Flight 93 footage thats rarely seen

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:22 pm

Never saw this before. Just like the pentagon you just see a hole and no plane!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZekosYOmXc

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:33 pm

Never seen that one before.

jz82 · Post by **jz82** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:38 pm

There's strong evidence the plane was destroyed in the air, that accounts for the wide radius of debris and the last 3-4 minutes of the flight data recorders being "damaged".

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:41 pm

the rabbit hole goes deep

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:46 pm

Tell me more of this rabbit you speak of.

jz82 · Post by **jz82** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:47 pm

Although it's interesting, the evidence for WTC demolition and foreknowledge is just as strong (stronger in some ways, we have live video), yet it doesn't fit into the official account most people have, so they dismiss it. F93 is kind of an afterthought, people are willing to accept that it was shot down and the government was telling the truth about everything else.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:52 pm

jz82 wrote:Although it's interesting, the evidence for WTC demolition and foreknowledge is just as strong (stronger in some ways, we have live video),

LOL, only in your own little demented CT'ist world is that "demolition" evidence strong.

I'll give you the plane being shot down option, that one was quite possible.

jz82 · Post by **jz82** » Fri May 05, 2006 12:00 am

It is strong...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... =jeff+king
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/tower ... ction.html

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri May 05, 2006 12:06 am

roofleberries!!! weaksauce dude, weaksauce, present something that hasn't already been debunked, and I'll give you the time of day

jz82 · Post by **jz82** » Fri May 05, 2006 12:13 am

How has that been debunked? Infact the second link specifically debunks both the column and truss failure theories.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Fri May 05, 2006 12:16 am

Prey521 wrote:Never seen that one before.

me neither till today.

Pie

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Fri May 05, 2006 12:57 am

If there was one video that I saw that had any merit without Missiles in it and dumbazz theories it would be this one. Its long but i never saw this before a couple of days ago and it was filmed as it was happening over in Hoboken.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... eyewitness

All of the WTC and the Pentagon as well as that flight all have in common are everything is practically pulverized! Except for the ID cards and that terrorists passport!
The WTC7 collapse is just so amazing in this one. It just goes down!

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:29 am

Prey521 wrote:roofleberries!!! weaksauce dude, weaksauce, present something that hasn't already been debunked, and I'll give you the time of day

Dude you have to admit...its very obvious in all the events that little or no evidence was left. Airliners crash a lot and there was always debris. Didn't that news video that was obviously shelved show that there was just a hole and no plane there??

The MIT one is also the same as the link I posted.

Pie

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri May 05, 2006 8:36 am

Pie, I'm not debating the Flight 93 theory, cuz it very well may have been shot down, my arguement is with these stupid theories about the towers being brought down by explosives.

Kip Patterson · Post by **Kip Patterson** » Fri May 05, 2006 8:45 am

The problem with all the conspiracy theories is that each had to involve hundreds to thousands of people, many of which would have been unwittingly involved.

Take flight 93, for example. The weapons used to shoot it down were inventoried somewhere. Somebody dispatched the aircraft, maintained them after the flight, concealed the evidence on the ground, and forged the cockpit voice tapes. The radio transmissions are all unencoded, available to anyone with a scanner.

Many of the people involved have every reason to be opposed to such a conspiracy and a willingness to speak out. Where are those people?

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri May 05, 2006 8:48 am

Kip Patterson wrote:The problem with all the conspiracy theories is that each had to involve hundreds to thousands of people, many of which would have been unwittingly invoved.

Take flight 93, for example. The weapons used to shoot it down were inventoried somewhere. Somebody dispatched the aircraft, maintained them after the flight, concealed the evidence on the ground, and forged the cockpit voice tapes. The radio transmissions are all unencoded, available to anyone with a scanner.

Many of the people involved have every reason to be opposed to such a conspiracy and a willingness to speak out. Where are those people?

That is a good question..by now someone would have leaked.

Same thing with no plane hitting pentagon..well where did those people on the plane go?

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:06 am

Kip Patterson wrote:The problem with all the conspiracy theories is that each had to involve hundreds to thousands of people, many of which would have been unwittingly invoved.

Take flight 93, for example. The weapons used to shoot it down were inventoried somewhere. Somebody dispatched the aircraft, maintained them after the flight, concealed the evidence on the ground, and forged the cockpit voice tapes. The radio transmissions are all unencoded, available to anyone with a scanner.

