School Choice

JC · Post by JC » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:42 pm

I was reading this article and figured I would ask the question.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/a ... rcID=32368

What do you think about school choice?

I myself would love to have it, or a Tax credit or something. As of right now I spend over 20K per year

for my 2 boys to attend private school. The reason I do that is the government schools are failing. In the end I'll do whatever I have to do to give my boys a good education!

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:33 pm

I think the public education system needs to be fixed up in general, but Im not for the couchers thing. You want ur kid to go to private school then you pay for it. Not all public schools are bad, and I don't think private schools are that much better.

JC · Post by JC » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:48 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:I think the public education system needs to be fixed up in general, but Im not for the couchers thing. You want ur kid to go to private school then you pay for it. Not all public schools are bad, and I don't think private schools are that much better.

Why shouldn't the people who pay the TAXES decide where they think their children would be best educated?

CableDude · Post by **CableDude** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:01 pm

JC wrote:I spend over 20K per year for my 2 boys to attend private school.

JC · Post by JC » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:08 pm

CableDude wrote:

That's just Tuition. Not all the other Bull*****!

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:21 pm

JC wrote:Why shouldn't the people who pay the TAXES decide where they think their children would be best educated?

Because those people are biased

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:26 pm

JC wrote:Why shouldn't the people who pay the TAXES decide where they think their children would be best educated?

isn't that what you did ?

you did make a choice as a taxpayer,didn't you ?

and sorry,but I agree that private schools are not necessarily better at educating than many public schools,

my kids went to public school,and my daughter just graduated hs with honors at 3.6 gpa.

blebs · Post by **blebs** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:20 am

As far as public schools go, you should live here. Canton city has a very poor report card and here where I am, one of the highest report cards in the state. Not all public schools are bad.

JC · Post by JC » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:57 am

Dan wrote:isn't that what you did ?

you did make a choice as a taxpayer,didn't you ?

and sorry,but I agree that private schools are not necessarily better at educating than many public schools,

my kids went to public school,and my daughter just graduated hs with honors at 3.6 gpa.

I never said Private schools were better! Some are, some not so much.

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:01 am

About 50% of my high school friends went to some of the most elite private schools across Mayland. All had aquired some kind of addiction before even hitting the 12th grade.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:02 am

One cannot generalize the "public versus private" school debate. There are many factors to consider, one of the biggest...specifically which schools is someone talking about..and that's the choices available to them..in their little town.

For a parent that really gets involved....even within a town...in larger towns there are often several public schools available...one or two standing away above the others. So a private school could be much better than say...the not so good one or two public schools that are poorly run...but yet on the other hand...the other one or two public schools that are fantastic..may be equal to or better than the private school.

Gotta hunker down and look at the details.

Also it's amazing to see what a change can come to a bad school under a good new principle.

Other times..the public choices are poor in a town. Where I grew up...the one single public high school sucked. I was on my college prep course...and this public high school just didn't cut the mustard. Wasn't known for turning out graduates that would go to the better colleges. I went to a private high school instead. It was good for my parents to have that choice.

Back to original topic....at first...I'd not want to take funds away from the public schools, which vouchers would do. But after thinking about it for a few...would it make them get better solely for the purpose of survival?

David · Post by **David** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:02 am

Public schools are funded predominately by local property taxes (varying state by state, of course). There should be little surprise that better schools exist in areas with commensurate higher taxes.

Woodstock GA...... 350,000 assessed...... 1500 per annum tax
Clinton NJ..... 350,000 assessed...... 11,000 per annum tax

blebs · Post by **blebs** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:58 am

David wrote:Public schools are funded predominately by local property taxes (varying state by state, of course). There should be little surprise that better schools exist in areas with commensurate higher taxes.

Woodstock GA...... 350,000 assessed...... 1500 per annum tax
Clinton NJ..... 350,000 assessed...... 11,000 per annum tax

I'm sure that's true across the board.

Locally here, the tax base is about the same for both cities and there is a huge difference in the quality of education between school districts. Again, a local thing here.

My city: http://www.homefair.com/real-estate/sch ... ?City=7451
Canton City: http://www.homefair.com/real-estate/sch ... ?City=1601

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:27 am

JC wrote:I never said Private schools were better!

