The universe

saved · Post by **saved** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:38 am

How do you believe that the universe came about?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:40 am

saved wrote:How do you believe that the universe came about?

deep question... I cant even begin to answer that. Thanks for the thought provoking Q though. +1

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:47 am

So many endless possibilities.

But I would guess that space was formed by some anomalie and from there stars and planets formed and die as we know now.

Maybe space itself is growing, maybe it wasnt so vast at first.

Demantik · Post by **Demantik** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:40 am

seeing as the steps of life exist in comets, it wouldn't be a long shot to say a comet hit the earth many years ago.

I believe there is a god or a 'higher power' but not to the extend that Christians beleive today, sorry if i offended anyone.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:05 am

Dont know dont care I got better things to think about

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:06 am

Demantik wrote:seeing as the steps of life exist in comets, it wouldn't be a long shot to say a comet hit the earth many years ago.

I believe there is a god or a 'higher power' but not to the extend that Christians beleive today, sorry if i offended anyone.

Why would you apologize for expressing your opinion? Don't worry as long as you respect other opinions IMO dont need to apologize.

tao_jones · Post by **tao_jones** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:07 am

I think it was started by higher power and then is constantly evolving.

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:12 am

Ghosthunter wrote:Why would you apologize for expressing your opinion? Don't worry as long as you respect other opinions IMO dont need to apologize.

History has shown that some people get upset when someone expresses a personal opinion that differs from theirs. Demantik is probably apologizing in advance of criticism that might be thrown his way.

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:17 am

Created in 6 days, God rested on the 7th.

Theistic evolution.

golfnintendoboy · Post by **golfnintendoboy** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:24 pm

i honestly don't know.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:09 pm

saved wrote:How do you believe that the universe came about?

The option I believe in isn't up there.

We know from the Bible that a day in God's eyes is not a Day in humans eyes.

So it wasn't literally six human days.

It could have been six thousand, 10 thousand, 1 million years, whatever.

But it was God that made it, he was the "Big Bang" so to speak.

Then after he created it I believe the world evolved on its own, he started it, and then let it become its own thing.

As for Humans, I believe in creation, he created us, Adam and Eve etc...

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:17 pm

Created by God over millions of years

saved · Post by **saved** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:36 pm

Brent wrote:The option I believe in isn't up there.

We know from the Bible that a day in God's eyes is not a Day in humans eyes.

So it wasn't literally six human days.

It could have been six thousand, 10 thousand, 1 million years, whatever.

But it was God that made it, he was the "Big Bang" so to speak.

Then after he created it I believe the world evolved on its own, he started it, and then let it become its own thing.

As for Humans, I believe in creation, he created us, Adam and Eve etc...

Brent,
the bible does not teach what you have said. It does say in Peter that a thousand years is as a day to the Lord. However even if one took that literal as for the creation you could not get millions of years. Only an extra 6 thousand years, one thousand for each creation day mentioned.
Also in the account it is clear that the Lord meant literal days since it says the evening and the morning was the first day or second day and so on. Remember they did not have timex watches when the account was given and they determind time by the daylight hours and the night time hours, so scriptuure was give in terms that anyone could undertand. Finally in the account if you read it carefully you will see that the plants were created one day before the sun. They could not have survied without the sunlight for many days much less years. And yes one more thing the Hebrew word translated day can ONLY mean day as we under stand days UNLESS there is a modifyer with it to show it means long periods of time.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:38 pm

Evolution.

saved · Post by **saved** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:44 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:So many endless possibilities.

But I would guess that space was formed by some anomalie and from there stars and planets formed and die as we know now.

Maybe space itself is growing, maybe it wasnt so vast at first.

By that I assume you are speaking of total evolution outside of any intervention from a Creator. If that be the case and it is a theory that some people hold then what you believe is that everything came from nothing

or everything has always been and evolved on its own accord into what we have today.

I have heard some say that while it is remote, it is possible and then give the odds in such large numbers that no average person can even began to understand the distinct possibility of evolution happening. However if I may I will now give a more accurate ratio of possibility for evolution.

The possibility of evolution taking place without a Creator is exactly the same as the possibility of a hurricane blowing through a junk yard and assembling a 747.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:16 am

saved wrote: The possibility of evolution taking place without a Creator is exactly the same as the possibility of a hurricane blowing through a junk yard and assembling a 747.

In your opinion.........and thats all it is ...an opinion...unless of course you have proof?

vinnie · Post by **vinnie** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:32 am

Needs another option - "It started and then god did his thing".

