making inmates/prisoners pay for their room & board...... right or wrong?

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 7:02 pm

personally, i think it's wrong. perhaps it;s due to my definition of punishment in our society. forcing a criminal into what could be an even worse monetary standing solves nothing, IMO. there are also feelings i have regarding this that i can;t verbalize at the moment (haven't though about it long enough).

what are your opinions?

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 7:06 pm

wrong imho. they're there to be punished and it's punishment enough.. shrug.

Amro

Set · Post by **Set** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 7:13 pm

But why do Us tax payers have to pay for ther punishment
they did the crime they should do the time and pay for it

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 7:13 pm

Originally posted by Amro
wrong imho. they're there to be punished and it's punishment enough.. shrug.

Amro

On the other side of the coin, why should us taxpayers (if you're old enough to pay taxes) suffer/be punished by having to foot the bill for inmates?

I don't see why forcing them to do more work "wouldn't be" punishment. At least get some sort of value out of them.

*edit...just noticed Set posted same thought at the same time*

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 7:23 pm

IMHO they should not only pay their own way, they should pay for the jails, gaurds etc. Without criminals, we wouldn't need any of those.

A drug dealer, or a thief makes a lot more money than I do, and lives high off the hog until he's caught. Then I, and other tax payers, have to pay his way.

Not right IMHO

There are other things I'd rather see tax dollars going to. Let the criminals pay for their own upkeep. If they have nothing to pay with, then let some other criminal pay for them.

Put every dime, every asset of all these people own into a pool, and pay for the whole shebang

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 7:32 pm

hmm.... well, i think we (taxpayers) should have to pay for incarcerating inmates because the system we have here is of our creation. we determined the laws that were broken by the "criminal", we are deciding what their punishment is, and we will have to live with the inmates when they are realeased.

and on a side note, the reason our justice system/penal system is so terribly burdoned is because of the set of drug laws we have in place. 75% - 80% of the prison population are incarcerated due to some kind of drug offense. is it a moral crime to get high? IMO, no.... so, if we want to come up with laws that can imprison a person for say.... having some extacy or marijuana or pain killers, then i feel we should feel the burdon of (forcably, i might add) imposing our morals on that section of our society.

again, just my opinion. and probably a wee bit biased one at that.

minir · Post by **minir** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 7:33 pm

Hi Faust

I have no problem with it at all Faust. There is no just reason that society need be responsible for the care and feeding of Criminals.

They chose to put themselves into the situation & therefore should be held responsible for the costs involved.

I believe that work done by Inmates should in part be given to the State for their maintenance.

In Canada as i believe in many parts of the USA Prisoners can if inclined gain access to Higher learning, or Trades paid for by the State. Many if they choose come out better equipped than when they went in. Nothing wrong in that, however like a Student Loan payback should be part of the equation.

The problem when a crime is committed Society loses, then loses again by having to Support the very Criminal who cost them in the first place.

It costs to gain a Judgment against the Criminal, in some cases several times, then the ongoing cost of Health Care, Education, Nutrition and of course the people involved in ensuring he stays put. Seems only fair to me that the Criminal be held responsible for some of these costs.

Just my opinion for what its worth.

regards

minir

RoundEye · Post by **RoundEye** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 7:34 pm

They sould pay something. But I'm not for the old style chain gangs, where they have to be chained together smashing bolders into pebbles all day. maybe learn a trade or something that will help them when they get out of prison. hell, I don't even mind my taxes paying for them to get an education. Lack of education is probably what got a lot of them there in the first place. I think a GED should be a requirement for paroll in fact.

cybotron r_9 · Post by **cybotron r_9** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 8:11 pm

Ok that's fine if you don't want them to pay their way. Then we can just take away their Air Conditioning, their TV, their workout equipment, their law libraries and any thing else that is a luxury to a lot of people in this country.

20 yrs. ago when i was living in my first apartment I had no AC, no cable TV and definately no workout room filled with equipment.

Yet i had to work and pay for my room and board and i wasn't even a criminal.

what is so god awful about having to pay for something nowadays....i just don't get this BS sympathetic attitude towards criminals.

BaLa · Post by **BaLa** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 8:13 pm

criminals have money?

I think they should make them work (for free) meaning the products they produce are sold and it's used for the prisons staff and such..

