Possible RWIN Sizes???

Lee_Nover · Post by **Lee_Nover** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 11:46 am

Can someone intelligent, (not you Lobos, I don't want a reply with just "www.howstuffworks.com" as your post) explain to me what type of varibales on your computer/connection would influence the size of the RWIN that is most beneficial to the variables you have. i.e. Size of CPU, type of OS, amount of memory, type of connection, caps upload/download, amount of hops to most frequented sites, latency to ISP, latency to most frequented sites, etc. I am seeing RWIN's from 8760 to 700,800 being recommend with users with almost identical system setups. How can that be? What is the greatest variable one can have to influence the RWIN size that is best for them? And please Lobos, don't reply with "Click on my Signature Below" annoying ****.

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 11:49 am

Lee_Nover, far as I am concerned you are trouble maker and someone else can help you

Lee_Nover · Post by **Lee_Nover** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 11:51 am

I didn't think you knew the answer.

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 11:53 am

Oh I know but you just want to disagree so find some place to be!

Lee_Nover · Post by **Lee_Nover** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 11:54 am

Yeah, that's it.

EvilAjax · Post by **EvilAjax** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:47 pm

2+2=4
Go to http://www.howstuffworks.com oh and click my signature.

Don't look for a response if you're going to be talking like that. Lobo helps out as much as he can and there's no need for a newb like you to start causing trouble. We have FAQ's here... why not read them... You might be able to find out a little something about RWINS. And with an RWIN of 800... you will go below modem speed...

Later newb

Carla C · Post by **Carla C** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:49 pm

Hiya!!!!!!!!!!

Who wants a game of Quake 3?

Oopsy you might be thinking of a different newb EvilAjax lol ;)

Good to see you all

Carla

Lee_Nover · Post by **Lee_Nover** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 3:41 pm

I have done due diligence on my own that is why I am asking in this forum. The Rwin range is 8760 to 700800. Sorry about the inconsistency with commas, etc. It seems that if there was some method to the madness, people would be able to figure on their own a good range to try out with RWIN's, instead of just punching in numbers out of thin air, and testing with very inconsistant download sites even at off peak hours. When I use the RWIN calculator, it recommends an RWIN of 8760, more than twice smaller than XP default. My web browsing/download comes to a screething halt. I just need to know what are the biggest variable on one's setup that influence RWIN size, i.e. where does 51,100 recommendation come from? Why does Windows XP use a small RWIN? Why do some people get good results with little RWIN's while others get just as good results with very large RWIN's. If you think this question is causing turbulance, then perhaps I am at the wrong board.

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 3:46 pm

XP uses small RWIN's first time I heard that, the differences in RWIN values are because of cable or dsl and all connections are different, where did 51100 come from, it's a multiple and fast

hayc59 · Post by **hayc59** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 4:07 pm

whoa bend_over chill out!!
Lobo has done his homework
and is very intelligent in this(RWIN)Tweaking
stuff....i myself depend on him,(and others)
for my speed increase! he has shown me more
than i would ever have known before i met him
BRAVO LOBO...hey that rhymes!!! Sweeeeeet

Lee_Nover · Post by **Lee_Nover** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 4:32 pm

Xp uses 17520. Relatively small compared to some of the RWIN values suggested on this board. 51100 came from your suggestion to numerous tweaking "Newbs" that had requested what RWIN's they should try out. I know RWIN sizes are dependant on type of connection; I have cable. What can I conclude from that? I have seen people work really well with small RWIN and really well with large RWIN, all on cable. What other variable determines RWIN size, besides type of connection?

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 4:35 pm

EvilAjax · Post by **EvilAjax** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 4:44 pm

You must be using the RWIN Calculator incorrectly.

I don't know what your cap is... but let's say it's 3000, your latency @ 20ms and your MSS @ 1460. Your recommended RWIN should be 119720.

I don't understand why all of a sudden these recommended values are so important to you. Are you going to write a book? Do you want to help people out? With that attitude and rudeness, you wont receive any help.

Advertised speed, latency and MSS is what determines your RWIN.

Lee_Nover · Post by **Lee_Nover** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:20 pm

On the forum at http://www.broadbandnuts.com ironically where you were posting, there is a link for RWIN Calculator. When asked for bandwidth, this is what the help file says

"The bandwidth field is used to input your total average bandwidth for your connection. Accurate values are represented in Kbytes/sec if my connection could attain 300KB/sec I would use 300 in the field. "

Do you see where it says Kbytes? I am capped at 3000 Kbits, not Kilobytes. Divide 3000/8 and you get Kilobytes. I think you are confused, but thanks for trying to help.

