Family Upset Over Soldier's Body Arriving As Freight

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:17 pm

Bodies Sent To Families On Commercial Airliners

http://www.10news.com/news/5504608/detail.html

SAN DIEGO -- There's controversy over how the military is transporting the bodies of service members killed overseas, 10News reported.

A local family said fallen soldiers and Marines deserve better and that one would think our war heroes are being transported with dignity, care and respect. It said one would think upon arrival in their hometowns they are greeted with honor. But unfortunately, the family said that is just not the case.

Dead heroes are supposed to come home with their coffins draped with the American flag -- greeted by a color guard.

But in reality, many are arriving as freight on commercial airliners -- stuffed in the belly of a plane with suitcases and other cargo.
Click here to find out more!

John Holley and his wife, Stacey, were stunned when they found out the body of their only child, Matthew John Holley, who died in Iraq last month, would be arriving at Lindbergh Field as freight.

Matthew was a medic with the 101st Airborne unit and died on Nov. 15.

"When someone dies in combat, they need to give them due respect they deserve for (the) sacrifice they made," said John Holley.

John and Stacey Holley, who were both in the Army, made some calls, and with the help of U.S. Sen. Barbara Boxer, Matthew was greeted with honor and respect.

"Our familiarity with military protocol and things of that sort allowed us to kind of put our foot down -- we're not sure other parents have that same knowledge," said Stacey Holley.

The Holleys now want to make sure every fallen hero gets the proper welcome.

The bodies of dead service members arrive at Dover Air Force Base.

From that point, they are sent to their families on commercial airliners.

Reporters from 10News called the Defense Department for an explanation. A representative said she did not know why this is happening.

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:20 pm

It's called keeping the returning body count low. From early onset of the war the Bush admin. has not allowed coffins to be draped with the U.S. flag, etc.
Which is tradition. This way people do not get alarmed at the real body count, which is probably more around 20,000 than 2000.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:21 pm

knightmare wrote:which is probably more around 20,000 than 2000.

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:22 pm

Prey521 wrote:

why hide the actual number of troops dead, then Prey?

Kip Patterson · Post by **Kip Patterson** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:26 pm

Nonsense.

If you have documentation, let's have it.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:26 pm

knightmare wrote:why hide the actual number of troops dead, then Prey?

This is like all the conspiracy theory idiots and the plane that DIDN'T hit the Pentagon. If a lot more soldiers were dead, we would know because the families would be coming out the woodworks.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:31 pm

I have no doubt that there are more dead than are reported. However 20,000 is a bit much, as Prey said, eventually some of the families would emerge.

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:36 pm

I said probably, as the figure is more inflated than 2000, how the heck would i know if there are 20000 exactly???

My whole point was it's fishy is all.

But I really wish some of these Bush's lovers would get off their knees,
get some air, and look around at the decline of the country while he has been in office.

Meggie · Post by **Meggie** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:36 pm

i dont think the numbers are that skewed. but its true about bush not allowing coffins to be draped with the american flag or to be visible to the public. I think its a right of a servicemember to have both of those as a respect for his sacrafice.

by the way, u dont call a member of the marines a soldier, u call them a marine. stupid reporter.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:37 pm

We don't know how many are dead because they won't release the numbers. Those numbers that are available are from a Humanitarian group and they don't include the soldiers who died after they were transported to hospital overseas and died from their wounds (Like to Ramstein)

Wether its a conspiracy or not...when the soldiers that died for their country and are treated in such a way, it just goes to prove what a crock of **** this administration is when they sit there and tell people to "Support the troops" and if you don't support the war you are not supporting the troops, and yet they treat the soldiers bodies like common parcels. pffft. Stick up for them all you want. Thats far from patriotic.

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:37 pm

Prey521 wrote:we would know because the families would be coming out the woodworks.

This is a start. About 50 dead from my city alone....., hmm 50 states
do the math--- that is 2500 if it is only 50 from each state...

come out of the matrix Prey

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:39 pm

There were pictures not too long ago that were leaked to the press of flag drapped coffins.

Too busy to look for a link of the story but hey....I don't think that tradition has been axed.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:40 pm

downhill wrote:There were pictures not too long ago that were leaked to the press of flag drapped coffins.

Too busy to look for a link of the story but hey....I don't think that tradition has been axed.

Yeah I saw it too. Loading onto a plane. Bunch of bu**** is all it was.

Meggie · Post by **Meggie** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:41 pm

we havent had 50 die from my state, closer to 25.

i know because i got to read off all the names of our dead servicemembers at a somber tree lighting ceremony (on my birthday of all days) last week.

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:42 pm

downhill wrote:There were pictures not too long ago that were leaked to the press of flag drapped coffins.

Too busy to look for a link of the story but hey....I don't think that tradition has been axed.

? Out of the 50 from my area on the news, none of them had a flag draped.

And you just had a reply from someone who is a member in active duty.

