secure from unwarranted search and seizure.

[TonyT]

Then again, maybe the US is unique in that it has the right formula for success. Our republic is still in the infant stages imo. Maybe these are just some of the growing pains. I do think that in time we'll get it right.

Well, we really don't have a democracy and we are a far cry from having a true republic too. Our current civilization is not enduring growing pains. This civilization is on its way out. History demonstrates this.

Look at our society and compare it to past great civilizations. Those earlier societies failed to endure for the same reasons ours is failing.

[mnosteele52]

Well, we really don't have a democracy and we are a far cry from having a true republic too. Our current civilization is not enduring growing pains. This civilization is on its way out. History demonstrates this.

Look at our society and compare it to past great civilizations. Those earlier societies failed to endure for the same reasons ours is failing.

[JawZ]

Well, we really don't have a democracy and we are a far cry from having a true republic too. Our current civilization is not enduring growing pains. This civilization is on its way out. History demonstrates this.

Look at our society and compare it to past great civilizations. Those earlier societies failed to endure for the same reasons ours is failing.

Well, thank God I'm on the side with all the firepower and all the required training for survival.

[CiscoKid]

The people are hungery, tired, and sick! After suffering with untreated asthma since I aged out of my parents health insurance. I can see any doctor I want as long as I want to rack up thousands and thousands of dollars in medical bills because I have been unable to get a job with full medical benefits. On that same note, I would be paying more in asthma meds then I could be making each month.

Does anyone have a link to a copy of this bill? I'ved tried Google but all I've found is articles about the evils o the bill. Can I ask all of you that are dead set against universal health care, what about it bothers you? I've known MANY MANY people with carriers such as Kaiser and Blue Cross who have waited months for fairly seriouse medical tests, one of them being a cancer screening, that if not for making an end run around his insurance would have resulted in his death.

[JawZ]

The people are hungery, tired, and sick! After suffering with untreated asthma since I aged out of my parents health insurance. I can see any doctor I want as long as I want to rack up thousands and thousands of dollars in medical bills because I have been unable to get a job with full medical benefits. On that same note, I would be paying more in asthma meds then I could be making each month.

Does anyone have a link to a copy of this bill? I'ved tried Google but all I've found is articles about the evils o the bill. Can I ask all of you that are dead set against universal health care, what about it bothers you? I've known MANY MANY people with carriers such as Kaiser and Blue Cross who have waited months for fairly seriouse medical tests, one of them being a cancer screening, that if not for making an end run around his insurance would have resulted in his death.

This deserves it's own thread to make it relevant.

[Philip]

Healthcare is NOT a right, and they can't FORCE us to carry insurance, it's that simple. Our rights as American's are the free exercise of religion, to speak freely, to bear arms, and to be secure from unwarranted search and seizure.

Well, theoretically it is debatable whether it is is a right... There is the right to Life to consider as well as liberties. We consider internet access a right these days, some argue about the right to life of an embryo/fetus as JawZ pointed out already, yet when it comes to the right to life after birth it is a personal responsibility...

I'm not defending the bill, healthcare cost is way out of proportion as is, just that I can't help but feel a civilized nation should be able to provide some type of basic medical coverage for citizens and regulate how much insurances and lawyers can profit from your health.

[CiscoKid]

Healthcare is NOT a right, and they can't FORCE us to carry insurance, it's that simple. Our rights as American's are the free exercise of religion, to speak freely, to bear arms, and to be secure from unwarranted search and seizure.

Why can't affordable medical care be a right?

[mnosteele52]

Why can't affordable medical care be a right?

I'll give you a good reason..... I have relatives in Gemany on my wife's side. The last time they were here we were discussing socialism, her cousin told me Germany is in a position now where the government is running out of money because everyone is taking from the system (in healthcare and other "rights") but nobody is putting into the system. People have the attitiude why should I work and pay into the system (taxes) when the government is going to give me everything for free?

