Routing across two subnets

Spazo · Post by **Spazo** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:15 pm

My friend and I have the same ISP and are trying to get my router to talk to his router and visa-versa. Our ISP uses internal ips inside their network like my router is 192.168.213.14 and his is 192.168.238.40. I can ping ips that are in my subnet but not him. we both have linksys WRT54G. Have have DD-WRT on mine and he has the standard firmware. Here's what I've already tried for routing.

My Router ->
Destination IP - 192.168.238.0
subnet - 255.255.255.0
gateway - 192.168.238.1
Interface - WAN

Friends Router ->
Destination IP - 192.168.213.0
subnet - 255.255.255.0
gateway - 192.168.213.1
Interface - WAN

All the IP numbers are correct (as in my friends gateway is 192.168.238.1 and mine is 192.168.213.1) Just need to know Why I still cant ping him and he cant ping me.

singularity2006 · Post by **singularity2006** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:55 pm

192 addresses are classified as non routable and used internally on your router only - thus the reason you cannot ping your friend. When you check your router status, you will have an externally provided IP number from the ISP. That is the number that you will need to look at. In addition, that number is dynamic and changes regularly unless you and your friend both pay for a static IP or have some kind of dynamic DNS service running.

The 192 address you see is your router's internal IP number and is not a number that the Internet sees. What the Internet sees is your external IP number, provided by the ISP.

Hope that helps!

Spazo · Post by **Spazo** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:09 am

Thank you for your help but my ISP does their internet setup a little strange. My ISP is a localy owned wireless ISP and gives each customer a privite ip address on their router that then shows up as an internet address that every one uses unless you pay for a static ip. Heres a trace route that shows how they have it setup.

traceroute to google.com (64.233.187.99), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 rout1.lundellnet.com (192.168.2.126) 3.244 ms 7.592 ms 2.47 ms
2 192.168.213.1 (192.168.213.1) 6.86 ms 7.044 ms 7.405 ms
3 10.60.20.1 (10.60.20.1) 7.499 ms 7.561 ms 10.218 ms
4 10.0.1.1 (10.0.1.1) 10.467 ms 11.945 ms 11.233 ms
5 24-223-106-1.static.rcom-ne.com (24.223.106.1) 13.971 ms 8.478 ms 7.933 ms
6 68-113-188-101.static.krny.ne.charter.com (68.113.188.101) 13.643 ms 13.492 ms 10.197 ms
7 66-168-128-1.static.krny.ne.charter.com (66.168.128.1) 13.333 ms 9.338 ms 8.878 ms
8 12.125.72.69 (12.125.72.69) 12.573 ms 17.907 ms 12.225 ms
9 tbr2.sl9mo.ip.att.net (12.122.2.213) 31.712 ms 64.782 ms 36.939 ms
10 cr2.sl9mo.ip.att.net (12.122.18.77) 52.106 ms 29.554 ms 31.585 ms
11 cr2.cgcil.ip.att.net (12.122.2.21) 69.531 ms 30.255 ms 35.393 ms
12 tbr1.cgcil.ip.att.net (12.122.17.142) 73.914 ms 31.531 ms 32.128 ms
13 ggr6.cgcil.ip.att.net (12.122.87.249) 30.748 ms 34.198 ms *
14 chp-brdr-02.inet.qwest.net (63.146.26.93) 464.162 ms 50.54 ms 31.775 ms
15 cer-core-02.inet.qwest.net (205.171.139.117) 96.927 ms 36.57 ms 35.524 ms
16 * atl-core-01.inet.qwest.net (67.14.14.2) 545.63 ms 42.46 ms
17 atl-edge-18.inet.qwest.net (205.171.21.162) 83.757 ms 42.442 ms 55.981 ms
18 63.144.1.6 (63.144.1.6) 53.455 ms 42.545 ms 42.773 ms
19 64.233.174.84 (64.233.174.84) 48.243 ms 64.233.174.86 (64.233.174.86) 45.671 ms 59.077 ms
20 216.239.47.1 (216.239.47.1) 150.413 ms 49.754 ms 43.766 ms
21 216.239.49.222 (216.239.49.222) 64.307 ms 46.904 ms 64.505 ms
22 jc-in-f99.google.com (64.233.187.99) 112.988 ms 44.144 ms 46.72 ms

The 192.168.2.126 is my router (the domain name is just something I was playing with) after it leaves that it jumpes around in their network a little bit before getting on the internet. The internal IPs that they assign to the routers are static. I think they do this to save money on ip addresses or whatever.

singularity2006 · Post by **singularity2006** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:43 pm

What you describe is how all ISP's allocate IP numbers. Regardless of whether or not the ISP provides you an IP number or not, your 192 address is internal to your home network only. That number can only be used behind your router's firewall and is a static firewall seen only by you and your home network. When communicating to the other users of this ISP, you will be using their internal IP number, which is provided to you dynamically (unless you pay for the static).

That said, your traceroute is showing you both your internal IP number as well as your external IP number. The number you want to be concerned with is entry number 3, which is the IP number your ISP is providing to you, 10.60.20.1, which jumps to the next, which I think is your ISP's gateway, which then goes to the public routing network (the Internet). It is THAT number, which can be used to ping and communicate, NOT the 192 address you are trying.

What you need to communicate with your friend within the ISP is either by having them checking their IP number in their router (the 10.x) number, giving it to you, and then you do whatever you need to do before your router renews the IP number with the ISP. However, even that is kind of iffy if your ISP is putting you two on different subnets, which is most likely the case. Because in order to communicate, you will need to be able to determine which component of the IP address octet is for the network address and which is for the host address. If you are using Netmeeting, that IP address will suffice - not always the case for other applications.

