Florida considers Christian license plate

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:08 am

This would be a first.

MIAMI, Florida (AP) -- Florida drivers can order more than 100 specialty license plates celebrating everything from manatees to the Miami Heat, but one now under consideration would be the first in the nation to explicitly promote a specific religion.

The Florida Legislature is considering a specialty plate with a design that includes a Christian cross, a stained-glass window and the words "I Believe."

Rep. Edward Bullard, the plate's sponsor, said people who "believe in their college or university" or "believe in their football team" already have license plates they can buy. The new design is a chance for others to put a tag on their cars with "something they believe in," he said.

If the plate is approved, Florida would become the first state to have a license plate featuring a religious symbol that's not part of a college logo. Approval would almost certainly face a court challenge.

The problem with the state manufacturing the plate is that it "sends a message that Florida is essentially a Christian state" and, second, gives the "appearance that the state is endorsing a particular religious preference," said Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.

The "I Believe" license plate still has a way to go before it reaches the roads. The proposal is part of a package of license plates being debated in the Senate and ready for a floor vote. In the House, the bill that would authorize the plate has passed one committee 8-2. The Legislature's annual session ends May 2.

Some lawmakers say the state should be careful. Rep. Kelly Skidmore said she is a Roman Catholic and goes to Mass on Sundays, but she believes the "I Believe" plate is inappropriate for the government to produce.

"It's not a road I want to go down. I don't want to see the Star of David next. I don't want to see a Torah next. None of that stuff is appropriate to me," said Skidmore, a Democrat who voted against the plate in committee. "I just believe that."

Florida's specialty license plates require the payment of additional fees, some of which go to causes the plates endorse.

One plate approved in 2004, displaying the motto "Family First," funds Sheridan House, which provides family programs but also sees its purpose as "sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Bible" and "information about the Christian faith."

The bill creating the "I Believe" plate would also create an "In God We Trust" plate to benefit the children of soldiers and law enforcement officers whose parents have died. It also could face opposition as a violation of the separation of church and state.

An Indiana plate with the same "In God We Trust" phrase has been challenged by the ACLU, but the courts so far have deemed it legal, arguing that it is comparable with other specialty plates.

This isn't the first time a Florida license plate design has created religious controversy. In 1999, lawmakers approved a bright yellow "Choose Life" license plate with a picture of a boy and girl. It raises money for agencies that encourage women to not have abortions.

That generated a court battle, with abortion rights groups saying the plate had religious overtones. But it was ruled legal, and about a dozen states now have similar plates.

A "Trust God" license plate was proposed in Florida in 2003. It would have given money to Christian radio stations and charities, but was never produced.

Earlier this year, a legislative committee was shown an image of a "Trinity" plate that showed a Christlike figure with his arms outstretched. It and two other plates were voted down.

The group asking for the "I Believe" plate, the Orlando-based nonprofit Faith in Teaching Inc., supports faith-based schools activities. The plate would cost drivers an extra $25 annual fee.

Approving the plate could open the state to legal challenges, according to Josie Brown, who teaches constitutional law at the University of South Carolina. And it's not certain who would win.

"It would be an interesting close call," Brown said.

Simon, of the ACLU, said approval of the plate could prompt many other groups to seek their own designs, and they could claim discrimination if their plans were rejected. That could even allow the Ku Klux Klan to get a plate, Simon said.

Bullard, the plate's sponsor, isn't sure all groups should be able to express their preference. If atheists came up with an "I Don't Believe" plate, for example, he would probably oppose it.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:26 am

i have custom plates but I think I may give them up..they are charging me twice as much for them and its just not worth it.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:27 am

With all the crazy plates you can get I'm kinda surprised they didn't have this already.

koldchillah · Post by **koldchillah** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:44 am

Interesting. It would be a first and while I believe firmly in the seperation between church and state, I would not be one to protest this idea as long as it's made fair across the board. I see the idea as being a smart way for that particular Christian organization to raise some extra money, particularly since it's going to faith based education, which I don't have a problem with those that choose that path. On the other hand, the other religious organizations need to be allowed to follow suit and if that's going to become an issue, then no, this can't be allowed. just my $.02.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:47 am

koldchillah wrote:Interesting. It would be a first and while I believe firmly in the seperation between church and state, I would not be one to protest this idea as long as it's made fair across the board. I see the idea as being a smart way for that particular Christian organization to raise some extra money, particularly since it's going to faith based education, which I don't have a problem with those that choose that path. On the other hand, the other religious organizations need to be allowed to follow suit and if that's going to become an issue, then no, this can't be allowed. just my $.02.

Agreed

CiscoKid · Post by **CiscoKid** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:04 am

I third this opinion.

Though I can see MANY plates being banned...Wiccan being the front runner for denied vanity plates

koldchillah · Post by **koldchillah** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:17 am

CiscoKid wrote:I third this opinion.

Though I can see MANY plates being banned...Wiccan being the front runner for denied vanity plates

It would need to be backed by some form of non-profit Wiccan organization. If the Wiccan's are organized as such, it may just fly if there is truly enough Wiccan's to support the idea. I'm sure the state isn't going to make a plate that only a small handful of people are actually going to buy.. It needs to have a good sized following in whatever state it is proposed, IF this religious plates idea even gets off the ground in the first place.

I believe in freedom of religion, so if they can pull it off.. then good for them.

Far-N-Wide · Post by **Far-N-Wide** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:02 am

Why the heck not... It's on our money, "In God we trust"... Also the ever popular "One nation under God with liberty and justice for all".

