Wish all States Were Like Arizona

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TonyT
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Post by TonyT »

Sarahnn wrote:These illegal aliens are not trying to escape from pursecution, and tryranny. They are not willing to forsake their native home to seek refuge in a new country where they will make a contribution as new citizens.

They are murderers, drug smugglers, gun runners, gang members. They have overrun our resources and give nothing back. They act like criminals. They hide and lie and fake their identities. They loiter and protest for rights they are not entitled to because they are not here legally.
Re-study your history dude. Very very few people emingrated to America to escape pursecution and tyranny. Sure, the Puritans came here for religious freedom, but they sure were not pure. Just look at their laws and moral codes. They would not have had to create such strict laws against certain behavior unless there were enough people doing that strange behavior that the rest of them felt the need to protect their society using wierd laws! Look in tghe Old Testament to get an idea of what kinds of "immoral" things the Puritans were doing. They based their laws upon that book.

Most early American settlers came from Brittain. And the British were more than happy to offload their criminals, non-conformists, artists and non-Protestants. Later, after this new land stabilized a bit with Brittish loyals, England stopped sending its unwanted here and sent them to Australia. Sort of a "humane genocide" was what they were doing.

The majority of emigrants came to America for opportunity and a better life for themselves and their families.

The majority of illegal immigrants coming to the US from S of the B are not criminals, other than entering this country illegally, they are seeking opportunity for a better life.

Let it be known though, I do not condone illegal immigration. I do condone emigrating here legally.
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Post by Humboldt »

Sarahnn wrote:I didn't say all. And I did not damn well imply it.
Sarahnn wrote:These illegal aliens are not trying to escape from pursecution, and tryranny. They are not willing to forsake their native home to seek refuge in a new country where they will make a contribution as new citizens.

They are murderers, drug smugglers, gun runners, gang members. They have overrun our resources and give nothing back. They act like criminals. They hide and lie and fake their identities. They loiter and protest for rights they are not entitled to because they are not here legally.
If that's not implication I don't know what is.
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Post by Humboldt »

Sarahnn wrote:Waahhhhh.....poor starving woman trying to feed her poor starving family cross border to turn herself in to start new life.....you give me a break. :D
Did I mention starving women and starving families?
Your arguments aren't being helped by your sarcasm.
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Post by Roody »

Sarahnn wrote:I didn't say all. And I did not damn well imply it. But, those are the only illegal immigrants I am concerned about. And frankly, when a new immigrant approaches me, I don't know who is who. It must be terrible in Arizona and other border states. They have my full sympathy and support.
Actually your words implied it and many have told you that. Instead of trying to excuse your blanket statement just make the correction instead of accusing everyone who read it that way as being a bleeding heart liberal.
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Post by Roody »

Mark wrote:i have to agree, it's about time we did something about illegals over burdening our system.

my family came here by following the rules, why can't theirs ?

and to anyone who calls me a racist, well fuxk you then :irate:
In all my time on the boards here Mark I have never seen a single U.S. member say what we need is more illegals in this country. Everyone here that I am aware of wants people to go through the proper legal process to become citizens. Obviously there is disagreements on how to achieve all of that, but in general I think most if not all here want the same thing.
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Post by JawZ »

Has anyone here in this thread been personally affected by illegal immigrants? Anyone here lose a job to an illegal immigrant?
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Post by Mark »

JawZ wrote:Has anyone here in this thread been personally affected by illegal immigrants? Anyone here lose a job to an illegal immigrant?
me working in construction, i have seen them on job sites and they do not work safe, had one drop a hammer on a co-workers back once as co-worker was bent over.

plus some of them do not respect others work, like they hack my plumbing up sometimes.

leaving piss jugs on job sites, stealing tools, can't communicate in English ect.

need i go on ?

of course that can happen to anyone, but just kinda irritates me i guess.
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Post by JawZ »

Mark wrote:me working in construction, i have seen them on job sites and they do not work safe, had one drop a hammer on a co-workers back once as co-worker was bent over.

plus some of them do not respect others work, like they hack my plumbing up sometimes.

leaving piss jugs on job sites, stealing tools, can't communicate in English ect.

need i go on ?