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 8:34 pm

what is so god awful about having to pay for something nowadays....i just don't get this BS sympathetic attitude towards criminals.

not everybody in prison is a criminal (of coursre it depends on how you define the word). if everybody who was in prison were people who had created victims, then i would think differently about it.

The_Lurker · Post by **The_Lurker** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 8:37 pm

One thing i think alot of people seem to forget is, the majority of these "convicts" are going to be set free one day, and must function in society again.

i suppose what i'm trying to say is, those that seem to have the potential to be re-abilitated should be, as much as possible. and those that cannot, (repeat offenders and violent criminals) should be made to pay until they are dead, and be kept locked away.

if some one is down on their luck and makes a stupid choice, and ends up in the slammer, i think we as a society should do all we humanly can to help them not repeat there mistake. i don''t think we (society) should continue to "kick" them while they're down.

It's just not a black and white issue. then again niether is life.

TL

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 8:38 pm

Originally posted by Faust
not everybody in prison is a criminal (of coursre it depends on how you define the word). if everybody who was in prison were people who had created victims, then i would think differently about it.

On that note, I guess it's how one describes a criminal. When you asked the question, my mind went right to the hard core criminals, serving life sentences for multiple murders, stuff like that. Not the person who got popped for drug possesion on the first time note.

Edit....just noted what Lurker wrote, he posted when I was typing the above...and I agree with what he said.

torsten · Post by **torsten** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 9:00 pm

Originally posted by Faust
hmm.... well, i think we should have to pay for incarcerating inmates because the system we have here is of our creation. we determined the laws that were broken by the "criminal", we are deciding what their punishment is, and we will have to live with the inmates when they are realeased.

.........not everybody in prison is a criminal (of coursre it depends on how you define the word). if everybody who was in prison were people who had created victims, then i would think differently about it.

well said. I'm glad some people can look at this rationally instead of just giving in to emotional impulses.

Originally posted by YeOldeStonecat
On that note, I guess it's how one describes a criminal. When you asked the question, my mind went right to the hard core criminals, serving life sentences for multiple murders, stuff like that. Not the person who got popped for drug possesion on the first time note.

That's the trouble with how a lot of laws are made. Politicians spout demagogic language about "criminals," lumping everyone together, and people respond with a hateful attitude. The "kick them while they're down" attitude that Lurker mentioned seems to dominate every discussion you see about "crime." People are too ready to divide them into 2 categories..... the perfect "us" and the evil despicable "them." I mean look at the way people respond to the term "sex offender."

zooner · Post by **zooner** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 9:01 pm

I think this would be horrible.

Think of the poor in mississippi, how they are herded into classrooms and urged to plead guilty by a single lawyer covering 30 people because there is no way a proper defense can be afforded.

Or the 17 year old who cant get a job because walmart has crushed all the local retailers, selling a couple of joints and gets tried as an adult and serving a felony conviction.

If these people are forced to pay and have wages garnashed, they simply wont work in the legal sense.

CiscoKid · Post by **CiscoKid** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 9:05 pm

My dad's worked in a prision since January 1995. These inmates have it pretty easy, at least where he's at. They get their three meals a day and two hours minimum recreation a day. In California, inmates get better medical care then MANY hard working tax payers. One story I've heard from my dad was where a guy had suffered injuries from running frm the cops after killing his girl freind as she tried to escape from him. He was burned up pretty good in a car wreck. The STATE foot the bill for skin graphs and rehab so that it's now hard to tell he was even burned as bad as he was.

Is this right? I say no, should inmates have to pay for their room and board? I say yes!

Most prisions have different programs to teach inmates a new trade and such. All inmates should be required to aid in the up keep of the prision, mopping floors, cooking, cleaning, stuff like that.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 9:06 pm

For violent criminals, I can careless what happens to them.

For drug dealers I can careless what happens to them.

For the drug users who get arrested they should not be in jail but in a rehab.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 9:13 pm

I have mixed feelings on this. Depends on what the work really is I suppose.

By the way...for those who believe that criminals should be locked up with no tv..no library no nothing...and expect that will stop repeat offenders......it's being tried right now in Arizona I believe...a county jail in tents...in an area where it stinks to high heaven..the repeat rate is still the same as it was and the norm for the rest of the country.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/

Maybe it's a genetic thing...........................Ashcroft will be asking for sterilization..........

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 9:53 pm

earn your keep & pull your weight so that you will learn how to get by without stealing.

