OK back to some bf'42 problems....defining "Camping"....need everyone's thoughts.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:52 pm

So last night I'm cruising in a troop transport, someone I didn't recognize hops in with me. Col Lingus. We're on that Alaskan map. I drive into the back of the enemy base, see an Apache, and decide I want it. So I pull up, and begin running towards it. Some enemy guy spawns, or was already standing there, either way, we shot at each other...I managed to win, and jumped into the Apache which I had prior decided to appropriate, took off, and went in some direction towards whatever other flag needed help.

Within seconds, whoever I shot started crying about "Base Camper, Base Ramper, Camper..waa waa...blah blah...boo hoo...etc"

So I quickly started explaining what is in my not so humble opinion actual camping, and the differences of quickly running into a base to appropriate some vehicle/craft, and move on. Camping is camping..hanging out, blasting spawners who aren't yet prepared or ready.

So whoever was doing that whining was quiet for a while...

Soon enough though, he starts complaining about someone camping....it was Col Lingus. (funny pun...LOL) At that time (last night) I didn't know who Col Lingus was. I think I read in another thread that it's UOD. So not knowing, or seeing, what was going on, after a few cries of camping form whoever this other guy was, I right clicked and sent out a warning.

Well, fast forward, or rather, to the point of my thread here, I think we tried this before back when we were running DC. To come to some agreement that we can all decide on, as to what is camping/raping, etc, what we'll allow, and what we'll not allow. Because as a whole, we should be in unity about this, especially the admins, so that we can run the server fairly, consistantly. We can't have admins with one idea of what's allowed, and others with different ideas. BF:V pretty much made the concept of base camping/base raping a thing of the past. In my opinion, the whiners had not a leg to stand on in their whining. But now that we're back to bf'42/DC, that has some levels with uncapable flags, well, we're stuck with it.

So I'm going to put forth in my usual not so humble opinion...what my thoughts are. Camping...the traditional meaning back in the earliest days, was to stand behind a spawn pad with a one shot-one kill weapon, and blast the defenseless victom in the back the first second they spawn. When one spawned in those games, you couldn't move for several seconds, so you were vulnerable during that first second or two. Fast forward to todays games, similar tactics are used, but with different, more destructive weapons. Similar MO's though, find a spot where they can't get you, yet you can get them during their early vulnerable moments fresh from the spawn. Stuff like snagging a tank and sitting on the fuel pad...keeping yourself in a constant state of repair while you mow down spawners. Actions like these, where you secure yourself in a spot inside the enemy base soley for the purpose mowing down spawners.

That said....here's what I think is acceptable!

Dashing into the enemy base for the purposes of A) Appropriating (stealing) a vehicle/craft for yourself...which you will quickly depart in, or B) Sabatoging vehicles/crafts, via mines, TNT, etc, then departing. Basically in and out within a short amount of time.

Sniping I from outside the base I don't mind either. If people decide to stand there at the runway and pick their nose for a few minutes waiting for a plane/heli, then a bullet in the head is fine by me.

Strafing from the air is fine by me too. Again, most of the casualties of air strafes are the ones who insist on doing nothing else but waiting for a plane anyways. A few good players will manage to use their heads, and try to fight off the planes with AA or something.

Shelling from a distance...fine by me.

Finding a blend of the above is the hard part. What did we have before, the so called "30 second rule"? Hard to enforce...I know. Easier to simply state "Absolutely no tresspassing onto uncapable bases on ground, or by air..no fly zone" But honestly I'm not crazy about having "nerf football" rules like that. Ends up being "where do you draw the line where you can't get near the enemy base?"

Anyways, those are my thoughts, certainly subject to debate. I'm not saying my thoughts are cast in stone and have to be how the server is run. What is everyone elses?

Oh, and how about adding some vanilla bf'42 maps into the rotation...running them as vanilla bf'42 games? Specifically, I'm digging playing the 100% tank map...Aberdeen. Some excellent tank battles!

HawaiianGhost · Post by **HawaiianGhost** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:18 pm

YOSC,

Like old times in DC...I think you got the right idea in all "definitions". Isn't this how we used to do it in DC anyway??

Anyway, I'm glad to announce that I will be "back in the GAME" in a couple of months. And I can't wait to play with you guys/gals again

Right now I am stationed at Goodfellow AFB, Tx (at the library using their PC). Waiting on my household stuff to arrive from Europe, I just hope my "Beast(s)" will make the trip alright and be up and running when I finally get them. I probably need to hone my Apache skills a little though. Hope you guys are still into it all when I finally get running again.

BTW, anyone near my area?? ---San Angelo, Tx----?

~'~[SG]HGhost~'~

AceFireball · Post by **AceFireball** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:25 pm

yes Col Lingus is UOD, but that guy wouldnt shut up...he wud have been closer to the "no tardlike behavior" policy than UOD he was jus bein an ass. Just like another guy I was with in a shoot out, I shot him and he didnt hit me at all. So he starts complaining that im hacking since, of course, he is the best player in all of the world. Stuff like that, I think, is trashy and shouldnt be put up with.

