Excellent Pro-Life video - Imagine (NBC rejected Superbowl vid)

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:54 pm

[YOUTUBE]V2CaBR3z85c[/YOUTUBE]

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:29 am

Powerful stuff.

jeremyboycool · Post by **jeremyboycool** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:56 am

Seems a little shallow to me. It's all well and good to be pro-choice/life, but you'd think that it should be more in depth then think of the potential.

I mean think of the potential is also a pro-choice argument.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:07 am

What I love about it is that it's anti-establishment. In my old age, I'm finding that I'm more pro-life but more anti-government intervention.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:10 am

...Riiight. If I had any movie editing skills, it would be so easy to edit in Hitler instead of Obama and have the exact same message.

You don't make major life altering decisions on the basis of "Well, this could happen." That's insanity. You make major life altering decisions after long thought, planning, and finally a decision where the outcome is almost certain. And you certainly don't consider a clump of cells when you do!

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:24 am

"Clump of cells"

the disregard for human life is frightening these days

If you want the right to kill babies, I want the right to kill adults that kill those babies

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:55 am

Brent wrote:"Clump of cells"

the disregard for human life is frightening these days

If you want the right to kill babies, I want the right to kill adults that kill those babies

If you get the right to kill those adults I want the right to kill American Idol contestants.

loop2kil · Post by **loop2kil** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:02 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:If you get the right to kill those adults I want the right to kill American Idol contestants.

except for bikini girl...she was hot

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:20 pm

Never mind, don't want to insult folks beliefs

I do agree if you are going to think of potential, you may as well put Dahmer in there also

Humboldt · Post by **Humboldt** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:09 pm

Brent wrote: If you want the right to kill babies, I want the right to kill adults that kill those babies

Brent, in your opinion at what point does the transition from clump of cells to baby occur?

Is there a point in time that an abortion would be ok?

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:11 pm

Paft wrote:You make major life altering decisions after long thought, planning, and finally a decision where the outcome is almost certain. And you certainly don't consider a clump of cells when you do!

Those actions never seem to enter the minds of the promiscuous until it becomes a "life-altering" decision. Whose life it alters or ends is a decision that will last forever. Throwing out morality and good decision making might make folks feel less guilty, but no less accountable.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:46 pm

De Plano wrote:Never mind, don't want to insult folks beliefs

I do agree if you are going to think of potential, you may as well put Dahmer in there also

I don't follow the rationalization of abortion with potentially abhorrent behavior. We can't predict bad behavior yet. If you say we can't predict good behavior, then are we all bad but constrained by morality to act good? This brings up the entire are we all inherently good or evil debate.

there are many tests that are performed on fetuses to detect abnormalities. What happens when we get to the point where other abnormal traits/behaviors can be predicted? For example, homosexuality. Do we cleanse the gene pool of those traits through abortion? The top 5 serial killers were all homosexuals...and most serial killers in general were homosexual/bisexual/lesbians. So I don't understand why the homosexual community would rationalize the debate over potentially bad bahavior. Logically it works against them...especially when there are homosexual Catholics.

Potential is the key word here. Does potential speak to behavior or achievement? Do we live in fear of potential of do we live in anticipation of and work towards achievement?

Again, what I love about this video is that it causes great debate....on our level. I will fight to the death to defend your right to have your own beliefs. I do not believe in granting this right to the government. I can easily defend your rights, your right to live, your right to die, your right to have an abortion, your right to be a homosexual and to marry.....but I don't have to agree with your beliefs.

IMO, abortion is not a function of government.

Is that a reasonable approach to the matter?

David · Post by **David** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:47 pm

De Plano wrote:Never mind, don't want to insult folks beliefs

I do agree if you are going to think of potential, you may as well put Dahmer in there also

The premise being that no situation is so hopeless that abortion is justifiable.

Not that I share the perspective, but it is quite understandable.

