Homosexuals handed bush win!

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:32 pm

Blisster wrote:I think graphic images of aborted fetuses are worse than seeing two people express there affection for one another, but if you don't, I suppose that explains alot fo things

The images are indeed disturbing, but to me so is the public display of homosexuality. Sugar coat it with words like "affection" to make me out as a intolerant tyrant if you like, but it doesn't change my view.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:32 pm

bigmo66 wrote:There are countless freedoms lost. The seperation of church and state has been misused and abused for one.

What is so hard to understand about the gay marriage thing? It isn't the union of gays, it is the definition of marriage that I don't want changed. The attack is on the mainstream definition of marriage. Why change it now? Do we all have to succumb to the new "progressive" generation? I'll not.

Anything goes isn't always the smart move, but it's the movement none the less.

Whose definition? The Christian Fundamentalist definition? Your definition? Who cares what your definition is? The Constitution does not AND will NEVER support a religious definition of marriage.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

does the above mean anything to you?

The Constitution or the Amendments make no mention of marriage because IT IS NOT A FUNCTION OF GOVERNMENT!!!!!! Yet you want your government to make it a function!!!!!!!!!

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:38 pm

bigmo66 wrote:The images are indeed disturbing, but to me so is the public display of homosexuality. Sugar coat it with words like "affection" to make me out as a intolerant tyrant if you like, but it doesn't change my view.

obviously i don't need to sugarcoat anything to make you out as anything, you do a great job of it on your own.
get over your own discomfort, there were many religons before yours became so prominent in this world, and some day yours too will fall by the wayside and be replaced with one that others, with just as much or more conviction as you, are convinced is the "one true way." We are all in this world and this life together, we need to get through it together, regarless of our individual beliefs. I don;t need to tell you what to believe in or who or what to worship or who you can or cant marry or how you should bring up your children, so why are you so determined to tell me how I should live my life? because your way is "right" and I have lost my way?

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:40 pm

bigmo66 wrote:So where does it end UOD? Are there no perversions, no limits, nothing too rediculous to define as just plain wrong? People's rights to an abortion are protected, but inmy town and many others where "Pro-life" activists display gruesome images of late term abortions, the same folks are calling for their heads claiming their rights are being violated by being exposed to the images. Where's the freedom there? Who are the sign holders hurting. Are they any worse than taking my kids to the park only to witness to men engaged in a long, passionate kiss?

It ends with YOU my friend......NOT the government. If you want to sit here and tell me that your own parenting skills lack so much weight and that the gay married couple down the street will influence your kids?

I agree 100% that there are perversions of religion.....but that does not mean in any way that they are perversions of freedom...especially Constitutionally protected freedoms.

What I really worry about though Mo....is that your kid, my kid, could be one of those guys involved in the long passionate kiss. Would we call it a perversion then?

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:42 pm

UOD wrote:....does the above mean anything to you?

Yes and I served for 20+ years because I liked to serve and I am proud of the USA. I am proud of the fact that we haven't (yet) given into all the ills of the world. I've been to countries where the sexual perversions would make anyone blush and disgusts me. If that is what true freedom is all about, we are going to do ourselves in. Can you tell me that we aren't becoming desensitized to all sorts of demeaning things more and more each day. There has to be more and more shock or we aren't thrilled. Does this make our freedom more precious? With freedom comes moral responsilbilty or we implode.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:43 pm

Blisster wrote:so why are you so determined to tell me how I should live my life? because your way is "right" and I have lost my way?

Matthew 28

19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:46 pm

UOD wrote:What I really worry about though Mo....is that your kid, my kid, could be one of those guys involved in the long passionate kiss. Would we call it a perversion then?

Parental love is probably the closest love to God's. We love unconditionally, without control.

I want my kids to enjoy their free will and think for themselves. I can't shelter them or force my personal thoughts on them without taking something away from them. Therefore, regardless of my parenting skills, desires and such, they are succeptable to social impacts be it what I consider good or "bad".