I agree mostly with what you said above, only gripes being:
-Snipers that are aimed at a small uncapable, like the one on lost village or something like the DCX training, where they can see the whole base and hit someone easy is really frustrating if your waiting for a ride. I know you cant dictate what bases u can and cant snipe, but there must be SOME soultion

-When you dont have any flags, and the other team automatically goes for uncap with Bombings, Constant Helo Strafes, Snipers, and Armor, instead of playing defense like they ought to and be paitent. You cant fight them all of AND get bases....makes it tough, I know its supposed to be war but damn we cant take all the fun outta it. I have seen this ALOTTTTTT more in DCX for some odd reason, could be more tards or faster gameplay

i want to play somemore DCX maps or newer maps instead of just the same ol same ol DC maps, they just get borin to me i guess

I know Im asking alot, but Im jus puttin in MHO

thechemgeek · Post by **thechemgeek** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:52 pm

i agree with just about everything said so far. just put it in the server messages as well, letting those who don't read the forum know that base camping is not allowed, but the 30 sec rule is in effect.

also, i like the idea of having a rule that the uncapable flag point can't be full forced attack if they have at least one other spawn point. but once that last cap is taken, everyone should be able to head towards the uncapable, not to camp, but to contain...and win the map. the opposing side needs to have that one or two players break out and get a spawn point...if they can't they lose...and that's the game. owned.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:05 pm

Cat,

Yes, I'm Col Lingus.

Here is exactly the deal from last night on Alaska.

Me and Ace were playing D on our flag which we capped right next to the American uncappable (btw, our flag had no health and no ammo). That dude...forget his name, he kept spawning in his uncappable and getting the Apache for one reason only...to come to our flag and blast us...not to cap it...he had every chance but instead he wanted to rack up kills. Knowing that we had the map split teamwise...me and Ace were not going to let him take the flag...so we pulverized him over and over but it took many deaths of our own to do so. So I decided to go to the base with a tank and whack all the aircraft there to force him to spawn at a different flag. He actually complained while I was at the end of the runway blasting away at his precious Apache.(meaning, I was allowing him to spawn and live) I was NOT after him.....I was after his aircraft. I know how it feels to be spawn camped so I don't do it. But I will take out your aircraft, tanks, etc. You have every opportunity to run away or fight. He chose to stand there and blast me with his RPG's so I let him have it a few times but I was not gonna let him get back in the Apache just so he can come over and spawn camp us. He was the one spawn camping. I was simply evening the playing field.

As far as rules go...well....I don't know. I personally know when to pull back and let them breathe a little. That's because I have ethics and I'm there to have fun. It's no fun to base rape or spawn camp because if you do it long enough...the other team disconnects and goes home. What fun is an empty server? That's what I do if I'm getting base raped...disconnect. You wanna have fun base raping...do it by yourself

Base raping might be ok for tournament play when there is really something at stake but with our server, the only thing at stake is fun. I don't want to jeopardize that aspect of it.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:13 pm

No sweat UOD, not asking you to defend your actions. Just reminded me that we have to lay down the rules, since I've forgotten how bf'42 is open to camping, etc, and having to have the rules announced.

And I have to get some rules in the auto-announce before we do any enforcing. It's only fair to announce the rules...even though everyone doesn't read them (referring to outsiders here)

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:23 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:No sweat UOD, not asking you to defend your actions. Just reminded me that we have to lay down the rules, since I've forgotten how bf'42 is open to camping, etc, and having to have the rules announced.

And I have to get some rules in the auto-announce before we do any enforcing. It's only fair to announce the rules...even though everyone doesn't read them (referring to outsiders here)

'

Geez....it seems we have our tardfests back now lol.

Tonight was brutal.

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:25 am

no matter what sort of policy we set, there will always be people that complain, whine, whatever. I say deal with it. If a flag is uncappable, then deal with it. It might take so thinking and strategy, but you can get out and deal with rapeists if you try hard enough.

I think that either there has to be a strict "no one allowed in uncappable bases EVER" policy, or a "deal with it noob" policy. The grey area/circumstantial idea just never seems to please everyone.

I prefer the latter but will support whatever is decided upon

sito · Post by **sito** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:52 am

Everything should be fair game. Maybe stay off the spawn pads. Besides that, there should be no limitations to tactics. BFV was pure all out kill. The more I think about it, the more I realize that's the way it should be.

As much as I hate it, I'll never bitch about a sniper pinging me off for standing still or a chopper for repeatedly killing me as I respawn. Respawn at a different base or if that's the only 1, your team sucks! Oh well.

The old DC rules were fine. 30 secs or whatever. Keeps us all from blowing a gasket, myself included.

Grimson · Post by **Grimson** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:00 am

I don't play this DCX ame but BFV has taught me some things. Let ppl camp but like Sito said no repair pad camping. It's a war game nothing is fair and there will always be ppl that complain.

It's a FPS and ppl should accept that they are going to die. If the game spawned you in only one place and someone was camping that one spot then it would be unfair but since it spawns you in diff. places you just have to wait until you get a spawn that you can kill them from.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:29 pm

sitosterol wrote:Everything should be fair game. Maybe stay off the spawn pads. Besides that, there should be no limitations to tactics. BFV was pure all out kill. The more I think about it, the more I realize that's the way it should be.

