California ban on same-sex marriage struck down

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Fri May 16, 2008 7:18 pm

Brent wrote:How can anyone force anyone, really, unless you hold them at gunpoint and shoot them if they don't. All we can do on this forum is have very heated debates, I can't force anyone to do anything, and same with you.

Basing US law strictly on one religious text forces people to subscribe to a system of beliefs. If one goes outside said belief system, they can go to jail or possibly be shot trying to stand up for their own (reasonable) beliefs. I'm not talking about true criminal acts here, but things like saying the topic of this thread.

64bit · Post by **64bit** » Fri May 16, 2008 7:34 pm

jasonb31 wrote:The bible is written word for word by God for a very good reason. All that is and will ever be is in the bible. You, Me and my dog. The bible says that only toward the very end will we know that the end is near. Why? The bible is encoded and is slowly being opened for all to see by computers.

David · Post by **David** » Fri May 16, 2008 7:51 pm

Brent wrote:but certainly some things he must control, like maintaining the integrity of his texts, else things would really get warped, isn't it interesting the Bible has been the same for 2000 years, that right there shows divine intervention

i believe that God and the holy spirit maintain the integrity of the bible throughout translations, God does not let what needs to be said removed, changed, altered or additions made that are untrue, it is through this belief that the Bible said what it said then, and still means what it meant then, now

What are your thoughts on the Gospels of Judas and Barnabas, or any of the other New Testament Apocrypha?

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Fri May 16, 2008 8:03 pm

Brent wrote:so, if I get this straight, you do not believe God is sovereign and able to control, well, everything

nope, nor can you prove it.

David · Post by **David** » Fri May 16, 2008 8:06 pm

It is nearly impossible to convince another person that their deeply held beliefs are somehow incorrect. Such epiphanies occur from experience and introspection. Tolerance is a somewhat of a bitter medicine, we swallow it with disdain. Better to research and have dialog with what and whom you share antipathy, so at least preconceptions and prejudices may be mollified. If the contempt still exists, discover a manner in which you might diminish its importance, rather than let it overwhelm your being.

Even Spock learn to ignore the pain being delivered by the space amoebas

frostybear · Post by **frostybear** » Fri May 16, 2008 8:46 pm

Brent wrote:but certainly some things he must control, like maintaining the integrity of his texts, else things would really get warped, isn't it interesting the Bible has been the same for 2000 years, that right there shows divine intervention

i believe that God and the holy spirit maintain the integrity of the bible throughout translations, God does not let what needs to be said removed, changed, altered or additions made that are untrue, it is through this belief that the Bible said what it said then, and still means what it meant then, now

It isn't, it has gone through and passed down from the hands of MEN and written by MEN. There is a reason why there is King James Version, they were trying to fixed perceived problems with earlier translations. He instructed translators to guarantee that the new version would conform to the current church of englands ( at the time ) structure and beliefs.

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Fri May 16, 2008 8:47 pm

jasonb31 wrote:Because we decent people are sick and tired off our country being ruined by crap like this.

YOS, I want a serious reply to how we can change a law and idea that was made by god in the first place? Come on, Not one person would even have the idea of marriage if it were not for the bible so how do you think that some judge has the power to change a law made by God himself. Say that you know for 100 percent sure that yes he is real. Don't you think he is going to be a little angry at that?

128. If a man has taken a wife and has not executed a marriage contract, that woman is not a wife.

# 129. If a man's wife be caught lying with another, they shall be strangled and cast into the water. If the wife's husband would save his wife, the king can save his servant.

# 130. If a man has ravished another's betrothed wife, who is a virgin, while still living in her father's house, and has been caught in the act, that man shall be put to death; the woman shall go free.

# 131. If a man's wife has been accused by her husband, and has not been caught lying with another, she shall swear her innocence, and return to her house.

# 132. If a man's wife has the finger pointed at her on account of another, but has not been caught lying with him, for her husband's sake she shall plunge into the sacred river.

