California ban on same-sex marriage struck down

tr87526 · Post by **tr87526** » Fri May 16, 2008 12:54 am

I have to support Brent on this one.

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Fri May 16, 2008 12:59 am

tr87526 wrote:I have to support Brent on this one.

For me, the issue wasn't his position -- it was the way he defended it (or failed to).

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Fri May 16, 2008 7:51 am

Brent wrote:The idea of toleration is a very bad idea

You go to church, right?

Would you be proud to show your pastor and church family the posts you create about being able to see your "peepee"...and dressing up like a woman, or splashing on your legs when you pee, attraction to pictures of quite clearly under aged girls....etc...etc....etc....etc....etc....etc....

Huh?

Debbie · Post by **Debbie** » Fri May 16, 2008 8:08 am

Good point YOSC!!

His slate is far from clean.

Think · Post by **Think** » Fri May 16, 2008 8:14 am

Sad but expected

frostybear · Post by **frostybear** » Fri May 16, 2008 8:38 am

Debbie wrote:Good point YOSC!!

His slate is far from clean.

Your sig says it best...

Think · Post by **Think** » Fri May 16, 2008 8:44 am

frostybear wrote:Your sig says it best...

I'm sure Bob was not thinking about GAY marriage

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Fri May 16, 2008 8:45 am

Joel wrote:With all due respect, that is a very offensive statement sir. Whether you disagree or not, to call everyone who believes in religion (what is it, 83% of Americans believe in some religion or another?) does not bode well for your standing as a knowledgeable and respectful member.

I agree with you Joel. There was no need for Stevebakh to take the lowest common denominator within this thread. As hard as it may be to believe it is possible for people to disagree and do so respectfully.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Fri May 16, 2008 8:56 am

Adding another point I do think there is a clear reason on why there is a need for the seperation of church and state. That said it's obvious that religion makes up the lives of alot of people and sometimes they can conflict. That said an elected official needs to enforce the will of the people and if he can't do so because his own views are in conflict with that then he needs to find a new line of business.

All that said let's try to keep this stuff in order guys. I have faith we can have a serious discussion without the insults. Stevebakh the reason why I singled you out in my previous post is your comment imo should have been more specific to Brent. When you take a general statement like that it's offensive to everyone who has religious faith and it's no more appropriate to be said then it would be for someone to say "those who don't believe in religion is an excuse for the stupid". It's just not necessary and it's something that can only add to a thread getting out of control.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Fri May 16, 2008 9:01 am

Roody wrote:Adding another point I do think there is a clear reason on why there is a need for the seperation of church and state. That said it's obvious that religion makes up the lives of alot of people and sometimes they can conflict. That said an elected official needs to enforce the will of the people and if he can't do so because his own views are in conflict with that then he needs to find a new line of business.

All that said let's try to keep this stuff in order guys. I have faith we can have a serious discussion without the insults. Stevebakh the reason why I singled you out in my previous post is your comment imo should have been more specific to Brent. When you take a general statement like that it's offensive to everyone who has religious faith and it's no more appropriate to be said then it would be for someone to say "those who don't believe in religion is an excuse for the stupid". It's just not necessary and it's something that can only add to a thread getting out of control.

Meh. I didn't find Steve's comment offensive. Actually, I found Brent's comments offensive for insisting a book I do not believe in is "the law" and for insinuating his beliefs are 'more right' than mine. I guess it all depends on what you believe and on which side of the fence you're on. I say Steve has the right to say what he feels just like Brent has.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Fri May 16, 2008 9:05 am

Izzo wrote:Meh. I didn't find Steve's comment offensive. Actually, I found Brent's comments offensive for insisting a book I do not believe in is "the law" and for insinuating his beliefs are 'more right' than mine. I guess it all depends on what you believe and on which side of the fence you're on. I say Steve has the right to say what he feels just like Brent has.

I don't disagree that Brent made a few blanket statements himself. That said Stevebakh's comments were offensive in general and they weren't necessary either.