It's the governments job to govern, not provide us with the necissities of life, that is our own responsibilty. I have said before, I agree with Healthcare Reform, it needs to be done, but Obama is not reforming healthcare he is spearheading the government takeover of healthcare. There are so many things the government could do that are within their rights to actually provide affordable heathcare for all, but they don't want that, they want to have more government control. Since Obama has been if office he has inserted, on some level, government control of our financial institutions, our auto making industry and now our healthcare.

[blebs]

I'll give you a good reason..... I have relatives in Gemany on my wife's side. The last time they were here we were discussing socialism, her cousin told me Germany is in a position now where the government is running out of money because everyone is taking from the system (in healthcare and other "rights") but nobody is putting into the system. People have the attitiude why should I work and pay into the system (taxes) when the government is going to give me everything for free?

It's the governments job to govern, not provide us with the necissities of life, that is our own responsibilty. I have said before, I agree with Healthcare Reform, it needs to be done, but Obama is not reforming healthcare he is spearheading the government takeover of healthcare. There are so many things the government could do that are within their rights to actually provide affordable heathcare for all, but they don't want that, they want to have more government control. Since Obama has been if office he has inserted, on some level, government control of our financial institutions, our auto making industry and now our healthcare.

And even more troublesome, he's got two more years to really screw us deeply.

[TonyT]

Why healthcare is not a right (or should not be):

1. At any given time, on earth, only about 20% of the population is ill or sick, injured or diseased. Healthcare is for the majority, not the minority.

2. Health is the responsibility of the individual.

3. As in any other service or commodity that involves receiving something that one needs or desires, one must exchange for that service or thing. One cannot expect to receive something for nothing in exchange. To do so is the basis of criminality.

What rights do all men on earth have?
You probably never read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights!

[Sava700]

GOP succeeds in forcing another House vote on health care

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/25/ ... tml?hpt=T1

[Prey521]

And even more troublesome, he's got two more years to really screw us deeply.

The Republicans will make sure he can't do any further damage after the November elections.

[David]

Why healthcare is not a right (or should not be):

1. At any given time, on earth, only about 20% of the population is ill or sick, injured or diseased. Healthcare is for the majority, not the minority.

2. Health is the responsibility of the individual.

3. As in any other service or commodity that involves receiving something that one needs or desires, one must exchange for that service or thing. One cannot expect to receive something for nothing in exchange. To do so is the basis of criminality.

What rights do all men on earth have?
You probably never read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights!

1. Where did you arrive at that number? Regardless, the majority becomes ill at one time or another.

2. Aspects of it, yes. However, the body does breakdown.

3. Deductibles are design to reduce nuisance visits. We decide as a community, what projects seem fit for a common goal. It could be a highway, a parks system or a hospital. If it is some level of encompassing health care, then it is worked or paid for as such.

What rights do we have? None.... none at all. Save for what the leadership of a society permits.

[Sarahnn]

What rights do we have? None.... none at all. Save for what the leadership of a society permits.

How do you reconcile that with the Constitution? The leadership in this country is determined by who is elected by the people on two different levels.

[jeremyboycool]

Well, we really don't have a democracy and we are a far cry from having a true republic too. Our current civilization is not enduring growing pains. This civilization is on its way out. History demonstrates this.

Look at our society and compare it to past great civilizations. Those earlier societies failed to endure for the same reasons ours is failing.

"Look at our society and compare it to past great civilizations. Those earlier societies failed to endure for the same reasons ours is failing"

What societies and what reasons?

[David]

How do you reconcile that with the Constitution? The leadership in this country is determined by who is elected by the people on two different levels.

The question was, "What right do all men on earth have?".

[tao_jones]

How do you reconcile that with the Constitution? The leadership in this country is determined by who is elected by the people on two different levels.

The Constitution says that we have the rights but in most cases it is up to a specific branch of the Gov to enforce those rights and to decide what falls under each umbrella.