RoscoPColtrane · Post by **RoscoPColtrane** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:03 pm

Brent wrote:"Clump of cells"

the disregard for human life is frightening these days

You got that right. This country's morals are so screw up its not even funny...

Humboldt · Post by **Humboldt** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:20 pm

RoscoPColtrane wrote:You got that right. This country's morals are so screw up its not even funny...

Same unanswered question I asked Brent, is there a point at which an abortion is ok? How about the day-after pill?

Not arguing, it's a serious question.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:31 pm

RoscoPColtrane wrote:You got that right. This country's morals are so screw up its not even funny...

Or a difference of when we consider the fetus a person.

ub3r_n00b · Post by **ub3r_n00b** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:19 pm

The choice should be there for women (and it should not be the role of the government to intervene), but just because it is there doesn't mean you should have to exercise it. I think people are attacking it from the wrong angle. If you don't believe in abortion, then simply don't have one if you are in that situation - that is the best form of protest. Silent and effective. Education is the key.

Yes, ok, the fetus is a human (or whatever the hell your argument is) but at least by allowing these facilities to be open you are allowing it to be done safely instead of having someone come to your house and do it black market style. Removing the facilities will not stop abortion, it will just make it more dangerous and profitable. If you need examples of how government regulation generally doesn't work, look at the drug market, prohibition, guns, etc.

Additionally, from a male perspective, I realize that I am not a woman and I do not understand what they would be going through in that situation - so, personally, I should not be able to make that decision for them. Yes, men are a part of the equation, but the baby is inside of the woman, the woman gives birth, etc. So, as a male, all you can do is strongly disagree with their choice if they choose to have one and state that you will support her and the child, but, if she elects to have the abortion, that is NOT in your domain.

Finally, use a condom, problem will not happen.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:38 pm

ub3r_n00b wrote:The choice should be there for women (and it should not be the role of the government to intervene), but just because it is there doesn't mean you should have to exercise it.

EXACTLY!!!!

Holy ****, someone who understands the ENTIRE POINT of the pro-CHOICE movement! It's not "pro-baby-killing" for crissakes! It's pro-CHOICE! Giving women, the ONLY SENTIENT BEINGS involved in the equation, the right to CHOOSE their own path. Be it giving birth and raising the child, adopting the child out, or removing the clump of cells / fetus from her body before it is born and BECOMES a child.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:39 pm

Brent wrote:"Clump of cells"

the disregard for human life is frightening these days

If you want the right to kill babies, I want the right to kill adults that kill those babies

Pro-choice isn't giving anyone the "right to kill babies". It's the right to have the choice of halting the process of development of a fetus BEFORE it becomes a baby/child/infant/what-have-you. That's all that it is.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:44 pm

RoscoPColtrane wrote:You got that right. This country's morals are so screw up its not even funny...

Right, of course, I forgot - we should go back to the good old days where women could be raped and murdered and nobody would give a **** because they weren't considered citizens. Where women were left forgotten in houses while their husbands ran off and ****ed everything with two legs because that was morally acceptable, and even encouraged. But hey, the dutiful wife couldn't dare have a mind of her own because that would be sinful and against god's will, don't'cha know - the man is the head of the household, right?

You and everyone who believes like you are the entire reason that women's liberation and women's rights had to be fought for so damn hard, and still do! You and your ilk, the good ol' boys club, treat women like **** and feel like that's ok to do!

Get the **** out of my country.

ub3r_n00b · Post by **ub3r_n00b** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:49 pm

Paft, chill dude..

Additionally, if someone thinks that a "countries" morals are screwed up then you can only blame yourself, you elected the government, explicitly by voting or implicitly by not voting. A government is a function of its people.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:56 pm

ub3r_n00b wrote:Paft, chill dude..

Additionally, if someone thinks that a "countries" morals are screwed up then you can only blame yourself, you elected the government, explicitly by voting or implicitly by not voting. A government is a function of its people.

