Powell to Kerry: Back Claims With Names

[The_Lurker]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2& ... &printer=1


"Secretary of State Colin Powell on Sunday challenged Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry to name the foreign leaders whom the Massachusetts senator claims want him as the next U.S. president. "


hmm, i can think of three...

1) France
2) Germany
3) Russia.


yep.

[Roody]

Originally posted by The_Lurker



hmm, i can think of three...

1) France
2) Germany
3) Russia.


yep.

Where did you read that?

[downhill]

Kerry, the all-but-certain Democratic presidential nominee, said at a fund-raiser last week in Florida that he's heard from some world leaders who quietly back his candidacy and hope he defeats President Bush in November.



Kerry should respond that as soon as the Whitehouse agrees to cooperate in the 9-11 investigation, and the investigaton into the Plume affair, he'll release the names of leaders who "quietly" back him.

Let me add to your list of possibles..

Afghanistan (382)
Albania (101)
Algeria (87)
Andorra (101)
Angola (57)
Antigua and Barbuda (110)
Argentina (2463)
Armenia (219)
Australia (99660)
Austria (2136)
Azerbaijan (140)
Bahamas (1152)
Bahrain (159)
Bangladesh (518)
Barbados (282)
Belarus (223)
Belgium (4639)
Belize (774)
Benin (24)
Bhutan (97)
Bolivia (265)
Bosnia and Herzegovina (250)
Botswana (167)
Brazil (3533)
Brunei (266)
Bulgaria (882)
Burkina Faso (56)
Burundi (40)
Cambodia (402)
Cameroon (69)
Canada (135687)
Cape Verde (27)
Central African Republic (24)
Chad (53)
Chile (1268)
China (13185)
Colombia (655)
Comoros (39)
Congo (Brazzaville) (36)
Congo, Democratic Republic of the (91)
Costa Rica (1351)
Croatia (936)
Cuba (381)
Cyprus (903)
Czech Republic (2810)
Côte d'Ivoire (74)
Denmark (5186)
Djibouti (27)
Dominica (116)
Dominican Republic (583)
East Timor (Timor Timur) (54)
Ecuador (651)
Egypt (1098)
El Salvador (190)
Equatorial Guinea (40)
Eritrea (33)
Estonia (518)
Ethiopia (150)
Fiji (360)
Finland (2957)
France (22060)
Gabon (30)
Gambia, The (70)
Georgia (253)
Germany (10483)
Ghana (160)
Greece (6315)
Grenada (139)
Guatemala (306)
Guinea (30)
Guinea-Bissau (18)
Guyana (92)
Haiti (126)
Honduras (222)
Hungary (993)
Iceland (1197)
India (30762)
Indonesia (5813)
Iran (947)
Iraq (338)
Ireland (17946)
Israel (4486)
Italy (15627)
Jamaica (678)
Japan (7874)
Jordan (808)
Kazakhstan (161)
Kenya (497)
Kiribati (19)
Korea, North (130)
Korea, South (4607)
Kuwait (281)
Kyrgyzstan (80)
Laos (125)
Latvia (445)
Lebanon (852)
Lesotho (32)
Liberia (63)
Libya (87)
Liechtenstein (74)
Lithuania (457)
Luxembourg (329)
Macedonia, Former Yugoslav Republic of (255)
Madagascar (59)
Malawi (103)
Malaysia (8748)
Maldives (128)
Mali (61)
Malta (556)
Marshall Islands (34)
Mauritania (22)
Mauritius (183)
Mexico (5254)
Micronesia, Federated States of (104)
Moldova (92)
Monaco (150)
Mongolia (237)
Morocco (254)
Mozambique (59)
Myanmar (263)
Namibia (203)
Nauru (14)
Nepal (795)
Netherlands (11898)
New Zealand (23714)
Nicaragua (155)
Niger (25)
Nigeria (342)
Norway (2024)
Oman (145)
Pakistan (1963)
Palau (43)
Panama (315)
Papua New Guinea (213)
Paraguay (89)
Peru (940)
Philippines (5988)
Poland (1490)
Portugal (1926)
Qatar (135)
Romania (1127)
Russia (3766)
Rwanda (66)
Saint Kitts and Nevis (63)
Saint Lucia (113)
Saint Vincent and The Grenadines (83)
Samoa (46)
San Marino (47)
Sao Tome and Principe (26)
Saudi Arabia (597)
Senegal (72)
Serbia and Montenegro (753)
Seychelles (165)
Sierra Leone (41)
Singapore (12540)
Slovakia (441)
Slovenia (628)
Solomon Islands (54)
Somalia (62)
South Africa (7672)
Spain (10742)
Sri Lanka (839)
Sudan (151)
Suriname (47)
Swaziland (44)
Sweden (4710)
Switzerland (5525)
Syria (289)
Taiwan (4684)
Tajikistan (62)
Tanzania (323)
Thailand (7870)
Togo (32)
Tonga (116)
Trinidad and Tobago (320)
Tunisia (128)
Turkey (2545)
Turkmenistan (53)
Tuvalu (28)
Uganda (202)
Ukraine (880)
United Arab Emirates (1003)
United Kingdom (228401)

Uruguay (175)
Uzbekistan (198)
Vanuatu (53)
Vatican City (46)
Venezuela (846)
Vietnam (1077)
Western Sahara (12)
Yemen (127)
Zambia (98)
Zimbabwe (250)

I've taken the liberty of leaving in the United Kingdom..Even though Tony Blair may disagree..he isn't the only leader.