Gixxer · Post by **Gixxer** » Fri May 16, 2008 9:06 am

brembo wrote:Oh come off it Brent. Murdering and molesting children is so far from allowing gay marriages. Gay marriages hurt no one, they create no danger to society.

kinda like...... here it comes, you'll love it!!

losing football game

=

losing life?

brembo · Post by **brembo** » Fri May 16, 2008 9:14 am

Gixxer wrote:kinda like...... here it comes, you'll love it!!

losing football game

=

losing life?

What?

David · Post by **David** » Fri May 16, 2008 9:33 am

downhill wrote:brembo's already mentioned it and it needs repeating.

IMHO, the government shouldn't be in the marriage business and religion should never be in the business of pushing laws to force morality.

Let's quit calling marriages for things related to government, insurance, benefits etc. etc. and start calling them civil unions.

Problem solved. Unless of course you want a church wedding and you're LDS and gay and not caught up on your tithing. .

By invoking legal status to marriage and permitting holy folk to perform the union, the clergy have been imbued with a governmental power. In the Judeo-Christian-Islamic ministries certainly do have a valid opinion on the definition of matrimony. That said, ships' captains and mayors have the same ability, without need for religious affiliation. There should be no difference by law in terms of marriage, however no religious institution should be forced to recognize the union. It is somewhat similar to interfaith marriages which are not viewed as legitimate by the more conservative houses of worship.

frostybear · Post by **frostybear** » Fri May 16, 2008 9:42 am

Think wrote:I'm sure Bob was not thinking about GAY marriage

So that quote cannot apply to ANYTHING else......

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Fri May 16, 2008 9:43 am

David wrote:no religious institution should be forced to recognize the union

Well put. The fact is we separate church and state for a reason and this is one of those reasons.

David · Post by **David** » Fri May 16, 2008 10:14 am

stevebakh wrote:To be frank, I couldn't care less how those people view me. Belief in such fairytales doesn't really speak volumes about their level of knowledge, logic or common-sense. The bible isn't the law, it's a joke. A complete work of a fiction. There's an explanation for everything, from the reasons women bear pain during childbirth, right through to different languages existing and how the population is spread across the world.

The Bible has in it, noted historic instances. Perhaps in its need to answer all questions and to awe inspiring, its authors have taken to flights of fancy.

Holy books have be used as the basis for law throughout history. Certainly, those who founded the US utilized many of the Bible's tennents as its foundation. This is not to say that the Book should not be viewed for answers to all legal questions, but its perspectives on society cannot be dismissed.

The Devil · Post by **The Devil** » Fri May 16, 2008 10:42 am

Brent wrote:Tolerance is a very evil tool used by the devil

Someone mention me?

Actually Brent, I happen to prefer intolerance, since it allows one to assume superiority without personal boasting.

Then again, there is a point where tolerance ceases to be a virtue.

[OPENS A COKE]

I'll just let mortal man argue over this one. Time for me to dangle some blow in front of Lindsay.

David · Post by **David** » Fri May 16, 2008 11:06 am

The Devil wrote:Someone mention me?

Actually Brent, I happen to prefer intolerance, since it allows one to assume superiority without personal boasting.

Indeed

The Devil wrote:Then again, there is a point where tolerance ceases to be a virtue.

When it allows one to assume moral superiority.... oh wait...

The Devil wrote:[OPENS A COKE]

autourophagia

The Devil wrote:I'll just let mortal man argue over this one. Time for me to dangle some blow in front of Lindsay.

You are getting soft, Lew. Going for the easy meat.

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Fri May 16, 2008 11:08 am

I lol'd.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Fri May 16, 2008 11:15 am

Amro wrote:I lol'd.

David is one to hit you with nice subtle humor.

I lol'd also.

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Fri May 16, 2008 12:20 pm

The Devil wrote: Time for me to dangle some blow in front of Lindsay.

