Presidential Debate - Sept 30th

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Ghosthunter
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Post by Ghosthunter »

Even Powell agress with me:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... owell_iraq
ATLANTA - Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) said Friday he regrets the Bush administration claimed that Iraq (news - web sites) had stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in its argument for war, but he believes the world is better off without Saddam Hussein (news - web sites).
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Post by Blisster »

OMG they just hate freedom
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Post by Blisster »

Kerry: WTFBBQ!!11
Bush : OMG taht is not what I said!!!11
Kerry: Pwnd!!!
Bush: ...
Edward Abbey wrote:A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
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Post by Joint Chiefs of Staff »

You guys are all f'ing nuts. :rotfl:
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Post by Ghosthunter »

Joint Chiefs of Staff wrote:You guys are all f'ing nuts. :rotfl:
Yeah...that is what my wife tells me..LOL
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Post by koldchillah »

Ghosthunter wrote:NYC for one even though it hasnt happened, people are afraid because of 3,000 people dieing on 9/11 and having the worst terrorist attack on America soil.

How about Israel?
Oh, so its true, people in NYC ARE living with more fear since 9/11? Thats strange because with all the changes that went into effect after 9/11, it would seem to me that it would be harder for a terrorist to succeed at such an attack; therefore giving the people LESS to fear.

Besides, what good is the freedom to even Israel, if it can't be exercised without fear? Would you want to live in Israel? If its so "free", then why wouldn't you?

Would you be happy living in fear just because some leader on the other side of the world said you were free?

The Iraqi people do not know how to identify with the freedoms we live with. To them, everything is more chaotic and more stressful.. I'm sure that many of Iraq's citizens would concur that "free" is about the worse word anybody could use to describe how they feel. Just imagine the adrenaline that was going through your veins during the 9/11 attacks. Now imagine having that same adrenaline pumping as you hear bombs go off EVERY SINGLE day in your city. It would begin to wear down even the most headstrong citizens over time. President Bush's constant usage of the words "freedom" in the same sentence as "Iraq" is disgusting. It sends a very disconcerting message to the people living there.

I'll take a walk down the streets of Manhattan over a walk through downtown Baghdad anyday. There is no comparison to the kind of "sustained" fear the Iraqi's are enduring.

Now we live in a time where our bed has been made by our administration and its time for us to sleep in it. I just hope for "freedom's sake" that John Kerry gets in there and washes those nasty ass sheets.
"Nobody's invincible, no plan is foolproof, We all must meet our moment of truth." - Guru
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Post by Roody »

koldchillah wrote: Now we live in a time where our bed has been made by our administration and its time for us to sleep in it. I just hope for "freedom's sake" that John Kerry gets in there and washes those nasty ass sheets.
Rep points coming for that one liner. :D
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Post by Roody »

nooooo it says I have to spread more rep around. :(
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Post by koldchillah »

Roody wrote:nooooo it says I have to spread more rep around. :(
Don't worry man.. I'm not concerned about my rep. Just a little fired up since last night's debate, er.. conference.. thats all. :)
"Nobody's invincible, no plan is foolproof, We all must meet our moment of truth." - Guru
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Post by ScottE »

Every once and a while you need to kick ass and take names just because you can.
Respect it.
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Post by Roody »

koldchillah wrote:Don't worry man.. I'm not concerned about my rep. Just a little fired up since last night's debate, er.. conference.. thats all. :)
Go get 'em :D
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Post by ScottE »

Roody wrote:Go get 'em :D

Ok
Respect it.
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Post by koldchillah »

Roody wrote:Go get 'em :D
Only thing I'll be goin' to get is beer after work, cuz it be FRIIIDAY!! and good Friday at that.. and no I'm not talking about the Good Friday before Easter. ;) :D
"Nobody's invincible, no plan is foolproof, We all must meet our moment of truth." - Guru
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Post by Ghosthunter »

[quote="koldchillah"]Oh, so its true, people in NYC ARE living with more fear since 9/11? Thats strange because with all the changes that went into effect after 9/11, it would seem to me that it would be harder for a terrorist to succeed at such an attack]


it may not be exactly the same thing..but 3,000 people died that day in NYC..and it is called PTSD...

since you were not here that day and were probably watching it from TV, you obviously have no idea. I was there outside and saw the second plane crash into the WTC and saw the towers crumble right before my eyes.

