XBox is going bye-bye

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:49 am

http://news.com.com/Microsoft+scraps+on ... tml?tag=nl

The only thing MS is good at hardware wise is mice and kb's. They dropped ALL WiFi products last week. Now they cancel this title.

I'm afraid the countless predictions that the XBox will self destruct are coming true.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1094549,00.asp

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1595331,00.asp

Rivas · Post by **Rivas** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:21 pm

UOD wrote:http://news.com.com/Microsoft+scraps+on ... tml?tag=nl

The only thing MS is good at hardware wise is mice and kb's. They dropped ALL WiFi products last week. Now they cancel this title.

I'm afraid the countless predictions that the XBox will self destruct are coming true.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1094549,00.asp

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1595331,00.asp

i cant believe it

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:26 pm

while MS has more money then Sony...Sony has one thing it always has had, that is electronics and innovation and passion.

Brk · Post by **Brk** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:18 pm

Easy fix. Microsoft buys Nintendo.

AceFireball · Post by **AceFireball** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:31 pm

I wouldnt console game nemor if XBOX was no more

Mytflyguy · Post by **Mytflyguy** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:59 pm

I'm a Huge PS2 Fan .... Never really played much Xbox though ...

The New kid that is training under me said that rumor has it that the Xbox 2 is expected to release around December and supposedly will have 3x 64bit Processors built by IBM ( 1x Video , 1x sound 1x general calculation ) plus a Vid Card based on the ATI X800XT card ....

All for less than the price of the Ps2 ?? ( I seriously doubt ... maybe less than the price of the PS3 , which was rumored a while back to be basically 3 PS2's in parrellel ~ Early prototype )

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:37 pm

i hope they don't scrap halo 2

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:44 pm

dont forget to add what a wonderful botch up job they have done in pc gaming world with cancelling Mythica:

http://www.mythica.com/Default.htm?c00=1

developers put a lot of time and heart into it and was almost done to get pulled right out form under them..

and dont forget what Microsoft did to Asheron Call 1, and Asheron Call 2

mattkim · Post by **mattkim** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:52 pm

I used to be a big Xbox fan when Halo 1 came out. It was one of the greatest thing I ever played. I was starting to gain respect for console (as i was always a PC gamer before). But then nothing came out after Halo. Nothing that caught my interest anyways. But now I'm seeing some good things from the PS2. Who knows, maybe I'll invest my money on it. Its like $160 now huh?

m4a2t0t · Post by **m4a2t0t** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:05 pm

theres no way MS would scrap halo 2. I think there would be riots if that happened

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:25 pm

Sony owns the console department, cuz u can't out sell the playstation line.

Nintendo owns the handheld version, Gameboy rules.

Sony has squaresoft and others that only make games for the playstation now, and there is almost nothing that can hurt the gameboy market. Microsoft has no room in that picture.

Hell squaresoft is so loved, there could be a squaresoft console with only their games and people would buy it, i would!

as long as Squaresoft and Rareware keep up on their titles MS is out the door.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:26 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:dont forget to add what a wonderful botch up job they have done in pc gaming world with cancelling Mythica:

http://www.mythica.com/Default.htm?c00=1

developers put a lot of time and heart into it and was almost done to get pulled right out form under them..

and dont forget what Microsoft did to Asheron Call 1, and Asheron Call 2

ya, but DS2 will still come out

lol

deleted_acct · Post by **deleted_acct** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:31 pm

Screw consoles im back into pc gaming and overclocking w000ttt!!!!

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:08 pm

I don't think Microsoft is anywhere near scrapping the Xbox, that was just one game, and they were scrapping it due to the developer being way behind schedule. IIRC Xbox outsold the PS2 by a landslide this last holiday season and the numbers are looking good right now (Jim will chime in shortly to either confirm or deny this) and Halo 2 will pretty much reinvent the Xbox come xmas time.
any Mytfly, as far as i know, the next Xbox isn't due for release untill christmans 2005 at the VERY earliest, probably later (although there are currently developement kits).

as for the wireless hardware, there are too many other notable quality products on the market, i think microsoft was going for the Wal-Mart crowd with that line.

The Xbox isn't going anywhere for awhile.

Rivas · Post by **Rivas** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:26 pm

anyway ...modded xbox is kick ass

AceFireball · Post by **AceFireball** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:48 pm

Chillinhh wrote:Screw consoles im back into pc gaming and overclocking w000ttt!!!!