LOL then why spend 20k on it ?

maybe that 20k would be better put away for college expenses

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:35 am

i think if the child is smart enough and REALLY wants to learn, the school does not matter.

David · Post by **David** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:39 am

Gixxer wrote:i think if the child is smart enough and REALLY wants to learn, the school does not matter.

True, to a point. Of course, having the resources to provide the education and the instructors who teach and inspire would be critical.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:41 am

David wrote:True, to a point. Of course, having the resources to provide the education and the instructors who teach and inspire would be critical.

I agree 100%.

Shagster · Post by **Shagster** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:43 am

I think public schools should be payed for by the people who have their kids in them.

The first public school I went to was Georgia Tech. K5 through 12th and my first college were all private. My mom paid out the ass for that to happen.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:54 am

David wrote:True, to a point. Of course, having the resources to provide the education and the instructors who teach and inspire would be critical.

i think most schools have what they need for the child to get what they need, IF, they go and get it.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:56 am

David wrote:True, to a point. Of course, having the resources to provide the education and the instructors who teach and inspire would be critical.

on a side note, home schooling does not have near all things they have in a school and there are some that are way smarter than people who go to public or private schools. having said that, i agree with only part of what you said.

David · Post by **David** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:40 pm

Gixxer wrote:i think most schools have what they need for the child to get what they need, IF, they go and get it.

Sadly, many school systems have teachers who are little more than glorified baby sitters. They are either jaded from a dysfunctional environment or outright corrupt and lazy. Resources and materials are also an issue. Imagine your books listing 9 moons circling Saturn or noting the Cold War as a current event. Although computers and cell phones have become ubiquitous, they are not in everyone's hands and not all have the wherewithal to utilized them correctly.

I concur that a preternaturally driven youngster has an excellent chance to succeed based on innate resourcefulness. It might be argued that many brilliant children do not, in consideration of there timidity.

be well,
david

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:52 pm

Gixxer wrote:i think most schools have what they need for the child to get what they need, IF, they go and get it.

most, not all, and that's a problem. there are situations where kids can get screwed when transferring from affluent to not-as-affluent areas. trust me on that one.

not all public schools are horrible and not all private schools are great. the difference in choosing to put your kid in a private school now and paying for it is that you get no credit for the taxes you pay, which would normally pay for your child(ren) to go to school in a local public school. the thought here is if the private school is good, then one should be able to put their kid in it and put at least some of the money they would be putting into a public school into their child's education at said private school. i have to agree with this line of reasoning.

i disagree that kids who "want to learn" will learn regardless. think about it, you're in a poor neighborhood and you're not being challenged and so you don't strive to achieve more. there are, of course, always exceptions to this, but, IMO, by and large people need to be challenged to grow.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:57 pm

Gixxer wrote:i think most schools have what they need for the child to get what they need, IF, they go and get it.

As David put it above in his reply.......so much is up to the teachers. A handful of bum teachers can ruin things kids...which become victims of the teachers laziness...or lack of good teaching skills.

Lazi teachers usually settle to jobs in school systems where the administration is lazy. Better quality teachers often manage to land jobs in great school systems...with progressive administration.

One cannot make a generalization about public schools...there are too many variables. On my job...I've seen, up close, an incredible amount of schools..spending lots of time in many of them...and spending time with the staff. The differences I see from school to school are amazing. Very much amazing. Sadly..there are many schools where I feel bad for the kids who attend those schools. Even the most ambitious of young kids with an eager mind can be nulled.

On the contrary...some absolutely fantastic schools...sometimes you'll see the rare teacher than can turn around even the most stubborn kid.

Home schooling? I feel it "can" lead to a shortage of social skills in the kid...which will produce awkwardness down the road. Produce "booksmarts"...yes. But it's difficult to live on booksmarts alone.

Which high school you come from also can carry weight as to which college may accept you. Higher end continued educational facilities may favor a kid that got a B- average at a top notch prepschool....versus a kid that got an A+ at a public HS...simply because of the level of difficulty in educational challenges.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:17 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:As David put it above in his reply.......so much is up to the teachers. A handful of bum teachers can ruin things kids...which become victims of the teachers laziness...or lack of good teaching skills.

