What do you think about god?

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Mon May 31, 2004 8:41 am

nepenthe wrote:bigmo,

It is disquieting to place ourselves in this universe with things so small and so grand. A diety serves as a comforting father figure.

I prefer to think of G-d in the abstract. It is in the conscious and conscience where He does his greatest work..... Where He is part of us rather apart....

Yes, I do fight over this in my own head ...

be well,
david

I've always appreciated your comments David.

Why did someone have to tell me that we only use 10% of our brain? Dang it, I want to use 100%

Debbie · Post by **Debbie** » Mon May 31, 2004 8:50 am

Mytflyguy wrote:Saved .... I admire your conviction and I am sure you are on a good path.
So back to my original purpose ....
It is great to teach the Gospel , It is great to pass along the word ....But I truly Do not believe that God or Jesus would want you to alienate people by telling them that they are wrong, and trying to argue that you are correct and they are not ....
Just stick to your belief and knowledge ... Be content that YOU know what you know .... Let the others choose to follow if they wish ... But do not Preach to them that they are Wrong and incorrect and going to Hell if they don't .... That will only drive them farther from ANY type of relationship with Christ.
A Less than perfect one is better than none at all. ...

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon May 31, 2004 8:59 am

nepenthe wrote:As more is discovered and understood, our attributions to that which we thought divine appears to be simple ignorance.

Ignore the man behind the curtain...

I will be honest, I am not quite sure what you are getting at, can you please explain further?

Mytflyguy · Post by **Mytflyguy** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:01 am

He's saying that we use God to explain that which we do not understand ...

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:05 am

Mytflyguy wrote:He's saying that we use God to explain that which we do not understand ...

that is what I thought at first but then said ignore the man behind the curtain so that threw me off..lol

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:11 am

Ghosthunter wrote:that is what I thought at first but then said ignore the man behind the curtain so that threw me off..lol

Wizard of Oz reference. He appeared as an almighty force, but actually was utilizing sciences that the others did not understand.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:34 am

"Ich liebe dich nicht, du liebst mich nicht"

When that is whispered in the background, it cracks me up!

The_Lurker · Post by **The_Lurker** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:40 am

nepenthe wrote:http://www.cchem.berkeley.edu/~chem130a ... ndlaw.html

Care to explain how the law is contrary to chance and evolution.

first sentence from the link you provided.

"The second law is concerned with entropy, which is a measure of disorder. The second law says that the entropy of the universe increases

yet life this Earth didn't become disordered, actually to the contrary and became more complex and orderly.
it can be argued that the overall entropy of the universe increased regardless of our decreased entropy here on earth. yet "i" will not accept that all this wonderful beauty we see all around including up to the human condition is just a chance opposite reaction to entropy.

maybe not contrary to chance, but contrary to the chance, sure.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Mon May 31, 2004 11:28 am

The_Lurker wrote:first sentence from the link you provided.

"The second law is concerned with entropy, which is a measure of disorder. The second law says that the entropy of the universe increases

yet life this Earth didn't become disordered, actually to the contrary and became more complex and orderly.
it can be argued that the overall entropy of the universe increased regardless of our decreased entropy here on earth. yet "i" will not accept that all this wonderful beauty we see all around including up to the human condition is just a chance opposite reaction to entropy.

maybe not contrary to chance, but contrary to the chance, sure.

You call this life /organized/???

The_Lurker · Post by **The_Lurker** » Mon May 31, 2004 11:57 am

Paft wrote:You call this life /organized/???

from a cellular or molecular level of course!

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon May 31, 2004 11:57 am

I believe.

I think my problem is that I have questions that I do not know how to ask.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Mon May 31, 2004 11:59 am

The_Lurker wrote:from a cellular or molecular level of course!

I think our cell phones are very unorganized. Just look at the differences from country to country!

