For those interested in the "FAIR TAX"

JC · Post by JC » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:24 pm

Here are a couple good reads on the "FAIR TAX" that I found.

I'm sold on it myself.

http://www.economicfreedomcoalition.org ... ometax.asp

http://www.economicfreedomcoalition.org/iep-fairtax.asp

Sarahnn · Post by **Sarahnn** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:07 pm

JC, thanks for the links. We have two really strong advocates over at my homesite and they just happen to be from Ga. Do you think that is a coincidence?

Anyway, I borrowed your links and thank you.

Myself?? I don't know much about the success probability of the Fair Tax, but your know what?? I'd be willing to try anything to eliminate the old dragon we call Income Tax.

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:02 pm

probability of it happening is low, but i'm sold too.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:56 pm

if it could be implimented/executed as promised, i'm sold as well.

David · Post by **David** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:23 am

Restructuring tax would only shift the burden from one class to another. The aforementioned system appears to have greater opportunity for malfeasance than the present.

I would like to see some simplification of the codes and assuredly elimination of cheats and pork, but wary of wholesale changes. What appears too good to be true, often is as such.

david

JC · Post by JC » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:53 am

Hell_Yes wrote:Restructuring tax would only shift the burden from one class to another.

david

Please explain??

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:04 am

JC wrote:Please explain??

4 or 5 percent of the population, pay around 90 percent of Federal collected taxes on the population. (excluding business here) That burden would shift.

From what I understand, this would mean a shift upwards for most of the middle class in taxes. Considering of course that your elected officials, keep doing what they are doing now. Spending like the dickens and making sure they get an increase in wages for time spent at the public trough, not taking care of our business.

Now if they work it like the last Bush tax breaks and cut a lot of programs that were earmarked for the states, then you loose again. The states just up income tax/property tax or add another penny or two (usually this is the one that gets passed) to your sales tax. Burden once again shifted to the poor and middle class. You didn't really end up with a tax cut. It just appears that way when you file since nobody really keeps track of how much they pay out in sales tax.

There isn't a savy way of making it all right without cutting the pork and doing a better job of cutting the national debt.

Sarahnn · Post by **Sarahnn** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:54 am

Hell_Yes wrote:Restructuring tax would only shift the burden from one class to another. The aforementioned system appears to have greater opportunity for malfeasance than the present.

I would like to see some simplification of the codes and assuredly elimination of cheats and pork, but wary of wholesale changes. What appears too good to be true, often is as such.

david

In a sense, you are right. People who are raising children and must provide clothes, health care, food, supplies, transportation, and higher education would have the heaviest burden because you cannot really cut back when you have adolescents in the house. They require alot of investment to prepare them to complete in the job market.

Does anyone know how we could handle that?

Aside from that the burden would be shifted to the consumer who would then be required to spend more wisely. What I am afraid of is that someone always finds a way to get around paying taxes. I wonder what the catch would be in this case?

But these are just some of the down sides.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:12 am

Fair Tax ?!?!?!

No such thing.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:16 am

How are taxes viewed in other countries....say in Europe, or even in Canada?

JC · Post by JC » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:37 pm

Sarahnn wrote:In a sense, you are right. People who are raising children and must provide clothes, health care, food, supplies, transportation, and higher education would have the heaviest burden because you cannot really cut back when you have adolescents in the house. They require alot of investment to prepare them to complete in the job market.

Does anyone know how we could handle that?

Aside from that the burden would be shifted to the consumer who would then be required to spend more wisely. What I am afraid of is that someone always finds a way to get around paying taxes. I wonder what the catch would be in this case?

But these are just some of the down sides.

Here is a page with some good information. It might help answer some questions.

(Also I have five copies left of the FAIR TAX BOOK that I will send @ no charge to the first five who wish.The book is a easy read (150 some pages) and may give some a real history lesson on how our current tax system came into place. All I ask is when finished give it to someone else.

Thanks
John

http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/smart/sketch.html

Sarahnn · Post by **Sarahnn** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:48 pm

JC wrote:Here is a page with some good information. It might help answer some questions.

(Also I have five copies left of the FAIR TAX BOOK that I will send @ no charge to the first five who wish.The book is a easy read (150 some pages) and may give some a real history lesson on how our current tax system came into place. All I ask is when finished give it to someone else.

Thanks
John

http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/smart/sketch.html

JC?? Did you happen to attend the Fair Tax Rally in Gwinnet County recently?

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:56 pm

Eh, they pay everyone an estimated amount for things like clothes and food (tax on essentials of life). It is a simplification (from thousands of pages to a hundred or two). There is no income tax, no FEDERAL sales tax, etc., that means you keep 100% of your check and pay out roughly 23% sales tax on all good. Their THEORY is that the price of goods will drop ROUGHLY the same amount b/c of what they call "embedded taxes" or the costs imposed by the current tax system on corporations. No way to find out for sure unless it happens, and it probably will not.

JC · Post by JC » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:02 pm

Sarahnn wrote:JC?? Did you happen to attend the Fair Tax Rally in Gwinnet County recently?

I was on my way, when a friend called and said the place was at max capacity in like 30 minutes.

Do you live in GA?????

Far-N-Wide · Post by **Far-N-Wide** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:05 am

YeOldeStonecat wrote:How are taxes viewed in other countries....say in Europe, or even in Canada?

I've been to England, and wow you don't even want to discuss taxes in a pub. Britts get taxed on everything they own. From the type of radio they own in their cars, number of speakers (size), to the number of TV sets in their homes, also the width of the screen matters. bigger screen's bigger taxes. This list goes on and on.

