Breaking News

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 1:13 am

The only thing that I can not get past is the fact that these two guys (Johnson & Berg) didn't resist.

Why?

If I am ever captured while deployed....I'm sorry to say, but I will not last very long because I'm gonna fight to the death as soon as they get their hands on me. they would be forced to kill me right then and there. There aint no way in hell that I'm gonna let them video tape me or make me give a statement.

In our anti-terrorism training...we are taught that there are some situations where you must fight.

I think we owe it to the public to inform them of this. If you are captured/kidnapped....resist at ALL costs because you are more than likely gonna die.

I have friends who are in special forces and they have told me time and again that if they are ever pinned down....they will call in an airstrike on their own position. Sad...but true.

I also might add that this is one of those time where one of those personal tracking implants would work beautifully. If I had one of those implants...I'd authorize the government to drop a MOAB's on my sorry ass to kill all those bastards holding me captive.

I also believe that we are not doing everything in our power to gain the release of our people. Couldn't we have staged the release of the prisoners they wanted freed and then gotten our guy back safe and sound? With all the technology and intel...I'm sure we could have at least tried. If they call our bluff....at least we can say we did everything we could.

AceFireball · Post by **AceFireball** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 1:14 am

JBKM wrote:We need to start "shock and awe" again

Hell we need to start "shock and leave no one to awe over it"/pist off

Jamie
You said it bro, they are just pu$$ies and wont respond to anything less than what they throw out themselves. A "pc" america jus cant handle this sadly

What needs to be done is almost completely out of reach im afraid

lonewolfz28 · Post by **lonewolfz28** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:44 am

UOD, you said it best.

Dang sheep to a slaughter is how I feel the US is headed sometimes. But then you have the otherside pi**ing and moaning about anything and everything that upsets their sensibilities.

When they get off their comfy behinds and expose themselves to some of this in the first person, then I'll show them a bit more respect. The US has turned into a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks debating whether we should've dropped back 10 and punted or not. Alot of commentators in comfy, airconditioned studios while the folks giving them something to babber about are risking life and limb. Meanwhile, the general public sits back and enjoys the show.

Makes me want to get an agent, hold out and bargain for a better salary sometimes.

Jamie_R · Post by **Jamie_R** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:16 am

well ... seems like we / Saudi Arabia got the a-holes that killed Johnson ..

Link

too bad they couldn't have gotten them b4 they murdered Johnson ... but at least they did get them ...

btw ... there is an extremist website claiming that this isn't true

Jamie_R · Post by **Jamie_R** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:37 am

some more info from Reuters:

RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi authorities said on Saturday they had killed al Qaeda leader Abdulaziz al-Muqrin and three other prominent militants after they beheaded U.S. hostage Paul Johnson

State television broadcast pictures of the bodies of Muqrin and the three others, saying all had been involved in the recent surge of violence against foreigners in the kingdom, and said 12 others had been arrested.

"This is a massive blow to the militants," a Saudi security source said.

The men were killed in a shootout Friday night as they tried to dispose of the body of Johnson, who was beheaded after the Saudi government refused to free Islamist prisoners by a Friday deadline set by Muqrin's cell.

Good

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:26 am

lonewolfz28 and UOD,

<bites tongue very hard>

"If you are a hammer the problems you face are all nails"

You both have the acumen and mindset of military people. Civil society is rightly aghast by what they heard and saw.

sim shalom,
david

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:28 am

Jamie_R wrote:some more info from Reuters:

RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi authorities said on Saturday they had killed al Qaeda leader Abdulaziz al-Muqrin and three other prominent militants after they beheaded U.S. hostage Paul Johnson

State television broadcast pictures of the bodies of Muqrin and the three others, saying all had been involved in the recent surge of violence against foreigners in the kingdom, and said 12 others had been arrested.

"This is a massive blow to the militants," a Saudi security source said.

The men were killed in a shootout Friday night as they tried to dispose of the body of Johnson, who was beheaded after the Saudi government refused to free Islamist prisoners by a Friday deadline set by Muqrin's cell.

Good

May they rot as maggots dining on excrement in the afterlife.

david

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:22 am

nepenthe wrote:lonewolfz28 and UOD,

<bites tongue very hard>

"If you are a hammer the problems you face are all nails"

David, I think you misread my post. I'm NOT in any way advocating a position for dealing with the terrorists. I simply said one thing for people being held captive to do:

Resist your captors

I also brought up an idea as to how to help alleviate these kidnapping situations and that is:

Get an implant (RFID Chip) so we can locate you

I also mentioned that we/government should do more (creatively) to get our people back if they are captured. For example:

Setup a fake prisoner release....fake the media exposure. Do whatever it takes to get our people back short of actual negotiations. Hell...fake the negotiations!

I'm not an advocate for nuking them all or carpet bombing their asses back to the stone age. That would make matters worse. So I think you have me confused or misunderstand my position for the resistance of captives.

So again, to summarize.....if you ever get kidnapped....you must fight/resist your captors

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:53 am

EvilAngel wrote: We should not allow any more VISAS of any kind to any country affiliated with terrorism and all the people here in america that are on any kind of visa should get sent back home. That will piss off enough of the people that want to excape the madness over there and live in luxury to actualy and sinceraly "disaprrove" of any terrorism and possibly revolt against the ill logic teachings of terrorists. Send their ass HOME , get them out of our country.... they hate us unless we have freedom to offer them... **** them.