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon May 31, 2004 12:00 pm

nepenthe wrote:Wizard of Oz reference. He appeared as an almighty force, but actually was utilizing sciences that the others did not understand.

ok i agree with that

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Mon May 31, 2004 12:01 pm

The_Lurker wrote:from a cellular or molecular level of course!

Actually, from a cellular level we're all incredibly disorganized.

The_Lurker · Post by **The_Lurker** » Mon May 31, 2004 12:04 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:I think our cell phones are very unorganized. Just look at the differences from country to country!

thats what the GSM system is for. heck i went all over Europe with my cell phone. worked everywhere!

The_Lurker · Post by **The_Lurker** » Mon May 31, 2004 12:07 pm

Paft wrote:Actually, from a cellular level we're all incredibly disorganized.

oh noes! look at how the cells have grouped and organized to make things such as our brains, brains that have achieved consciousness!

wonderful!

Mytflyguy · Post by **Mytflyguy** » Mon May 31, 2004 12:13 pm

UOD wrote:I believe.

I think my problem is that I have questions that I do not know how to ask.

This is where a Good Church comes in ...

I had / Have many many questions ... still to this day ... that is the reason I have returned to Church. I have a wonderful church that like I said , applies the teaching of Christ ( and the Old Testemant ) to life in Today's terms ...

I have come to put my faith in him , regardless of my understanding of all his doings . Even through the worst parts , I trust that it is part of his plan and just ask that he make me see the reason I'm going through it later, after the fact.

My Feable 10% of brain usage just an't handle but so much . It might Explode ... lol

Mytflyguy · Post by **Mytflyguy** » Mon May 31, 2004 12:17 pm

Something that has always intrigued me though .....

Could we be part of the MIB Theory ?

If you look at a Molecules ( or atom of what ever they are ) pattern s, they are like tiny planets ....

They have the Nuecleus ( the Sun ) with the rotating protons and nuetrons ( planets )

So could our entire Solar system be a molecule within a Much much larger Being or a Blade of Grass on the playing Field of Gods Back Yard ?

Perception and Relativity is mind boggling ....

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Mon May 31, 2004 12:37 pm

Do I have to read 5 pages of responses to figure out what this thread is all about?

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Mon May 31, 2004 12:52 pm

Mytflyguy wrote:Something that has always intrigued me though .....

Could we be part of the MIB Theory ?

If you look at a Molecules ( or atom of what ever they are ) pattern s, they are like tiny planets ....

They have the Nuecleus ( the Sun ) with the rotating protons and nuetrons ( planets )

So could our entire Solar system be a molecule within a Much much larger Being or a Blade of Grass on the playing Field of Gods Back Yard ?

Perception and Relativity is mind boggling ....

Yeah, every time you flick a booger, you've destroyed an entire civilization

Mytflyguy · Post by **Mytflyguy** » Mon May 31, 2004 12:53 pm

5 Pages ??? lol Read all 13 man ....

Nah just answer the first post and you'll be aight

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Mon May 31, 2004 12:54 pm

Mytflyguy wrote:5 Pages ??? lol Read all 13 man ....

Nah just answer the first post and you'll be aight

I have mine config to show 40 post a page or something like that.

fixationdarknes · Post by **fixationdarknes** » Mon May 31, 2004 12:59 pm

This is getting boring. Just accept what you believe, and reject what you don't. We're just going in circles. I win.

The_Lurker · Post by **The_Lurker** » Mon May 31, 2004 1:04 pm

fixationdarknes wrote:This is getting boring. Just accept what you believe, and reject what you don't. We're just going in circles. I win.

but the GSM network is good for cellular networks i tell ya! believe me!

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Mon May 31, 2004 1:05 pm

The_Lurker wrote:first sentence from the link you provided.

"The second law is concerned with entropy, which is a measure of disorder. The second law says that the entropy of the universe increases

yet life this Earth didn't become disordered, actually to the contrary and became more complex and orderly.
it can be argued that the overall entropy of the universe increased regardless of our decreased entropy here on earth. yet "i" will not accept that all this wonderful beauty we see all around including up to the human condition is just a chance opposite reaction to entropy.

maybe not contrary to chance, but contrary to the chance, sure.