Many of the people involved have every reason to be opposed to such a conspiracy and a willingness to speak out. Where are those people?

If someone is convinced that such an action is in the best interest of preserving the country, they would have no problem with keeping quiet. Like corporate scandals, only the people at the top know the extent and truth of something; everyone below them are convinced they're doing what's in the best interest of the company, or merely complete their assigned tasks with no knowledge of how it contributes to the bigger picture.

Just look at how many people take old military secrets to their grave, secrets more than 60 years old and likely to have zero impact if revealed today.

blebs · Post by **blebs** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:03 am

I said it on 9/11 when it happened, 93 was shot down. They can tell us what they want, but it's one big lie and covered up just as Burke has suggested. Fed. Gov is good at that!

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:20 am

I’ll openly admit that the government is full of liars and crooks but the vast number of people needed to pull off such a trick is many. Individuals are pretty much trustworthy but a gathering of two or more government individuals is a receipt for “leak.” I want to believe conspiracy just like you as the facts support it to the nth degree but to keep than many people quiet is more than Houdini could control.

I miss Indy.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:23 am

MadDoctor wrote:I miss Indy.

So does Brandon

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:38 am

[quote="MadDoctor"]I&#8217]

There needn't be a "vast number" to pull off such a "trick." You only need a few dozen, planners and footmen alike, people who believe in the action, whether it be for their own selfish gains, out of unwavering allegiance to superiors, or a twisted logic of how a smaller sacrifice will strengthen the country. You set up the game quietly (thermite on the support beams, etc.), and then you hold the back door open for Islamic fundamentalists to come in, and you let them pull off their plot as cover while the small cabal truly responsible does their thing. They think they've struck a blow against the Great Satan, and everyone is so enraged at the "brown people" they dismiss all else.

It happens all the time, all over the world. Do you think every military op is known among the largesse? The CIA assassinates leaders or trains those who do, and we only learn about it decades after the fact. Hell, almost every bill passed in Congress has **** attached to it that has nothing to do with the bill, and beyond the backscratchers, very few are any the wiser -- even more, when it does come to light, it barely registers in the brains of the populace. For something as heinous as government involvement in the most significant event in the past 150 years, it would be beyond the realm of comprehension for those same people.

It's not impossible, nor is it pure "conspiracy theory." You can quibble as to the varying degrees of complicity by higher-ups in the government all day, but one cannot deny that all things are not what they seem when it comes to the events of 9/11.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:52 am

Prey521 wrote:Pie, I'm not debating the Flight 93 theory, cuz it very well may have been shot down, my arguement is with these stupid theories about the towers being brought down by explosives.

I am with Prey...in fact I dont know why the govt would want to cover up 93 being shot down...majroity of people would be in agreement right thing to do.

but as far WTC set with explosives...no go...there are way too many people around between maintenance people and security to be able to pull of something like that it is just absurd.

I definitely believe there is some possible truth to some conspiracy theories such as in religion for example latest gospels that were discovered..perfect example

but something such as 9/11 where i witnessed myself in person and many others those planes crashing into those buildings and the fire and smoke..and see those towers crumbling down...

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:56 am

Yes, it is pure conspiracy, plain and simple. Bringing down flight 93 was possible, bringing down the towers the way the CT'ist say it happened, is about 99% impossible, and that's giving you guys room to breath. They have no solid evidence whatsoever about bombs, charges being implanted anywhere. Then there are the idiots that claim that the charges were setoff by remote control LMMFAO!

IMO, most CTs are simply acting in the capacity of slimy defense lawyers who are trying desperately to sow some kind of doubt to get their obviously guilty clients off by using unfounded conjecture, bad science, rumors, ideology, and emotion under the guise of 'trying to find the truth'.

Why can't the '911 truth movement' get qualified structural engineers to join their ranks? Why doesn't a demolitions expert step forward and describe exactly how the industry would be able to demolish those three buildings?

These techniques of finding conspiracy in every event began with events like the moon landings have been honed to perfection with 911. All we can ever look forward to from now on after every major event that ever takes place is somebody with access to create a web site claiming it is a conspiracy.