Do you know everytime I hear a plane in NYC I look up to see if it is going to crash into a building?


Everytime I see a muslim with a backpack in the subway i wonder if it is a bomb.
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Post by Blisster »

good thing you feel so much safer with Bush at the helm.
Edward Abbey wrote:A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
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Post by Roody »

Ghosthunter wrote:it may not be exactly the same thing..but 3,000 people died that day in NYC..and it is called PTSD...

since you were not here that day and were probably watching it from TV, you obviously have no idea. I was there outside and saw the second plane crash into the WTC and saw the towers crumble right before my eyes.

Do you know everytime I hear a plane in NYC I look up to see if it is going to crash into a building?


Everytime I see a muslim with a backpack in the subway i wonder if it is a bomb.

Now imagine that feeling everyday of your life for over a year and you will understand exactly what Koldchillah speaks of.
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Post by Ghosthunter »

Blisster wrote:good thing you feel so much safer with Bush at the helm.

I do...no more attacks has happened since 9-11 and we have prevented a lot more.

If Kerry gets into office things will get relaxed again
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Post by Ghosthunter »

Roody wrote:Now imagine that feeling everyday of your life for over a year and you will understand exactly what Koldchillah speaks of.

if i had a choice i rather be living in baghdad the way it is now then under saddam cruel and in humane regime
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Post by Mark »

Blisster wrote:good thing you feel so much safer with Bush at the helm.

and you don't ?
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Post by Blisster »

Mark wrote:and you don't ?
I wasn't the one saying anything about how I got scared everytime I heard a plane and how i was scared of muslim people on the subway.
Ghosthunter wrote:
Do you know everytime I hear a plane in NYC I look up to see if it is going to crash into a building?
Everytime I see a muslim with a backpack in the subway i wonder if it is a bomb.

so what, that's probably 150-200 planes a day that fly in,out and over NYC? and i can't imagine how many 'muslims with backpacks' one must typically see on a NYC train, but I'm sure its alot. sounds like alot of fear to me.
Mark wrote:and you don't ?

no, as a matter of fact, I don't. I fear and distrust our government now more than ever before.
Edward Abbey wrote:A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
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Post by CiscoKid »

Ghosthunter wrote:it was never closed but under tight security and might have been delayed trains...but that it


So it ok for Kerry to be misinformed but not Bush about being misinformed about Iraq? If it not Kerry fault then him having bad intel wasnt Bush neither.
That's like comparing Wood to steal.

Kerry's misinformation could be compared to being told to turn left when he should turn right.

Bush's "misinformation" has lead to 1,000+ dead...
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Post by Roody »

Ghosthunter wrote:if i had a choice i rather be living in baghdad the way it is now then under saddam cruel and in humane regime
That's not the comparison of which Koldchillah made man. You said NYC was a comparable comparison and it is and was not.
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Post by koldchillah »

Ghosthunter wrote:
since you were not here that day and were probably watching it from TV, you obviously have no idea. I was there outside and saw the second plane crash into the WTC and saw the towers crumble right before my eyes.

Do you know everytime I hear a plane in NYC I look up to see if it is going to crash into a building?


Everytime I see a muslim with a backpack in the subway i wonder if it is a bomb.
You're absolutely right. I was not there. Nor did I claim to have been there or know exactly what it was like to have witnessed it first hand. The only assumption I made was that you were pumped full of adrenaline during the attacks. If you weren't pumped full of adrenaline, then I apologize, for it was wrong of me to assume in the first place.

If you feel like you and all the citizens of NYC are still suffering from PTSD, then just imagine if the terror had not ended yet and you could not even BEGIN the stage of PTSD.. PTSD would be a godsend of a disorder upon the Iraqi people.. I'm sure they can't wait to get to the "post" part of their daily trauma.