Immortal · Post by **Immortal** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:52 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Sony has squaresoft and others that only make games for the playstation now

as long as Squaresoft and Rareware keep up on their titles MS is out the door.

http://www.geocities.com/skaterdudegcn/editorial6.html
Squaresoft now also makes games for nintendo. Not just ps exclusive.

http://sports.ngenres.com/editorials/54.html
Microsoft owns rareware.

deleted_acct · Post by **deleted_acct** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:38 pm

AceFireball wrote:

lol
Consoles are pretty neat but

ive modded them, painted them, lighted them up, added larger harddrives, been there done that, now wuts there to do? I mean oc'in and cranking up the settings is half the fun in gaming thats why pc owns!

Dont even

AceFireball · Post by **AceFireball** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:33 pm

Chillinhh wrote:
lol
Consoles are pretty neat but ive modded them, painted them, lighted them up, added larger harddrives, been there done that, now wuts there to do? I mean oc'in and cranking up the settings is half the fun in gaming thats why pc owns!
Dont even

never said i didnt agree

its called a thread jack

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 11:03 pm

Okay, here's the situation as I see it:

UOD: True Fantasy Live Online was to be Microsoft's big entry into the Japanese market. The XBOX has done extremely poor in that country, with Ninja Gaiden (a game that actually broke the top 10 list for a week, the first to even come close to doing so) pretty much being the sole exception. Let's face it, an XBOX is more likely to be the doorstop at a Japanese gaming store at this point in time than something that's seriously competing with Sony or Nintendo. The game was being developed by a Japanese company with a good track record (Level 5 created Dark Cloud and the excellent Dark Cloud 2, and are working on the MUCH anticipated Dragon Warrior VIII), and would be Microsoft's big push for XBOX Live in the country. It all sounded like such a good plan, until you fast forward to the present day.

The market is flooded with MMORPGs, with longtime favorites like Everquest still standing strong against Final Fantasy XI, Galaxies, Lineage II, City of Heroes, etc (notice SOE and NCSoft being the two main players in this game). Gamers looking for an MMORPG have plenty of options to choose from, so unless a title has something that can separate it from the rest, it's destined to fail (at least relatively speaking). Final Fantasy XI has done quite well on the PS2, especially when compared to the disaster that was Everquest Online Adventures, but Microsoft's system is still seen as a source for action or sports games, not RPGs (despite having a handful of AAA titles). Combine that with the poor response to "paid content" on XBOX Live (ie, any fees above and beyond XBL, such as PSO's "Hunter's License"), and you aren't painting the best of pictures. Then, factor in the failure of XBL in Japan, which has shown very little interest in the service, unlike the US or Korea. Then let's pile on some mediocre previews that are a fairly stark contrast to the hype Microsoft is trying to generate, along with the fact that the developer probably has far more interest in their current projects (DQ8, which will probably be the biggest game in Japan for the year of its release, and DC3) than making an XBOX game, and this recipe doesn't seem so appetizing any longer.

In short, unless TFLO was a groundbreaking MMORPG that shattered the cookie-cutter mold that the rest have spawned from, it was doomed to fail in every possible way.

Microsoft is not pulling out of the console industry, and if anything, expect them to treat it with their "engulf and devour" attitude that they've become so (in)famous for.

Scrapping Halo 2? Uh...huuuuuhhhh......Microsoft will banish their newest Cash Cow to the Great Meadow In The Sky....riiiiight....

Yard: While Nintendo does virtually control the handheld market, expect some serious competition from Sony with the PSP next year. While most of Square-Enix's titles are on the PS2, they do not only develop for Sony (titles for the Game Cube and GBA have already been released, with more on the way).

Rare? Microsoft owns Rare now.

(And only now do I notice that Immy already pointed this out...

)

Along your lines of thought though, if Microsoft is smart, they'll make sure that those rumors about Rare-developed titles for the GBA is true if it wasn't already. Microsoft's support of Nintendo's handheld would be a nice (minor) blow to Sony's competing system, and while it certainly wouldn't change the tide, it would create a small wave or two.

Blisster: Nope. Sony still outsold them during the holiday season, in both hardware and software. I don't have exact figures in front of me, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Cube outsold the XBOX during this past holiday season, partly due to the (sweeeeet) Zelda bonus disc that came with it at the time. Microsoft did jump ahead of Sony's sales figures for a brief amount of time (during their most recent price cut), but it didn't take Sony long to regain that ground (partly due to a price cut of their own).