IMO its healthy to feel that you are doing your best.

jdblitz · Post by **jdblitz** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:04 pm

Ok, faust how old are you? How much did you pay last year in state taxes?

I paid A FREAKING LOT TO SUPPORT THE SYSTEM!

Yeah, I think criminals should become productive members of society, as part of their criminal rehabilitation they should start being productive to repay their debt(read debt as incurring cost of facilities, materials and man hours in the form of jails, equiptment and guards/administration) to society. I dont care if you smoke a few joints and get caught, its not minor, its not good for the economy, YOU ARE SUPPORTING DRUG DEALERS WHO ARE THE PRIMARY SOURCES OF INCOME FOR LARGER CRIME RINGS SUCH AS TERRORISTS.

Less than 1 year ago my uncle helped(read:he's policeman) on a drug bust that included several foreign nationals and was directly run by south american terrorists. The load was 100 pounds of marijuana headed into indianapolis that had been routed through chicago.

Dont tell me the kid selling a few joints isnt a criminal, where you think he got the pound of weed from? He got it from these guys. And these guys are the same people you scream about blowing up buildings and murdering indescriminately.

Don't be short sighted, try to see the big picture and how even the smallest crime affects everyone.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:06 pm

By the way...for those who believe that criminals should be locked up with no tv..no library no nothing...and expect that will stop repeat offenders......it's being tried right now in Arizona I believe...a county jail in tents...in an area where it stinks to high heaven..the repeat rate is still the same as it was and the norm for the rest of the country.

Sherrif Joe Arpaio if a f'in self-rightious a-hole. i hope one day he will seek the compassion of others and gets nothing in return.

jdblitz · Post by **jdblitz** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:09 pm

Originally posted by Faust
Sherrif Joe Arpaio if a f'in self-rightious a-hole. i hope one day he will seek the compassion of others and gets nothing in return.

Ya know what, he is self righteous because he doesnt break the law, hes paid to be righteous, SINCE WHEN IS IT A BAD THING TO NOT BE A FREAKING IMMORAL DEGENERATE?!

And as far as seeking compassion, criminals make the lives of those they victimize miserable.... Why should they not be made miserable?

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:12 pm

Ok, faust how old are you?

older than you are. don;t even try and open that can of worms.

I paid A FREAKING LOT TO SUPPORT THE SYSTEM!

so did i. doesnt mean i agree with it. as a matter of fact, i don't. but what choice do i have?

Dont tell me the kid selling a few joints isnt a criminal, where you think he got the pound of weed from? He got it from these guys. And these guys are the same people you scream about blowing up buildings and murdering indescriminately.

the kid's not a criminal. a law-breaker?... yes. criminal?.... no (IMO, of course. you obviosly see it differently). the reason there is so much organized crime behind drugs is because we have made it illegal, not because it's wrong. as with prohabition, if we were to decriminalize drugs, organized crime would (for the most part) no longer be attached to that as it;s form of income.

64bit · Post by **64bit** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:15 pm

No but they should have to pay for their edumaction. I agree with what someone else said that a education should be mandatory for those spending more that two years inside. State Prison is full of ignorant people that are poor. The jobs you work in prison usually dont produce anything marketable. I realize some places do use the resources around them to produce and sell things but this is not the norm at least not in ohio. Its all laundry and cleaning and some trade teaching but not a 'factory production" sort of thing. I also think there needs to be a little toughing up of the joint too. Its hard for some people to fathom but alot of people live much better in the joint than when they were on the street albeit behind locked doors. Hey nigga you back again in this piece is a phrase you become very familar with in jail and prison. It may not be a deterent to not be able to smoke or watch TV or get so cut up you look like Arnold but it would be a good start. Aint no ones civil rights bein violated if they cant watch springer during count.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:16 pm

Originally posted by jdblitz
Ya know what, he is self righteous because he doesnt break the law, hes paid to be righteous, SINCE WHEN IS IT A BAD THING TO NOT BE A FREAKING IMMORAL DEGENERATE?!

And as far as seeking compassion, criminals make the lives of those they victimize miserable.... Why should they not be made miserable?

Wow......feelings just a tad on the strong side?