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:49 pm

[quote="Blisster"]obviously i don't need to sugarcoat anything to make you out as anything, you do a great job of it on your own.
get over your own discomfort, there were many religons before yours became so prominent in this world, and some day yours too will fall by the wayside and be replaced with one that others, with just as much or more conviction as you, are convinced is the "one true way." We are all in this world and this life together, we need to get through it together, regarless of our individual beliefs. I don]

You have lost focus here Blisster. I don't see the part where I tell you how to live?

You honestly believe your comment about the fall of Christianity?

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:50 pm

Man, you guys made me zoom right past my 1k giveback. My freedom has been squelched!!!! it's a conspiricy

tao_jones · Post by **tao_jones** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:55 pm

the point behind it is that homosexuals are asking the state to recognize the marriage not the church (how many people every year arent married in a church...I am hetero and I wont be married in a church)and the last time I checked there was nothing illegal about being gay...

In the points made against gay marriage people bring up that they believe homosexuality to be a sin well if i read the first amendmant correctly

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

...there will be no laws based upon your religious beliefs again no one is saying you cant have your religous beliefs just that they shouldnt be the basis for law...I can't remember who said it here before but if you arent for gay marriage dont marry a gay person.

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:58 pm

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. "
Matthew 7:1-2

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:01 pm

bigmo66 wrote:Parental love is probably the closest love to God's. We love unconditionally, without control.

I want my kids to enjoy their free will and think for themselves. I can't shelter them or force my personal thoughts on them without taking something away from them. Therefore, regardless of my parenting skills, desires and such, they are succeptable to social impacts be it what I consider good or "bad".

Well then you do the best you can. Fortunately you have the freedom to teach your own children as you see fit. I live in the most populated state in the country....it is also a liberal stronghold and I have to tell ya the truth, I have never seen a gay couple in public kiss or grope eachother. Sounds unbelieveable but it's the truth. Maybe I don't get out much...dunno. But I don't think that gay marriage or homosexuality in general is as widespread as the Christian fundamentalist right would have us all believe.....I think they are just concerned with the possibility rather than the reality of it all.

the bigger picture here is precedent. If we allow our government to bend and ban at the will of any old special interest.....some real freedoms are really in jeopardy. Like the right to bear arms. So don't get carried away with inviting government into our homes......because the government is just like a roach....they get in and you can't get them out.

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:02 pm

bigmo66 wrote:
You honestly believe your comment about the fall of Christianity?

yes I do. Christianity has only been around in its present form for about 1600 years. Humanity has been around for alot longer. There have been many religons before chrisitanity and there will be many after. Look beyond the bible into documented history.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:04 pm

UOD wrote:Maybe I don't get out much...dunno. But I don't think that gay marriage or homosexuality in general is as widespread as the Christian fundamentalist right would have us all believe.....I think they are just concerned with the possibility rather than the reality of it all.

That raises an interesting question. Do you believe the media is partially at fault for spreading fear and confusion just for the sake of business?

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:06 pm

Blisster wrote:yes I do. Christianity has only been around in its present form for about 1600 years. Humanity has been around for alot longer. There have been many religons before chrisitanity and there will be many after. Look beyond the bible into documented history.

it isn't about religion and these labels put on that describe our faith that are important i remind you

it is the relationship we have with Christ which is everlasting

that will never fall

Damnit · Post by **Damnit** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:08 pm

It has been a while since I posted here......I can see why..

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:11 pm

Blisster wrote:yes I do. Christianity has only been around in its present form for about 1600 years. Humanity has been around for alot longer. There have been many religons before chrisitanity and there will be many after. Look beyond the bible into documented history.

Because of my beliefs as a Christian, that doesn't hold water for me because I believe God came to earth to do a work and he completed it.

As for the judge not lest I be judged - I love you

I'm not an angry, rifle-toting fundamentalist whacko with my sights fixed on the first Gay person I see. I am just as against adultry, pedophiles, rapists and such. My fear is that we will destroy ourselves with sexual immoralty as other civilizations have. Sex is the geatest gift and curse at the same time.