Let us review the entire paragraph.....

The second law is concerned with entropy (S), which is a measure of disorder. The second law says that the entropy of the universe increases. An increase in disorder (overall) is therefore spontaneous. If the volume and energy of a system are constant, then every change to the system increases the entropy. If volume or energy change, then the entropy of the system can actually decrease. However, the entropy of the universe does not decrease. The molecules in one's body exist in great order]

If energy is apply to a system.... for instance a sun bathing a planet in EMR.... entropy can actually decrease. Energy is required to increase or maintain order. It does not provide any proof of the divine, nor does it have anything to do with evolution.

sim shalom,
david

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Mon May 31, 2004 1:07 pm

bigmo66 wrote:I've always appreciated your comments David.

Why did someone have to tell me that we only use 10% of our brain? Dang it, I want to use 100%

As always, a pleasure to chat with you.

bigmo66 wrote:"Ich liebe dich nicht, du liebst mich nicht"

When that is whispered in the background, it cracks me up!

you have to love it...

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Mon May 31, 2004 2:19 pm

fixationdarknes wrote:This is getting boring. Just accept what you believe, and reject what you don't. We're just going in circles. I win.

Will it go 'round in circles, will it fly high like a bird up in the sky....

The_Lurker · Post by **The_Lurker** » Mon May 31, 2004 3:04 pm

nepethe wrote:for instance a sun bathing a planet in EMR.... entropy can actually decrease. Energy is required to increase or maintain order

no, entropy is always increasing. the sun consumes itself to provide energy, devolving into a simpler state. so the increase in order doesn't happen. moving to a smaller scale of the planet receiving the radiation of said sun, even the maintenance of said order will fail at a point.

nepenthe wrote:Let It does not provide any proof of the divine, nor does it have anything to do with evolution.

oh but it does go right at the heart of evolution, the entropy of the entire universe is increasing thus the universe as a whole is devolving.

look at a basic definition of evolve...
"A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

key words "usually, more complex" and that is contrary to the second law.

as for proving Divinity, that really wasn't the point. it was more to proving the lack of cohesion in mans scientific laws to explain all, there is much that is still "unexplained" and only "theory". Take Quantum Physics a throughly enjoyable Field to me, we have just recently come to the conclusion of the possibility of 21 different dimensions, if the string theory is proven correct. an as a side note, have dis-proven the big bang theory all together once string theory is proven.

for some divinity will only be proven when they are at the feet of the divine, and so be it.
as always faith requires faith.

Shagster · Post by **Shagster** » Mon May 31, 2004 3:14 pm

I have dabbled in so many religions. All I know is I believe in God.

golfnintendoboy · Post by **golfnintendoboy** » Mon May 31, 2004 4:17 pm

Shaggy wrote:I have dabbled in so many religions. All I know is I believe in God.

how do you define "God"?

fixationdarknes · Post by **fixationdarknes** » Mon May 31, 2004 4:25 pm

golfnintendoboy wrote:how do you define "God"?

doG spelled backwards.

Shagster · Post by **Shagster** » Mon May 31, 2004 4:50 pm

golfnintendoboy wrote:how do you define "God"?

I can't really define God. Kinda an infinite definition. So much stuff in my life has happened that I can't put 2 and 2 together to create a core belief of who He is.

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Mon May 31, 2004 6:53 pm

The_Lurker wrote:no, entropy is always increasing. the sun consumes itself to provide energy, devolving into a simpler state. so the increase in order doesn't happen. moving to a smaller scale of the planet receiving the radiation of said sun, even the maintenance of said order will fail at a point.