As much as I hate it, I'll never bitch about a sniper pinging me off for standing still or a chopper for repeatedly killing me as I respawn. Respawn at a different base or if that's the only 1, your team sucks! Oh well.

The old DC rules were fine. 30 secs or whatever. Keeps us all from blowing a gasket, myself included.

I disagree. There are numerous other factors which come into play here Sito.

First and foremost is that the team being decimated has a choice. To fight or to quit....but there is one other choice they have which is really a pet peeve of mine. Team friggin abandonment. Yep...I've seen some of the best players do it. Team starts getting base raped and run over....players start switching teams so they can be part of the carnage. I've been on losing teams where we had 18 friggin players...and when it was all said and done...we had 4. The other team had 20+. Is that ethical and fair? If it is..the next time we game together...and it looks like we are gonna get burnt like toast...I'll jump sides and ask you how it feels. Now of course I would not do that but I hope you see my point. Also, peoploe come in the game at different times...and when they first spawn, they see the scoreboard, and they want to be part of the winning team...so they go to that particular team. And people leave when crap like this happens as well. People just disconnect. We don't want people to disconnect dude....the ENTIRE reason for going to DCX in the first place was because all you DC fans said that it would attract more people...get more people on the server. But when we act like this.....and people quit....they rarely come back because the last taste in their mouth was BAD.

The only part I do agree with you is the rule itself. I don't think we need one...but I can't for the life of me see what motivates people to act like this which is imho...unethical. Perosnally, I think it's all about the dreaded stat. Yep....people can't stand to see their precious little name slip in the BFStats. God forbid they actually drop in the rankings.......

OH NOES....wassa me to do????? I'm no longer the ubermensch of DC.....

So that is my opinion.

Like I said before...I know when to ease up...to keep it fun for everybody.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:11 pm

well it seems to me that they have changed the repair pads somewhat in this mod, you can easily kill a tank sitting on a pad now.

i have been on both sides of the base raping deal and to me it is just part of online gaming, i mean if i get pissed off about it and am in a bad mood then i may just leave the game, but usually i like the challenge of trying to break out of there and cap a flag.

whatever rules you all decide is fine with me, just try to remember that it is only a game guys, this is supposed to be fun

but, ya the whiners kinda make me laugh sometimes, my brother gets called a chaser in TFC all the time for going after an enemy guy that has stolen his flag, i mean that is what you are supposed to do, prevent the enemy team form getting flags while capping flags for your team.

see ya on the server soon

Bandit159 · Post by **Bandit159** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:21 pm

Nice t see some monitoring and kicking of campers in your definition which sounds right on.Most,if not all servers i go to could care less how you get your kills-damn,war is hell and its too bad i never cared much for DC and have played it like 2 hours total or i'd come get newbed by you guys

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:25 pm

I think in a game such as BF1942 an d its mods campiung and everything else should be legal. I mean this is a war game right? There are no rules in war.. kill the enemy... thats it. just my two cents - JOe

AceFireball · Post by **AceFireball** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:22 am

Joe wrote:I think in a game such as BF1942 an d its mods campiung and everything else should be legal. I mean this is a war game right? There are no rules in war.. kill the enemy... thats it. just my two cents - JOe

yes but have u had to play on the recivieng end of it?

UOD- HELL YES! People who join the winning team piss me off to no end, I mean what a ***** tactic....I usually try to join the losing team unless the other team has less players

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:20 pm

Joe wrote:I think in a game such as BF1942 an d its mods campiung and everything else should be legal. I mean this is a war game right? There are no rules in war.. kill the enemy... thats it. just my two cents - JOe

Not trying to piss you off or anything but yes...there are rules of war. They are called rules of engagement and enforceable by the Geneva Convention. If you break them...you could go before a war crimes tribunal like Hitler and Hussein.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:26 pm

UOD wrote:Not trying to piss you off or anything but yes...there are rules of war. They are called rules of engagement and enforceable by the Geneva Convention. If you break them...you could go before a war crimes tribunal like Hitler and Hussein.

piss me off? never... and i already knew that.. just i kinda doubt the geneva convention says no ambushing/camping or you will be kicked from the warfield.

i really dont care though.. i just like to play the game.. camper or no camper.

-joe

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:38 pm

[quote="Joe"]piss me off? never... and i already knew that.. just i kinda doubt the geneva convention says no ambushing/camping or you will be kicked from the warfield. ]

and that is my point....it's just a game with some flexible user defined rules.

Like I said up above....I'm not against the no rules idea. Hey...I got crap the other night for ramming helos mid air. Why? I told the guy after he asked if it was demolition derby that he was good...too good for me to take down with straight shootin...so I constantly rammed his helo until he gave up and brought the fight to the ground. Suicide bombing is a tactic of war. I used it to great effect. But I paid the price for that as well.

I guess my beef is when peeps get overun..they switch teams to avoid the ass beating.....for me...that is just wrong. Not against the rules per se but it sure is a cowardly tactic.