Is the US still a democracy?

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:59 pm

Maybe it's gravitating towards an oligarchy or corporatocracy? I ask because of the competing interests. On one hand, we have the mighty military/industrial complex....but on the other, we have the huge corporate powers.

Even so, has capitalism given rise to "power or rule by the few"? With so many Americans feeling disenfranchised, I think it's worth a discussion.

To me, we have the people vs the system. To me, that's a bad sign because we are supposed to be in charge of the system.

chimdogger · Post by **chimdogger** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:23 pm

I vote yes...

But my vote only counts towards a electoral college process that is antiquated and not representative of a true democracy.

frostybear · Post by **frostybear** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:23 pm

no...and also you would be suprised on how much the corporates work with the military industrial complex so they are not as competing as it may seem.

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:24 pm

I don't know that the US was ever a true democracy since not all of our votes directly impact the results of every election (the specific example I'm talking about is the presidential election). I'm ok with that, though, since a strict Democracy is majority rule and the majority's opinion may not always be the right thing to do.

I suppose I would argue that our current system is someplace between a Republic and an Oligarchy. It's rare, these days, that someone runs for office without already being wealthy or famous so , in my mind, it isn't strictly a Republic.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:56 pm

UOD wrote: To me, we have the people vs the system. To me, that's a bad sign because we are supposed to be in charge of the system.

We lost that a looooong long time ago. And even then, wasn't really there as much as you think.

Mighty Military on one hand..versus corporate on the other hand? I'd say it's just one hand..and it's corporate. Perhaps once in a rare while..corporate wears a mask of the military.

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:06 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:while..corporate wears a mask of the military.

Halliburton? Is that you??????

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:07 pm

MadDoctor wrote:Halliburton? Is that you??????

Gin, or Vodka..tonight!

BroncoSport · Post by **BroncoSport** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:29 pm

Never was a democracy. The United States has been a representive republic since 1776.

JC · Post by JC » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:32 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:We lost that a looooong long time ago. And even then, wasn't really there as much as you think.

Mighty Military on one hand..versus corporate on the other hand? I'd say it's just one hand..and it's corporate. Perhaps once in a rare while..corporate wears a mask of the military.

I see the main problem as politicians by in large have a quest for power. They refuse to give up this quest. Politicians will instill whatever "vote buying programs" necessary to achieve this goal. Weather it be raising taxes, or slowly taking away our rights. The other problem is "we" the voters are letting this happen.

JC · Post by JC » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:32 pm

BroncoSport wrote:Never was a democracy. The United States has been a representive republic since 1776.

ding ding ding!

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:51 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:Gin, or Vodka..tonight!

Vodka would be nice.

You got anything in your cellar better than that $5/gal you had last time? My head still hurts!!!!!

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:08 pm

UOD-

Also take into consideration the times we live in now. Technology plays into this, a recession also has a hand in this.

YouTube for instance. Wanna break some really smoking news? Pop it up on YouTube, digg it, twitter, gtalk, trillian...a whole horde of IM technolgy WILL get it onto many thousands of hard drives before "THE GOVERNMENT" can shut it down. Nothing in the 50/60/70/80 and to an extent the 90s could pull that off. Could you even begin to explain the nature of the internet to someone from the 1960s? It would befuddle them to no end. Since that ability exists we are exposed to more information in an hour (if we choose to exploit the outlets) than a political activist could muster up in a week in the 50s. It becomes a matter of having decent filters. Often our outlook guides our news outlet choices, a bit of pre-determined fate I guess. Looking for fact X to support theory B? Chances are you'll find some morsel to strengthen your case.

Back to the current slump/economy swirling the toilet. People are going to be MORE disenfranchised right now of course. Money is tight for more folks and gripes begin to coalesce and form a national voice. Inertia drives that voice to some extent as well. One one hand it's prudent to read the pulse of the nation and gauge how to react. On the other....well using your noggin and being an independent thinker is essential. Level-headed maybe?

It's am odd pickle, something I don't purport to understand in it's full essence. In some ways nothing has changed, we have a ruling "class" that seeks to use the middle class as a ticket to riches. As I see it, the ruling class knows better than to grind the workers up to the point the workers stop being a nice meal ticket. The working class also plays this game in being mouthy and belligerent when the chips are down and blissfully ignorant when times are bountiful. Cat and mouse.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:46 pm

MadDoctor wrote:Vodka would be nice.

You got anything in your cellar better than that $5/gal you had last time? My head still hurts!!!!!

"Anything in my cellar?"

Why yes...yes I do. Things like a torture rack from the Spanish Inquisition, various cuffs 'n chains, and a goosefeather boa.

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:36 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:"Anything in my cellar?" Why yes...yes I do. Things like a torture rack from the Spanish Inquisition, various cuffs 'n chains, and a goosefeather boa.

I have the boa. I will send it back for a pair of chaps.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:37 pm

Lefty wrote:I have the boa. I will send it back for a pair of chaps.

Solid brown, zebra, or black 'n white cow pattern?

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:41 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:a torture rack from the Spanish Inquisition, various cuffs 'n chains, and a goosefeather boa.

If a picture could express my feelings.... this would be it.

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:41 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:Solid brown, zebra, or black 'n white cow pattern?

yes

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:44 pm

MadDoctor wrote:If a picture could express my feelings.... this would be it.

oh if only Croc were still alive... I bet he is chuckling from somwhere

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:44 pm

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:04 pm

Randy wrote:oh if only Croc were still alive... I bet he is chuckling from somwhere

I'm sure he is!

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:09 pm

MadDoctor wrote:I'm sure he is!

yeah sg as viewd by Croc

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JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:45 pm

BroncoSport wrote:Never was a democracy. The United States has been a representive republic since 1776.

We employ the democratic process within the framework of a representative republic. But special interests have invaded that framework.

the Federalist Papers warned against this very thing. With the separation of powers...the legislative branch is almost too free, and each one is prone to corruption. Look at corporate law and how federal law promotes the corporatocracy that I spoke of earlier.

Obviously, there can be too much or too little government.

I think that promoting democracy abroad should stop being coupled with free trade for starters.

David · Post by **David** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:50 pm

UOD,

Freedom is paradoxical, since it must be protected by constraints. Regardless, the most powerful of corporate/cartels will find their way to control, whether directly or via a venal government.