Where a router fits in your network?

Syclone_A · Post by **Syclone_A** » Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:51 pm

http://www.linksys.com/products/display ... 20&grid=23

FRoSTY_ · Post by **FRoSTY_** » Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:55 pm

how can u not know that?

AMPLIFRIER · Post by **AMPLIFRIER** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 10:06 am

whats the point of this?

AMP

Syclone_A · Post by **Syclone_A** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 4:16 pm

see the cable or dsll line? see where the line goes into modem, and where modem goes into router? and to the other response, ummmmm if you knew how many times on here i was asked where a router fits in a network and where the modem (which isn't really a modem) fits into the setup then you would understand the usefullness of this thread.

AMPLIFRIER · Post by **AMPLIFRIER** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 6:22 pm

uhhhhhh

i guess ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Personaly.......i would post the link in a thread that was started by someone that was asking for the info.

It shouldnt be treated as a hassle to anwser when someone asks.

It's kinda the point of this place. It gives those that arent quite as advanced as the rest of us, a place to come and ask the questions.

it makes me feel good to be able to offer info to those that are looking for it.

JMHO

AMP

Syclone_A · Post by **Syclone_A** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 6:28 pm

i fully agree with that to a degree and i am going to try to get my point across to you since you appear a little more open-minded then others on here. Answering questions is fine, thats why i am A+, soon network +, mcse, cisco. But i have to admit it gets old answering the same thing over and over. I would like to have one permanent thread that has all of my threads on linksys in one and maybe combine all of the port threads in one and so forth. As i have stated elsewhere i am into the new technology in networking and came here to discuss new things and ideas with ppl because thats what interests me. Sure i don't mind helping ppl with things i have learned along the way. I just hate when ppl argue with you and they have never in there lives messed with half of this stuff. I will freely admit when i haven't messed with something or just not post, and i wish other ppl followed those same guidelines. (That last remark was not directed at you)

Bigdrums · Post by **Bigdrums** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:38 pm

You posted a thread with a question in the subject line, with the answer in your post. You did this to be helpful to others, but I admit I was confused when I saw that. I thought you needed help with where to locate your router, but now I understand you were just throwing it out there for the benefit of others.

BTW, are you using the wireless Lynksys unit? I've wanted to try this at home (uh oh!).

Syclone_A · Post by **Syclone_A** » Fri Dec 14, 2001 5:00 pm

No, i don't have wireless nic's in any of my pc's or my laptop so thats not an option for me. i would like to use wireless internet but the lan side is too slow for me. I need more than 100 mb/sec as it is now!

tomsykes · Post by **tomsykes** » Fri Dec 14, 2001 5:50 pm

Can I ask what you need more than 100Mbps for ?

Just curious.

HalfLifer · Post by **HalfLifer** » Fri Dec 14, 2001 6:06 pm

Be nice guys, hes trying to help.

Do it again and a mod will be contacted.

Phantom-Vortex · Post by **Phantom-Vortex** » Sat Dec 15, 2001 1:00 am

Originally posted by tomsykes
Can I ask what you need more than 100Mbps for ?

Just curious.

OMG......tell me why more horsepower for your car,a superfine girl,why more money,bigger house,why more proc speed,more ram.............

ummmm lets see......ummmm.....because WE WANT THAT .........DUH.

Lets see mmm LAN party with 32 peps???mmmm maybe??

Stef · Post by **Stef** » Sat Dec 15, 2001 1:19 am

Originally posted by Syclone_A+
see the cable or dsll line? see where the line goes into modem, and where modem goes into router? and to the other response, ummmmm if you knew how many times on here i was asked where a router fits in a network and where the modem (which isn't really a modem) fits into the setup then you would understand the usefullness of this thread.

Just a question, if a device modulates and demodulates a signal, either digital or analog, what is it?

Stef

Syclone_A · Post by **Syclone_A** » Sat Dec 15, 2001 10:10 am

if you get a external bridge (not modem) with a network card as your setup for say dsl it is referred to as a bridge. This is because a modem which is modulate demodulate as you stated in your post and thats all it does. A bridge does much more and to learn on why they are referred to a bridges and not modems i would suggest looking up the definition of a bridge. If not here is a quote (sirens********quote, means not my own words for all my critics out there**********) from my network + book: A device that connects and passes packets on two network segments that use the same protocol. I would add that it can be used to connect two dissimiliar networks being phone line for dsl and lan which is ethernet. I would add that you can find more info in "dsl for dummies".

tomsykes · Post by **tomsykes** » Sat Dec 15, 2001 5:47 pm

Originally posted by Phantom-Vortex

OMG......tell me why more horsepower for your car,a superfine girl,why more money,bigger house,why more proc speed,more ram............. ummmm lets see......ummmm.....because WE WANT THAT .........DUH.