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:01 am

Ghosthunter wrote:but as far WTC set with explosives...no go...there are way too many people around between maintenance people and security to be able to pull of something like that it is just absurd

Well, unless you count a 36 hour "power down" on floors 50 and up on September 8 and 9. I'm sure it's just coincidence, and that security and maintenance were all done in-house and were on all floors at every moment during that time.

Not that you'll read them, but:

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?sto ... 8104223192

http://www.911oz.com/link.phtml?id=60&nav_id=navbutt_3

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:06 am

I always knew that you were into conspiracies Burke, but I always assumed that you had more sense than to believe such nonsense as this.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:09 am

Oh, and that power down story is pure BS:

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc_power_down.html

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:14 am

Prey521 wrote:Oh, and that power down story is pure BS:

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc_power_down.html

Interesting, I will read it carefully and get back to you.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:18 am

Burke wrote:Well, unless you count a 36 hour "power down" on floors 50 and up on September 8 and 9. I'm sure it's just coincidence, and that security and maintenance were all done in-house and were on all floors at every moment during that time.

Not that you'll read them, but:

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?sto ... 8104223192

http://www.911oz.com/link.phtml?id=60&nav_id=navbutt_3

ok for the heck of it...i did read both of them while it sounds nice...way too many fishy things there

for one why would they need to shut the power down? It makes aboslutely no sense whatsoever...especially after the 1993 attack...that is just crazy

does this guy even exist?

even if he does how come no other people will collaborate? if that many floors were effected other IT people would know about this...and still why would they need to shutdown their systems..in NYC everything is on backups generators for the most part..except really small companies

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Fri May 05, 2006 12:55 pm

thepieman wrote:If there was one video that I saw that had any merit without Missiles in it and dumbazz theories it would be this one. Its long but i never saw this before a couple of days ago and it was filmed as it was happening over in Hoboken.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... eyewitness

All of the WTC and the Pentagon as well as that flight all have in common are everything is practically pulverized! Except for the ID cards and that terrorists passport!
The WTC7 collapse is just so amazing in this one. It just goes down!

great video....proof that explosions were going off before the collapse...long before the collapse.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:14 pm

UOD wrote:great video....proof that explosions were going off before the collapse...long before the collapse.

still doesnt answer how they got these so called explosives inside WTC without anyone noticing

the whole power shutdown theory is obviously more propaganda since banks and majority of the financial institutions would never shutdown.

CLAIM: Seismographs at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, N.Y., 21 miles north of the WTC, recorded the events of 9/11. "The strongest jolts were all registered at the beginning of the collapses, well before falling debris struck the earth," reports the Web site WhatReallyHappened.com.

A columnist on Prisonplanet.com, a Web site run by radio talk show host Alex Jones, claims the seismic spikes (boxed area on Graph 1) are "indisputable proof that massive explosions brought down" the towers. The Web site says its findings are supported by two seismologists at the observatory, Won-Young Kim and Arthur Lerner-Lam. Each "sharp spike of short duration," says Prisonplanet.com, was consistent with a "demolition-style implosion."

FACT: "There is no scientific basis for the conclusion that explosions brought down the towers," Lerner-Lam tells PM. "That representation of our work is categorically incorrect and not in context."

The report issued by Lamont-Doherty includes various graphs showing the seismic readings produced by the planes crashing into the two towers as well as the later collapse of both buildings. WhatReallyHappened.com chooses to display only one graph (Graph 1), which shows the readings over a 30-minute time span.

On that graph, the 8- and 10-second collapses appear--misleadingly--as a pair of sudden spikes. Lamont-Doherty's 40-second plot of the same data (Graph 2) gives a much more detailed picture: The seismic waves--blue for the South Tower, red for the North Tower--start small and then escalate as the buildings rumble to the ground. Translation: no bombs.

from popular mechanics which i tend to believe has a lot more credibility then alex jones and whatreallyhappened

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... page=5&c=y

here is an official report from the seismologist who documented this that alex jones claims is evidence:

http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/prrl/prrl0128.html

fastchevy · Post by **fastchevy** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:30 pm

words can't describe what I feel when I watch this..I'm laughing at the little pop-up commentaries. Counting the choppers, etc.
"explosions in the building"
No ****???? There is a plane filled with the jet fuel sitting in the building!! Yeah, there are going to be explosions in there.
People loooooove to gossip

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:38 pm

UOD wrote:great video....proof that explosions were going off before the collapse...long before the collapse.