Well first of all ..my condolences to the family and friends of Mr. Johnson.
In regards to your post:
The only thing wrong with that is that some people come here to escape the things that are happening there. If they were to return, there could be repurcussions involved. Especially if they have children that are born here while on their stay. Those children more then likely would be americanized. The parents could not just return back alone without the kids.
I know some people have been against it in the past but I believe that fingerprinting and photographing of all immigrants will be a step forward since practically any third world nation passport or name can be altered...whereas a persons fingerprints are not so easily faked. I know a lot of non-US people here have said its not right but if you have never done anything, then you have nothing to fear, which is a good sign to me, that even good people may not come because of this, so hopefully it will keep out the bad.
As far as contractors in Iraq go...well...its not the US and I think for the extra pay it is not worth it ..the risk and possible grief for family members and friends outweighs what they could ever pay me to do. The Iraqis should be rebuilding Iraq. If they appreciate this freedom they have been given , then they should be on top of it.. full throttle.

Pie

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:03 am

UOD wrote:David, I think you misread my post. I'm NOT in any way advocating a position for dealing with the terrorists. I simply said one thing for people being held captive to do:
Resist your captors
I also brought up an idea as to how to help alleviate these kidnapping situations and that is:
Get an implant (RFID Chip) so we can locate you

I also mentioned that we/government should do more (creatively) to get our people back if they are captured. For example:

Setup a fake prisoner release....fake the media exposure. Do whatever it takes to get our people back short of actual negotiations. Hell...fake the negotiations!

So again, to summarize.....if you ever get kidnapped....you must fight/resist your captors

If you saw pics of Mr. Johnson, they had the guy trussed up and blinded. There wouldn't be much you could do to resist in that situation or most other kidnaps. The intent is to take advantage of the media and to prove themselves to their comrades. They keep a heavy watch on their captives 100%.
The fake release would most likely only work once. After that it wouldnt be effective. The chip as well. What would it take a terrorist to remove the chip and just chuck it out? You know that someone somewhere would make it publically known sooner or later that those chips were in use and that would be the first thing they looked for. It may even cause more harm then good if they decide to maul someone trying to find it. All it would take was one tinfoil hat dude to get word of that chip being installed and that would be the end of it.

Pie

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:59 pm

i say we behead the bastards whose release they demanded and put it all over the internet, shove it right back at them.

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 1:39 pm

UOD wrote:David, I think you misread my post. I'm NOT in any way advocating a position for dealing with the terrorists. I simply said one thing for people being held captive to do:

Resist your captors

So again, to summarize.....if you ever get kidnapped....you must fight/resist your captors

I had editted incorrectly.... ooooops.

As a soldier, it is in your reflexes to fight back, even as guns are pointed at you. That is not how it is with the average Joe.
Noogies for me though as you were speaking for yourself.

david

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 1:48 pm

nepenthe wrote:I had editted incorrectly.... ooooops.

As a soldier, it is in your reflexes to fight back, even as guns are pointed at you. That is not how it is with the average Joe.
Noogies for me though as you were speaking for yourself.

david

What do Noogles look like?

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:05 pm

downhill wrote:What do Noogles look like?

http://www.funsilly.com/noogie.shtml

lonewolfz28 · Post by **lonewolfz28** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:20 pm

nepenthe wrote:lonewolfz28 and UOD,

<bites tongue very hard>

"If you are a hammer the problems you face are all nails"

You both have the acumen and mindset of military people. Civil society is rightly aghast by what they heard and saw.

sim shalom,
david

Thanks for the compliment David. :2cool:

I'm not happy with what I saw anymore than I was with the beheadings of the Russian soldier in Chechnya or of Nicholas Berg. I just know that my chances of coming out alive are very slim if someone tries capturing/kidnaping me in the middle east. I'd rather die relatively quickly while putting up a fight.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 1:06 am

nepenthe wrote:I had editted incorrectly.... ooooops.

As a soldier, it is in your reflexes to fight back, even as guns are pointed at you. That is not how it is with the average Joe.
Noogies for me though as you were speaking for yourself.

david

You are right but I feel it is time we arm our civilian counterparts with the same info and training. My job in the military is to protect you. If passing around info protects you just a little bit more...then it has to be good. There are many facets to anti-terror training. I think we need to train our people in how to avoid becoming a target and how to make it difficult to be captured. Simple things like changing your driving course to and from work. Utilizing different access points at your workplace. Terrorists count on predictability. So don't be. change your routine. Don't become a habit that is targeted. I feel sad about Johnson because I feel we could have prevented his capture through the use of some very simple techniques.

Have a good one David!

lonewolfz28 · Post by **lonewolfz28** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:21 am

Not to mention that he's been there for 10 years and knows full-well what's going on. If he'd stuck to work and home with varied routes and travel times he'd have been much less of a target. Basic anti-terrorism as UOD pointed out.

He was so engrossed in local culture that there are reports that he was considering converting to Islam. That points towards the fact that he got complacent. If he had been properly trained and/or listened to the briefings that most companies/militaries give, he might be alive today.

That's not to say he deserved what he got, but he may well have made his own bed, so to speak.

Still doesn't excuse the actions of these POS's.

-4, only a few hundred to go. (note- I didn't say thousands or millions. I don't hold all muslims or middle-eastern people accountable for this crap, just the bas***d groups that did it.

)