I'm comfortable with that.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:33 am

John wrote:So it is possible.

vinnie · Post by **vinnie** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:56 am

saved wrote:The possibility of evolution taking place without a Creator is exactly the same as the possibility of a hurricane blowing through a junk yard and assembling a 747.

So... when I hear a newsflash like this:

SYDNEY, Australia
Hurricane Macgyver heading towards the Australian coast. Residents are advised to lock away all swiss army knives,

I should find a junkyard and pay close attention?

RicRogue · Post by **RicRogue** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:58 am

Burke wrote:Created in 6 days, God rested on the 7th.

Theistic evolution.

Amen

Rivas · Post by **Rivas** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:09 pm

Paft wrote:Evolution.

stevebakh · Post by **stevebakh** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:09 pm

It is a totally evolutionary thing without any God

If you take the logical path of believing in a creator, then you have to carry that logic onwards and ask, "who created the creator?" It doesn't work if you believe we had to have been created by a superiour force or God due in part to our physical and mental complexity, but then think that God, who I presume in your eyes is far more complex and superiour that us, has no creator. That in itself, defies the very logic you use to justify the creator in the first place.

emilyb · Post by **emilyb** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:16 pm

Burke wrote:Created in 6 days, God rested on the 7th.

Theistic evolution.

Ditto

A_COMMUNIST · Post by **A_COMMUNIST** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:30 pm

the force is an energy field that surrounds all living things. It binds us and keeps us together. Life creates. makes it grow.

over there, the ship. that rock, the tree.

judge me by my size do you?

for my ally is the force. and a powerful ally it is.

where did you find the force?

in the ally.

for a 1000 generations (Dog Years) the jedi knights were the hall monitors of the galaxy.
that was before the dark time. before the democratic party went tax and spend liberal.

saved · Post by **saved** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:43 pm

Rainbow wrote:In your opinion.........and thats all it is ...an opinion...unless of course you have proof?

No an opinion is something that has supposition without actual evidence. This is fact. There is no possibility for a hurricane to assemble a 747 and there is no possibility for everything to come from nothing on its own.

stevebakh · Post by **stevebakh** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:57 pm

saved wrote:No an opinion is something that has supposition without actual evidence. This is fact. There is no possibility for a hurricane to assemble a 747 and there is no possibility for everything to come from nothing on its own.

Obviously, if your proof was as solid as you believe it to be, you wouldn't need to try and convince anyone, now would you?

SRF01 · Post by **SRF01** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:58 am

It is "technically" possible for 2 solid objects to pass through one another, given that the molicules were aligned perfectly.
So I would think that it is "technically" possible for a hurrican to assemble a 747.

stevebakh · Post by **stevebakh** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:26 am

SRF01 wrote:It is "technically" possible for 2 solid objects to pass through one another, given that the molicules were aligned perfectly.
So I would think that it is "technically" possible for a hurrican to assemble a 747.

saved · Post by **saved** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 7:53 am

SRF01 wrote:It is "technically" possible for 2 solid objects to pass through one another, given that the molicules were aligned perfectly.
So I would think that it is "technically" possible for a hurrican to assemble a 747.

No it is not possible for two solid objects to pass through each other. Not in any situation. That is science fiction.

saved · Post by **saved** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 7:53 am

stevebakh wrote:Obviously, if your proof was as solid as you believe it to be, you wouldn't need to try and convince anyone, now would you?

Yes there are many who are blind.

stevebakh · Post by **stevebakh** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 7:58 am

saved wrote:No it is not possible for two solid objects to pass through each other. Not in any situation. That is science fiction.

Actually, you are wrong. It is technically possible. When you look at the molecular level, we're made more of space than we are of matter. There are gabs between each atom and the space around each one by which electrons orbit the nucleus. In fact, I believe that neutrinos can pass straight through solid matter, even passing straight through our planet. This is basic chemistry.

It's also funny, whilst you believe non-believers are blind, non-believers believe that you are blind. So really - whilst you have as much faith in your belief, someone else doesn't. I think that you're as blind as you probably believe me to be. So who's right? It's impossible to decide such a thing. You can only justify your belief in your own mind.

saved · Post by **saved** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:10 am

stevebakh wrote:Actually, you are wrong. It is technically possible. When you look at the molecular level, we're made more of space than we are of matter. There are gabs between each atom and the space around each one by which electrons orbit the nucleus. In fact, I believe that neutrinos can pass straight through solid matter, even passing straight through our planet. This is basic chemistry.