Lets see mmm LAN party with 32 peps???mmmm maybe??

Considering most HDD's can't put out more than 100Mbps, I wouldn't bother.

Having said that, we run GigE into our servers

tomsykes · Post by **tomsykes** » Sat Dec 15, 2001 5:48 pm

Originally posted by Syclone_A+
if you get a external bridge (not modem) with a network card as your setup for say dsl it is referred to as a bridge. This is because a modem which is modulate demodulate as you stated in your post and thats all it does. A bridge does much more and to learn on why they are referred to a bridges and not modems i would suggest looking up the definition of a bridge. If not here is a quote (sirens********quote, means not my own words for all my critics out there**********) from my network + book: A device that connects and passes packets on two network segments that use the same protocol. I would add that it can be used to connect two dissimiliar networks being phone line for dsl and lan which is ethernet. I would add that you can find more info in "dsl for dummies".

If you have a DSL connection, whether it uses bridged ethernet or not, it is a modem. Strictly speaking, as mentioned by stef a modem modulates and demodulates. ADSL signals are modulated using the DMT* modulation scheme (with reed-solomon line coding).

End of story.

Cheers,
Tom Sykes
B.Eng(Comms).
Melbourne Australia.

* some older american telco's still use CAP, but negligible amounts.

Syclone_A · Post by **Syclone_A** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 12:39 am

ummmm, ok well i refuse to argue with ignorance, reed the books i read and argue with the authors!

tomsykes · Post by **tomsykes** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 8:26 pm

Originally posted by Syclone_A+
ummmm, ok well i refuse to argue with ignorance, reed the books i read and argue with the authors!

No ignorance, just fact.

Fact from the Institute of Electrical & Electronic Engineers - which is what I would be placing slightly higher belief in that an A+ book.

Cheers,

Tom
Melbourne Australia
B.Eng (Telecommunications)

Phantom-Vortex · Post by **Phantom-Vortex** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 1:03 am

Originally posted by tomsykes

No ignorance, just fact.

Fact from the Institute of Electrical & Electronic Engineers - which is what I would be placing slightly higher belief in that an A+ book.

Cheers,

Tom
Melbourne Australia
B.Eng (Telecommunications)

Blah Blah? Blah blah blah............oh blah blah.Blah blah blah blah. Blah.

Syclone_A · Post by **Syclone_A** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 1:06 am

a+ is not the only book, i read dsl for dummies, networking for dummies, cisco, mcse, network +, ummmmmm tcp/ip for dummies, lets see there is prolly more. I would suggest you make your comments a little more accurate (the ones about me) and make your quotes alittle more accurate (ones from IEEE). did anyone know that it rained all day today?

just to add a quick note, read pages 86 and 87 of dsl for dummies book, there you will find the info from which i post. Like i said, don't argue with me, argue with the author, my last post here newbie, before you question me again i suggest additional reading!

tomsykes · Post by **tomsykes** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 1:49 am

Originally posted by Syclone_A+
a+ is not the only book, i read dsl for dummies, networking for dummies, cisco, mcse, network +, ummmmmm tcp/ip for dummies, lets see there is prolly more. I would suggest you make your comments a little more accurate (the ones about me) and make your quotes alittle more accurate (ones from IEEE). did anyone know that it rained all day today?

just to add a quick note, read pages 86 and 87 of dsl for dummies book, there you will find the info from which i post. Like i said, don't argue with me, argue with the author, my last post here newbie, before you question me again i suggest additional reading!

Hehe... the authors of half these books wouldn't know what modulation even was.

So, in this case, it is better to take advice from the people who "write the rules" for telecommunications - that is IEEE & ITU.

Cheers

Tom
Melbourne Australia
B.Engineering(Telecommunications)

Syclone_A · Post by **Syclone_A** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:00 am

ROTFLMAO! cisco doesn't know modulation? and neither does microsoft! hmmmmmmmm.....................i didn't wanna waste any more time here but you gave me such a good laugh, i think whenever i get depressed and i need a good laugh i will just come and read your last post! oh and just because people often call it a dsl modem doesn't mean it is one, in fact this guy even discusses that in that book. I guess blizzard doesn't know anything about making a game either huh? Why don't you just walk in a college classroom, one thats advanced, like physics, walk up to the teacher and tell him/her they don't know anything about physics. Thats basically applying the same logic! LOL, maybe this SENIOR member is having a SENIOR moment!

tomsykes · Post by **tomsykes** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:05 am

Originally posted by Syclone_A+
ROTFLMAO! cisco doesn't know modulation? and neither does microsoft! hmmmmmmmm.....................i didn't wanna waste any more time here but you gave me such a good laugh, i think whenever i get depressed and i need a good laugh i will just come and read your last post! oh and just because people often call it a dsl modem doesn't mean it is one, in fact this guy even discusses that in that book. I guess blizzard doesn't know anything about making a game either huh? Why don't you just walk in a college classroom, one thats advanced, like physics, walk up to the teacher and tell him/her they don't know anything about physics. Thats basically applying the same logic! LOL, maybe this SENIOR member is having a SENIOR moment!