Code of Hammurabi

Than the Code of Ur-Nammu

* 1. If a man commits a murder, that man must be killed.
* 2. If a man commits a robbery, he will be killed.
* 3. If a man commits a kidnapping, he is to be imprisoned and pay 15 shekels of silver.
* 4. If a slave marries a slave, and that slave is set free, he does not leave the household.
* 5. If a slave marries a native (i.e. free) person, he/she is to hand the firstborn son over to his owner.
* 6. If a man violates the right of another and deflowers the virgin wife of a young man, they shall kill that male.
* 7. If the wife of a man followed after another man and he slept with her, they shall slay that woman, but that male shall be set free. (§4 in some translations)
* 8. If a man proceeded by force, and deflowered the virgin slavewoman of another man, that man must pay five shekels of silver. (5)
* 9. If a man divorces his first-time wife, he shall pay her one mina of silver. (6)
* 10. If it is a (former) widow whom he divorces, he shall pay her half a mina of silver. (7)
* 11. If the man had slept with the widow without there having been any marriage contract, he need not pay any silver. (8)
* 13. If a man is accused of sorcery he must undergo ordeal by water; if he is proven innocent, his accuser must pay 3 shekels. (10)
* 14. If a man accused the wife of a man of adultery, and the river ordeal proved her innocent, then the man who had accused her must pay one-third of a mina of silver. (11)
* 15. If a prospective son-in-law enters the house of his prospective father-in-law, but his father-in-law later gives his daughter to another man, the father-in-law shall return to the rejected son-in-law twofold the amount of bridal presents he had brought. (12)
* 17. If a slave escapes from the city limits, and someone returns him, the owner shall pay two shekels to the one who returned him. (14)
* 18. If a man knocks out the eye of another man, he shall weigh out ½ a mina of silver. (15)
* 19. If a man has cut off another man’s foot, he is to pay ten shekels. (16)
* 20. If a man, in the course of a scuffle, smashed the limb of another man with a club, he shall pay one mina of silver. (17)
* 21. If someone severed the nose of another man with a copper knife, he must pay two-thirds of a mina of silver. (18)
* 22. If a man knocks out a tooth of another man, he shall pay two shekels of silver. (19)
* 24. [...] If he does not have a slave, he is to pay 10 shekels of silver. If he does not have silver, he is to give another thing that belongs to him. (21)
* 25. If a man’s slave-woman, comparing herself to her mistress, speaks insolently to her, her mouth shall be scoured with 1 quart of salt. (22)
* 28. If a man appeared as a witness, and was shown to be a perjurer, he must pay fifteen shekels of silver. (25)
* 29. If a man appears as a witness, but withdraws his oath, he must make payment, to the extent of the value in litigation of the case. (26)
* 30. If a man stealthily cultivates the field of another man and he raises a complaint, this is however to be rejected, and this man will lose his expenses. (27)
* 31. If a man flooded the field of a man with water, he shall measure out three kur of barley per iku of field. (28)
* 32. If a man had let an arable field to a(nother) man for cultivation, but he did not cultivate it, turning it into wasteland, he shall measure out three kur of barley per iku of field. (29)

David · Post by **David** » Fri May 16, 2008 8:51 pm

frostybear wrote:It isn't, it has gone through and passed down from the hands of MEN and written by MEN. There is a reason why there is King James Version, they were trying to fixed perceived problems with earlier translations. He instructed translators to guarantee that the new version would conform to the current church of englands ( at the time ) structure and beliefs.

If I might expand, many words and phrases lack proper counterparts in different tongues as well as locations and times.

Engrish, anyone.

frostybear · Post by **frostybear** » Fri May 16, 2008 8:54 pm

David wrote:If I might expand, many words and phrases lack proper counterparts in different tongues as well as locations and times.

Engrish, anyone.

absolutely

Engrish

I mean even having different people translating the same thing can lead to differences because of interpretation, perception, and understanding..

Debbie · Post by **Debbie** » Fri May 16, 2008 9:10 pm

David's sig says it all.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sat May 17, 2008 12:11 am

frostybear wrote:It isn't, it has gone through and passed down from the hands of MEN and written by MEN. There is a reason why there is King James Version, they were trying to fixed perceived problems with earlier translations. He instructed translators to guarantee that the new version would conform to the current church of englands ( at the time ) structure and beliefs.

I believe the holy spirit works in the hearts of those men to maintain the integrity, as God wants it. I believe God will not allow what needs to be said to be changed from its meaning throughout each translation. I believe in the sovereignty of God.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Sat May 17, 2008 12:45 am

Brent wrote:I believe the holy spirit works in the hearts of those men to maintain the integrity, as God wants it. I believe God will not allow what needs to be said to be changed from its meaning throughout each translation. I believe in the sovereignty of God.

Do you still believe it when you're browsing for porn ? .....or how about the last time you PM'd pornography( a picture of your peen ) to certain female members of SG?

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Sat May 17, 2008 2:39 am

David wrote:If I might expand, many words and phrases lack proper counterparts in different tongues as well as locations and times.

Engrish, anyone.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Sat May 17, 2008 2:53 am

So....It's been a a while since I've seen a single one of you discuss the original topic.

Do none of you actually have an intelligent arguement either for or against the topic? Some of you can spin it as a religious argument if you wish.
In the end, even God's law takes a back seat to mans law as long as you hold a physical body on earth.

David · Post by **David** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:24 am

Izzo wrote:Do you still believe it when you're browsing for porn ? .....or how about the last time you PM'd pornography( a picture of your peen ) to certain female members of SG?

Attacking Brent does not bolster your argument. His faith is an aspiration, and like the rest of us he is flawed. Seeking absolution or better, to correct these imperfections is a goal. It should be his concern, while we seek our own way to being better people.

jasonb31 · Post by **jasonb31** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:56 am

64bit wrote:

Then why does it say ''all that is and ever will be is in the Torah"

You need to see this. I think its a little more than coincidence.

http://www.linkydinky.com/EnglishBibleCode.shtml

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Sat May 17, 2008 9:42 am

David wrote:Attacking Brent does not bolster your argument. His faith is an aspiration, and like the rest of us he is flawed. Seeking absolution or better, to correct these imperfections is a goal. It should be his concern, while we seek our own way to being better people.

