I still don't understand why it was such a mistake. I mean the Jews have just as much claim to the lands there as anyone else as far as i see it. In my opinion Israel has made too many concessions already to try and appease 4 state funded terrorist orginizations. I think we all know that even if Palestinians had their own state the terrorist wouldn't stop.......they are terrorists.triniwasp wrote:The creation of Israel is why there are "terrorist" organizations (arab). We cannot undo the mistake of creating Israel, but we must make some concessions to Arab interests in the Middle East.
Otherwise this will never stop. Why should Palestinians be second class citizens
so Israel can exist?
Well, Israel Knows How To Deal W/ The UN
She's presenting like a mandrill!
...I see your point about the Trail of Tears. I never liked that point of history, and have always wondered what a better, non-violent, solution could have been.Burke wrote:When I hear a call for Israelis to be uprooted and cast off into the world, I get a Trail of Tears vibe, and surely that can't be a useful solution.
When you separate scrapping kids in kindergarten, you do just that: separate. You don't let one kid play where he wants and let the other stew on the other side of the room, else you inflame him further and provoke future retaliation. A lack of proximity does not magically negate enmity. 9/11 proves that.
That's entirely true. If there was a way to just split both groups up, then doing that would be even better than allowing one group to remain. The group that was taken away would harbor anger for a long time after the move. However, how could we manage moving a third of the world?
If that problem could be solved.. hm.
Ah, apoligies. I'm a bit defensive today, it appears.Burke wrote:My reference to the Son of Perdition was not an attack on you. It was a reference to the prophesied manner in which he will make peace and be called Christ by the world, when he is not, and how people will rejoice at how peace has been achieved.
So trade that typical for something colorful, and if it's crazy live a little crazy!
They have just as much claim to the area just how exactly?64bit wrote:I still don't understand why it was such a mistake. I mean the Jews have just as much claim to the lands there as anyone else as far as i see it. In my opinion Israel has made too many concessions already to try and appease 4 state funded terrorist orginizations. I think we all know that even if Palestinians had their own state the terrorist wouldn't stop.......they are terrorists.
Also, stamping an entire nationality as being terrorist simply because a small percentage of it supports terrorist-based activities is not being very fair.
What claim is this and why is it valid?64bit wrote:I still don't understand why it was such a mistake. I mean the Jews have just as much claim to the lands there as anyone else as far as i see it. In my opinion Israel has made too many concessions already to try and appease 4 state funded terrorist orginizations. I think we all know that even if Palestinians had their own state the terrorist wouldn't stop.......they are terrorists.
Feelings about religion: I believe in a dogma-free personal Prime Mover.
Other than the fact they have settled the land all throughout recorded history......they proclaimed the land as their own and fought a war to retain the land......just like many other countries have been created all through out history.triniwasp wrote:What claim is this and why is it valid?
She's presenting like a mandrill!
Doesn't matter. Even though they communicated 10 times with Israeli military and confirmed that they were striking close to the base, they still bombed them. The USA has vetoed the Condemnation against Israel anyway.
I'm sure nothing will happen with the 2 Ambulances intentionally targetted as well as the cluster bombs being used on civilians.
I'm sure nothing will happen with the 2 Ambulances intentionally targetted as well as the cluster bombs being used on civilians.
SG Pimp Name : *Treacherous P. Shizzle*
*
The fight for our way of life needs to be fought on our own soil, for our own people and because of our own interests.
*
Hey, If Me & My Buddies Were Making Billions of Dollars I'd Tell Ya What Ya Wanted To Hear Too!
*
The fight for our way of life needs to be fought on our own soil, for our own people and because of our own interests.
*
Hey, If Me & My Buddies Were Making Billions of Dollars I'd Tell Ya What Ya Wanted To Hear Too!
-
Joint Chiefs of Staff
- Posts: 42832
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: The Sandbox
Agreed Pie but does it justify Hezbollah miltia hiding among innocent civilians?thepieman wrote:Doesn't matter. Even though they communicated 10 times with Israeli military and confirmed that they were striking close to the base, they still bombed them. The USA has vetoed the Condemnation against Israel anyway.
I'm sure nothing will happen with the 2 Ambulances intentionally targetted as well as the cluster bombs being used on civilians.
>>Cult Master of International Affairs<<
-
Far-N-Wide
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1160
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2000 12:00 am
- Location: His Tavern of Solitude
It sucks folks have to die. Sending UN folks into the area was risky. It's a war zone, shells & rockets dropping on both sides, and everyone is upset with Israel? If they died by rockets form Lebanon would the wind blow in the Israelis favor?