I am not claiming that - but a cisco CCNA book isn't exactly going to cover the finer aspects of baseband/broadband modulation.

No, my logic isn't being applied. I think you need to take a step back, and rather than dismiss what everyone says as 'incorrect' because your A+ books don't cover it - actually consider their input for once - it may save you great embarassment one day when something which isn't covered in a cert comes up !

But anyway, back to the point. The fact remains - that a DSL CPE unit is a modem - it is a modulator and demodulator of a signal - whether it uses DMT, CAP or 2B1Q is irelevant - the definition stands.

Just an addition, since you seem to like Cisco a bit (most CCNA's do, it's quite a buzz to become certified - er, I guess ), I've included some output from one of my routers with a DSL WIC in it:

nOFF3640n01>sh dsl int atm3/0
Alcatel 20150 chipset information
ATU-R (DS) ATU-C (US)
Modem Status: Showtime (DMTDSL_SHOWTIME)
DSL Mode: ITU G.992.1 (G.DMT)
ITU STD NUM: 0x01 0x1
Vendor ID: 'ALCB' 'GSPN'
Vendor Specific: 0x0000 0x0002
Vendor Country: 0x00 0x00
Capacity Used: 28% 96%
Noise Margin: 30.0 dB 8.0 dB
Output Power: 11.5 dBm 12.0 dBm
Attenuation: 12.0 dB 7.0 dB
Defect Status: None None
Last Fail Code: Handshake or init message invalid or had bad CRC
Selftest Result: 0x00
Subfunction: 0x15
Interrupts: 84426 (0 spurious)
PHY Access Err: 0
Activations: 9
SW Version: 3.670
FW Version: 0x1A04

Interleave Fast Interleave Fast
Speed (kbps): 2048 0 768 0
Reed-Solomon EC: 0 0 0 0
CRC Errors: 0 0 2 0
Header Errors: 0 0 0 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
BER Valid sec: 0 0
BER Invalid sec: 0 0

DMT Bits Per Bin
00: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 6 6 8 9 A A B B
10: A B A B A A 9 9 8 8 7 7 7 7 0 0
20: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 2 2 2
30: 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
40: 0 3 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 2 4 4 4 4 4 4
50: 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 2 4 4 4 4 4
60: 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
70: 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
80: 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
90: 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
A0: 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
B0: 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3
C0: 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 3 3 3 3 2 2 2
D0: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
E0: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 0 0 0 0
F0: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Oh, hello, DMT! Ahhh the modulation scheme! yes, a dsl modem actually is a modem! surprise surprise!

Syclone_A · Post by **Syclone_A** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:21 am

"The enemy is weakened!"

Syclone_A · Post by **Syclone_A** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 12:28 pm

Hey tom, how many twists are there in a foot of cat5? Just curious

FlyingMonkey · Post by **FlyingMonkey** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 7:17 pm

You seem to be fond of the For Dummies line of books.
They're quite appealing, eh?

tomsykes · Post by **tomsykes** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 8:30 pm

Originally posted by Syclone_A+
Hey tom, how many twists are there in a foot of cat5? Just curious

No - That is not something which is of use to me. Why don't you look in a search engine.

eddiec · Post by **eddiec** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 10:12 pm

a+ is not the only book, i read dsl for dummies, networking for dummies, cisco, mcse, network +, ummmmmm tcp/ip for dummies, lets see there is prolly more. I would suggest you make your comments a little more accurate (the ones about me) and make your quotes alittle more accurate (ones from IEEE). did anyone know that it rained all day today?

Ah-ha!!! Now I've got you Syclone. It certainly did NOT rain here all day. By the way, anybody want a free puppy?

PhyberOptix · Post by **PhyberOptix** » Thu Dec 20, 2001 2:36 pm

I'm reading over the posts and from what I gather the discussion is over naming standards. So you have a DSL "device" that bridges, routes, filters, modulates/demodulates, logs, etc etc. I would say that common terminology refers to this as a "modem" b/c that's its main and most common function. Not sure that it really matters what you call it.

As for the "dummies" books being credible, I would certainly approach that w/ caution. One of the jr engineers at my work got a "Cisco Networking for Dummies" book. I haven't looked through it but I did see that the 2 authors are only CCNA's. That's pretty bad considering I've met *numerous* CCNP's who are nothing but paper. For definitive refrences I would stick to RFC's (or IEEE standards).