Rep pts sent

stevebakh · Post by **stevebakh** » Fri May 16, 2008 2:36 pm

David wrote:The Bible has in it, noted historic instances. Perhaps in its need to answer all questions and to awe inspiring, its authors have taken to flights of fancy.

Holy books have be used as the basis for law throughout history. Certainly, those who founded the US utilized many of the Bible's tennents as its foundation. This is not to say that the Book should not be viewed for answers to all legal questions, but its perspectives on society cannot be dismissed.

I can't argue with that. I know that the bible has references to real historic events (as pretty much any book will have references to current events around the time of it's writing). That doesn't change my opinion that the meat of the book is a work of fiction.

I don't intend to insult people, but it is an obvious side-effect of my opinion. I find it absurd that anyone can believe in such stories. Whether it's because they've known no different since birth, or through some other bizarre twist of nature, I find it ludicrous that people can believe and follow the religions they do. To me, it's as daft as claiming the earth is flat, or that the Greek Gods were real.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Fri May 16, 2008 3:54 pm

Think wrote:I'm sure Bob was not thinking about GAY marriage

Right, because now every single heterosexual marriage in California has spontaneously ended in divorce, and all the fabric of society is being torn into bits overnight and natural disasters are raining terror on the populace...

...oh, wait. None of that's true. Gay people are just being allowed to marry. And you're not being hurt by it, nor is anyone else.

Wow.

What a shocker! People are being allowed to express their love towards one another! Why don't you step down off your cute little soapbox and actually read the Bible? I'll even compile a list of a few passages for you to look at. Try these passages on for size:

Leviticus 19:17, 18
Proverbs 3:29 - 31 (Doubly so on v. 31)
Proverbs 10:12
Ecclesiastes 6:12
Matthew 7:1
Luke 6:37
John 8:7
John 15:12
Romans 12:15, 18
Romans 13:8
Galatians 5:22
James 2:19, 20 (Pay close attention to this one)
James 4:11
1 Peter 4:15

Notice how much of that talks about love being the primary cause of the law, or being the only law. Love is God's law, hatred is not.

RoundEye · Post by **RoundEye** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:21 pm

I’m going to quote myself from apast threadsince it pertains to this matter somewhat. While I do believe in God, I’m not one of those “my way is right, your way is wrong, and you will burn in hell” type of people. I think tolerance and acceptance of your fellow man (even if you disagree with him) would make this world a much nicer place to live in.

RoundEye wrote:OK, this is the inner workings of a scrambled egg mind, if you disagree please feel free to say so.

I am not God, therefore I should not judge my fellow man. It is not my job to do so.

That being said, I believe in gay marriage. It is not my position to define love, or a persons desire to commit to another person for life on earth.

As long as they both sign their names in the family bible, they realize that they are making a promise of commitment to each other and God. If it really is a sin in God’s eyes, may God have mercy on their souls. There should be no other person on this planet they should have to answer to.

That brings me to asking the state for permission to get married by getting a marriage license. I didn’t want a license when I got married, but I did it to make my wife happy. Believe me in this, but I know a man who filed a lawsuit when the state tried to force him into getting a marriage license, and won. The state CAN NOT force you into a contract when it is your God given right to get married.

You have to understand what a license is. Black’s law dictionary defines license as this: … The permission by competent authority to do an act which without such permission, would be illegal….

How could getting married without a license be illegal when getting married is a God given right? When you get a marriage license you are entering into a contract with the state for the fruits of you labor. The fruits of your labor are your children and every penny you have and everything you have ever bought.

Why do you think that you sign your driver’s license and marriage license? It’s not for signature verification as they lead you to believe. It is because you entered into a contract with the state to follow their rules. The lady behind the counter at the DMV is a witness to your signature, and that’s why we have best men and maids of honor, they are all witnesses into you entering a legal contract with the state. They can revoke your drivers license if you screw up. And by signing that marriage license, you entered into a contract with the state. They can tell you what school your kids have to attend, or even take your children by law if they think you are a bad parent. You signed the contract, remember?