Halo 2's US release will probably be the closest we've come to the scope of a release like Dragon Quest in Japan (which got to the point were there is/was a law restricting when it could be released due to the number of children/adults who skipped work/school to buy and play it). I'm expecting many, many people will skip work or school on November 9th (this of course coming from Mr. Kettle). The holiday season is looking to be VERY crowded this year, with some HUGE titles being released, but I'm still expecting Halo 2 to take the crown this year by a decent margin (no small feat when going up against GT4, GTA:SA, MGS3, NFSU2, THUG2, PoP2, etc.) Halo 2's impact will reach far beyond the game though, as you can expect XBOX Live subscriptions and logins to shoot through the roof, and stay at a high level for quite some time.

XBOX 2? Nothing's official, but I wouldn't expect anything to materialize before sometime late 2005. Same goes for the rest of the crowd.

If I were any less tired, I'd actually try and make this post a little (more) coherent...but...nah.

Blisster wrote:The Xbox isn't going anywhere for awhile.

'Nuff said.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:50 am

Jim,

MS lost a billion on XBox. A console is a console is a console. Unless MS can pay developers to ONLY develop for them....I don't see a compelling reason why MS would stick with a piece of hardware that provides an equal gaming experience to that of the PS2. The top titles encompass ALL 3 consoles. Nintendo has a niche market....Sony has a niche market....what niche market does the XBox have? And add to the fact that the TV primetime demographic has been converted to online PC games.....I think the writing is on the wall.

iKwak · Post by **iKwak** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:39 am

So I guess XBox2 is not to be seen in the future.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:21 am

Jim, Square doesnt put out all the stuff for nintendo, do they?

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:32 am

UOD wrote:The only thing MS is good at hardware wise is mice and kb's. They dropped ALL WiFi products last week.

I'd put joysticks in that list too....their Sidewinder series were very good IMO.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:15 am

YeOldeStonecat wrote:I'd put joysticks in that list too....their Sidewinder series were very good IMO.

Yup....and didn't they drop that as well? Yup! So success means nothing.

I don't think people are reading between the lies here Cat.....MS dropped ALL Wifi products....that includes the XBox wireless networking adapter. So when they start dropping the hardware support for one of it's flagship hardware products...I see that as a sign of things to come.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:35 am

UOD wrote:Yup....and didn't they drop that as well?

I know I read they were going to. And a quick check here says Sept 2004 is it.
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/sidewinder/

Too bad, it's not like the Sidewinder did poorly in sales...they had a very successful run!

I thought their wireless gear was doing pretty well also, as I ran across it fairly often.

///shrugs///

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:07 pm

Microsoft and TSG do not turn a profit on, nor do they expect to turn a profit on the Xbox. It's the software produced by Microsoft Game Studios that makes them money. While Xbox didn't become the Sony Killer they were hoping it would, it did establish theem in the console market and brought alot of microsoft products to a lot of living rooms across the globe. Developement continues on the next-generation xbox (trust me, I know

).
Could it be scrapped, sure. But remember, a billion dollar loss to microsoft isn't gonna hurt them too much, and history tells us that Gates is willing to incur huge losses to gain a foothold in another market. Time will Tell.

*goes and fires up Full Spectrum Warrior on the Xbox*

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:24 pm

[quote="Blisster"]Microsoft and TSG do not turn a profit on, nor do they expect to turn a profit on the Xbox. It's the software produced by Microsoft Game Studios that makes them money. While Xbox didn't become the Sony Killer they were hoping it would, it did establish theem in the console market and brought alot of microsoft products to a lot of living rooms across the globe. Developement continues on the next-generation xbox (trust me, I know ]

don't get me wrong...I wish for the XBox to be successful. They just have a trend in dropping successful hardware.

I also have another gut feeling.....I think that MS is not far away from developing an XBox add-in card for the PC. With all the convergence products
emerging, and with the success of the WinXP Media center software....it's the right direction for MS to go in. PCI-Express could be the answer to just such a thing. The modding community has already been successful in doing this btw....just imagine the possibilities.

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:28 pm

now that would be cool, a card that let you play Xbox games on your PC. if they made it afforable, and bridged Xbox live to support PC users as well they'd make a killing off Halo 2 alone in sales and new Live subscriptions.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:43 pm

Blisster wrote:now that would be cool, a card that let you play Xbox games on your PC. if they made it afforable, and bridged Xbox live to support PC users as well they'd make a killing off Halo 2 alone in sales and new Live subscriptions.

Think of the cost savings to MS. No need for CPU, HDD, or vid and sound cards. It would basically be a DRM driven box to protect the content. All they really need is the network connectivity and vid card outputs to TV, eDTV, HDTV...like a converter box. The problem MS has is the proprietary nature of their systems. But I see this as a bonus for them....think of the community response if they could mod Halo2. User created maps....hell...maybe even entirely new games.