I still contend he mas multiple personalities and his faith is exclusive to 1 of them. It's either that or he's the world's worst troll or biggest hypocrite....I'm not buying the 'he's taken a step off the path' argument at all. His comment about inbreeding in the Arkansas thread is further proof.

cybotron r_9 · Post by **cybotron r_9** » Sat May 17, 2008 9:42 am

Debbie wrote:http://youtube.com/watch?v=otGQqO2TYMI

Keep an open mind. If you don't like what you hear, click the little x in the top right-hand corner.

Good one Deb!!!

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Sat May 17, 2008 9:45 am

downhill wrote:So....It's been a a while since I've seen a single one of you discuss the original topic.

Do none of you actually have an intelligent arguement either for or against the topic? Some of you can spin it as a religious argument if you wish but even Jesus

In the end, even God's law takes a back seat to mans law as long as you hold a physical body on earth.

It's kinda hard to have an argument with reason with someone that I feel is irrational and unreasonable. For those that I agree with there is no need to post any further acknowledgments.

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:27 am

jasonb31 wrote:Then why does it say ''all that is and ever will be is in the Torah"

You need to see this. I think its a little more than coincidence.

http://www.linkydinky.com/EnglishBibleCode.shtml

You must be kidding me.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:28 am

jasonb31 wrote:Then why does it say ''all that is and ever will be is in the Torah"

You need to see this. I think its a little more than coincidence.

http://www.linkydinky.com/EnglishBibleCode.shtml

This is a very high level tinfoil attack.

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:30 am

Izzo wrote:It's kinda hard to have an argument with reason with someone that I feel is irrational and unreasonable. For those that I agree with there is no need to post any further acknowledgments.

There's no "feeling" they're irrational or unreasonable. They ARE irrational and unreasonable. Please, see my source (it's on the internets, all of them):

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:30 am

YARDofSTUF wrote:This is a very high level tinfoil attack.

It beats the one about the 911 memorial a few days back.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:35 am

Amro wrote:There's no "feeling" they're irrational or unreasonable. They ARE irrational and unreasonable. Please, see my source (it's on the internets, all of them):

I was asked to be nice by certain moderators

David · Post by **David** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:58 am

Izzo wrote:I still contend he mas multiple personalities and his faith is exclusive to 1 of them. It's either that or he's the world's worst troll or biggest hypocrite....I'm not buying the 'he's taken a step off the path' argument at all. His comment about inbreeding in the Arkansas thread is further proof.

point taken.

I would rather the discuss the issue than the person.

jasonb31 · Post by **jasonb31** » Sat May 17, 2008 1:13 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:This is a very high level tinfoil attack.

Yeah, I know that site is a little out there. The Bible codes were first found in the Torah by an old Jewish rabbi. Since then many have claimed to have discovered some things I don't agree with at all. The Bible codes are interesting thats all. There has been way to many people making claims and doing things that discredit to the original program and its founder that had made a good find and had tons of evidence that they could not be there just by chance.

RoundEye · Post by **RoundEye** » Sat May 17, 2008 3:31 pm

Since I have not read the bible from cover to cover, I have a question. Is there any verse or statement in the bible that says that a marriage must be between a man and a woman?

Also, what is the bibles stance on inter-racial marriages?

Debbie · Post by **Debbie** » Sat May 17, 2008 4:15 pm

RoundEye wrote:Since I have not read the bible from cover to cover, I have a question. Is there any verse or statement in the bible that says that a marriage must be between a man and a woman?

Also, what is the bibles stance on inter-racial marriages?

http://christianity.about.com/od/faqhel ... iage_2.htm

I found this.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sat May 17, 2008 4:39 pm

RoundEye wrote:Since I have not read the bible from cover to cover, I have a question. Is there any verse or statement in the bible that says that a marriage must be between a man and a woman?

Also, what is the bibles stance on inter-racial marriages?

There is nothing biblically wrong about inter-racial marriage. The bible does speak on the topic of marrying equally yoked if you are saved however (same faith in jesus christ.)

There is an interracial couple (white women, black man and their children) that are members of my Baptist church.

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Sat May 17, 2008 4:58 pm

Brent wrote: There is an interracial couple (white women, black man and their children) that are members of my Baptist church.

do you talk to them about your penis?

JAFO · Post by **JAFO** » Sat May 17, 2008 5:29 pm

Amro wrote:It beats the one about the 911 memorial a few days back.

Are you talking about the one regarding the red crescent shaped memorial for flight 93 in Pennsylvania?

JAFO · Post by **JAFO** » Sat May 17, 2008 5:40 pm

RoundEye wrote:Since I have not read the bible from cover to cover, I have a question. Is there any verse or statement in the bible that says that a marriage must be between a man and a woman?

Also, what is the bibles stance on inter-racial marriages?

Don't know about interracial marriages.

Regarding homosexual marriage, since the Bible says it is an abomination for a man to lie with a man as he would a woman, then marriage is out of the question.
This is covered in Leviticus 20:13, and can be read in many different versions here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh3.htm