US military getting active?!?

SeedOfChaos · Post by **SeedOfChaos** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:36 am

Many people reporting troubles with the navigation systems today... looks like the GPS system (which was designed for the US military) is inactive for normal users, which would normally mean that its precision is increased (in normal mode it is inacurate on purpose...), which then would probably mean that the US military is using it for operations. Also, the UK is mobilizing about 22,000 reservists, so I heard...

Are we going to see action soon? Anyone else know more?

Cheers,
Ronald

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 8:01 am

I hope so...I think if they dont do it soon, they are going to wait until after the holidays, but I could be wrong.

I have a freind who is active in the marines, he told me he cannot wait for war with Iraq. I asked him why?

He said if you kill someone here as a civilian you go to jail.

If you kill somoene while at war, you get a medal.

He is hoping for a medal.

RoundEye · Post by **RoundEye** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 8:27 am

I don't know if this means much or not, but about two weeks ago I seen a very long train-load of military gear come through New Orleans. Tanks, trucks, ect.

The last time I seen that was right before the Gulf war.

Croc · Post by **Croc** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 8:27 am

Originally posted by davy19

I have a freind who is active in the marines, he told me he cannot wait for war with Iraq. I asked him why?

He said if you kill someone here as a civilian you go to jail.

If you kill somoene while at war, you get a medal.

He is hoping for a medal.

I feel sorry for your Marine friend, Davy.

Croc.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 9:15 am

Originally posted by Croc
I feel sorry for your Marine friend, Davy.

Croc.

Why? If he is killing Iraqi soldiers when at war then nothing wrong with that. especially if you get a medal for it.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 10:18 am

Originally posted by davy19
Why? If he is killing Iraqi soldiers when at war then nothing wrong with that. especially if you get a medal for it.

I see...your point is...it's ok to get enjoyment from shooting people as long as....

1. It's a war...

2.He gets a medal...

I can't imagine anyone getting kicks out of shooting people. Kinda like heading out on the high deseret and shooting rock chucks, eh?

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 11:50 am

Originally posted by downhill
I see...your point is...it's ok to get enjoyment from shooting people as long as....

1. It's a war...

2.He gets a medal...

I can't imagine anyone getting kicks out of shooting people. Kinda like heading out on the high deseret and shooting rock chucks, eh?

Not saying i neccessarily agre, and dont know if i can do that personally, but this is what he told me, and kind of interesting way to look at it.

I

Onethenumber2 · Post by **Onethenumber2** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 12:11 pm

People get enjoyment from violent computer games. While that is nothing near the real thing they are getting enterainment from simulated kiling. Look at whats on TV. Its sad but true.

I know some AF reserve guys who have been told to be ready.

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 1:00 pm

He's a Marine. A different breed of individual.
They are trained to kill, to prpare to kill, and to want to kill.
They are our elite figting force for a reason.

vc_wannabe · Post by **vc_wannabe** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 1:00 pm

I think they are waiting untill after the elections. The war is predicted to last 20 something days. So it *should* be over before the holidays.

CiscoKid · Post by **CiscoKid** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 1:56 pm

I used to see trains like that as well as packed transport trucks going to the Navy base they used to have near the Port of Stockton.

but seeing as my cousin was shipped out the other day, a few weeks early...who really knows but the Joint Cheifs?

RoscoPColtrane · Post by **RoscoPColtrane** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:39 pm

Originally posted by vc_wannabe
I think they are waiting untill after the elections. The war is predicted to last 20 something days. So it *should* be over before the holidays.

Predicted to last twenty days?! that sounds kinda funny..kinda like they are predicting the weather!

I don't like the idea of war but i think somehting needs done about all that crap! Shoulda gotten him the first time....

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:49 pm

SOC-

The intentional error that GPS used to have was lifted in 2000. I used to know the name of the error generator, SSR or something like that. But its been lifted since. I haven't had any problems of late with my GPS stuff, worked dandy a few days ago. I'l have a look into it at work tomorrow. I'll call the local geodetic guy and ask him whats up.

waferdog · Post by **waferdog** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 7:00 pm

Brembo, you are thinking of SA - Selective Availability. I used my GPS this weekend and it was still accurate then for me. Maybe I will take it out now and check it against some known coordinates.

Waferdog

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 7:17 pm

Yeah! SA...thanks man. That was drivin me bonkers.

tHE_0ne · Post by **tHE_0ne** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 7:48 pm

drdoug99 · Post by **drdoug99** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 1:31 am

supposedly november 13th is when my best friend is getting sent to iraq, at least that's what he told me.

as for what he'll be doing there, i dont know.

Paindriver · Post by **Paindriver** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 2:10 am

Originally posted by drdoug99
supposedly november 13th is when my best friend is getting sent to iraq, at least that's what he told me. as for what he'll be doing there, i dont know.

Yep, that's what i heard. I live about 15 minutes from Fort Hood (biggest Army base?). My mom actually works on fort hood at a Rod and Gun club and word is a lot of troops are to ship out around the middle of November.

I guess where i work (Best Buy) will lose a lot of business. This town (Killeen, Texas) is run by the business of soldiers.