Lazi teachers usually settle to jobs in school systems where the administration is lazy. Better quality teachers often manage to land jobs in great school systems...with progressive administration.

One cannot make a generalization about public schools...there are too many variables. On my job...I've seen, up close, an incredible amount of schools..spending lots of time in many of them...and spending time with the staff. The differences I see from school to school are amazing. Very much amazing. Sadly..there are many schools where I feel bad for the kids who attend those schools. Even the most ambitious of young kids with an eager mind can be nulled.

On the contrary...some absolutely fantastic schools...sometimes you'll see the rare teacher than can turn around even the most stubborn kid.

Home schooling? I feel it "can" lead to a shortage of social skills in the kid...which will produce awkwardness down the road. Produce "booksmarts"...yes. But it's difficult to live on booksmarts alone.

Which high school you come from also can carry weight as to which college may accept you. Higher end continued educational facilities may favor a kid that got a B- average at a top notch prepschool....versus a kid that got an A+ at a public HS...simply because of the level of difficulty in educational challenges.

the mothers that are teaching in house are not "certified". i do agree that it is too easy to be a teacher as some of the routines/schooling are not strenous enough to make them really be a teacher.

JC · Post by JC » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:08 pm

Dan wrote:LOL then why spend 20k on it ?

maybe that 20k would be better put away for college expenses

In my case, Private Schools are exponentially better than the government schools. I had to make a decision, and it was to make sure my kids had the best education I could provide. It might give them an edge in college.

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:27 pm

Gixxer wrote:i think if the child is smart enough and REALLY wants to learn, the school does not matter.

Not for me. I breezed thru public schools, hardly ever cracking a book open. When I got tossed into a private school I had actually take an interest in what was going on to make the grade.

I was in all the honors and AP classes in public school too, making pretty much staright As. My first semester at private school I was barely scraping a 2.0, that's when I realized I had to do some work to get the grades.

The big difference being that my largest class was all of 8 people, and the teachers (most being PhDs or masters with aims to get PhDs) could keep the interest level up AND make sure eveyone was challenged. My senior year analytical chemistry class was...ME. That's it, needless to say my teacher knew what I was up to and kept me hopping (was an AP course for chem)

Another big factor is the attitude of the school, overall. The kids going there, pretty much wanted to be there. The teachers were blessed with kids that didn't wanna knife the guy two rows over and were more interested in learning rather than banging. Common sense ruled, petty "rules" were mostly guidlines so freedom was paramount. The school was designed to make kids feel safe and secure while still allowing for some self-determination.

koldchillah · Post by **koldchillah** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:55 pm

We already have school choice. Either go to free public school or pay to go to private school, simple as that. Those that send their kids to private school can afford the tuition and I'm sure they can afford their taxes too. So where's the issue?

I went to both public and private school and received an excellent education from both institutions.

I'm against the voucher idea b/c it's pointless and is merely a band-aid rather than a real solution. The public education system needs to be upgraded, not ignored. Ignoring the system will only lessen the already low confidence the American public has in the system.

If we don't fix it, then eventually you won't be able to get a good education in the system at all which would obviously lead to a massive shortage of competent American workers in our future workforce. Do we really need more incompetence in this country? Our public education system is falling behind other nations and yet people sit and wonder why they're taking our jobs! C'mon people! Put on your thinking caps! *beats head against the wall

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:00 am

I put my kids in the middle they are in public school. they are doing great but I've to spent more time to learn about the school and find the areas that fail the children. Even tonight we worked on handwriting. It means I have to spend more time with the kids which IMO is a good thing

My kids learn that the education system is not perfect which can be misconceived in a private school setting. I encourage them in what they excel in ( hockey and math for the boy) and will put out extra cash for that as long they put effort and improve there weaker areas.

Just trying to raise them into good classy respected people, not an ******* from harvard with a degree in law who never bonded with Dad bcz he was submerged in private school with career expectations planned before his birth.

I'm not sAying private school is a bad thing . I'm just saying its not the answer to the best education.

Being involved with there education is important and not just spending the money.