I am so sick and tired of these ignorant jackasses who think they're so damn special just because they have the "Almighty Penis" and/or their "God" on their side trying to pass judgement on women for making the choices that they feel like they have to in life. They talk about the declining morals in society, and yet won't take the time to look at their own lives or belief structures to see how damaging they are, no, instead they just pass judgement on everyone else and act all superior and perfect. So no, I'm not going to chill out, because why should I (a decent human being) stand by and let evil people have the soapbox?

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:12 pm

Paft wrote:EXACTLY!!!!

Holy ****, someone who understands the ENTIRE POINT of the pro-CHOICE movement! It's not "pro-baby-killing" for crissakes! It's pro-CHOICE! Giving women, the ONLY SENTIENT BEINGS involved in the equation, the right to CHOOSE their own path. Be it giving birth and raising the child, adopting the child out, or removing the clump of cells / fetus from her body before it is born and BECOMES a child.

For goodness sakes Paft, who are you talking to? You think you just enlightened anyone? Of course it is a "Mother's choice" and NO, the Government should not have to get or be involved in the matter. My belief is, try not to put yourself in the position to begin with and THEN claim you have rights to abort the "Clump of cells".

Am I being to simple in thinking that maybe a heartbeat = life? Having your brains sucked out of your skull might even hurt when you are nothing but a clump! Anyone been there?

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:20 pm

RoscoPColtrane wrote:You got that right. This country's morals are so screw up its not even funny...

Abortion is one topic that can really get me fired up cause it advocates murder of an innocent baby who has absolutely no control in the matter. Who are we to play God. It is ok to kill babies, but we have laws that protect killing adults, it is messed up.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:22 pm

Humboldt wrote:Brent, in your opinion at what point does the transition from clump of cells to baby occur?

Is there a point in time that an abortion would be ok?

There is never a point in which abortion would be ok.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:31 pm

Paft wrote:Right, of course, I forgot - we should go back to the good old days where women could be raped and murdered and nobody would give a **** because they weren't considered citizens. Where women were left forgotten in houses while their husbands ran off and ****ed everything with two legs because that was morally acceptable, and even encouraged. But hey, the dutiful wife couldn't dare have a mind of her own because that would be sinful and against god's will, don't'cha know - the man is the head of the household, right?

You and everyone who believes like you are the entire reason that women's liberation and women's rights had to be fought for so damn hard, and still do! You and your ilk, the good ol' boys club, treat women like **** and feel like that's ok to do!

Get the **** out of my country.

You have completely twisted the intent for your own purpose and done nothing but thrown a tantrum. You think because some are against needless abortion that they rape women and cheat on their wives, or that they believe women are any less human beings than men? I haven't heard you speak such crap since you were 15. Passion is one thing, babble is another.

I had a young Marine working for me who made a bad decision and got a girl pregnant. She had 2 other children by 2 other Fathers and had already had 2 abortions. He panicked and gave her $400 to get another abortion because he was engaged to his high school sweetheart and feared the worst. Unknown to him she did not get the abortion because the Doctor told her she should not abort any more fetuses for medical reasons. Fast forward 2 years later when she came knocking on the door for child support. She now had 4 kids and wanted money! He asked for a DNA test and it was his child. By this time he and his wife had children and this really rocked their world. He ended up getting custody of this boy, adopted him and he is now a 17 year old kid with a good head on his shoulders. He can't even think about wanting to snuff his life out without feeling like an Idiot.

What the hell does that have to do with immoral, lawless, low life men who act like idiots and abuse women? You think that came to a screeching halt with Roe vs. Wade?

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:50 pm

I have to concur with Leatherneck here Paft. I understand it's a passionate subject, but just because someone disagrees with the idea of pro-choice doesn't mean they endorse the scenarios you suggest with your remarks. Nor does it mean they are ignorant for being pro-life.

Humboldt · Post by **Humboldt** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:57 pm

Brent wrote:There is never a point in which abortion would be ok.

No exceptions at all?

Unprotected sex aside, what of those who intentionally conceive but are later told that carrying the child to term might be life-threatening to them?