Let them fight like It's like grade school. Hezbollah snaps the Israelis pencil in a class room. Israel bumps them in the hallway. Hezbollah shoves Israel in the locker. Israel grabs hezbollahs head and runs their face down the entire row of lockers. Making dam sure they see every single paddle lock with their face. And then smack their head into the water cooler for good measure. Just to send the message... Don't mess with Israel !
War should be quick, decisive and over very fast. Afghan, Iraq and now Lebanon; all safe havens for muslim fascists. These countries are slowly coming to terms with the cost of befriending terrorists... with each dead civililian.
Let them fight like It's like grade school. Hezbollah snaps the Israelis pencil in a class room. Israel bumps them in the hallway. Hezbollah shoves Israel in the locker. Israel grabs hezbollahs head and runs their face down the entire row of lockers. Making dam sure they see every single paddle lock with their face. And then smack their head into the water cooler for good measure. Just to send the message... Don't mess with Israel !
War should be quick, decisive and over very fast. Afghan, Iraq and now Lebanon; all safe havens for muslim fascists. These countries are slowly coming to terms with the cost of befriending terrorists... with each dead civililian.
USAFRETIRED
[quote="Far-N-Wide"]It sucks folks have to die. Sending UN folks into the area was risky. It's a war zone, shells & rockets dropping on both sides, and everyone is upset with Israel? If they died by rockets form Lebanon would the wind blow in the Israelis favor?
Let them fight like It's like grade school. Hezbollah snaps the Israelis pencil in a class room. Israel bumps them in the hallway. Hezbollah shoves Israel in the locker. Israel grabs hezbollahs head and runs their face down the entire row of lockers. Making dam sure they see every single paddle lock with their face. And then smack their head into the water cooler for good measure. Just to send the message... Don't mess with Israel !
War should be quick, decisive and over very fast. Afghan, Iraq and now Lebanon]
Only that Hezbollah continues its posturing.
Israel is in a public relation fiasco with dead children appearing in news papers. The civilians are not blaming Gazan or Lebanonese terrorists for their predicament.
It is the one thing Much of American leadership is having trouble getting into its head. These terrorists are not seen as the enemy, because they are not the ones bombing the living daylights out of them.
Israel would do far better seeking to aid these people than to horrify them.
Let them fight like It's like grade school. Hezbollah snaps the Israelis pencil in a class room. Israel bumps them in the hallway. Hezbollah shoves Israel in the locker. Israel grabs hezbollahs head and runs their face down the entire row of lockers. Making dam sure they see every single paddle lock with their face. And then smack their head into the water cooler for good measure. Just to send the message... Don't mess with Israel !
War should be quick, decisive and over very fast. Afghan, Iraq and now Lebanon]
Only that Hezbollah continues its posturing.
Israel is in a public relation fiasco with dead children appearing in news papers. The civilians are not blaming Gazan or Lebanonese terrorists for their predicament.
It is the one thing Much of American leadership is having trouble getting into its head. These terrorists are not seen as the enemy, because they are not the ones bombing the living daylights out of them.
Israel would do far better seeking to aid these people than to horrify them.
Hell_Yes
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche
-
Far-N-Wide
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1160
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2000 12:00 am
- Location: His Tavern of Solitude
The Lebanon government, along with the rest of the Arab nations. Could pick up arms and fight the Fascists Muslims (hezbollah). Meet Israel at the border both sides could say thank you and call it even. But... that's never going to happen.
History has shown just how hard Israel plays hardball. Brief wars in 1967, again in 1973, Egypt had lost most of Sinai Desert to them. They learned how resolved the Israelis can be.
A fragile friendship began between these two countries, around the mid or late 70s. This was during the Camp David peace accords (Carter Administration).
Keep in mind this was two governments at war. Not one dragged into war by terrorists. Resulting in civilians used as human shields (casualties) designed to make Israel look evil.
There's a strong "I don't care attitude" Israel is associated with, for it's resolve on terrorism. When you hear an explosion in a war zone... civilian folks should leave. But in the last few weeks the ones left in the area are getting caught in the cross fire.
Today civilians die. Israel is the bad guy for defending it self. The real bad guys here are the terrorists who dragged Lebanon into war.
Israel is targeting folks that would do them harm. If Lebanon cared about it people, they'd pick up arms and hunt the cause and not the symptom. If the UN cared, it would send in troops on both sides and say how can we help kill hezbollah.
The world needs to be come more resolved on terror. How much cancer are you willing to live with? Don't kick the surgeon for cutting away some flesh with the cancer. Give him better tools or help in getting the process done.