Meggie · Post by **Meggie** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:45 pm

knightmare wrote:? Out of the 50 from my area on the news, none of them had a flag draped.

And you just had a reply from someone who is a member in active duty.

i havnt seen any coffins of anyone that has died over in iraq/afghanistan.

The funeral that i did not long ago, had a flag draped over it, but only when we transported it from the funeral home to the church, and from the church to the cemetary. He was a retired officer though.

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:47 pm

Meggie wrote:we havent had 50 die from my state, closer to 25.

i know because i got to read off all the names of our dead servicemembers at a somber tree lighting ceremony (on my birthday of all days) last week.

well granted Ft.Knox is down the street from me...

Ft Campbell, I don't know the numbers from the 101st there..

Kip Patterson · Post by **Kip Patterson** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:49 pm

I hate Bush with every fiber in my body, but unless you can produce some reasonable evidence that:

There are more dead than are being officially reported.

Dead are not being returned to Dover with respect - that is, in flag-draped coffins,

this thread will be pulled.

Undocumented bull**** is as inappropriate a way to treat our dead as what you are suggesting.

Meggie · Post by **Meggie** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:50 pm

knightmare wrote:well granted Ft.Knox is down the street from me...

Ft Campbell, I don't know the numbers from the 101st there..

remember this, if a soldier is from connecticut, but is stationed at ft campbell... we both count them as a loss for our state.

might be why your numbers seem a little off.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:51 pm

Kip Patterson wrote:I hate Bush with every fiber in my body

ROOFLES! Watch it gramps, don't get an aneurysm now

Meggie · Post by **Meggie** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:52 pm

Kip Patterson wrote:I hate Bush with every fiber in my body, but unless you can produce some reasonable evidence that:

There are more dead than are being officially reported.

Dead are not being returned to Dover with respect - that is, in flag-draped coffins,

this thread will be pulled.

Undocumented bull**** is as inappropriate a way to treat our dead as what you are suggesting.

thats bull****, you cant pull this thread because it doesnt agree with your views kip.

If your going to pull a thread because one side doesnt have solid evidence, you better pull any thread that has to do with almost any political or religious debate.

ScottE · Post by **ScottE** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:53 pm

Meggie wrote: by the way, u dont call a member of the marines a soldier, u call them a marine. stupid reporter.

? The kid that died that they were reporting on was in the 101st.

Meggie · Post by **Meggie** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:56 pm

ScottE wrote:? The kid that died that they were reporting on was in the 101st.

oops ur right, i saw this line

"A local family said fallen soldiers and Marines deserve better and that one would think our war heroes are being transported with dignity, care and respect. "

and missed the soldier part i guess.

ScottE · Post by **ScottE** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:58 pm

Meggie wrote:thats bull****, you cant pull this thread because it doesnt agree with your views kip.

If your going to pull a thread because one side doesnt have solid evidence, you better pull any thread that has to do with almost any political or religious debate.

I think Kip was taking issue with knightmare suggesting that the DOD is somehow keeping hidden several thousand bodies.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:58 pm

downhill wrote:There were pictures not too long ago that were leaked to the press of flag drapped coffins.

Too busy to look for a link of the story but hey....I don't think that tradition has been axed.

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:02 pm

Kip Patterson wrote:I hate Bush with every fiber in my body, but unless you can produce some reasonable evidence that:

There are more dead than are being officially reported.

Dead are not being returned to Dover with respect - that is, in flag-draped coffins,

this thread will be pulled.

Undocumented bull**** is as inappropriate a way to treat our dead as what you are suggesting.

Tell ya what Kip,
My dad was in korea, and vietnam. If i could get you on the phone with him, he would tell you they inflate enemy body count.
Why wouldn't it be the other way around.

Pull my threads, beat me down. you have always had it in for me.
Ban me.

I wonder if phillip will reimburse me .. i just paid a couple of weeks ago for a 3 monther.

I can go to a free forum and get harrassed by a mod.

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:03 pm

btw Merry Christmas

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:05 pm

[rises from knees] What decline?

[/back on knees]

Kip Patterson · Post by **Kip Patterson** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:06 pm

I am only objecting to your irresponsible and nonsensical suggestion that 20,000 have been killed in Iraq.

It has nothing to do with disagreeing with you - It has to do with total irresponsibility and lack of respect to the soldiers and this forum.

Meggie · Post by **Meggie** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:07 pm

ScottE wrote:I think Kip was taking issue with knightmare suggesting that the DOD is somehow keeping hidden several thousand bodies.

either way, why pull the thread for such a stupid reason?

i could say that i think that velveta cheese is the cheesiest, or that i think bush is a bad president... either way, i wouldn expect my thread to be pulled because i couldnt back up my point with sufficient evidence.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:09 pm

well this article talks about democrats that are charging that the Pentagon is low-balling the numbers as well.