Twist that one around however you'd like. It's the weekend, I'm not going to waste my time trying to break it down any simpler for you.

Have a good weekend and I wish you the best in getting through your PTSD. and no, I'm not being sarcastic.. PTSD is a serious thing and I'd hate for anyone to have to go through it. Good luck..
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Post by sito »

How many people (man, women and child) have died in this war since it began? I think it's in excess of 15,000 (we won't know for a while cause politics will squash that #.). with all this concern about the Iraqis freedom, do you think they feel any safer? Most of you opposed to the fact don't or never did care. I'm not pro war or pro American or pro Canadian, I'm pro human being. Your current leaders aren't and that drives me nuts. Forget abortion, your killing plenty outside the womb, including your own.

As I said before....if a foreign gov OCCUPIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my land for all the RIGHT reasons, I'd still have a pretty untrusting view of them. There are thousands of people dropping dead in Africa as we speak, so where's your super force? Drilling for oil is my guess. You guys need change, much of the world depends on it.
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Post by thepieman »

Ok so what...It wasn't the trains that were closed....well Kerry forgot to mention..The Statue of Liberty was and has been closed since 9-11 and just recently opened about a month ago. Thats supposed to be the symbol of Freedom. It was the idea he was trying to convey to the president.

GH That must have been rough on you being right there in the sh** ...many people died that day as well as the days following , due to the high amount of stress. Im surrounded by Arabs here of all types, while Im not intimidated by them, I have 2 kids living here and I do worry about another attack.
To be honest with you...I thought it was going to be on New Years eve 2000 . I was telling my friends not to go and that something was going to happen. New York is and always will be a target.


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Post by jayyy »

The_Lurker wrote:now thats funny.


by todays standards they would be considered Neo-Conservatives.

i'd like to know where George and the others stood on abortion, gay marrige, and other social issues.

They wouldn't have been neo conservatives. They had a policy of isolationism.

And then again, by those day's standards, you yourself would be a radical, ultra leftist liberal. So what does that tell you about not weighing the standards of the day?
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Post by jayyy »

Bouncer wrote:My view:

Kerry won. Or rather, he avoided losing. He did two things he had to do. One, he made himself look more Presidential. People, as opposed to just voting against Bush could now see themselves voting FOR Kerry. That was important. More importantly though, he survived intact in Bush's strongest arena, Foreign policy. Now we go to the domestic policy debates, and that is going to give Kerry a chance to open some huge cans o' whoopass on Bush.

Overall I give it a win to Kerry for being on offense more, scoring more hits while taking fewer, and adjusting faster on his feet. Bush gets some points for consitency of message, but having just watched Star Wars over the weekend it reminded me of one of the guys flying down the trench on the Death Star. "Stay on target! Stay on Target!" *BOOM*. It actually backfired a little bit I think, because he came across as almost a bit muleheaded at times. "Certain, but wrong." as Kerry put it. (paraphrasing is mine).

Another thing that hurt Bush was the split screen we frequently saw. It made him look smaller than Kerry (he is) and that hurt him a bit. People want a strong/tall leader. Maybe it's a lizard brain alpha male thing. Whatever, the point is that Bush looked smaller in stature, and that didn't help. The reason for that wasn't media manipulation, but rather the camera people trying to keep the eyes of the candidates at the same level 3/4's of the way up the screen and head size relatively close. This meant tilting slightly down towards Bush and up at Kerry. It made Kerry look taller by comparison, and more authoritative because of that. It's a mental trick we play on ourselves. Bush WAS beter at speaking to the camera and the audience at home though, so it might be a wash in that department.