[tao_jones]

We needed healthcare reform based on cleaning up the inefficiencies of the healthcare system from the doctors down to the billing depts to insurance companies.

[jeremyboycool]

I'll give you a good reason..... I have relatives in Gemany on my wife's side. The last time they were here we were discussing socialism, her cousin told me Germany is in a position now where the government is running out of money because everyone is taking from the system (in healthcare and other "rights") but nobody is putting into the system. People have the attitiude why should I work and pay into the system (taxes) when the government is going to give me everything for free?

It's the governments job to govern, not provide us with the necissities of life, that is our own responsibilty. I have said before, I agree with Healthcare Reform, it needs to be done, but Obama is not reforming healthcare he is spearheading the government takeover of healthcare. There are so many things the government could do that are within their rights to actually provide affordable heathcare for all, but they don't want that, they want to have more government control. Since Obama has been if office he has inserted, on some level, government control of our financial institutions, our auto making industry and now our healthcare.

Government is not giving away free health-care, it will still be your job to secure your own health-care.

It was my understanding that if you don't have health-care then you get an extra tax (2.5% tax off your modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year). So most everyone will be putting into the "pot".

I have been seeing at lot about "personal responsibility", but that is what the tax is meant to help incite. This can't just be handed over to the masses and expect health-care to reform because the masses suddenly become more responsible; that is not going to happen. We having been running on is a health-care system that is largely controlled by the masses and that is why we are in the position we are now.

[Sarahnn]

The question was, "What right do all men on earth have?".

Well, our founding Fathers believed that we are born with unalienable rights and that is why we became a sovereign country under our Constitution. I'll have to agree with them. But, those rights aren't a giveaway. They have to be fought for and defended and sacrifices have to be made.

[Sarahnn]

The Constitution says that we have the rights but in most cases it is up to a specific branch of the Gov to enforce those rights and to decide what falls under each umbrella.

There are no buts about it. If we are born with certain rights then they are ours, until someone takes them away from us.

Some people believe they would rather fight to the death than live under tyranny, but they will accept laws to keep everyone's rights in check once we have secured them.

[Debbie]

The people are hungery, tired, and sick! After suffering with untreated asthma since I aged out of my parents health insurance. I can see any doctor I want as long as I want to rack up thousands and thousands of dollars in medical bills because I have been unable to get a job with full medical benefits. On that same note, I would be paying more in asthma meds then I could be making each month.

Does anyone have a link to a copy of this bill? I'ved tried Google but all I've found is articles about the evils o the bill. Can I ask all of you that are dead set against universal health care, what about it bothers you? I've known MANY MANY people with carriers such as Kaiser and Blue Cross who have waited months for fairly seriouse medical tests, one of them being a cancer screening, that if not for making an end run around his insurance would have resulted in his death.

Some reading material...

Bill October 2009: http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

Senate amendments ecember 2009

http://docs.house.gov/rules/hr4872/111_ ... rossed.pdf


http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_1 ... ummary.pdf
http://docs.house.gov/energycommerce/PA ... REFORM.pdf

[Debbie]

Breaking News Alert
The New York Times
Thu, March 25, 2010 -- 2:26 PM ET
-----

Senate Passes Reconciliation Bill, 56-43

After running through an obstacle course of Republican
amendments and procedural objections, the Senate on Thursday
afternoon approved of a package of changes to the Democrats'
sweeping health care overhaul, capping a bitter partisan
battle over the most far-reaching social legislation in
nearly half a century.

Republicans, raising procedural challenges, identified flaws
that struck out minor provisions to the bill. Because of
those changes, it now goes back to the House for one more
vote, though passage seemed virtually assured.

Democrats said they were confident the measure would soon be
on President Obama's desk for his signature. The vote, just
after 2 p.m., was 56 to 43, with the Republicans unanimously
opposed.

Read More:
http://www.nytimes.com?emc=na

[Roody]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/25/ ... tml?hpt=T1

Real powerful. Doesn't even appear they will delay it for 24 hours.