Folks who complain about the US and how tuff we have it here... packup and move to another country. You'd be jumping the fence from Mexico to the US too.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:46 am

Far-N-Wide wrote:
Folks who complain about the US and how tuff we have it here... packup and move to another country. You'd be jumping the fence from Mexico to the US too.

That's what I tend to hear most of the time. Guess it's not trendy to bash them though.

David · Post by **David** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:12 am

The problem lies in the lack common sense. Paying taxes is covering the money our government is spending. Think of it as a group of friends figuring out a restaurant check. No matter how you choose to divide it, the bill still must get paid. The only change is the a shift in the burden from one diner to another.

Cheats, who are avoiding the payment of taxes would still find ways around it. Bartering comes to mind.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:56 am

Far-N-Wide wrote:Folks who complain about the US and how tuff we have it here... packup and move to another country. You'd be jumping the fence from Mexico to the US too.

So because our taxes arent as bad as other places we shouldnt complain?

Hell_Yes wrote:The problem lies in the lack common sense. Paying taxes is covering the money our government is spending. Think of it as a group of friends figuring out a restaurant check. No matter how you choose to divide it, the bill still must get paid. The only change is the a shift in the burden from one diner to another.

If we could look at the acual spending of our government, I think we would see a lot of areas we could cut costs on stupid, or overpriced junk.

Sarahnn · Post by **Sarahnn** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:05 am

JC wrote:I was on my way, when a friend called and said the place was at max capacity in like 30 minutes.

Do you live in GA?????

No I got two cyber friends who do and one got in and the other drove around the block dodging police cars turning people away. I heard the lines amounted to thousands of attendees.

I think ole Boortz is going to take this effort on the road. I hope he does. Do you listen to him? Where abouts in general are ya? You must be nearby anyway. eh?

David · Post by **David** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:52 am

YARDofSTUF wrote:
If we could look at the acual spending of our government, I think we would see a lot of areas we could cut costs on stupid, or overpriced junk.

We can view government spending, however what control do we have over it on the federal level? Assuredly, it is not with the ballot box.

Sarahnn · Post by **Sarahnn** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:57 am

Hell_Yes wrote:
Cheats, who are avoiding the payment of taxes would still find ways around it. Bartering comes to mind.

But, don't forget the goods have to be purchased before they can be bartered.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:09 am

Hell_Yes wrote:We can view government spending, however what control do we have over it on the federal level? Assuredly, it is not with the ballot box.

No, we really need to start raiding officials homes and lynching the the ones we dont approve of.

David · Post by **David** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:49 pm

Sarahnn wrote:But, don't forget the goods have to be purchased before they can be bartered.

Pre-retail sales are taxed?

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:19 pm

The only real way to repair the tax situation is to get control of the spending...

People need to be held responsible for themselves and their actions... As does companies, special interest groups, lobbyists, gov personnel., etc...

To be honest, if we got rid of most of our current civil service peeps and replace them with competents, a change would be seen immediately...
The higher ups are surrounded by incompetent subordinates that have no clue nor care as to what is going on...
You want to talk to a dumba$$ that has no clue about their job, and don't care to learn, just call or visit any gov agency. It doesn't matter, City, County, State, Federal, whatever level, same mentality...
In reality, it is giving them welfare for showing up 40 hours a week. Well, except for anything that can even remotely be called a holiday...

Forgetful · Post by **Forgetful** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:29 am

Far-N-Wide wrote:I've been to England, and wow you don't even want to discuss taxes in a pub. Britts get taxed on everything they own. From the type of radio they own in their cars, number of speakers (size), to the number of TV sets in their homes, also the width of the screen matters. bigger screen's bigger taxes. This list goes on and on.

Folks who complain about the US and how tuff we have it here... packup and move to another country. You'd be jumping the fence from Mexico to the US too.

I must have missed all these taxes, or else they missed me. Indirect taxes, called vat, (value added tax), are similar to your sales taxes in the US but higher at 17.5%. Certain things are exempt such as books, food, childrens clothes etc. There are no taxes on size of tv or speakers in cars.

Far-N-Wide · Post by **Far-N-Wide** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:29 am

I'm not a tax guy in England. But I've had some conversations on this subject in several pubs in London and in the Norwich (might be spelled wrong) area. Not a large sampling but enough to know it's pretty bad. If i'm wrong, I'll addmit it. But these folks that I talked to said they are taxed on dam near everything.

They said they got tucks that drive around in UK with antennas for monitoring your TV sets magnetic fields, (for number of sets and screen size... again for tax purposes).

I never saw any in the UK but I have seen some in Germany (back in late 80's) used for FCC type monitoring of microwave frequency use enfocement.

Forgetful · Post by **Forgetful** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:21 pm

Far-N-Wide wrote:I'm not a tax guy in England. But I've had some conversations on this subject in several pubs in London and in the Norwich (might be spelled wrong) area. Not a large sampling but enough to know it's pretty bad. If i'm wrong, I'll addmit it. But these folks that I talked to said they are taxed on dam near everything.

They said they got tucks that drive around in UK with antennas for monitoring your TV sets magnetic fields, (for number of sets and screen size... again for tax purposes).

I never saw any in the UK but I have seen some in Germany (back in late 80's) used for FCC type monitoring of microwave frequency use enfocement.

TV detector vans they are. You need a license for receiving tv here, it pays for the BBC and i for one want that to stay. Some people are against it but i consider it a bargain. Works out at about $200 a year. It's a fix rate per household irrespective of how many tv's you have.
As for the "taxed on everything".... mostly true but more annoying is the rip-off prices we pay through greedy retailers, importers etc. Check out the price UK against the price US, or even European, and you'll see what i mean. Most of that can't be put down to taxes.