Full decriminalization of drugs is successful

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:57 pm

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/ ... index.html

In Portugal.

And we're not talking just pot.....everything. Evidently they have the data that supports their decision to decriminalize drugs.

IMO, I think it's time for a new approach in America.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:59 pm

Decriminalization would be great on so many levels for us.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:00 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Decrimina;ization would be great on so many levels for us.

i know i would vote for it.

edit: at least the sticky icky.

SeedOfChaos · Post by **SeedOfChaos** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:16 pm

Yes, and while we're at it, let's have a look at how the mj criminalization came to be in the first place...

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:17 pm

IMO, going the whole 9 yards in terms of substances is kind of pushing it (let's face it, there are many drugs which are clear and insidious corruptors), but as a principal, i am 100% behind it. the very idea of people being incarcerated and branded "criminal" for their possesion and/or usage is to me, appaling. the crimes committed as a result are what needs to be the focus of the law (obviously). treatment is what should be at an addict's disposal, not the sharp end of the penal system.

tax 'em like there's no tomorrow, and use the proceeds to our society's benefit.

Easto · Post by **Easto** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:44 pm

Well, the feds just said they are not going to go after Medical Marijuana outlets any more here in California. I think that's an incredible step forward.

David · Post by **David** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:03 pm

Marijuana should have been legalized a long time ago.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:12 pm

David wrote:Marijuana should have been legalized a long time ago.

maybe in the privacy of your home but you need a way to test the levels in your system like alcohol or you will have people hit a bong and then run off to work doing who knows what. You'd still have to have rules in place for its sale and use much like alcohol is done.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:15 pm

Sava700 wrote:You'd still have to have rules in place for its sale and use much like alcohol is done.

Yup

David · Post by **David** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:31 pm

Sava700 wrote:maybe in the privacy of your home but you need a way to test the levels in your system like alcohol or you will have people hit a bong and then run off to work doing who knows what. You'd still have to have rules in place for its sale and use much like alcohol is done.

I am in agreement. Expect quite a bit of home grown to avoid taxation.

TonyT · Post by **TonyT** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:29 pm

The reason drugs have not been decriminalized is because there's too much profit in the illegality of it.

You think the powers that be really want smaller prison populations, an efficient justice system, smaller police depts, a saner public & more? Ha! The illegal drug market & its subsidiaries probably rake in more annually than our entire national debt.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:57 pm

TonyT wrote:The reason drugs have not been decriminalized is because there's too much profit in the illegality of it.

You think the powers that be really want smaller prison populations, an efficient justice system, smaller police depts, a saner public & more? Ha! The illegal drug market & its subsidiaries probably rake in more annually than our entire national debt.

Amen, brother.

the number of jobs created by it's illegal status alone is notable. add on top the ancillary bodies who reap profit (re: private businesses running corrections facilities and the resulting prison industry from both private and public/gov't groups) also are typically more politically connected and influential as compared to the more "liberal lifestyle" types. broad generalization i admit, but also logical.

triniwasp · Post by **triniwasp** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:06 pm

The situation along the Mexican border is reason enough to do it, as is the prison system; not to mention the need for tax revenue but I still don't think it will happen.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:55 pm

David wrote:I am in agreement. Expect quite a bit of home grown to avoid taxation.

Well let me be clear that I'm one of that 58% of people in this country (the majority) that think it should remain illegal. But if you do at some time make it legal to grow then you can't allow the home grown amounts much like your "home grown" alcohol or grain is made which is illegal without a license and being a certain amount. You can go so many many different ways with this.

And as others have said making it legal would likely hurt more jobs than it would create so its a brain storm that's for sure.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:10 pm

Faust wrote:...and influential as compared to the more "liberal lifestyle" types. broad generalization i admit, but also logical.

on 2nd reading that may have come off as pompous. i would consider myself of the liberal lifestyle, so no attempt to devalue was intended (although the terms "liberal" and "lifestyle" used in sequence have kind of a stigma, lets get one thing straight... i like boobies).

David · Post by **David** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:10 am

TonyT wrote:The reason drugs have not been decriminalized is because there's too much profit in the illegality of it.

You think the powers that be really want smaller prison populations, an efficient justice system, smaller police depts, a saner public & more? Ha! The illegal drug market & its subsidiaries probably rake in more annually than our entire national debt.

Just like alcohol with prohibition? It would stand probable that the invisible puppeteers prefer a passive, stoned flock. It remains a moral, if not racist issue.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:51 am

TonyT wrote:The reason drugs have not been decriminalized is because there's too much profit in the illegality of it. The illegal drug market & its subsidiaries probably rake in more annually than our entire national debt.

What about if it's taxed?

http://www.drugscience.org/Archive/bcr2/cashcrops.html

From the above link...granted a couple of years old, but the scope is most likely still valid.

"At an estimated $35.8 billion marijuana is by far the largest cash crop in the United States when compared to the average production values of other crops from 2003 to 2005....

...marijuana is the top cash crop in 12 states, one of the top 3 cash crops in 30 states, and one of the top 5 cash crops in 39 states. Marijuana is the largest cash crop in Alaska, Alabama, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Kentucky, Maine, North Carolina, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, and West Virginia."

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:53 am

The US would go through some growing pains if it were legalized. It would likely go through a period of crazy misuse at first...until the novelty sort of wears off.

David · Post by **David** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:08 am

YeOldeStonecat wrote:The US would go through some growing pains if it were legalized. It would likely go through a period of crazy misuse at first...until the novelty sort of wears off.

The "pot" bubble!