It's a county jail........and as such, isn't filled with murders and rapists......and I really doubt that there isn't anyone reading this thread who hasn't screwed up at one time or another. Part of the difference being...............maybe you just didn't get caught.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:19 pm

Ya know what, he is self righteous because he doesnt break the law, hes paid to be righteous, SINCE WHEN IS IT A BAD THING TO NOT BE A FREAKING IMMORAL DEGENERATE?

no, he's self-rightious because he's self-rightious. it's a character trait that supercedes him being payed or because he follows the laws the majority have put in place.

not all laws concern right and wrong.

and as far as the caps go? you know, yelling will not change my morals or level of compassion for other people. are you saying that all people who don't agree with you are degenrates?

jdblitz · Post by **jdblitz** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:22 pm

Originally posted by Faust
older than you are. don;t even try and open that can of worms.

so did i. doesnt mean i agree with it. as a matter of fact, i don't. but what choice do i have?

the kid's not a criminal. a law-breaker?... yes. criminal?.... no (IMO, of course. you obviosly see it differently). the reason there is so much organized crime behind drugs is because we have made it illegal, not because it's wrong. as with prohabition, if we were to decriminalize drugs, organized crime would (for the most part) no longer be attached to that as it;s form of income.

Ok, as far as age goes, it just sounded like someone who hasn't had the responsibility of paying taxes, I appologize for the assumption.

As far as drugs being legalized, I have mixed feelings on this.. I don't do drugs, I never have. I can see how it would be good for the economy if drugs went under government supervision like alcohol, taxed, sold in stores, not by individuals... etc. This would alleviate a lot of tax evasion, and tax revenue would skyrocket. On the other hand, as it stands at an illegal status, in Indiana last year 70% of all fatal car accidents last year involved controlled substances that had been ingested illegally or illegal substances.

70% of ALL FATAL ACCIDENTS INVOLVED DRUGS! Legalizing drugs would only increase this I fear.

However this is not a legalization debate, this is a fairness debate and still I stand on my opinion that someone who is busted for pocession (which here in Indianapolis a first time pocession bust is a small fine and a bit of community service) STILL OWES A DEBT TO SOCIETY. I think that these people who are busted in public (and yes, ~90% of all non felony pocession busts are made in public as stated by local police) and are a danger to those around them as well as themselves.

jdblitz · Post by **jdblitz** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:27 pm

Originally posted by Faust
no, he's self-rightious because he's self-rightious. it's a character trait that supercedes him being payed or because he follows the laws the majority have put in place.

not all laws concern right and wrong.

and as far as the caps go? you know, yelling will not change my morals or level of compassion for other people. are you saying that all people who don't agree with you are degenrates?

Ok, well I do not know this Sherrif personally but from reading the article he (and I quote)

"You have been convicted. You're doing your time. Do your time and shut your mouth and do what you have to do."

Wants people to take responsibility for their actions and just do what they need to do to get things taken care of.

I think that current law is a matter of right and wrong, you know the law, you broke the law. Just because the law is unjust does not make it ok to break it, there are proper channels to be gone through to change laws.

As far as yelling, I don't mean to yell AT anyone, just stressing the level of my belief and frustration at these particular points.

No I don't think that everyone who does not agree with me is a degenerate, I think that people who perform immoral, unlawful and purposefully hurtful acts against society are degenerates.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:30 pm

.... and I really doubt that there isn't anyone reading this thread who hasn't screwed up at one time or another. Part of the difference being...............maybe you just didn't get caught.

amen!

No but they should have to pay for their edumaction. I agree with what someone else said that a education should be mandatory for those spending more that two years inside. State Prison is full of ignorant people that are poor. The jobs you work in prison usually dont produce anything marketable. I realize some places do use the resources around them to produce and sell things but this is not the norm at least not in ohio. Its all laundry and cleaning and some trade teaching but not a 'factory production" sort of thing. I also think there needs to be a little toughing up of the joint too. Its hard for some people to fathom but alot of people live much better in the joint than when they were on the street albeit behind locked doors. Hey nigga you back again in this piece is a phrase you become very familar with in jail and prison. It may not be a deterent to not be able to smoke or watch TV or get so cut up you look like Arnold but it would be a good start. Aint no ones civil rights bein violated if they cant watch springer during count.

by and large i would agree with you. i haven;t come to a conclusion as to paying for education/trade training. on one hand there is the fact that people on the outside would have to pay for the same kind of training or education. on the other hand, there would invariably be people who may not be able to pay for that training, but might have the tools to not maintain the criminal mentality if they had the tools to make a legitimate living in society. i would hate to see a man kept in the web because he just didnt have the money for an education.

i suppose if they were given the opportunity to work in exchange for trining it would be in their, as well as our own best interest.

and TV, coffee, cigarettes and such? well, i can;t really argue with that. there is a certain degree of psychology involved (keep the inmates somewhat complacant and they won;t be as violent to each other, and it also gives them motivation to work (in CA, the paying rate for most jobs is $.08 to $.12 an hour..... about enough to buy toiletries and a can of tobacco or coffee).