So you work with them on a consistent basis to see trends form yet you don't call INS on them? Why? Who do you work for? I'll call them for you if you won't.
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Post by Sarahnn »

Humboldt wrote:If that's not implication I don't know what is.
I qualified what I said. I'd like to stay on the point of the thread. tks.
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Post by Sarahnn »

Roody wrote:Actually your words implied it and many have told you that. Instead of trying to excuse your blanket statement just make the correction instead of accusing everyone who read it that way as being a bleeding heart liberal.
I did. And I wasn't calling anyone a bleeding heart liberal because they misconstrued my comment. I was referring to those who think that we should have more sympathy for the poor family running the border illegally, than the family who have complied with U.S. regulations but cant get in because of the flood of illegals.



Read the posts, Roody.
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Post by Sarahnn »

JawZ wrote:So you work with them on a consistent basis to see trends form yet you don't call INS on them? Why? Who do you work for? I'll call them for you if you won't.
That's my problem in this part of the U.S. (I'm near DC.) I had two Hispanic males deliver my treadmill and they did not speak one word of English while they were here. They set up the treadmill, showed me the book and pointed here and there....I was alone in the house and pretty uncomfortable as they smiled and chatted between themselves in Spanish while I stood there like a dummy.

I really didn't know how to react so i let it go. I wasn't about to ask them for their papers ... LOL
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Post by Sarahnn »

JawZ wrote:Has anyone here in this thread been personally affected by illegal immigrants? Anyone here lose a job to an illegal immigrant?
Some Hispanics installed my downstairs carpeting and by the time they were finished, I wanted to tip them. The service could not have been better. It gives me mixed feelings.
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Post by Sarahnn »

TonyT wrote:Re-study your history dude. Very very few people emingrated to America to escape pursecution and tyranny.


No offense, but Study your American History and we'll talk.
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Post by Humboldt »

Sarahnn wrote:I qualified what I said. I'd like to stay on the point of the thread. tks.
How, by any stretch of your imagination, is this NOT on point of the thread?

:D
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Post by Humboldt »

Sarahnn wrote: And I wasn't calling anyone a bleeding heart liberal because they misconstrued my comment. I was referring to those who think that we should have more sympathy for the poor family running the border illegally, than the family who have complied with U.S. regulations but cant get in because of the flood of illegals.



Read the posts, Roody.
Who suggested "that we should have more sympathy for the poor family running the border illegally, than the family who have complied with U.S. regulations but cant get in because of the flood of illegals"?

No one.

Read the posts Sarahnn.
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Post by Humboldt »

Sarahnn wrote:No offense, but Study your American History and we'll talk.
Study yours, it was overwhelmingly economics that motivated people.
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Post by Sarahnn »

Humboldt wrote:How, by any stretch of your imagination, is this NOT on point of the thread?

:D
New laws in Arizona is the point of the thread. Read the very first post. k?
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Post by Humboldt »

Sarahnn wrote:New laws in Arizona is the point of the thread. Read the very first post. k?
The point of the thread is a discussion on a given topic, which you posted in.

Whatever you post, or I post, that's on topic becomes part of that discussion.

Are you that obtuse?

You made an inflammatory statement that I called you on and now you're trying to derail it by telling me to stay on topic?

jesus woman
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Post by Sarahnn »

Humboldt wrote:The point of the thread is a discussion on a given topic, which you posted in.

Whatever you post, or I post, that's on topic becomes part of that discussion.
I don't want to be a part of your discussion. I'd rather stay on issue.
Are you that obtuse?
What difference does it make? This isn't about me. Can't you move on?

You made an inflammatory statement that I called you on and now you're trying to derail it by telling me to stay on topic?

jesus woman
I redacted the statment, qualified what I meant and explained myself twice now. Are you that simple? F*k off man.
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Post by Sarahnn »

Humboldt wrote:Who suggested "that we should have more sympathy for the poor family running the border illegally, than the family who have complied with U.S. regulations but cant get in because of the flood of illegals"?