TonyT · Post by **TonyT** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:24 am

David wrote:Just like alcohol with prohibition? It would stand probable that the invisible puppeteers prefer a passive, stoned flock. It remains a moral, if not racist issue.

Similar to alcohol & prohibition, except I am referring to all illegal drugs, not just pot. And definitely is racial, the same way the British suppressed the Chinese & Indians w/ opium. Originally, drugs were confined to the poorer environments and minority zones, intentionally so as to keep "that" population discouraged and at bay. In the 1950's, illegal drugs began to spread out as it was incorporated as a communist cold war tactic, destroy the enemy from within. It worked.

Post by **Philip** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:27 am

David wrote:The "pot" bubble!

But it would boost the economy, create new jobs, open new markets...

David · Post by **David** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:27 am

TonyT wrote:Similar to alcohol & prohibition, except I am referring to all illegal drugs, not just pot. And definitely is racial, the same way the British suppressed the Chinese & Indians w/ opium. Originally, drugs were confined to the poorer environments and minority zones, intentionally so as to keep "that" population discouraged and at bay. In the 1950's, illegal drugs began to spread out as it was incorporated as a communist cold war tactic, destroy the enemy from within. It worked.

True enough. My thoughts regard the legalization of cannabis, rather than opiates, amphetamines or cocaine.

David · Post by **David** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:29 am

Philip wrote:But it would boost the economy, create new jobs, open new markets...

Counselors, perhaps.... <laughs>

TonyT · Post by **TonyT** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:29 am

YeOldeStonecat wrote:What about if it's taxed?

http://www.drugscience.org/Archive/bcr2/cashcrops.html

From the above link...granted a couple of years old, but the scope is most likely still valid.

"At an estimated $35.8 billion marijuana is by far the largest cash crop in the United States when compared to the average production values of other crops from 2003 to 2005....

...marijuana is the top cash crop in 12 states, one of the top 3 cash crops in 30 states, and one of the top 5 cash crops in 39 states. Marijuana is the largest cash crop in Alaska, Alabama, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Kentucky, Maine, North Carolina, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, and West Virginia."

Taxing it would generate revenue, that's for certain. But the associated markets would suffer if made legal. e.g. law, law enforcement, war financing, prisons, rehabs, payoffs, organized crime, etc. At least that seems to be the logic used by those who have the authority and power to make it legal. Even banking would suffer.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:01 am

TonyT wrote:Taxing it would generate revenue, that's for certain. But the associated markets would suffer if made legal. e.g. law, law enforcement

I'm not sure there....I'd expect to see resources currently used for DUI..to triple. At least double for sure.

Rehab..and other social services..wouldn't change much. For one..they're piss poor as far as finances go. Second...IMO they don't come into play when it comes to cannabis.

Organized crime...cannabis is childs play to them, chump change...they don't care about that. They deal with goods far up higher the drug scale.

koldchillah · Post by **koldchillah** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:54 am

I think it's only a matter of time before we see decriminilization to some extent.

IMHO, this is what needs to happen to make it all work.

1. MJ becomes legal for personal consumption as well as self-growing up 3 - 5 plants maximum; however, if caught driving under the influence, you can still get a DUI if you can't pass a basic field sobriety test.

2. Dealing and trafficking should remain illegal. The demand for trafficking will begin to drastically fall on it's own as many smokers begin to grow their own stash.

3. Other illicit drugs and substances should only be partially decriminilized. In other words, you can't go to jail, but you can basically lose everything you own if you don't turn your life around at some point. It should be similar to a speeding ticket. 1st offense, big fine and maybe some "drug rehab" courses, similar to traffic obedience courses. 2nd offense, an even bigger fine and perhaps a temporary suspension of drivers license. 3rd offense and the fine becomes ridiculous and could result in a lien against your assets if you have any and can't afford the fine, or a more extensive DL suspension along side a mandatory rehab program. 4th offense and beyond and the DL suspension becomes permanent whether you were involved in a DUI or not and the fines continue to increase until you pretty much find yourself bankrupt and out on the streets due to your complete lack of willpower to help yourself out of the situation. At some point personal responsibility remains the bottom line.

4. All fines and penalties associated with drugs should be split 3-ways between funding for local law enforcement, health & rehab services, and public school systems.

5. The "sin tax" should be considered. Taxing a pack of cigarettes up to $10 per pack will help a lot of people kick the habit as well as provide further funding for healthcare, medical research, & education. I've heard this worked very well in New Zealand. Alcohol should also be taxed a bit more, perhaps about 3-5% to provide even more funding for above mentioned sectors.

I also agree with Stonecat.. It's a HUGE cash crop.. I recall watching an old documentary that cited that if MJ became legal, the major tobacco companies could have MJ cigarrettes loaded up into trucks in mass quantities and on their way to convenience stores across America in less than 90 days.

Think about how much violent crime could be reduced, health care services could be improved, and public school systems could be adequately funded if we suddenly had a major cash crop bringing in massive amounts of money into law enforcement, healthcare and education.

We would need a lot less prisons and more rehab centers, prompting a job surge (even after considering the job losses due to prisons closing) as excess prisons are converted over to halfway houses and rehab centers. We can even offer scholarships for prison guards losing their jobs who would like to work in the new rehab centers where they used to work as a guard.

Once the novelty wore off, the sight of MJ would be nothing more than seeing someone in line at the grocery store with a bottle of wine or case of beer in their cart. Most people simply wouldn't think much of it as long as the general population understands the responsibilities that go along with consumption, same as alcohol today.