History has shown just how hard Israel plays hardball. Brief wars in 1967, again in 1973, Egypt had lost most of Sinai Desert to them. They learned how resolved the Israelis can be.
A fragile friendship began between these two countries, around the mid or late 70s. This was during the Camp David peace accords (Carter Administration).
Keep in mind this was two governments at war. Not one dragged into war by terrorists. Resulting in civilians used as human shields (casualties) designed to make Israel look evil.
There's a strong "I don't care attitude" Israel is associated with, for it's resolve on terrorism. When you hear an explosion in a war zone... civilian folks should leave. But in the last few weeks the ones left in the area are getting caught in the cross fire.
Today civilians die. Israel is the bad guy for defending it self. The real bad guys here are the terrorists who dragged Lebanon into war.
Israel is targeting folks that would do them harm. If Lebanon cared about it people, they'd pick up arms and hunt the cause and not the symptom. If the UN cared, it would send in troops on both sides and say how can we help kill hezbollah.
The world needs to be come more resolved on terror. How much cancer are you willing to live with? Don't kick the surgeon for cutting away some flesh with the cancer. Give him better tools or help in getting the process done.
USAFRETIRED
The sheer bloodlust exhibited by some of you makes me want to vomit.
"Oh well, some innocent people are going to have to die, but it's better they do so we can wipe out Hizbollah."
For every settler who is removed, another settles in. For every terrorist killed, another rises. Who are you to traipse in, puff out your chest and do a pump fist for ANYONE who goes to war over two kidnapped soldiers? Does that make ANY sense? It's a bit like going to war over weapons of mass destruction that are magically gone once the shelling begins. "Well, since we're already HERE..."
Will the annihilation of towns and displacement of hundreds of thousands do anything but energize a whole new generation of terrorists? Will Jews really feel any safer riding a public bus or eating at an outdoor cafe once Lebanon has been reduced to rubble? Self-defense is one thing, but the wholesale razing of towns just to kill a few terrorist leaders is insanity. It's pond-fishing with dynamite.
This is a continuing false flag operation, meant to foment strife so as to bring the world under an iron thumb, and Israel is walking right into the trap -- and, in many cases, setting it. Syria and Iran are not blameless, they are willing dupes in a grander scheme of conflict and control. Their fate is sealed, although they either don't know it or refuse to see beyond the seething hatred of the moment.
And to cover the religious aspect (and please, atheists and "religion is the cause of all evil" people, feel free to not spew your distaste), the Israeli government, and by extension its people, have eschewed God's deliverance in favor of exricating it on their own. Many Jews today live in an ecumenical cloud, and the refusal to recognize Christ as the Son of God and the Messiah (and therein His teachings) is leading them to destruction. They believe they're fulfilling their role as protectors of Israel, but in reality they are reflecting a loss of confidence in God. Exactly who do you think the 144,000 are? No one in the Israeli government, I'd say.
"Oh well, some innocent people are going to have to die, but it's better they do so we can wipe out Hizbollah."
For every settler who is removed, another settles in. For every terrorist killed, another rises. Who are you to traipse in, puff out your chest and do a pump fist for ANYONE who goes to war over two kidnapped soldiers? Does that make ANY sense? It's a bit like going to war over weapons of mass destruction that are magically gone once the shelling begins. "Well, since we're already HERE..."
Will the annihilation of towns and displacement of hundreds of thousands do anything but energize a whole new generation of terrorists? Will Jews really feel any safer riding a public bus or eating at an outdoor cafe once Lebanon has been reduced to rubble? Self-defense is one thing, but the wholesale razing of towns just to kill a few terrorist leaders is insanity. It's pond-fishing with dynamite.
This is a continuing false flag operation, meant to foment strife so as to bring the world under an iron thumb, and Israel is walking right into the trap -- and, in many cases, setting it. Syria and Iran are not blameless, they are willing dupes in a grander scheme of conflict and control. Their fate is sealed, although they either don't know it or refuse to see beyond the seething hatred of the moment.
And to cover the religious aspect (and please, atheists and "religion is the cause of all evil" people, feel free to not spew your distaste), the Israeli government, and by extension its people, have eschewed God's deliverance in favor of exricating it on their own. Many Jews today live in an ecumenical cloud, and the refusal to recognize Christ as the Son of God and the Messiah (and therein His teachings) is leading them to destruction. They believe they're fulfilling their role as protectors of Israel, but in reality they are reflecting a loss of confidence in God. Exactly who do you think the 144,000 are? No one in the Israeli government, I'd say.
i say better that terrorists die.
even if it takes wiping out and destroying Iran and Syria and any other country who wants to defend terrorists.