For those of you who are non-military and don't know about Ft. Hood. After the terrorist attack all of the entrances to ft. hood are blocked by 7-14 soldiers and cars are required to have two decal stickers (used to be one) and you must have a military id. If you don't have either you get pulled over and your car is checked and you can get a visitors pass. Big Delivery trucks are stuck to entering only certain entrances. Ft. Hood is humongous. Just a little useless info....

Debbie · Post by **Debbie** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 4:51 am

All I know is the last time I went to see LT, there was a sailor on the bus that was getting ready to head out with the fleet. As a matter of fact, they are out there or on their way. I would imagine that they would be on stand by status for now.

SeedOfChaos · Post by **SeedOfChaos** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 5:41 am

Thanks for all the replies! Quite some interesting stuff here, just what I hoped for.

Brembo, so you mean that the consumer GPS systems are now just as accurate as the military GPS systems?

I found some reports that the US air force was doing practice bombing runs over Iraq with laser guided missiles (didn't actually launch them but acted as if). Now I am asking myself if firing those missiles (or simulating) would require the GPS system and if that had anything to do with the customers reporting that their navigation systems weren't working.

It's about damn time the weapon inspectors can start their work, IMO... what are they waiting for? Couldn't they start their work already while the UN security council is babbling about the new resolution? Maybe they'll be hindered just like in the past, then all this argueing would be pointless and we could either go on with the weapons inspections or draft a resolution authorizing force because by that time Iraq has hindered the inspectors.

Cheers,
Ronald

Bouncer · Post by **Bouncer** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:45 am

"Brembo, so you mean that the consumer GPS systems are now just as accurate as the military GPS systems? "

I can answer that.

No.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

SeedOfChaos · Post by **SeedOfChaos** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 10:30 am

Thanks Bouncer. Do you have more thoughts on this? I'd be interested in your opinion...

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 10:56 am

Bouncer is wrong...Brembo is right. May 2nd, 2000. Broadcasts of the new unscrambled signals delivered the same military spec'd data to consumer devices. Accuracy to 20 yards.

http://www.onmagazine.com/on-mag/review ... 73,00.html

President Clinton made this happen.

I should also note that DGPS (D=Differential) is avaiable to consumers and accurate to 2 meters.

Krazy Kraut · Post by **Krazy Kraut** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:20 pm

blow stuff up
blow stuff up
blow stuff up
blow stuff up
blow stuff up

yeah bomb sodamn insane

Onethenumber2 · Post by **Onethenumber2** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 6:00 pm

They probably allowed the people to have more accuracy because the military has a new system or it is now more acurate. They like being special and having stuff no one has. We give our soilders the best training and best equipment of any military in the world. Thats why w3 b3 1337!

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 6:28 pm

Originally posted by Onethenumber2
We give our soilders the best training and best equipment of any military in the world. Thats why w3 b3 1337!

best equipment, ha

if ur talking planes and stuff than ya but personal equipment to infantry men and stuff, no.

Onethenumber2 · Post by **Onethenumber2** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 11:06 pm

Whoose got better?

Night vision, GPS, infrared, chemwar gear, weapons, ect...

SavageHrt · Post by **SavageHrt** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:05 am

Originally posted by drdoug99
supposedly november 13th is when my best friend is getting sent to iraq, at least that's what he told me. as for what he'll be doing there, i dont know.

Hey all, I'm finally back.... Anyway, I just wanted to interject a word of caution. We really shouldn't post dates and places of future military operations for a couple of reasons:

1. Doing that could potentially put those troops at risk.

2. Technically that sort of information is classified Confidential unless someone of 'proper authority' allows its release.

Sav

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 11:10 am

Originally posted by SavageHrt
Hey all, I'm finally back.... Anyway, I just wanted to interject a word of caution. We really shouldn't post dates and places of future military operations for a couple of reasons:

1. Doing that could potentially put those troops at risk.

2. Technically that sort of information is classified Confidential unless someone of 'proper authority' allows its release.

Sav

I did not know that somone hear had this classified info, and that date was correct for sure?

Bouncer · Post by **Bouncer** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:42 pm

UOD,

I was taking into account that SA was turned off, primarily because of the availability of DGPS systems which made SA obselete and pointless. In effect the military turned it off because there was no advantage to it anymore with DPGS systems commerically available.

However, the Military has and uses systems based on doppler shifting of both the military GPS carrier frequency and public carrier frequency (L1 and L2). This second frequency is not available to public vendors and is an encrypted signal. These systems are accurate to 1cm horizontal and 2cm vertical based on the receiver remaining static for more than 3 seconds. As the time the receiver stays static increases, the more the accuracy increases.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

Broadsword · Post by **Broadsword** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:32 pm

I want a medal

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:41 pm

Bouncer-

I use GPS as my trade, and there are commercial systems that can aquire 2cm accuracy in 3-5 seconds. RTK(Real Time Kinematic). It requires a fixed base station(on a known point for survey accuracy), but in relation to located points its gnats-ass accurate. The recievers are linked by wireless modems and use some intense processors to triangulate positions. This stuff is upwards of 100k a pop, so its not something that everyone has access to. The sale of the stuff is prolly tracked quite closely.