It's also funny, whilst you believe non-believers are blind, non-believers believe that you are blind. So really - whilst you have as much faith in your belief, someone else doesn't. I think that you're as blind as you probably believe me to be. So who's right? It's impossible to decide such a thing. You can only justify your belief in your own mind.

The proof is in the fact that it is impossible. Stating that something is does not make it so. There is absolutely no scientific proof to back up your claim. Like those who claim that everything came from nothing on its own which is ridicules since "nothingness" does not have "its own," since it does not exist the idea that a solid can pass through another solid is false. It has to be first reduced to something other then a solid to accomplish the act.

stevebakh · Post by **stevebakh** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:13 am

Uggh - and you think I'm blind? Did you read anything I just said?! Neutrinos pass through the earth RIGHT NOW! Yes..

Are you aware of how things are assembled, or do you choose not to believe in atoms and molecules too? Forget this argument... let's discuss this from your point of view. You're taking the logical standpoint that since we exist, we must have been created. You also believe we were created by a superiour being. You probably look at the complexity of things like the eyeball, the human brain, the world and use these to justify your beliefs that we're far too complex to have come about "by chance" and that we must have been "created".

Now let's STAY with that train of thought and apply it again, to your own beliefs. Who created your creator? It's a simple question. If you believe that your creator is "eternal" then why is it so far fetched to believe that the universe is eteranal in itself.

So please, using your own train of thought, explain where your creator came from. How was he created and so who created your creators creator?

MadDoctor · Post by **MadDoctor** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:43 am

saved wrote:There is absolutely no scientific proof to back up your claim.

There is absolutely no scientific proof of many things... to include the existence of God. Individual faith in the existence of God is the only thing that supports the existence of God. This poll is thus a philosophical debate that has no answer. Philosophical debates don’t require proof of claims.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:41 pm

saved wrote:Brent,
the bible does not teach what you have said. It does say in Peter that a thousand years is as a day to the Lord. However even if one took that literal as for the creation you could not get millions of years. Only an extra 6 thousand years, one thousand for each creation day mentioned.

I'm looking at this and see someting you might have missed...."as" isn't an absolute term. As is clear on these fourms...people tend to talk in generalisms.

Remember they did not have timex watches when the account was given and they determind time by the daylight hours and the night time hours, so scriptuure was give in terms that anyone could undertand.

Why would you need a watch to undersand a concept of time?

Finally in the account if you read it carefully you will see that the plants were created one day before the sun. They could not have survied without the sunlight for many days much less years.

Maybe it was an early blunder and the writer ment planets....

Not that it matters.....I find that the original account is amazing in how it fits with what science now speculates on the beginning of the Universe, and the evolution of this planet.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 1:00 pm

saved wrote:Brent,
the bible does not teach what you have said. It does say in Peter that a thousand years is as a day to the Lord. However even if one took that literal as for the creation you could not get millions of years. Only an extra 6 thousand years, one thousand for each creation day mentioned.

and he rested on teh 7th, so thats an extra 7,000 years

saved · Post by **saved** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:38 pm

stevebakh wrote:Now let's STAY with that train of thought and apply it again, to your own beliefs. Who created your creator? It's a simple question. If you believe that your creator is "eternal" then why is it so far fetched to believe that the universe is eteranal in itself.

So please, using your own train of thought, explain where your creator came from. How was he created and so who created your creators creator?

The Creator has always been. he is self existing and has no beginning. The universe cannot be eternal since any such idea would violate the second law of thermal dynamics. And yes it is far fetched to believe thta everything came from nothing and then evolved.

saved · Post by **saved** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:41 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:and he rested on teh 7th, so thats an extra 7,000 years

Actuallt that would be incorrect. The creation time line is only a six day period and if one wanted to claim that the days are years there was only six mentioned in the creation. The 7th was not a creation day. Even if one were to hold the view that there was 6 thousand years of creation instead of a literal 6 day creation it would mean nothing in the scheme of things when debating the timeline claimed by some as billions of years. However the text is clear in that it means literal days.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:46 pm

well the earth has been around for what billions of years? and we know dinosuars were here way before man was...so something does not add up in those 6 days or 6,000 years.

Just remember people use to believe the earth was flat/

i believe in science anyday over a book that was written 2,000 years ago when they did not have science like we do with all our modern technology.

Rivas · Post by **Rivas** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:51 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:well the earth has been around for what billions of years? and we know dinosuars were here way before man was...so something does not add up in those 6 days or 6,000 years.

Just remember people use to believe the earth was flat/

i believe in science anyday over a book that was written 2,000 years ago when they did not have science like we do with all our modern technology.

exactly

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How did the universe come about?

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