I noticed that it took both candidates a while to get used to (but Bush I think took far longer) the quiet of the audience. They're used to hearing cheers and crowd reaction and approval. Bush more so as his rally's are VERY heavily vetted for only the purest of the pure. The dead silence of the audience clearly threw both of them off their stride for a bit, but Kerry adjusted faster, probably due to his speaking on the Senate floor for the Congressional record. The politicians speak in what is almost a dead empty chamber at night as a way of getting what they wanted to say "in the record" so they can't be challenged on incomplete statements made during daytime sessions (because of time limitations). You may have seen them on C-Span doing this at odd hours. Anyways, I think the audience silence was something he was more comfortable with than Bush, who likes to gauge his speaking by public reaction.

I also think that Bush made a strategic error by not attacking Kerry on character. This creates a problem for Bush by not rising to the moderators chance to do so (bait really, but that's neither here nor there). Because he didn't take the bait, and because he made such a show of being gracious to Kerry he's hamstrung his own campaign attack dogs to some extent. He can't now go and blast Kerry (Or allow Cheney to do so for him) because now he's on the record as saying Kerry is an honorable man (or the rough equivalent of that). The point is, it'll make Cheney and anyone of the attack dogs from his campaign look well, hypocritical as all hell the very next time they start trying to chew on Kerry's character. They will be called on it. And I bet Rove is VERY unhappy the question was asked, and Bush gave a real quotable answer to it. It's going to make his job quite a bit harder as he specializes in that sort of strategy.

Finally, referring to terrorist organizations as "folks", while a Texan colloqualism did not help Bush. At all. It made him at once seem unaware of how large the issue is and dismissive of it at the same time. Since it IS the central theme of his campaign, it didn't help him. I'd be willing to bet real dollars you will never, ever, hear him refer to them that way again. If it comes up again they will be described as Gangs, or Groups, or something. But not folks. That was a faux pas you can probably expect to see on a t-shirt or commercial tomorrow.

So, all in all, neither candidate fumbled that much, neither scored any kind of a clear win, but Kerry came off better overall and most importantly.. critically really in my view.. looked like a President of the United States of America.

And THAT, was the win for him.

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:nod:

Whenever I see Bush interviewed on tv, his answers are always the same 3 or 4 tight little paragraphs pre-fed, that he repeats almost verbatim, regardless of what the question was. Its obvious they were worked out with his advisers.

But in a 90 minute debate...dude straight up ran out of material. Even Karl Rove can't feed him enough scripted one-liners to keep him looking intelligent for that long. Outside of his pre-fabricated "town hall" meetings and scripted appearances, he just couldnt keep up.


Iraq was Kerry's most sensitive issue. and bush's biggest asset. Reduced to those one-liners that the TV news resorts to in lieu of real coverage, Bush has looked more convincing thus far. Bush's lines were quick and easy to understand, Kerry's thoughts were more drawn out and didn't carry over in ten second bites. But in a real debate, you could see who was more on top of it. Bush just started to sound like a broken record player.

If people become more confident with kerry on Iraq, he's in good shape. he'll just cruise through the next two debates, where Bush doesnt have a leg to stand on, even with spin. This race isn't over yet.
Funny is when a fat lady walks around while someone plays the tuba. Once you've seen that, you'll never laugh at anything else. Except maybe a skeleton dancing around while someone plays the xylophone, which is almost exactly the opposite of a fat lady walking around while someone plays the tuba. Well, a skeleton is the opposite of a fat lady. But is a xylophone the opposite of a tuba? History will decide.
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Post by The_Lurker »

jayyy wrote:They wouldn't have been neo conservatives. They had a policy of isolationism.

And then again, by those day's standards, you yourself would be a radical, ultra leftist liberal. So what does that tell you about not weighing the standards of the day?

that the original poster using them in such a referance was making a mistake. ;)

and par for the course, you haven't a clue about me. :)
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Post by jayyy »

The_Lurker wrote:and par for the course, you haven't a clue about me. :)

I can live with that :)
Funny is when a fat lady walks around while someone plays the tuba. Once you've seen that, you'll never laugh at anything else. Except maybe a skeleton dancing around while someone plays the xylophone, which is almost exactly the opposite of a fat lady walking around while someone plays the tuba. Well, a skeleton is the opposite of a fat lady. But is a xylophone the opposite of a tuba? History will decide.
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