Just blow them away and US and Israel needs to stop worrying about innocent civilians and only targetting military targets. Show them we mean business. Destroy whatever is in our way that hides terrorists.
Oh yeah after we destroy them let us not send money to rebuild let themselves worry about that.
even if it takes wiping out and destroying Iran and Syria and any other country who wants to defend terrorists.
Just blow them away and US and Israel needs to stop worrying about innocent civilians and only targetting military targets. Show them we mean business. Destroy whatever is in our way that hides terrorists.
Oh yeah after we destroy them let us not send money to rebuild let themselves worry about that.
Burke wrote:(paraphrase)....the Israeli government, and by extension its people, have eschewed Gd's deliverance in favor of exricating it on their own. Many Jews today live in an ecumenical cloud, and the refusal to recognize Christ as the Son of Gd and the Messiah (and therein His teachings) is leading them to destruction. They believe they're fulfilling their role as protectors of Israel, but in reality they are reflecting a loss of confidence in God. Exactly who do you think the 144,000 are? No one in the Israeli government, I'd say.
That, "Thou shalt not kill" thingie. It would be nice if all could follow the peaceful lessons of Yshua.
A read of Haaretz would quickly show that not all Israelis are in lockstep with this treachery. Sadly, their opinions will save no lives.
Hell_Yes
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche
Pity me that I cannot stomach the site of innocent children dying, regardless of the cause.Grouch wrote:i say better that terrorists die.
even if it takes wiping out and destroying Iran and Syria and any other country who wants to defend terrorists.
Just blow them away and US and Israel needs to stop worrying about innocent civilians and only targetting military targets. Show them we mean business. Destroy whatever is in our way that hides terrorists.
Oh yeah after we destroy them let us not send money to rebuild let themselves worry about that.
Hell_Yes
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche
Hell_Yes wrote:That, "Thou shalt not kill" thingie. It would be nice if all could follow the peaceful lessons of Yshua.
A read of Haaretz would quickly show that not all Israelis are in lockstep with this treachery. Sadly, their opinions will save no lives.
Defending your life against terrorists is not killing and murdering.
Since now bin laden has called for attack on Israel, I hope to see Israel unleash all they got and stop holding back. The longer they hold back more innocent lives in Israel will be lost.
Originally Posted by Hell_Yes
Pity me that I cannot stomach the site of innocent children dying, regardless of the cause.
Pity me that I cannot stomach the site of innocent children dying, regardless of the cause.
Grouch wrote:No worries Israeli's will do the tough work since no one else can.
Hell_Yes
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche
Hezbollah is not the point. Had it not been for the Phalangists and Israelis massacreing the Palestinians in the first place that organization would not exist. Its besides the point the 2 are acting in the same manner. Neither have regard for civilians and neither are following the rules. The difference being that democratic states should not be acting in such a manner and treating civilians as though they are all responsible is wrong. Collective punishment may work for the moment. Just wait till those people are over their grief and are out of the hospitals. Now you will have Hizbollah 2x the size it was.Joint Chiefs of Staff wrote:Agreed Pie but does it justify Hezbollah miltia hiding among innocent civilians?
Pie
SG Pimp Name : *Treacherous P. Shizzle*
*
The fight for our way of life needs to be fought on our own soil, for our own people and because of our own interests.
*
Hey, If Me & My Buddies Were Making Billions of Dollars I'd Tell Ya What Ya Wanted To Hear Too!
*
The fight for our way of life needs to be fought on our own soil, for our own people and because of our own interests.
*
Hey, If Me & My Buddies Were Making Billions of Dollars I'd Tell Ya What Ya Wanted To Hear Too!
Yes I saw that. Its a shame. they were throwing garbage on them and calling them traitors and terrorists. In this whole thing I would say Haaretz has been one of the more reliable news sources.Hell_Yes wrote:That, "Thou shalt not kill" thingie. It would be nice if all could follow the peaceful lessons of Yshua.
A read of Haaretz would quickly show that not all Israelis are in lockstep with this treachery. Sadly, their opinions will save no lives.
Pie
SG Pimp Name : *Treacherous P. Shizzle*
*
The fight for our way of life needs to be fought on our own soil, for our own people and because of our own interests.
*
Hey, If Me & My Buddies Were Making Billions of Dollars I'd Tell Ya What Ya Wanted To Hear Too!
*
The fight for our way of life needs to be fought on our own soil, for our own people and because of our own interests.
*
Hey, If Me & My Buddies Were Making Billions of Dollars I'd Tell Ya What Ya Wanted To Hear Too!