Here is the link for the calculator http://broadbandnuts.com/calc/ so you can see for yourself.

cablenut · Post by **cablenut** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:27 pm

Originally posted by Lee_Nover
On the forum at http://www.broadbandnuts.com ironically where you were posting, there is a link for RWIN Calculator. When asked for bandwidth, this is what the help file says

"The bandwidth field is used to input your total average bandwidth for your connection. Accurate values are represented in Kbytes/sec if my connection could attain 300KB/sec I would use 300 in the field. "

Do you see where it says Kbytes? I am capped at 3000 Kbits, not Kilobytes. Divide 3000/8 and you get Kilobytes. I think you are confused, but thanks for trying to help.

Here is the link for the calculator http://broadbandnuts.com/calc/ so you can see for yourself.

We all get confused sometimes, and who wouldn't want 3000KBytes/sec!

Did you get your numbers right for the calculator?

EvilAjax · Post by **EvilAjax** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:53 pm

Originally posted by Lee_Nover
On the forum at http://www.broadbandnuts.com ironically where you were posting, there is a link for RWIN Calculator. When asked for bandwidth, this is what the help file says

"The bandwidth field is used to input your total average bandwidth for your connection. Accurate values are represented in Kbytes/sec if my connection could attain 300KB/sec I would use 300 in the field. "

Do you see where it says Kbytes? I am capped at 3000 Kbits, not Kilobytes. Divide 3000/8 and you get Kilobytes. I think you are confused, but thanks for trying to help.

Here is the link for the calculator http://broadbandnuts.com/calc/ so you can see for yourself.

Nope, not confused. Just incorrect.

Lee_Nover · Post by **Lee_Nover** » Tue Nov 06, 2001 8:42 pm

You guys confuse me. The reason for my inquisitions is I am optimzing some network code in a FPS game we are developing for hopefully Q1 of 2002. I am trying to gain an understanding of how this all will affect game lag, hitch warnings, etc. I appreciate all your help.

funky · Post by **funky** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 1:06 am

Anyone who recommand 8760 for Cable has not do their homework correctly, or bother to even do so at all. I can give you an old school method, but that has not really shown performance from the Rwins that the method calculated.

Lee_Nover · Post by **Lee_Nover** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 9:33 am

According to the RWIN calculator most commonly used and accepted, if you have a low ping, it will calculate a low RWIN value for you. In other words, if you have a really bad connection with high pings, it will recommend a high RWIN value. Doesn't make to much sense to me. Lobos, thanks for the read about TCP protocols. It was somewhat useful, but after several reads, still did not answer my question.

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 10:04 am

Are you using big numbers in your NIC Buffer settings?

Lee_Nover · Post by **Lee_Nover** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 10:25 am

No, I am using the suggested settings for a low RWIN.

cablenut · Post by **cablenut** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 10:39 am

Originally posted by Lee_Nover
According to the RWIN calculator most commonly used and accepted, if you have a low ping, it will calculate a low RWIN value for you. In other words, if you have a really bad connection with high pings, it will recommend a high RWIN value. Doesn't make to much sense to me. Lobos, thanks for the read about TCP protocols. It was somewhat useful, but after several reads, still did not answer my question.

First of all why are you implementing the TCP/IP protocol in this game? Second there are many many reasons as to why a high latency, high bandwidth link needs MORE of a TCP Buffer:

Slow Start/Congestion Avoidance
Bandwidth limit @ latency is increased (Data in flight)
RTO Van Jacobson's Retransmission alogrithim
TCP RWIN buffer is derived from Bandwidth * Delay, you input large numbers into, and get large numbers out.

Just search for "TCP rwin formula" on google.com you'll get many sites that explain in full detail the forumla.

Lee_Nover · Post by **Lee_Nover** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 10:56 am

Thanks Cablenut, that explains actually quite a bit. I am not implementing TCP/IP Protocol into the game, just tyring to gain an understanding of how it all works in order to optimize the online gaming experince with low latencies, and as little server dependicies as possible based on this info. Cablenut, your version 4.08 uses much more Windows default settings than 4.02. I find 4.02 faster for web page loading, ftp downloads, etc. Is that because of my system? When are you going to have a newer version released? Are you getting any other negaitve feedback about your newest version?

cablenut · Post by **cablenut** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 11:15 am

Latency is really all dependant on your connection medium, setting the TCP buffer is really just making sure it is set to a connection specific number.

Most games as you know use the UDP protocol. TCP/IP tweaks like mine, or Speedguides only tweak TCP protocol specific registry values, so UDP would have no bearing on those. UDP is a rather dumbed down protocol, and currently there are no real registry parameters for it.

I always suggest someone tweak their settings, for their connection. I provide CableNut, MTU Tool, and RWIN Calculator for this. You can use either version as they are both backward compatiable.

I find a good source of feedback of the program ishere most of the time.

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 1:59 pm

Lee this may be of some help here

Lee_Nover · Post by **Lee_Nover** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 2:35 pm

Great article. Thanks.