A license plate is not asking much. If you don't like it, then move to another country. This nation was founded on a Christian foundation. It's high time we go back to our roots.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:16 am

Far-N-Wide wrote:Why the heck not... It's on our money, "In God we trust"... Also the ever popular "One nation under God with liberty and justice for all".

A license plate is not asking much. If you don't like it, then move to another country. This nation was founded on a Christian foundation. It's high time we go back to our roots.

This nation was not founded on Christian values.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:22 am

Izzo wrote:This nation was not founded on Christian values.

It wasn't founded on manatee values, or save the long island sound values either

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:33 am

YARDofSTUF wrote:It wasn't founded on manatee values, or save the long island sound values either

I'm just sayin'.

David · Post by **David** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:15 am

YARDofSTUF wrote:It wasn't founded on manatee values, or save the long island sound values either

No separation between manatee and state.

Not particularly relevant...

triniwasp · Post by **triniwasp** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:09 pm

koldchillah wrote:Interesting. It would be a first and while I believe firmly in the seperation between church and state, I would not be one to protest this idea as long as it's made fair across the board. I see the idea as being a smart way for that particular Christian organization to raise some extra money, particularly since it's going to faith based education, which I don't have a problem with those that choose that path. On the other hand, the other religious organizations need to be allowed to follow suit and if that's going to become an issue, then no, this can't be allowed. just my $.02.

Spammy · Post by **Spammy** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:31 pm

It shouldn't have to be considered, it should be offered.All religous plates should be offered.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:51 pm

Spammy wrote:It shouldn't have to be considered, it should be offered.All religous plates should be offered.

Apparently they need to wait to see who first is going to be offended because God exists.

Spammy · Post by **Spammy** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:53 pm

Roody wrote:Apparently they need to wait to see who first is going to be offended because God exists.

lol...

yeah sad story my friend.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:32 pm

Undoubtedly someone is going to cry because there is a religious reference and demand it's removal instead of just requesting an athiest tag or agnostic.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:35 pm

Roody wrote:Undoubtedly someone is going to cry because there is a religious reference and demand it's removal instead of just requesting an athiest tag or agnostic.

Obviously it's a cost issue....remove 1 'offending' plate or create dozens more. *shrug*

64bit · Post by **64bit** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:35 pm

Bullard, the plate's sponsor, isn't sure all groups should be able to express their preference. If atheists came up with an "I Don't Believe" plate, for example, he would probably oppose it.

Tells ya a lot you need to know about this brain surgeon.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:36 pm

Roody wrote:Undoubtedly someone is going to cry because there is a religious reference and demand it's removal instead of just requesting an athiest tag or agnostic.

How? Its not being forced on their car, its by choice. People can put I *heart* Jesus stickers on their car, this is liek the same thing, and even better, now maybe this will be one less tacky sticker on the back of a car.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:38 pm

Izzo wrote:Obviously it's a cost issue....remove 1 'offending' plate or create dozens more. *shrug*

Valid point.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:39 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:How? Its not being forced on their car, its by choice. People can put I *heart* Jesus stickers on their car, this is liek the same thing, and even better, now maybe this will be one less tacky sticker on the back of a car.

Guess I am a bit cynical when it comes to this. Seen to many past issues where people did something like that.

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:39 pm

I was amazed that they have a antiabortion one, think it is pretty silly to have a Christian one.

koldchillah · Post by **koldchillah** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:42 pm

Are license plates pre-manufactured and stock-piled or created per order? The custom ones, that is.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:46 pm

koldchillah wrote:Are license plates pre-manufactured and stock-piled or created per order? The custom ones, that is.

Unless it's a vanity plate I'd guess so ...they are up here.

koldchillah · Post by **koldchillah** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:02 pm

Izzo wrote:Unless it's a vanity plate I'd guess so ...they are up here.

Cost wouldn't be an issue if both the state and xyz religious organization can both turn a profit from the production of the plates. If they can't, then they should up the extra fee to compensate the state while maintaining profit for the organization.. Otherwise forget the whole idea.

I also think they should all stick to the theme of spreading the wealth to education or to the well being of our youth in one way or another.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:04 pm

koldchillah wrote:Cost wouldn't be an issue if both the state and xyz religious organization can both turn a profit from the production of the plates. If they can't, then they should up the extra fee to compensate the state while maintaining profit for the organization.. Otherwise forget the whole idea.

I also think they should all stick to the theme of spreading the wealth to education or to the well being of our youth in one way or another.

I agree.

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:06 pm

I wonder if "FUK-GOD" is still avail?

David · Post by **David** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:15 pm

Randy wrote:I wonder if "FUK-XXX" is still avail?

Maybe, however it might be difficult to insure it...

Joel · Post by **Joel** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:29 pm

"The problem with the state manufacturing the plate is that it "sends a message that Florida is essentially a Christian state""
^^Disagree. Seriously, wtf?

I will fourth or fifth or whatever the opinion that if it is to be offered than every other religion to should have their shot at getting a plate, but I don't see any reason why this should be challenged or denied.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:32 pm

Joel wrote:"The problem with the state manufacturing the plate is that it "sends a message that Florida is essentially a Christian state""
^^Disagree. Seriously, wtf?

I will fourth or fifth or whatever the opinion that if it is to be offered than every other religion to should have their shot at getting a plate, but I don't see any reason why this should be challenged or denied.

The only reason I can see is that the sponsor won't give the opportunity to non-believers....and for that he loses all credibility.