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:33 pm

Why do you want these opinions Faust? Are you revising your friends/foes list?

jdblitz · Post by **jdblitz** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:34 pm

Originally posted by downhill
Wow......feelings just a tad on the strong side?

It's a county jail........and as such, isn't filled with murders and rapists......and I really doubt that there isn't anyone reading this thread who hasn't screwed up at one time or another. Part of the difference being...............maybe you just didn't get caught.

Well, most of our county lockup consists of drug dealers, users and violent offenders (read: bar fights, domestic situations, and weapons violations).

Personally the worst thing I've ever done was probably speed. Maybe a bit of reckless driving back in my teenager years. OH well, I guess assault and battery but it was always in self defense, and I have been around people who were taking in drugs but only long enough to leave.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:39 pm

Why do you want these opinions Faust? Are you revising your friends/foes list?

lol!..... well, i took a gamble. as you probably know i avoid political and religious debates/threads as a rule. i do prefer to interact with people without including issues of personal belief/morality, as it makes it easier to just get along.

actually, i believe every poster in this thread has valid points for feeling the way they do, and i have done my best to not actually say someone's opinion was wrong. a little debate here and there is a good thing (makes us question our beliefs), and it looks as if we have managed to do that in a civil way........

with the exception of YOU, Mr. Smartypants.

*now how do i update my ignore list?* (

j/k )

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 11:00 pm

Originally posted by Faust
lol!..... well, i took a gamble. as you probably know i avoid political and religious debates/threads as a rule. i do prefer to interact with people without including issues of personal belief/morality, as it makes it easier to just get along.

actually, i believe every poster in this thread has valid points for feeling the way they do, and i have done my best to not actually say someone's opinion was wrong. a little debate here and there is a good thing (makes us question our beliefs), and it looks as if we have managed to do that in a civil way........

with the exception of YOU, Mr. Smartypants.

*now how do i update my ignore list?* ( j/k )

I agree with you. The ignore list is a powerful tool LOL!

My take on crime and punishment is a bit....different from most of you. I've learned a great deal from reading links posted by TonyT. Violent offenders need to be dealt with one way and the rest in other ways. I don't think it's wrong to make criminals pay for their keep but we have to go further than that to achieve the real goal which is to make them citiizens once again. We need to tie in real education into the prison system.....but it needs to be balanced with the taxpayers burden for providing free education to everyone. I see more schools which feel like prisons and more prisons which feel like country clubs....shouldn't they all resemble institutions of higher learning? Education is the key to everything in life. Some education you get in school and some you get in the school of hard knocks.

I say BOOKS for everybody!

minir · Post by **minir** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 11:01 pm

Hi Faust

As to be expected you make some very valid points in regards to not all being Criminals Faust.

I do agree, however when the Law states this to be a Criminal Act, it is. When one breaks that, he in effect becomes a Criminal.

Smoking a Joint is a conscious choice imho, not something that needs to be done.

Until the Law is changed it is the Law whether one agrees with it or not. We in Canada just changed the Law to allow small amounts (less than 15gms) of pot to be in your possession and not be a Criminal offence. Something that in my opinion should have been done long ago.

There are many in Jails for Drugs that would not suffer the same fate now, however at the time they broke the Law.

The earning of monies for Prisons is a problem at best as it interferes with Commercial Businesses in many cases, so is not widely popular. If certain means of creating a work environment within the Prisons is found then i do believe 50% of the monies earned should be kept by the State, the balance given to the Inmate. The percentages may vary depending on the earnings involved i suppose.

The main thing being that the Prisoners are taught that their actions have a Cost. Not just their loss of freedom but a monetary cost as well.

This in no way would cover the cost to Society, however it may awaken some to the overall cost to the Society in which they live. That in effect their actions have far ranging consequences, which most never think about.

There are many Laws i am not in agreement with & some i break i'm sure on a weekly basis, however i realize that my actions may in due course cost me. I take that risk as do most, so therefore put myself in no position to argue with the consequences should that time arrive.