Now handheld survey grade recievers can resolve sub meter now, great for recon, and checking sat coverage, or verifying against known coordinates(Geodetic markers).

I doubt these systems are as flexible and fast(initial aquisition) as Mil type hardware, and they REQUIRE multiple recievers, whereas the Mil type(as you described) can operate with one reciever.

I checked a baseline the other day I used static GPS on with a laser total station, was off less than 1/100 of a foot. Considering the baseline was on the shortside for a GPS application(error increases) you CAN get sub centimeter(with corrections) with civie units, but its not simple or cheap.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:51 pm

Originally posted by brembo
Bouncer-

I use GPS as my trade, and there are commercial systems that can aquire 2cm accuracy in 3-5 seconds. RTK(Real Time Kinematic). It requires a fixed base station(on a known point for survey accuracy), but in relation to located points its gnats-ass accurate. The recievers are linked by wireless modems and use some intense processors to triangulate positions. This stuff is upwards of 100k a pop, so its not something that everyone has access to. The sale of the stuff is prolly tracked quite closely.

Now handheld survey grade recievers can resolve sub meter now, great for recon, and checking sat coverage, or verifying against known coordinates(Geodetic markers).

I doubt these systems are as flexible and fast(initial aquisition) as Mil type hardware, and they REQUIRE multiple recievers, whereas the Mil type(as you described) can operate with one reciever.

I checked a baseline the other day I used static GPS on with a laser total station, was off less than 1/100 of a foot. Considering the baseline was on the shortside for a GPS application(error increases) you CAN get sub centimeter(with corrections) with civie units, but its not simple or cheap.

All this new fangled stuff.......you should be hauling around chains...if it was good enough for George Washington....it should be good enough for brembo.

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:58 pm

Originally posted by downhill
All this new fangled stuff.......you should be hauling around chains...if it was good enough for George Washington....it should be good enough for brembo.

I've seen his plats. There is a disclaimer on em....+/- 5 acres, yes, he was saying that the survey might be off as much as 5 acres.

I do court ordered surveys that involve 1/10ths of an inch sometimes. Chain ain't gonna cut it

Besides if I had to drag a chain around in the MOUNTAINS, I'd be a Forest Ranger or something else, a laser is hard enough.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:08 pm

Originally posted by brembo
I've seen his plats. There is a disclaimer on em....+/- 5 acres, yes, he was saying that the survey might be off as much as 5 acres.

I do court ordered surveys that involve 1/10ths of an inch sometimes. Chain ain't gonna cut it Besides if I had to drag a chain around in the MOUNTAINS, I'd be a Forest Ranger or something else, a laser is hard enough.

[brembo voice] Ohhhhhh, I'm a lumber jack, yes I am.....I work all day and I drink all night!!.........Ohhhhhh[/brembo voice]

Old Saturday Night Live song.......sorry..couldn't resist...LOL

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:13 pm

Originally posted by davy19
I hope so...I think if they dont do it soon, they are going to wait until after the holidays, but I could be wrong.

I have a freind who is active in the marines, he told me he cannot wait for war with Iraq. I asked him why?

He said if you kill someone here as a civilian you go to jail.

If you kill somoene while at war, you get a medal.

He is hoping for a medal.

Horse Crap! Not much of a friend and by no means a true Marine.

The Idiot has obviously never seen a kid with no legs because of war. It's ugly, unfortunately it's Humanity.

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:13 pm

Monty Python did it too.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:23 pm

Originally posted by Rhuurrr
He's a Marine. A different breed of individual.
They are trained to kill, to prpare to kill, and to want to kill.
They are our elite figting force for a reason.

Slightly WRONG!!!!!
Different Breed - Yes
Trained to Kill - Yes
Elite - I like to think so
Want to kill - Nope

The difference between a Marine and note (some others) is the ability and willingness to obey orders and complete the mission without question. Blame the college boys and Politicians if a wrong decision is made. The Leatherneck loves God, country, Corps in that order. I have seen "Killers" embrace a child with the most gentle hands on earth. We do what we do because we are told it is right. I have never seen compassion in the civilian world like I have in the Marines. 20 years, 1 month and 8 days - been there.

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:27 pm

Originally posted by bigmo66
Slightly WRONG!!!!!
Different Breed - Yes
Trained to Kill - Yes
Elite - I like to think so
Want to kill - Nope

The difference between a Marine and note (some others) is the ability and willingness to obey orders and complete the mission without question. Blame the college boys and Politicians if a wrong decision is made. The Leatherneck loves God, country, Corps in that order. I have seen "Killers" embrace a child with the most gentle hands on earth. We do what we do because we are told it is right. I have never seen compassion in the civilian world like I have in the Marines. 20 years, 1 month and 8 days - been there.

no offense bigmo, I'm not talking down about the marines at all, hell i wish I would've had the balls to join when i was 17 years old, but I didn't.
Didn't mean to make a negative generalization there, just a point, and yours is well taken.

J

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 9:21 pm

Originally posted by bigmo66
We do what we do because we are told it is right.

Two questions:

1. Who is telling you it is right?

2. How does it make you feel when you know it is wrong?