No one.

Read the posts Sarahnn.
No one had to suggest it. I made that statment to make a point.. I got this starving woman concept from another poster here, from the thread. Read the thread again, you've missed alot.
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Post by Humboldt »

Sarahnn wrote:I don't want to be a part of your discussion. I'd rather stay on issue.

What difference does it make? This isn't about me. Can't you move on?


I redacted the statment, qualified what I meant and explained myself twice now. Are you that simple? F*k off man.
MY discussion? How on earth does this shift from being a discussion about immigration and illegal aliens to MY discussion? You still haven't answered my question as to how I'm off topic.

As far as simple goes, you're just describing your own tactic here. Make statements then ridicule or insult anyone who disagrees with you.

Your true colors are showing and they're nasty.

No wonder you've had people threaten you on other sites.
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Post by Sarahnn »

Humboldt wrote:Study yours, it was overwhelmingly economics that motivated people.
The poster said that "very very few people came to America to escape persecution and tyranny." I think economics is interwoven in all immigrants dreams.
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Post by Humboldt »

Sarahnn wrote:The poster said that "very very few people came to America to escape persecution and tyranny." I think economics is interwoven in all immigrants dreams.
I agree.

But it wasn't just interwoven, it was a very key factor. The concept of even owning land was beyond the grasp of many immigrants, or of being paid a wage beyond that of one's debt.
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Post by Sarahnn »

Humboldt wrote:MY discussion? How on earth does this shift from being a discussion about immigration and illegal aliens to MY discussion? You still haven't answered my question as to how I'm off topic.

As far as simple goes, you're just describing your own tactic here. Make statements then ridicule or insult anyone who disagrees with you.

Your true colors are showing and they're nasty.
I give what I get.
No wonder you've had people threaten you on other sites.
People who try to shelter themselves from opposing views feel threatened by those who are willing to speak up and get offensive. I expect that.
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Post by Sarahnn »

Humboldt wrote:I agree.

But it wasn't just interwoven, it was a very key factor. The concept of even owning land was beyond the grasp of many immigrants, or of being paid a wage beyond that of one's debt.
Agreed, in many cases, I am willing to say that it was a key factor.
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Post by Humboldt »

Sarahnn wrote: People who try to shelter themselves from opposing views feel threatened by those who are willing to speak up and get offensive.

For kicks, look at what you just posted and see how accurately it describes your posts here.
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Post by Sarahnn »

Humboldt wrote:For kicks, look at what you just posted and see how accurately it describes your posts here.
I was fine with the opposition. I always am. I don't think anyone here is blind, or a moron, or obtuse or any of the other things I've been called here.

Although I realize that America has been called the land of opportunity, I was raised among immigrants and their friends and relatives who escaped their countries with their lives and left family and friends to be killed by forced famine and mass killings. They loved the economics here and worked hard, but I have been taught a different set of values.

Further, when we compare the Cubans and South Vietnamese to the Latinos, we see that the Mexicans have more opportunities to thrive at home than these others.

I'm whipped. Going to bed now. Thanks for your input. :confused:
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Post by CiscoKid »

Burke wrote:You're cheering your own slavery, my friend.

Once states adopt similar measures, it will extend to all citizens. All will be forced to show their IDs at any time upon request by someone in "authority."

You may find that unobtrusive since you're not illegal and not "doing anything wrong", but to me it is an affront to personal liberty.
uhhhh...they already DO ask for ID when you come in contact with authority figures...maybe it's just me and some of the people I've associated with and that I call friends. Last month, I was taking a late night walk with a friend so he could blow off steam, when I stopped to tie my shoe a cop rolled up on us and started asking both of us for ID. Granted it was 2 in the morning, but I had left my wallet at home. He ran both of our names and gave us a warning not to go out so late at night when we were just a block away from my place and told us to head back indoors. If I lived in Arizona and this happened a year from now, I'd be on a slow bus to the southern most regions or mexico or beyond
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Post by Sarahnn »