As always just my opinion on a complex subject.

regards

minir

sito · Post by **sito** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 11:05 pm

I definately feel prisoners should be put to work for their incarceration costs, for a couple reasons. First, it will help pay there dept to society, and it may aid in rehabilitation (if thats possible). What is it they say about idle minds?

Garbage is becoming an issue, why not get them recycling trash and learning about it. I do demolition and you wouldn't believe how bad it's getting at the dumps and transfer stations. Garbage is getting expensive, so why not use the mostly abled bodied cons to work.

I feel rewards should be given to criminals provided they abide by the new society they've entered (prison). However, violent criminals should do their full time...period. Have a system for violent and the non-violent. Diddlers never get out!

Most non-violent criminals can be rehabilitated imo. Many have drug problems.

...and sending someone to prison for pot is dumb.

I think North America needs a legal system update.

64bit · Post by **64bit** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 11:05 pm

Originally posted by Faust
i would hate to see a man kept in the web because he just didnt have the money for an education.

i suppose if they were given the opportunity to work in exchange for trining it would be in their, as well as our own best interest.

and TV, coffee, cigarettes and such? well, i can;t really argue with that. there is a certain degree of psychology involved (keep the inmates somewhat complacant and they won;t be as violent to each other, and it also gives them motivation to work (in CA, the paying rate for most jobs is $.08 to $.12 an hour..... about enough to buy toiletries and a can of tobacco or coffee).

I totally agree and thats why I say as a conditon of parole your wages you earn get garnished to pay. If you dont pay or even get a j-o-b......back for graduate school.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 11:16 pm

Violent offenders need to be dealt with one way and the rest in other ways

copy that... err is it roger........ steve, maybe? darned military jargon

I do agree, however when the Law states this to be a Criminal Act, it is. When one breaks that, he in effect becomes a Criminal

very true, Larry. i suppose i made the mistake of bringing the word "criminal" into a semantics game. for me, the word has such a common interpretaion of "wrong" that it bothers me when it;s used loosely.

the burdon on the taxpayers is sizable to say the least, and there is no clear solution that would satisfy everybody.as you said, it;s a very complex problem.

Until the Law is changed it is the Law whether one agrees with it or not. We in Canada just changed the Law to allow small amounts (less than 15gms) of pot to be in your possession and not be a Criminal offence. Something that in my opinion should have been done long ago.

couldn;t agree with you more, Larry. the problem that i am awaiting is the inevitable pressure the US PC political thugs will try to apply to our neighbors to the north. makes me sick, actually. i guess we shal have to wait and see. it's bound to happen.

teaaememy · Post by **teaaememy** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 11:22 pm

They don't have everything taken away from them. They have basically a home, food, tv, recreation. Why not earn what you receive. Other wise you are going to get a lot of fat prisoners. Besides that most of them would probably rather work than be stuck in a cell doing nothing all day.

minir · Post by **minir** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 11:34 pm

Hi Faust

Larry. the problem that i am awaiting is the inevitable pressure the US PC political thugs will try to apply to our neighbours to the north. makes me sick, actually. i guess we shal have to wait and see. it's bound to happen.

----

It has already started from what i read. it appears however that we here are banking on our Trade & Friendship together to thwart any interference by the USA on this issue.

Hell we are getting flack from our own parties here in this regard. Never met a Politician who wouldn't take advantage of something by the opposition no matter their feelings on the matter. If they think there is gain in it...Whoa Nelly

As you stated it will take time to see what if anything happens on this one. It is possible that if it works then the USA may use it to change their own Laws in this regard. They can always cite us as causing it. Hahaha

Have a Good one Faust

regards

larry

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 11:37 pm

Just wanted to add one more thing...purpose.

Some people realize it, some realize it too late, and others never do.

I bet any amount of money that the majority of prisoners never dreamed of becoming a full time criminal. (except Lex Luthor)

We all have dreamns and ambitions but other factors in life sometimes take us away from that path to realization.

What is my purpose? How do I get there?

For whatever reason, the incarcerated lost sight of this path. We can and should get them back on track and we should do more to keep those outside the system on track before they take a wrong turn.

TonyT has made me a believer in the evils of the psychiatric trade. I don't care if you hated your father and this is why you went on a robbery spree....I want to know what your ambitions were and how we can together find a path to self fullfillment.

Purpose, education, and real leadership.

Thats what we all need!