C'mon people, ever notice how perfect a penis slips into a vagina

Some how, I think that might just be the way we were meant to do it.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:12 pm

Damnit wrote:It has been a while since I posted here......I can see why..

Oh all right, what do you want to talk about? Xboxes, musclecars, jello? We are chameleons around here.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:13 pm

bigmo66 wrote:That raises an interesting question. Do you believe the media is partially at fault for spreading fear and confusion just for the sake of business?

Do I believe?

Does a bear sh1t in the woods?????

Media is business.....and fear sells.

BTW....acceptance of homosexuals will only endorse their natural evolution which is extinction. Homos don't make babies. So if you just accept them and NOT force them back in the closet, they will become less and less of a voice because they simply CAN'T MULTIPLY!!!!!!

Homosexuality will never be wiped out....but it will be lessend to a great degree if you just accept it. Pretty soon, homosexuals will be as rare as seeing a bald eagle.

But in the meantime, homos are very much a part of our society and they are Americans. We should afford them every right and freedom which we enjoy. They are humans...they are people, they could be family or friends or our doctors or our kids.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:18 pm

bigmo66 wrote:Yes and I served for 20+ years because I liked to serve and I am proud of the USA. I am proud of the fact that we haven't (yet) given into all the ills of the world. I've been to countries where the sexual perversions would make anyone blush and disgusts me. If that is what true freedom is all about, we are going to do ourselves in. Can you tell me that we aren't becoming desensitized to all sorts of demeaning things more and more each day. There has to be more and more shock or we aren't thrilled. Does this make our freedom more precious? With freedom comes moral responsilbilty or we implode.

Mo it could very well be that you may have served with, have had your life saved or possibly a fellow servicemans life saved by one of these people that you call perverse. Due to moral reasons at the time they may have been married or possibly single never to have met anyone , just to hide the fact. Gays did't just start appearing out of no-where. Your buddy or someone in your platoon, could very well have been gay and you would never have known it. I guess they don't desereve the same considerations. Im not gay but hey, I just turn my head if I see 2 guys going for tongue action.
As much as you find it an affront to your service to the US , there was and always has been gays in the service.

Pie

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:18 pm

UOD wrote:BTW....acceptance of homosexuals will only endorse their natural evolution which is extinction. Homos don't make babies. So if you just accept them and NOT force them back in the closet, they will become less and less of a voice because they simply CAN'T MULTIPLY!!!!!!

Homosexuality will never be wiped out....but it will be lessend to a great degree if you just accept it. Pretty soon, homosexuals will be as rare as seeing a bald eagle.

But in the meantime, homos are very much a part of our society and they are Americans. We should afford them every right and freedom which we enjoy. They are humans...they are people, they could be family or friends or our doctors or our kids.

Homosexuals can't multiply, but it has been theorized that homosexuality could possibly be a mental problem, some kind of mental brain disorder that makes a persons sexual orientation change like that. If that is the case then Homosexuals will continue on.

It'd be great if someday a cure could be made if it turns out that it really is a brain disorder.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:19 pm

UOD wrote:Do I believe?

Does a bear sh1t in the woods?????

Media is business.....and fear sells.

BTW....acceptance of homosexuals will only endorse their natural evolution which is extinction. Homos don't make babies. So if you just accept them and NOT force them back in the closet, they will become less and less of a voice because they simply CAN'T MULTIPLY!!!!!!

Homosexuality will never be wiped out....but it will be lessend to a great degree if you just accept it. Pretty soon, homosexuals will be as rare as seeing a bald eagle.

But in the meantime, homos are very much a part of our society and they are Americans. We should afford them every right and freedom which we enjoy. They are humans...they are people, they could be family or friends or our doctors or our kids.