CiscoKid wrote:uhhhh...they already DO ask for ID when you come in contact with authority figures...maybe it's just me and some of the people I've associated with and that I call friends. Last month, I was taking a late night walk with a friend so he could blow off steam, when I stopped to tie my shoe a cop rolled up on us and started asking both of us for ID. Granted it was 2 in the morning, but I had left my wallet at home. He ran both of our names and gave us a warning not to go out so late at night when we were just a block away from my place and told us to head back indoors. If I lived in Arizona and this happened a year from now, I'd be on a slow bus to the southern most regions or mexico or beyond
That has happened to me and my hubby too. Some cops are pigs.
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Post by Mutch »

Sarahnn wrote:That has happened to me and my hubby too. Some cops are pigs.
Wow youre dumb. So two guys walking around at night get questioned by a cop. Yet say those same two people, who arent white go and murder someone you'd be crying that they are illegal and should be shipped off..

Im the whitest guy on the planet and I've probably been questioned at least 30 times walking around.

My impression of you is holding a beer, and a shotgun, swinging on your front porch lookin for naggers and mexis.

By the way, that was a nice 4 pages of backpeddling.
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Post by mnosteele52 »

Sarahnn wrote:That has happened to me and my hubby too. Some cops are pigs.
Think before you post, you just called some cops pigs because they question someone who is out walking at 2AM..... really? I would hope that a cop questions me if he finds me walking around my neighborhood at 2 in the morning.
:confused:
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Post by TonyT »

Common American history texts are riddled with false data and propoganda. Even college history texts omit a lot of truth. Economic opportunity is what sparked the massive immigration to the US in the 1800's and early 1900's.

The idea of America becoming populated by people seeking freedom from tyranny and oppression has been the primary concept of history texts so as to further US political goals by making is appear that everywhere else in the world people are oppressed. While this concept has some truth, the vast majority of people who came to the US did not come here seeking freedom from tyranny. Even those who came here in the 1700's later had to revolt because those same tyrannies existed here in the new land.

This thread is littered with generalities such as "they do this" and "they do that". I highly doubt anyone here actually has really known (became friends) more than a handful of Latino immigrants, legal or illegal.

Example: If one were to say, "They come here seeking handouts" would be a generality. Sure, there may have been some who have come here seeking handouts from our govt, but the majority have not done that.

The majority of immigrants, legal and illegal, are honest, trustworthy people who seek a better life here because the plain simple fact is that there is more opportunity here than in their homelands. And frankly, many of these south of the border countries are economically stricken because of US foreign policies and exploitation by US corporations over the last 100 years.

The US is partly responsible for having created this immigration issue. And who exactly IS the US? Why its thee and me of course!
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Post by JC »

More great news about the wonderful peaceful loving illegals.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/30/ar ... ot-desert/
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Post by jeremyboycool »

Mark wrote:me working in construction, i have seen them on job sites and they do not work safe, had one drop a hammer on a co-workers back once as co-worker was bent over.

plus some of them do not respect others work, like they hack my plumbing up sometimes.

leaving piss jugs on job sites, stealing tools, can't communicate in English ect.

need i go on ?

of course that can happen to anyone, but just kinda irritates me i guess.

"i have seen them on job sites"


How did you know they were here illegally?
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Post by Roody »

jeremyboycool wrote:
How did you know they were here illegally?
I was wondering that myself.
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Post by Humboldt »

JC wrote:More great news about the wonderful peaceful loving illegals.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/30/ar ... ot-desert/
No one has stated them as such or denied that there aren't problems that need to be addressed.

Fox News...now there's a joke :D
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Post by JawZ »

tonyt wrote:common american history texts are riddled with false data and propoganda. Even college history texts omit a lot of truth. Economic opportunity is what sparked the massive immigration to the us in the 1800's and early 1900's.

The idea of america becoming populated by people seeking freedom from tyranny and oppression has been the primary concept of history texts so as to further us political goals by making is appear that everywhere else in the world people are oppressed. While this concept has some truth, the vast majority of people who came to the us did not come here seeking freedom from tyranny. Even those who came here in the 1700's later had to revolt because those same tyrannies existed here in the new land.