The sun is the energy source for the planet Earth. It will run out of energy an all in the solar system will eventually into disorder. However at this time, it is the energy source that is counteracting entropy on this planet.

oh but it does go right at the heart of evolution, the entropy of the entire universe is increasing thus the universe as a whole is devolving.

look at a basic definition of evolve...
"A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

key words "usually, more complex" and that is contrary to the second law.

as for proving Divinity, that really wasn't the point. it was more to proving the lack of cohesion in mans scientific laws to explain all, there is much that is still "unexplained" and only "theory". Take Quantum Physics a throughly enjoyable Field to me, we have just recently come to the conclusion of the possibility of 21 different dimensions, if the string theory is proven correct. an as a side note, have dis-proven the big bang theory all together once string theory is proven.

for some divinity will only be proven when they are at the feet of the divine, and so be it.
as always faith requires faith.

Evolution involves mutation and natural selection.... complexity is favored only by how it better competes in a specific environment.
You had brought it up as being somehow disproved by the second law of thermodynamics.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon May 31, 2004 8:27 pm

If the universe is evolving....then why is it that God does not evolve? Does God exist within the universe?

The_Lurker · Post by **The_Lurker** » Mon May 31, 2004 8:43 pm

nepenthe wrote:The sun is the energy source for the planet Earth. It will run out of energy an all in the solar system will eventually into disorder. However at this time, it is the energy source that is counteracting entropy on this planet.

sure counteracting entropy, but what classical evolutionist ask is for it to not only counteract (to stop it from happening) but to do the exact opposite.

entropy goes from order to disorder. but how did order come about in the first place?

from dis-order to order then counteract disorder with the sun. the question remains, how was order achieved.

and such the crux of the matter.

Evolution involves mutation and natural selection.... complexity is favored only by how it better competes in a specific environment.
You had brought it up as being somehow disproved by the second law of thermodynamics.

oh no, evolution exist. there have been many provable examples of evolution in small time scales.

but evolution in the classical long term sense (from slime to humans) is contrary to the 2nd law of T-dynamics. to not only stay off entropy, but to do the exact opposite and build an orderly complex organism.

The_Lurker · Post by **The_Lurker** » Mon May 31, 2004 8:53 pm

UOD wrote:If the universe is evolving....then why is it that God does not evolve? Does God exist within the universe?

who says God is resident in this or any other universe? or cosmos? for that matter why does God have to be resident on this plane of existence? (or dimension)

mind ya not being resident has nothing to do with with not existing on or in those planes.

look into super string theory. it describes a world with 10+ dimensions of existence. this is just what we can fathom now, with the feeble science we have now.

saved · Post by **saved** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:51 pm

UOD wrote:If the universe is evolving....then why is it that God does not evolve? Does God exist within the universe?

The universe is not evolving. it is in a state of decay, not evolution.

ScottE · Post by **ScottE** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:55 pm

I've got beer and I've got popcorn. Who want's some?

I've also got a dead horse if anybody feels the need.

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:08 pm

The_Lurker wrote:sure counteracting entropy, but what classical evolutionist ask is for it to not only counteract (to stop it from happening) but to do the exact opposite.

entropy goes from order to disorder. but how did order come about in the first place?

from dis-order to order then counteract disorder with the sun. the question remains, how was order achieved.

and such the crux of the matter.

If you are asking how it is all put together then you should look into the unified theory. The 2nd law of thermodynamics applies to the physical properties of materials, not necessarily other theories. If you wish to argue this, again I refer you to my riposte regarding the first paragraph of the thermo link..... If you add energy (sun) to the system (earth), entropy decreases. Entropy being the tendancy toward disorder. This law however has little to do divinity..... save what you might wish to gleen from it.

but evolution in the classical long term sense (from slime to humans) is contrary to the 2nd law of T-dynamics. to not only stay off entropy, but to do the exact opposite and build an orderly complex organism.

The above still applies.

nepenthe · Post by **nepenthe** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:09 pm

ScottE wrote:I've also got a dead horse if anybody feels the need.

Leave my love life out of this, please.....