More specifically, what are you trying to achieve through networking with your friend across the network? File server, sharing, video conference?

Spazo · Post by **Spazo** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:30 pm

Well both of our WAN ips like(192.168.213.14 and 192.168.238.40) are static ips. They are entered into the router. I could change it but im shure they wouldn't like that. The data we are looking at sending is stuff like network gaming and mabe file sharing. I can't host a game on the internet unless I buy a static ip which I will do in a bit but my friend won't so if he wants to host anything and I want to connect to I cant unless we figure out how to do this. so would the ISP need to tell the 10.x router to allow that or could we somehow route this. I think we can because I've routed stuff like this before on different subnets before through the WAN ports on two routers.

Spazo · Post by **Spazo** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:34 pm

when I said buy a static ip I ment an internet static ip like 24.x.x.x

singularity2006 · Post by **singularity2006** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:45 pm

those are internal to your network and are LAN IP's, not WAN. No one outside your router sees that number except you. Those are changeable and the ISP does not care what they are.

Try to ping the 10 something address I mentioned earlier. If you are within the same subnet of the ISP's network, it will work.

as for online gaming, if you configure your port forwarding properly in your router, it will work. It has nothing to do with connecting, subnetting, and all that stuff you are attempting. Go here for more: http://www.portforward.com/.

Spazo · Post by **Spazo** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:12 pm

I understand Port forwarding (I've done before with my old internet) and IP architecture. But the WAN port on both our routers are private ip addresses that are then routed to the same Public IP of 24.223.106.1 unless you buy static public IP you cant port forward(I've tried

). I would just like to know if you had two ips on a different subnet how would you route them to each other? I've done this behind my router but I can't get it to work outside of it. Its not like im using the wrong ips but I just don't know how to do this outside of my router. Their network is setup like one giant lan of routers that then are forwarded to the internet. I can also ping the 10 ips but I can aslo ping an ip such as 192.168.213.13 and I know that its outside of my router and not inside.

ibook_g4:~ Nate$ traceroute 192.168.213.13
traceroute to 192.168.213.13 (192.168.213.13), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 rout1.lundellnet.com (192.168.2.126) 114.742 ms 2.438 ms 2.454 ms
2 192.168.213.13 (192.168.213.13) 5.088 ms 5.001 ms 22.415 ms

as you can see it leaves my router before reaching the ip(my router internal ip is 192.168.2.126 but the external ip is 192.168.213.14).

ibook_g4:~ Nate$ traceroute 10.60.20.1
traceroute to 10.60.20.1 (10.60.20.1), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 rout1.lundellnet.com (192.168.2.126) 6.307 ms 11.138 ms 2.482 ms
2 192.168.213.1 (192.168.213.1) 59.787 ms 26.042 ms 22.112 ms
3 10.60.20.1 (10.60.20.1) 54.039 ms 10.768 ms 12.209 ms

and here to reach the 10 ip it goes through the gateway that serves my subnet(192.168.213.1). My friends gateway is 192.168.238.1(not his router but the gateway that serves his subnet) the 192.168.2xx.xxx ips are not behind our routers they are apart of the ISPs network. I do thank you for your help

and I hope that helps.

Spazo · Post by **Spazo** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:20 pm

Would I need to put the router in Router mode insted of Gateway mode and then if I did that how would I get it to talk to the internet?

ErikD · Post by **ErikD** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:22 pm

The bottom line is those are not internet routable IPs. Doesn't matter that your on the same ISP and all, once you get far enough away from your router (into real internet IP space) then all private IP stuff will be dropped.

Spazo · Post by **Spazo** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:32 pm

I understand that. All this comes down to is that im trying to route over one giant lan. thats all this is its not going out into the internet. my router WAN port is just plugged into a giant wireless lan.

singularity2006 · Post by **singularity2006** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:11 pm

Spazo wrote:I understand that. All this comes down to is that im trying to route over one giant lan. thats all this is its not going out into the internet. my router WAN port is just plugged into a giant wireless lan.

you cannot route yourself. That is handled by the ISP. Get yourself a new modem and/or router and setup port forwarding. There is no way an ISP can block port forwarding as this technology applies only internally on your network and is transparent to the ISP.

However, now that you mentioned being plugged into a wimax network, this is a totally different thing and requires a separate set of hardware. I've never seen a router able to acquire IP's wirelessly and generally require being plugged in through the WAN port via ethernet. You might be able to mod a linksys pocket travelrouter for this purpose.

g'luck.

singularity2006 · Post by **singularity2006** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:23 pm

Just a thought - have you tried plugging a router into your current modem/router that the ISP provided you? There should be a way to disable routing function on the ISP router and set it to a connection only unit so your aftermarket router can do the work and allow you to perform correct portforwarding.

Spazo · Post by **Spazo** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:29 pm

Right on time!!! When you said that i just got done doing that and it works perfectly!

can ping back and forth and just sent a 10meg file! Thanks a lot!!!

Spazo · Post by **Spazo** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:32 pm

sry I couldn't explain better. I was getting a bit mad myself but in the end it all worked out and I just want to thank all of you again. This will be great and carry many hours of networked gamin joy!!

singularity2006 · Post by **singularity2006** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:47 pm

Cool. :-)

Which wimax network are u using? And is it the free metro net or something paid? How's ur signal strength, opinion on QoS and stuff (not ethernet QoS)?

Spazo · Post by **Spazo** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:09 am

I did switch out my router like I said but I live in Kearney Nebraska. Its a wireless network but I doubt I have WiMax out here

(wish I did). uhhh sigh....