Pretty rational UOD. We don't see eye to eye on all, but I'm not a stubbon mule without compassion and I am not a hater of anybody. I feel threatened at times and am protective of my family. I am becoming more of a minority and already suffer persecution for my beliefs. I know it's just the beginning and eventually I'll suffer for my faith, but my reward is not here anyway.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:21 pm

bigmo66 wrote:Pretty rational UOD. We don't see eye to eye on all, but I'm not a stubbon mule without compassion and I am not a hater of anybody. I feel threatened at times and am protective of my family. I am becoming more of a minority and already suffer persecution for my beliefs. I know it's just the beginning and eventually I'll suffer for my faith, but my reward is not here anyway.

the bible says Christians will be persecuted more and more

it's happening man

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:23 pm

Brent wrote:Homosexuals can't multiply, but it has been theorized that homosexuality could possibly be a mental problem, some kind of mental brain disease that makes a persons sexual orientation change like that. If that is the case then Homosexuals will continue on.

It'd be great if someday a cure could be made if it turns out that it really is a brain disease.

I agree...homosexuality is an abnormal occurrence of the NATURAL world. Just like Down syndrome is....but we don't outlaw retards from getting married now do we?

BTW...where have you been when we have discussed the genetics behind homosexuality? There are "gay" genes ya know.....but the gay gene only predisposes the person....it's not the final catalyst....environment is.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:24 pm

thepieman wrote:Mo it could very well be that you may have served with, have had your life saved or possibly a fellow servicemans life saved by one of these people that you call perverse. Due to moral reasons at the time they may have been married or possibly single never to have met anyone , just to hide the fact. Gays did't just start appearing out of no-where. Your buddy or someone in your platoon, could very well have been gay and you would never have known it. I guess they don't desereve the same considerations. Im not gay but hey, I just turn my head if I see 2 guys going for tongue action.
As much as you find it an affront to your service to the US , there was and always has been gays in the service.

Pie

I've been witness to Homosexual men and women while in the Marines and I won't deny that for 1 second. My beef is not with them as a person. I only want traditional marriage definition unchanged. That's it! There is no "reading into it" If gays want to promise to love each other faithfully for the rest of their life, then great, but it isn't a traditional marriage no matter how bad they want it to be. It's not complicated to me?

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:27 pm

bigmo66 wrote:Pretty rational UOD. We don't see eye to eye on all, but I'm not a stubbon mule without compassion and I am not a hater of anybody. I feel threatened at times and am protective of my family. I am becoming more of a minority and already suffer persecution for my beliefs. I know it's just the beginning and eventually I'll suffer for my faith, but my reward is not here anyway.

Becoming more of a minority?????

I think you need to look at the stats on faith. Religion is growing...not downsizing....unless of course some Enron execs DID make it to heaven after all lol.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:29 pm

bigmo66 wrote:I've been witness to Homosexual men and women while in the Marines and I won't deny that for 1 second. My beef is not with them as a person. I only want traditional marriage definition unchanged. That's it! There is no "reading into it" If gays want to promise to love each other faithfully for the rest of their life, then great, but it isn't a traditional marriage no matter how bad they want it to be. It's not complicated to me?

No Constitution that I have read defines marriage. Marriage is a definition set by the church. Let it stay there where it belongs.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:29 pm

UOD wrote:BTW...where have you been when we have discussed the genetics behind homosexuality? There are "gay" genes ya know.....but the gay gene only predisposes the person....it's not the final catalyst....environment is.

I can buy the "gay tendencies or femine gene", but the homosexuality that I see as the bigger problem is the "it's cool" trend. My own daughter came home from school and told my wife and I that some girl said she was gay now. She thought it was "hip". Tell me she wasn't impacted by media, TV, music and such. Seems like every new show has a Homo in it now. Why the increase in exposure? You can't tell me they all just decided to come out of their exquisitely decorated closets at once. No way, there are more of them and they are coming to get me

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:31 pm

bigmo66 wrote:I can buy the "gay tendencies or femine gene", but the homosexuality that I see as the bigger problem is the "it's cool" trend. My own daughter came home from school and told my wife and I that some girl said she was gay now. She thought it was "hip". Tell me she wasn't impacted by media, TV, music and such. Seems like every new show has a Homo in it now. Why the increase in exposure? You can't tell me they all just decided to come out of their exquisitely decorated closets at once. No way, there are more of them and they are coming to get me

exactly

this Agenda that being gay is 'cool', and 'hip' is sickening IMO

its being pushed in all aspects of the media

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:32 pm

UOD wrote:Becoming more of a minority?????