Senate passes health care 'fixes' bill

Washington (CNN) -- The Senate passed the slightly altered health care "fixes" bill Thursday, sending it back to the House of Representatives.

Two minor provisions removed due to a Republican challenge will not affect the new health care law signed Tuesday by President Obama.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-California, said Thursday she expects the House will approve the proposed package of changes to the new health care law by the end of the day -- thereby wrapping up its work on President Obama's top domestic priority.

Pelosi dismissed the significance of Senate Republicans' success in forcing the proposed "fixes" bill back to the House of Representatives, which previously passed the measure Sunday night along with the Democrats' underlying reform plan.

Pelosi said the House had the votes to pass health care reform Sunday night and "we'll have it today." She added lawmakers want to "finish our work up today."

The GOP has vowed to use every parliamentary tool available to undermine the new law. Republican leaders forced the Senate to begin deliberations on a series of proposed amendments starting Wednesday night. The Senate did not adjourn until 2:45 a.m. Thursday.

The Senate reconvened at 9:45 a.m. to consider additional GOP proposals which, among other things, are designed to force Democrats to cast unpopular votes in the run-up to November's midterm elections.

On Wednesday night, Senate Democrats easily defeated the first of 29 amendments introduced by Republicans, which challenged provisions in the bill such as those involving changes to Medicare funding. Also defeated were attempts to send the measure to committee for reconsideration -- which would effectively kill it -- and other amendments intended to strip provisions from the bill.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Maryland, said Thursday the problems found by Senate Republicans were minor and indicated he expected the House to approve the package of changes later Thursday.

"My presumption is that they've found that the problems that exist" are "small" and "technical," Hoyer told CNN's "American Morning."

The Senate "will send the bill back, my expectation is, sometime this afternoon. And [then the House] will pass the bill and send it on to the president."

The Democrats' so-called "fixes" bill was necessary to get a reluctant House to pass the Senate's health care reform measure Sunday night.

The compromise package would add more than $60 billion to the overall plan's cost, partly by expanding insurance subsidies for middle- and lower-income families. It would also expand Medicare's prescription drug benefit while scaling back the bill's taxes on expensive insurance plans.

Democratic senators complained that Republicans had shut down committee hearings for a second straight day as part of a strategy of obstruction in protest of the health care bill.

Sen. Carl Levin, D-Michigan, and Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Missouri, told a news conference the GOP tactic was delaying work on vital issues.

"It's unconscionable," said Levin, who as chair of the Armed Services Committee was supposed to conduct a hearing with a top U.S. military commander in Korea who had flown in for the hearing. "Our national security cannot be held hostage to disagreements over a health care policy."

McCaskill had planned an oversight hearing on problems with contracts to train local police departments in Afghanistan. She said the Senate rule that allows the minority party to block committee action was "really dumb" and should be dropped.

"Disagree with us, debate us, vote no," she said. "But to use a rule to stop us from working -- that dog just doesn't hunt from where I come from. That doesn't even makes sense. That's why people in American think we are clueless here."

Levin said he "pleaded" with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky to prevent the blocking of a second day of hearings. A GOP objection on Tuesday also closed down committee work.

"It seems to me this is an example of how the obstructionism around here has gotten mindless," Levin said.

A GOP leadership aide would not directly respond to Levin's charge, but noted that Democrats canceled hearings Tuesday so that senators could attend the White House signing ceremony for the health care bill.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/25/ ... tml?hpt=T1

[Sarahnn]

Real powerful. Doesn't even appear they will delay it for 24 hours.

I can't understand why you think that's so funny, when you don't even know how that bill will effect you? None of this is funny. Death isn't funny. Taxation of hard-earned money isn't funny. Legislative procedure isn't funny when each action is representative of American citizens. I find your reaction odd, Roody.

And I thought the sign was just to lighten things up, not ridicule everyone's efforts.

Maybe I'm wrong!! Sava can correct me on that.