Rape victims and victims of sexual abuse?

Women told their child will have serious mental or physical disabilities?

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:00 pm

Leatherneck wrote:Am I being to simple in thinking that maybe a heartbeat = life?

But we don't practice that. Look what we do to other forms of life, but suddenly it becomes a human's life and the rules change drastically.

And they aren't consistent.

Its an issue that I don't ever expect to see resolved.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:10 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:But we don't practice that. Look what we do to other forms of life, but suddenly it becomes a human's life and the rules change drastically.

And they aren't consistent.

Its an issue that I don't ever expect to see resolved.

Shame isn't it. Maybe we should all at least have the right to look into the eyes of someone who would take our life?

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:13 pm

Leatherneck wrote:Shame isn't it. Maybe we should all at least have the right to look into the eyes of someone who would take our life?

That's deep man

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:14 pm

Humboldt wrote:No exceptions at all?

Unprotected sex aside, what of those who intentionally conceive but are later told that carrying the child to term might be life-threatening to them?

Rape victims and victims of sexual abuse?

Women told their child will have serious mental or physical disabilities?

Human Life is Human Life, doesn't matter how it comes about.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:16 pm

Leatherneck wrote:Shame isn't it. Maybe we should all at least have the right to look into the eyes of someone who would take our life?

Thats never been a big deal for me, Im not much into eye contact. I'd be more for we all get a chance to be just as sneaky and try to kill our killers.

"at least have the right to look into the eyes of someone who would take our life"

It may sound good, for those that just didn't take precautions, but then what about the situations where the mothers life is in danger as well, or rape like have been mentioned before, or other horrific situations like that?

It doesn't have the same pull then.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:21 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Thats never been a big deal for me, Im not much into eye contact. I'd be more for we all get a chance to be just as sneaky and try to kill our killers.

"at least have the right to look into the eyes of someone who would take our life"

It may sound good, for those that just didn't take precautions, but then what about the situations where the mothers life is in danger as well, or rape like have been mentioned before, or other horrific situations like that?

It doesn't have the same pull then.

No it does not. It's called Human with all its flaunting flaws.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:22 pm

Back to the mentally handicapped question, no way should you abort a baby just because of this. Steven Hawking is mentally handicapped, look what would he has accomplished with his life, now imagine if his mother decided to abort him because she knew he would end up like that. The problem is we think we have the power to play God. If a child is going to be mentally handicapped deal with it, you've got that child for a reason, love that child, they can still do great things with their lives.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:29 pm

Leatherneck wrote:No it does not. It's called Human with all its flaunting flaws.

Seems the more time passes, the more flaws we have available to us.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:37 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Seems the more time passes, the more flaws we have available to us.

What! You mean Evolution don't work???????? Oops, that's another can-O-worms...

Humboldt · Post by **Humboldt** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:53 pm

Brent wrote:Back to the mentally handicapped question, no way should you abort a baby just because of this. Steven Hawking is mentally handicapped, look what would he has accomplished with his life, now imagine if his mother decided to abort him because she knew he would end up like that. The problem is we think we have the power to play God. If a child is going to be mentally handicapped deal with it, you've got that child for a reason, love that child, they can still do great things with their lives.

Not saying an abortion should occur just because of mental handicaps, just that in some cases I feel it may be a viable option.

If my sister is raped, or yours, should she have no choice but to give birth?

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:58 pm

Leatherneck wrote:What! You mean Evolution don't work???????? Oops, that's another can-O-worms...

Evolution doesn't mean only positive evolution.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:03 pm

Humboldt wrote:Not saying an abortion should occur just because of mental handicaps, just that in some cases I feel it may be a viable option.

If my sister is raped, or yours, should she have no choice but to give birth?

She should have a choice. We should all have the freedom to speak our minds about it on a social scale. We should reject government intrusion into the debate.

Personally, I would rather have a bunch of religious folks breathing down my neck in opposition than having our government TELL me what to do.