-
Joint Chiefs of Staff
- Posts: 42832
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: The Sandbox
P, indeed both are not playing by the rules. I should have clarifed both but how can I really when the Israel Army is in plan site while the Hezbollah and it's supporters are mixing in with the innocent?thepieman wrote:Hezbollah is not the point. Had it not been for the Phalangists and Israelis massacreing the Palestinians in the first place that organization would not exist. Its besides the point the 2 are acting in the same manner. Neither have regard for civilians and neither are following the rules. The difference being that democratic states should not be acting in such a manner and treating civilians as though they are all responsible is wrong. Collective punishment may work for the moment. Just wait till those people are over their grief and are out of the hospitals. Now you will have Hizbollah 2x the size it was.
Pie
>>Cult Master of International Affairs<<
-
Far-N-Wide
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1160
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2000 12:00 am
- Location: His Tavern of Solitude
Far-N-Wide wrote:Chief,
P's not gonna get it... He's clearly pushing on a door marked pull.
The Israeli people 82% behind the war effort with the promise of security. Does this at all seem familiar? Were they to see the havoc wrought upon innocents in the flesh they might feel a bit different.
No, war seldom clean, but how far does Israel need to go to meet its objective? Why are they demolishing civilian infrastructure? Why the Beirut airport?
Mind you, the rest of the Eastern Muslim world is having a field day while Lebanon burns. Israel is all but printing anti-Western banners and slogans.
Hell_Yes
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche
-
Joint Chiefs of Staff
- Posts: 42832
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: The Sandbox
The Arab and Kuwaiti Times are showing nothing but in the flesh dead Lebanese civilians on almost every single page of it's newspapers...every single day. It's to the point going to the local Starbucks is not worth it anymore. The once smiling faces of the local Kuwaiti's that also frequent my favorite establishment, the very ones that called me there friend, now walk on by me without a simple hello. Hell, I am an American but why blame me? Why the hell are the Muslims taking it out on the US?Hell_Yes wrote:
Mind you, the rest of the Eastern Muslim world is having a field day while Lebanon burns. Israel is all but printing anti-Western banners and slogans.
>>Cult Master of International Affairs<<
Jamie_R wrote:Because the U.S. backs Israel without question.
Yep. It's the same as when people blame Iran & Syria for Hezzbollah. They funnel money/weapons to them, we funnel money/weapons to israel. War by proxy.
I'd take a close look at the foam in your latte next time you visit starbucks jcos.
My son ... ask for thyself another internet connection, for that which I leave is too slow for thee
Jamie_R wrote:Because the U.S. backs Israel without question.
As we back Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and most notably Kuwait.
I see the problem as the US not pressing Israel for a ceasefire. One Israeli minister took it upon himself to declare the Rome stalemate as a green light for continuing the war.
Hell_Yes
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity - Seneca
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. - Friedrich Nietzsche
I wouldn't consider 600mph at an altitude of 10,000ft in plain site exactly. The ground troops come in after a bombing raid and then leave soon afterwards. They are bombing places where Hizbollah hasn't even been. That is coming from baptist ministers who have been in Lebanon doing missionary work even before the war started and are familiar with whats going on over there.Joint Chiefs of Staff wrote:P, indeed both are not playing by the rules. I should have clarifed both but how can I really when the Israel Army is in plan site while the Hezbollah and it's supporters are mixing in with the innocent?
Lets not forget also even before the war, that complaints were constantly lodged about constant fly-overs made by Israeli recon planes. That shouldn't be considered doing things on the level either.
Pie
SG Pimp Name : *Treacherous P. Shizzle*
*
The fight for our way of life needs to be fought on our own soil, for our own people and because of our own interests.
*
Hey, If Me & My Buddies Were Making Billions of Dollars I'd Tell Ya What Ya Wanted To Hear Too!
*
The fight for our way of life needs to be fought on our own soil, for our own people and because of our own interests.
*
Hey, If Me & My Buddies Were Making Billions of Dollars I'd Tell Ya What Ya Wanted To Hear Too!
Dude your mindset flew past the door right out the window ...your ideas fell headfirst from a 10 story window.Far-N-Wide wrote:Chief,
P's not gonna get it... He's clearly pushing on a door marked pull.
SG Pimp Name : *Treacherous P. Shizzle*
*
The fight for our way of life needs to be fought on our own soil, for our own people and because of our own interests.
*
Hey, If Me & My Buddies Were Making Billions of Dollars I'd Tell Ya What Ya Wanted To Hear Too!
*
The fight for our way of life needs to be fought on our own soil, for our own people and because of our own interests.
*
Hey, If Me & My Buddies Were Making Billions of Dollars I'd Tell Ya What Ya Wanted To Hear Too!