[David]

Well, our founding Fathers believed that we are born with unalienable rights and that is why we became a sovereign country under our Constitution. I'll have to agree with them. But, those rights aren't a giveaway. They have to be fought for and defended and sacrifices have to be made.

I believe you have a contradiction. If we are born with said rights, then they are a "giveaway". These rights were not the reason for us becoming a sovereign nation, it was by the bayonet and rifle.

We are born of dust, with nothing but our lives. On those bank sheets, are written our deeds. Sadly, paper is temporal as it is fragile.

[tao_jones]

There are no buts about it. If we are born with certain rights then they are ours, until someone takes them away from us.

Some people believe they would rather fight to the death than live under tyranny, but they will accept laws to keep everyone's rights in check once we have secured them.

I am not arguing with you and saying you do not have these rights but the Constituion is open to interpretation. Not all of the rights are open ended You have the right to free speech but your rights end when they impact the rights of others such as assault and libel/slander...It is the role of the Federal Gov to interpret the meaning (Supreme Court) and enforce these rights.

[Sarahnn]

I believe you have a contradiction. If we are born with said rights, then they are a "giveaway".

What I meant is that man does not give you those rights. They are yours when you are born, and have to be protected and defended.

These rights were not the reason for us becoming a sovereign nation, it was by the bayonet and rifle.

Are you saying that the reason why we decided to become a sovereign nation rather than be under the tyranny of King George is because we owned weapons?

We are born of dust, with nothing but our lives. On those bank sheets, are written our deeds. Sadly, paper is temporal as it is fragile.

No one is arguing that. But, even that does not give us the right to oppress others. Even Moses knew that his people should be liberated.

[Sarahnn]

I am not arguing with you and saying you do not have these rights but the Constituion is open to interpretation. Not all of the rights are open ended You have the right to free speech but your rights end when they impact the rights of others such as assault and libel/slander...It is the role of the Federal Gov to interpret the meaning (Supreme Court) and enforce these rights.

I was referring to three rights mentioned in the Preamble to our Constitution.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, among others.

[TonyT]

"Look at our society and compare it to past great civilizations. Those earlier societies failed to endure for the same reasons ours is failing"

What societies and what reasons?

Phoenetians
Egyptian
Greece
Rome (after falling, was followed by many hundreds of years of little cultural progress)
are the main civilizations we've had.

They all fell and decayed for the same reasons, man's inhumanity to man and man's immoral practices. During their last years (spanning about 30-50 years) they all had rising crime, debauchery, crooked politicians, failing edu, war as a solution, promiscuity and worse, criminal leaders.

Study your history. But don't go by the history books or the courses/propaganda they teach you in schools, go to a library and or read Will Durant. Don't for one minute think that another Dark Ages is not possible, it is, and worse. Atomic weapons and bio weapons would ensure that.

[TonyT]

1. Where did you arrive at that number? Regardless, the majority becomes ill at one time or another.

2. Aspects of it, yes. However, the body does breakdown.

3. Deductibles are design to reduce nuisance visits. We decide as a community, what projects seem fit for a common goal. It could be a highway, a parks system or a hospital. If it is some level of encompassing health care, then it is worked or paid for as such.

What rights do we have? None.... none at all. Save for what the leadership of a society permits.

Yes, everybody, at one time or another becomes ill, injured or worse. That's a fact that cannot be avoided. Such is Life. But at any given time, only about 20% of all of us are ill at the same time. And by "ill" I mean actual pgysical illness. This does not include ills such as, "I'm hungry and tired and don't feel like doing my chores."

Yes, the body indeed does breakdown. After a certain age it breaks down more rapidly too. But general body breakdown can be somewhat controlled with a good diet and exercize. As well as regular needed maintenence of those things we so often tend to neglect. It's the individual's responsibility to maintain his body health.

Nothing at all bad about deductables or health insurance. The concept is fine. All I'm saying is that health insurance/healthcare cannot be enforced. It won't work if enforced and the system will fail.