An XBox enabled Media Center PC.

lansens · Post by **lansens** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:50 pm

UOD wrote:An XBox enabled Media Center PC.

Now that would be something of interest.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:11 pm

Once you're at the point of converging XBox stuff into your PC.....step back a few feet, look at it, and ask "Why the heck did we do a full circle here?"

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:23 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:Once you're at the point of converging XBox stuff into your PC.....step back a few feet, look at it, and ask "Why the heck did we do a full circle here?"

How many components do you want to have cluttering up your living space?

A console, a PC, a DVD player, A PVR, a stereo system.....the list goes on and on. Put it all in one box. The form factor is already there to support it. Shuttle boxes are selling like wildfire.

A properly configured PC can do everything each of those stand alone products can do and do it better because they are tweakable.

Also...which has really come full circle? Think about it....the very first thing that came to the communities mind was how to BREAK the XBox....prove that it was a dumbed down PC. It is. It just lacks a KB and mouse.

IT's got to be more profitable to suck the console crowd into the PC world than it is to bring the PC world to the console.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:41 pm

UOD wrote:Jim,

MS lost a billion on XBox. A console is a console is a console. Unless MS can pay developers to ONLY develop for them....I don't see a compelling reason why MS would stick with a piece of hardware that provides an equal gaming experience to that of the PS2. The top titles encompass ALL 3 consoles. Nintendo has a niche market....Sony has a niche market....what niche market does the XBox have? And add to the fact that the TV primetime demographic has been converted to online PC games.....I think the writing is on the wall.

Sony has a niche market? Exactly what "niche" buys tens of millions of machines (at ranges of $150-$300) in a single country?

Equal gaming experience? Each console has its own way of doing things, each targeting a slightly different piece of the whole pie. Yes, they all play "games," but the way each of the Big 3 handles things is very different. If you want further proof, look at the GCN's (relative) failure in the US compared to the PS2, despite the fact that it's a more powerful machine at a lower cost.

Microsoft CAN (and will) take a billion dollar hit, especially when they look at the entire cash flow of the industry and see that there is mucho money to be made here. They notice the success of publishers like EA, and they want a piece of that action, and hitching onto a Japanese firm like Sony or Nintendo would not deliver that to them. Trust me, while they may pursue many different fields on a whim, they're in this for the long haul.

And perhaps you misread some of those articles regarding the drop in TV viewing among the 18-35 year old male crowd. Television is losing them to videogames, with online games being cited as a specific example due to the fact that you can easily track the number of people playing BFV or SOCOM at any given time. However, while the PC does have a large number of people playing online, don't discount the online crowd on the console scene as insignificant in comparison. While I take any numbers quoted by Sony or Microsoft with a grain of salt, the fact remains that a massive number of people are playing titles like SOCOM, Madden, or Crimson Skies online. And remember that at least in the case of the XBOX, just about everyone playing online has given Bill $50 just to be able to do so for a year...

And like I said, expect Halo 2 to shoot up the number of people playing their consoles online literally overnight.

UOD wrote:Also...which has really come full circle? Think about it....the very first thing that came to the communities mind was how to BREAK the XBox....prove that it was a dumbed down PC. It is. It just lacks a KB and mouse.

Yes, consoles are (and have always been) little more than computers dedicated towards games, and nothing else. The only difference here is that Microsoft somewhat used off-the-shelf components for their first stab at it...

The first thing on people's minds was that the PC would crush their whole XBOX idea. Personally, I'm seeing the opposite to be true, especially with games like Thief 3 and Deus Ex 2 being obviously developed for a console, with the PC "port" almost seeming to be an afterthought. You could certainly say that of Halo to a certain extent as well...

A properly configured PC can do everything each of those stand alone products can do and do it better because they are tweakable.

It goes in cycles. We are at the point where a decent PC can take any console hands down in terms of performance, even if it does cost a bit more. However, with the launch of a new console in a couple of years, the crown will return to the other side, only to swing back a couple years later. Such is the nature of these things...

At this point, the only place where I see a PC taking ANY console in terms of performance at ANY given time is in the resolution, which is simply due to the display device. The vast majority of console games only support 720/640x480 or so, with only a handful of titles providing high-def. So while Metroid Prime Full Spectrum Warrior looks pretty decent as a 480p widescreen picture, it certainly couldn't match a PC running it at a much higher resolution. Monitors > TVs for the most part, and until every game supports high-definition, there's little contest.

I'd go into this a bit more now, but I do have to work...