LMAO, not you too! Oh dear lord!

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:41 pm

fastchevy wrote:words can't describe what I feel when I watch this..I'm laughing at the little pop-up commentaries. Counting the choppers, etc.
"explosions in the building"
No ****???? There is a plane filled with the jet fuel sitting in the building!! Yeah, there are going to be explosions in there.
People loooooove to gossip

People cannot accept the fact that US got beat by terrorists on that day ...and though we are a super power, when we become too relaxed and complacent reality sets in, and failure of intelligence. Our govt is guilty of not doing enough prior to 9-11 especially after the first attacks on WTC in 1993. Of course our govt is full of crooks and corruption..but lets just face it..lot of screws up and was a very sad day but there was no huge conspiracy...

fastchevy · Post by **fastchevy** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:43 pm

I know! The chopper threw some molatov cocktails into some of the broken windows! That was it.

Yeah, as soon as GW heard about the disaster while reading to little kids he said, we need to cover this up. Get some choppers there and blow the rest of the building up!

I had to stop the video..it was just too much.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:44 pm

fastchevy wrote:I know! The chopper threw some molatov cocktails into some of the broken windows! That was it.

Yeah, as soon as GW heard about the disaster while reading to little kids he said, we need to cover this up. Get some choppers there and blow the rest of the building up!

I had to stop the video..it was just too much.

LOL

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:45 pm

UOD wrote:great video....proof that explosions were going off before the collapse...long before the collapse.

Did you see towards the end of the video, WTC7 the almost perfect collapse within its own footprint? The whole building just *poof* in a matter of seconds. A block away from the towers. I know I'd be extremely wary of working in ANY modern building then, if this is no conspiracy and its just a fire that takes a whole building down like that. It doesn't say much for our building standards and fire codes.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:46 pm

fastchevy wrote:I know! The chopper threw some molatov cocktails into some of the broken windows! That was it.

Yeah, as soon as GW heard about the disaster while reading to little kids he said, we need to cover this up. Get some choppers there and blow the rest of the building up!

I had to stop the video..it was just too much.

CT'ist prey on those that are easily persuaded with bogus facts, fancy #'s and the whole "look, did you see that, that's a bomb going off". They think that if they garner enough "soldiers for the cause", that it somehow makes their claims valid. Sad life to live I tell ya!

fastchevy · Post by **fastchevy** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:46 pm

UOD wrote:great video....proof that explosions were going off before the collapse...long before the collapse.

yeah...jet fuel has a bad habit about doing that sometimes

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:52 pm

thepieman wrote:Did you see towards the end of the video, WTC7 the almost perfect collapse within its own footprint? The whole building just *poof* in a matter of seconds. A block away from the towers. I know I'd be extremely wary of working in ANY modern building then, if this is no conspiracy and its just a fire that takes a whole building down like that. It doesn't say much for our building standards and fire codes.

WTC7 suffered massive structural damage from fire AND from falling debris as the towers collapsed.

Battalion Chief John Norman
Special Operations Command - 22 years

From there, we looked out at 7 World Trade Center again. You could see smoke, but no visible fire, and some damage to the south face. You couldn&#8217]

Captain Chris Boyle
Engine 94 - 18 years

Boyle: ...on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good.

Firehouse: When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?

Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.

Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?

Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. We lost touch with him. I never saw him again that day.

Fire chief Daniel Nigro clearly thought the building could collapse. Here's why.

The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged [WTC Building 7]. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building's integrity was in serious doubt.

Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
Division 1 - 33 years

...also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Fri May 05, 2006 2:06 pm

Prey521 wrote:WTC7 suffered massive structural damage from fire AND from falling debris as the towers collapsed.

Ok but it was 47 stories high. Almost 1/2 the size of the WTC. It didn't just break or fall apart. It dropped straight down. Some of the other buildings around it had the same type of damage but you see 1/2 the facade drop off or corners of the building got damaged. WTC1 you see the top of the building tip over and you would think the top would have just came off and fell into the street but it continued down almost perfectly with debris shooting up into the air rather then just coming down like normal.
Guys I could understand the jet fuel burning but these are steel office buildings not wooden homes. Office equipment, computers,desks, chairs, papers, and drywall.