PENTAGON LOWBALLING U.S. DEATHS & CASUALTIES
Iraq is George Bush's waterloo and he is dragging all of us with him into this black hole of spin, deceit, hubris, humiliation and heartache
by Allen L Roland, Ph.D

http://www.opednews.com

There is now more evidence that the Pentagon has been lowballing its count of the dead and wounded in Iraq ~ which would represent the ultimate spin and deceit of this morally corrupt administration.

There has always been the strong rumor that the Pentagon only counts those killed in combat in its daily death totals . So if a soldier was wounded and died in transit to a hospital or in that hospital ~ he would not be counted in that daily death total.

As such, the total number of combat deaths in Iraq would be closer to 8000 versus the currently published 2150.

That rumor seems now to be substantiated by a group of House democrats who are now claiming that the pentagon is seriously underreporting the true extent of casualties by close to 25,000 .

Mark Benjamin, Salon, investigates these charges and files these explosive findings.

Allen L Roland

INCALCUABLE PAIN

The Pentagon is underreporting the number of American soldier casualties in Iraq, say House Democrats.

By Mark Benjamin / SALON.COM

Dec. 10, 2005 | A group of seven House Democrats wrote President Bush this week, accusing the Pentagon of underreporting casualties in Iraq.

It's a shocking charge. The letter writers argue that Pentagon casualty reports show only a sliver of the injuries, mostly physical ones from bombs or bullets. But war doesn't work like that, the Democrats declare, adding that the reports skip a horrible panoply of accidents, illness, disease and mental trauma.

"We are concerned that that the figures that were released to the public by your administration do not accurately represent the true toll that this war has taken on the American people," the group wrote Bush on Dec. 7. The Dems are right.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne ... lling_.htm

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:09 pm

Meggie wrote:either way, why pull the thread for such a stupid reason?

i could say that i think that velveta cheese is the cheesiest, or that i think bush is a bad president... either way, i wouldn expect my thread to be pulled because i couldnt back up my point with sufficient evidence.

Lies, Kraft is the cheesiest! Pull this thread now!!!

Meggie · Post by **Meggie** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:09 pm

Kip Patterson wrote:I am only objecting to your irresponsible and nonsensical suggestion that 20,000 have been killed in Iraq.

It has nothing to do with disagreeing with you - It has to do with total irresponsibility and lack of respect to the soldiers and this forum.

why would soldiers take offense to someone saying that they think more have died than have been reported?

loop2kil · Post by **loop2kil** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:09 pm

knightmare wrote:.....
But I really wish some of these Bush's lovers would get off their knees,
get some air, and look around at the decline of the country while he has been in office.

The decline of the country did not start with Bush...There's been a steady decline for quite some time, but I'm sure everything before and after Bush will fall on one person's shoulders. Someone would have to be quite narrow minded to think the sun rises and fall's because of one person. Bush, as with all presidents, is just the puppet we see....not picking on you knightmare but it's just something to consider.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:10 pm

loop2kil wrote:The decline of the country did not start with Bush...There's been a steady decline for quite some time, but I'm sure everything before and after Bush will fall on one person's shoulders. Someone would have to be quite narrow minded to think the sun rises and fall's because of one person. Bush, as with all presidents, is just the puppet we see....not picking on you knightmare but it's just something to consider.

You bothered to reply to that comment with a sensible reply? BAH!

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:12 pm

Kip Patterson wrote:I am only objecting to your irresponsible and nonsensical suggestion that 20,000 have been killed in Iraq.

It has nothing to do with disagreeing with you - It has to do with total irresponsibility and lack of respect to the soldiers and this forum.

Buddy, I was raised by one...
Don't tell me i don't respect soldiers.
Bottom line is, you don't/never have liked me..
anytime you get a chance, you break my back.

Never tell me I don't respect soldiers, i have spent most of my life around them.

That is total B.S.--

loop2kil · Post by **loop2kil** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:14 pm

Prey521 wrote:You bothered to reply to that comment with a sensible reply? BAH!

well i haven't posted anything in quite a while so i was getting worried my account might get pulled and i wouldn't be able to watch anymore

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:14 pm

I guess some of you forgot about those pictures that the Pentagon freaked out about that were released with all the coffins being loaded onto the plane a while back. The government for some unknown reasons is not releasing our own loss numbers. He did however release the dead Iraqi numbers which makes absolutely no sense. We should be more concerned with our own. That should tell you a little something about how they operate.

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:16 pm

loop2kil wrote:well i haven't posted anything in quite a while so i was getting worried my account might get pulled and i wouldn't be able to watch anymore

How ironic, I posted, and yet i guess my account will be pulled...

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:18 pm

loop2kil wrote:The decline of the country did not start with Bush...There's been a steady decline for quite some time, but I'm sure everything before and after Bush will fall on one person's shoulders. Someone would have to be quite narrow minded to think the sun rises and fall's because of one person. Bush, as with all presidents, is just the puppet we see....not picking on you knightmare but it's just something to consider.

True, there was Reagan, Bush sr...... nah, your right it is the sign of the times.
I just can't understand why intelligent people on this forum, back him.