Why do you think you have to stand before a judge during a divorce? He has the final say so in which parent the child goes to, who gets what money and property in settlement. Why does he have this authority? Because you signed a state contract dumb ass !!!

You gave the state permission to have authority over your marriage, your children and any penny you and your wife ever earned.
So yes, separate church and state, and let God hand out the final judgments. It is not out place as mankind to do Gods work for him pertaining to law.

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:23 pm

I know this is something that eats at you Paft, but you could have said that with a little less venom

Still curious about the whole Sodom and Gomorah reference though.

Randy, rep points aren't going to get anything dangled in front of YOU, nice try though

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:27 pm

RoundEye wrote:I’m going to quote myself from apast threadsince it pertains to this matter somewhat. While I do believe in God, I’m not one of those “my way is right, your way is wrong, and you will burn in hell” type of people. I think tolerance and acceptance of your fellow man (even if you disagree with him) would make this world a much nicer place to live in.

Agreed. Don't assume all people who may go to church or practice some form of religion...are extreme fanatics.

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:30 pm

Hell I was sitting next to a tranny at a Christmas Eve service a couple years ago

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:31 pm

De Plano wrote:I know this is something that eats at you Paft, but you could have said that with a little less venom

Absolutely I could have. But civil discourse isn't going to get anywhere, so why not just vent frustrations at this point?

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:39 pm

Paft wrote:Absolutely I could have. But civil discourse isn't going to get anywhere, so why not just vent frustrations at this point?

Do unto others, lead by example, turn the other cheek and all that other stuff

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:40 pm

De Plano wrote:I know this is something that eats at you Paft, but you could have said that with a little less venom

With Think's sig I wouldn't expect any less venom from Paft.

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:44 pm

Holy crap, point taken

They don't believe what I believe "Hang 'em high fellas!"

Debbie · Post by **Debbie** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:44 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:With Think's sig I wouldn't expect any less venom from Paft.

Thanks for pointing out the hate.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:45 pm

De Plano wrote:Do unto others, lead by example, turn the other cheek and all that other stuff

You're right.

Think before I speak. >.<

jasonb31 · Post by **jasonb31** » Fri May 16, 2008 6:02 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:No it isnt. You chose to obey the bible, theres no law saying we must.

Well if you want to burn in hell, Be my guest says the devil. As we inch closer to that time of judgment it is things like this that will bring horrific punishment on our country as a whole rather than just bad individuals so thanks.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Fri May 16, 2008 6:05 pm

jasonb31 wrote:Well if you want to burn in hell, Be my guest says the devil. As we inch closer to that time of judgment it is things like this that will bring horrific punishment on our country as a whole rather than just bad individuals so thanks.

Wow, you're a religous tinfoil hat nutcase? Thats just awesomely... not awesome.

I say **** just happens, and then people like you make up 6 million reasons why it did.

Debbie · Post by **Debbie** » Fri May 16, 2008 6:07 pm

http://youtube.com/watch?v=otGQqO2TYMI

Keep an open mind. If you don't like what you hear, click the little x in the top right-hand corner.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Fri May 16, 2008 6:07 pm

jasonb31 wrote:Well if you want to burn in hell, Be my guest says the devil. As we inch closer to that time of judgment it is things like this that will bring horrific punishment on our country as a whole rather than just bad individuals so thanks.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Fri May 16, 2008 6:07 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Wow, you're a religous tinfoil hat nutcase? Thats just awesomely... not awesome.

I say **** just happens, and then people like you make up 6 million reasons why it did.

frostybear · Post by **frostybear** » Fri May 16, 2008 6:11 pm

Debbie wrote:http://youtube.com/watch?v=otGQqO2TYMI

Keep an open mind. If you don't like what you hear, click the little x in the top right-hand corner.