I think you need to look at the stats on faith. Religion is growing...not downsizing....unless of course some Enron execs DID make it to heaven after all lol.

It may well be growing, but as we know, numbers don't mean squat and certainly won't stop hate and persecution.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:33 pm

UOD wrote:Becoming more of a minority?????

I think you need to look at the stats on faith. Religion is growing...not downsizing....unless of course some Enron execs DID make it to heaven after all lol.

maybe its growing

but so is the liberal athiast world

The_Lurker · Post by **The_Lurker** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:35 pm

Brent wrote:Homosexuals can't multiply, but it has been theorized that homosexuality could possibly be a mental problem, some kind of mental brain disorder that makes a persons sexual orientation change like that. If that is the case then Homosexuals will continue on.

It'd be great if someday a cure could be made if it turns out that it really is a brain disorder.

whether it's a genetic mental defect, or a general genetic trait, with the advent of the results of human genome project, and what it portends, what parent would want their child to have these genes if they can be identified?

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:36 pm

bigmo66 wrote:It may well be growing, but as we know, numbers don't mean squat and certainly won't stop hate and persecution.

you hit the nail on the head there BigMo, the growing numbers of openly gay people will not stop the hate and persecution.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:37 pm

bigmo66 wrote:I can buy the "gay tendencies or femine gene", but the homosexuality that I see as the bigger problem is the "it's cool" trend. My own daughter came home from school and told my wife and I that some girl said she was gay now. She thought it was "hip". Tell me she wasn't impacted by media, TV, music and such. Seems like every new show has a Homo in it now. Why the increase in exposure? You can't tell me they all just decided to come out of their exquisitely decorated closets at once. No way, there are more of them and they are coming to get me

All trends die...this one will as well.

Being or acting gay just to be trendy is lame. But again, I can't and will not legislate against it. I can personally speak out against it as I am now....but I do not want it to become a function of government.

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:37 pm

The_Lurker wrote:whether it's a genetic mental defect, or a general genetic trait, with the advent of the results of human genome project, and what it portends, what parent would want their child to have these genes if they can be identified?

well why stop there then? Let's control all aspects of our childrens personalities and traits then. But wait, aren;t Christians against genetic experimentation?

The_Lurker · Post by **The_Lurker** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:37 pm

Brent wrote:maybe its growing

but so is the liberal athiast world

and secular humanist!

The_Lurker · Post by **The_Lurker** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:40 pm

[quote="Blisster"]well why stop there then? Let's control all aspects of our childrens personalities and traits then. But wait, aren]

some do, and some don't.

but we are heading for Gattica. thus, the slippery slope argument. stop it now?

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:40 pm

Blisster wrote:you hit the nail on the head there BigMo, the growing numbers of openly gay people will not stop the hate and persecution.

Hey! wrong nail, but I'm too tired to go on. You guys save the world, right the wrong, feed the hungry, save the whales, drink organic milk and so on, I'm going to bed!
'Night

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:42 pm

The_Lurker wrote:whether it's a genetic mental defect, or a general genetic trait, with the advent of the results of human genome project, and what it portends, what parent would want their child to have these genes if they can be identified?

Playing God?

Reminds me of Gattaca....

Isn't the real question...what parent would want their gay child? If the gene can be indentified while in the womb....how many Christians will support abortion?

The_Lurker · Post by **The_Lurker** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:43 pm

bigmo66 wrote:Hey! wrong nail, but I'm too tired to go on. You guys save the world, right the wrong, feed the hungry, save the whales, drink organic milk and so on, I'm going to bed!
'Night

i support the clubbing of Gay Baby Whales!