This thread is littered with generalities such as "they do this" and "they do that". I highly doubt anyone here actually has really known (became friends) more than a handful of latino immigrants, legal or illegal.

Example: If one were to say, "they come here seeking handouts" would be a generality. Sure, there may have been some who have come here seeking handouts from our govt, but the majority have not done that.

The majority of immigrants, legal and illegal, are honest, trustworthy people who seek a better life here because the plain simple fact is that there is more opportunity here than in their homelands. And frankly, many of these south of the border countries are economically stricken because of us foreign policies and exploitation by us corporations over the last 100 years.

The us is partly responsible for having created this immigration issue. And who exactly is the us? Why its thee and me of course!

qft.
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Post by Sarahnn »

mnosteele52 wrote:Think before you post, you just called some cops pigs because they question someone who is out walking at 2AM..... really? I would hope that a cop questions me if he finds me walking around my neighborhood at 2 in the morning.
:confused:
I'm not against a cop questioning anyone. That comes with the job. I'm surprised that anyone would think that was my complaint. :wth:

What I resent is that after identifying the two men and knowing they checked out, they were told to get inside. Unless, of course, they were being told to obey a curfew that was in place already.

What happened to me was that I was driving through a small town at around 2 a.m. In order to easily get past some parked cars on a side street, I had to straddle the center line for a moment. There were no cars coming in the opposite direction (the streets were empty) and it was a safety maneuver. A cop pulled us over and asked what we were doing out at that hour. I totally understood and I was glad the cop was doing his job. We had been thinking about moving to that town, which is why we visited it so much.

But after he ran a check on us, he issued us a warning for crossing the center line to easily clear the parked cars.

Some cops abuse their authority against citizens and that's why I said that. Albeit in not so diplomatic terms. :)
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Post by Sarahnn »

Mutch wrote:Wow youre dumb. So two guys walking around at night get questioned by a cop. Yet say those same two people, who arent white go and murder someone you'd be crying that they are illegal and should be shipped off..
I see no problem with getting questioned by a cop. That's their job. Please don't call me dumb until you fully understand my point. Just ask and I'll be happy to explain. Okay, Mutch?
Im the whitest guy on the planet and I've probably been questioned at least 30 times walking around.[
What does race have to do with anything?
My impression of you is holding a beer, and a shotgun, swinging on your front porch lookin for naggers and mexis.
I can't change your impression of me. I am quite the opposite of what you imagine me as. However I see you as very judgemental and unable to give a person a chance to defend their position before you are ready to burn someone at the stake. I'd rather be me.
By the way, that was a nice 4 pages of backpeddling.
Sometimes when you say something that is misleading and gives the wrong impression a little back peddling is in order. I'm sure everyone here has done that. I wanted to be clear that I was referring to the illegals for whom Arizona passed the tougher bill. :)
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Post by jeremyboycool »

Sarahnn wrote:I see no problem with getting questioned by a cop. That's their job. Please don't call me dumb until you fully understand my point. Just ask and I'll be happy to explain. Okay, Mutch?

What does race have to do with anything?

I can't change your impression of me. I am quite the opposite of what you imagine me as. However I see you as very judgemental and unable to give a person a chance to defend their position before you are ready to burn someone at the stake. I'd rather be me.

Sometimes when you say something that is misleading and gives the wrong impression a little back peddling is in order. I'm sure everyone here has done that. I wanted to be clear that I was referring to the illegals for whom Arizona passed the tougher bill. :)

"Sometimes when you say something that is misleading and gives the wrong impression a little back peddling is in order."


What you said was just awful, not "misleading".

I don't think you are racist, Sarahnn, but I think you like to stir things up and that is why you say things like that. My guess, is that you do it for attention, shock value and because you like to argue. Whether it is conscious or subconscious I don't know but you flip-flop on topics so readily that it is clear you have no interest in a fruitful discussion.
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