[Roody]

Can't say that I disagree with you DH, but this idea in politics that one wrong justifies another wrong is ludicrous. Nothing ever gets dealt with properly when this attitude is taken.

[downhill]

Originally posted by Roody
Can't say that I disagree with you DH, but this two wrongs makes a right stuff is so boring in politics nowadays. The idea that one wrong justifies another wrong is ludicrous.

Just having a bit of fun, Roody. About the Kerry thing, your sure that he hasn't recived word from other leaders who would wish him well? I would think it would be ludicrous to think otherwise...Same can be said of the President. Do you think that possibly he hasn't recieved the same info from other world leaders.

It could even be said that there are a few who are wishing "both" them well....For the same reasons that Corporations give to both parties.

I guess I'm not seeing this two wrongs don't make a right thing..

Are you interested in the White House offical response by Terry Holt? I belive he said something like this....

"Senator Kerry's foreign friends may prefer him as US president, but the election is in the hands of the American people."

So there we have it.......we the people, acording the offical Whithouse postion and I'm sure Kerry's as well, will decide this election.

[Roody]

My apologies DH for making it seem like I was chastising you. In fact I wasn't just talking about politics in general. I dont doubt that Kerry has backing of leaders just asking Lurker about where he heard for sure.

[Ghosthunter]

FLIP-FLOP is full of it..i think he has fantasies...

[The_Lurker]

hey DH, you left Kuwait in as well.

nope, can't belive that.

[downhill]

Originally posted by The_Lurker
hey DH, you left Kuwait in as well.

nope, can't belive that.

LOL...your right!!! Actually I was just joking around.....glad you didn't take it personal.

I see GH is right on track for being off topic again.


Roody, I didn't take it as chastising, I was only resonding to the post. No apologies needed, my friend.

[Ghosthunter]

Originally posted by downhill
LOL...your right!!! Actually I was just joking around.....glad you didn't take it personal.

I see GH is right on track for being off topic again.


Roody, I didn't take it as chastising, I was only resonding to the post. No apologies needed, my friend.

if what he is say is true he is on the verge of dangerous ground because he might be inferring he is getting foreign money..hope we dont have another slick willy situation again

[Onethenumber2]

hmm can you say CHINA. Im sure they're hopeing he will be like Clinton and we will share military secerets with them and let them pay off our chief exectutive to do what they want.

Clinton issued waviers on sanctions agaisnt exports of ICBM and satilite technology to the PR of China even as he knew China then continued to violate international law on nuclear non proliferation by passing on US secerets to Pakistan. Because of some of the waviers the US lost government satilites that were launched by flawed Chinease rockets.
Source: Dereliction of Duty, Buzz Patterson

VERY cool book. By this dude that carried the "football" briefcase with the codes to lauch US Nukes. He saw the presidency first hand. The coolest part is how the author stays out of political comentary. He simply exposes how Clinton flippantly and repeatedly jepardized US national security.


Sorry for the off topic Clinton flame. Anybody who wants to talk about Clinton and National Security needs to go to Barnes and Nobles and read that book (or at least Appx. B) its amazing.

"

[jayyy]

So basically, he can't win. He claims he has the support of the international community, and he's framed as a liar. If he drops it, it;ll be a flip-flop.

But in the cae that he proves it, thats no problem either- thats means he's a traitor, maipulable by foreign influences.

[Meggie]

Originally posted by Onethenumber2
hmm can you say CHINA. Im sure they're hopeing he will be like Clinton and we will share military secerets with them and let them pay off our chief exectutive to do what they want.

Clinton issued waviers on sanctions agaisnt exports of ICBM and satilite technology to the PR of China even as he knew China then continued to violate international law on nuclear non proliferation by passing on US secerets to Pakistan. Because of some of the waviers the US lost government satilites that were launched by flawed Chinease rockets.
Source: Dereliction of Duty, Buzz Patterson

VERY cool book. By this dude that carried the "football" briefcase with the codes to lauch US Nukes. He saw the presidency first hand. The coolest part is how the author stays out of political comentary. He simply exposes how Clinton flippantly and repeatedly jepardized US national security.


Sorry for the off topic Clinton flame. Anybody who wants to talk about Clinton and National Security needs to go to Barnes and Nobles and read that book (or at least Appx. B) its amazing.

"

dude no ones talking about clinton... hes done and gone, u guys gotta get over it. what next? bringing up what nixon did as a way to bash future presidents? it just shows lack of evidence against who u are really trying to target.

[Ghosthunter]

Originally posted by jayyy
So basically, he can't win. He claims he has the support of the international community, and he's framed as a liar. If he drops it, it;ll be a flip-flop.

But in the cae that he proves it, thats no problem either- thats means he's a traitor, maipulable by foreign influences.

yep flip flop got himself in one fine mess

[The_Lurker]

Damn that Nixon, Damn him to hell!!!

[jayyy]

Originally posted by Ghosthunter
yep flip flop got himself in one fine mess

Sure..he didn't actually do anything wrong, just got himself in a mess with the smear machine.

And you don't mind seeing him discredited that way, because beating him is more important than whats fair or true.

[Ghosthunter]

Originally posted by jayyy
Sure..he didn't actually do anything wrong, just got himself in a mess with the smear machine.

And you don't mind seeing him discredited that way, because beating him is more important than whats fair or true.

smear is politics such is life..dont get into it if you cannot take the heat.

[downhill]

Originally posted by Ghosthunter
smear is politics such is life..dont get into it if you cannot take the heat.

GH........have you just flip flopped on your position again? Is that normal politics for your party? Could it be your hate for the other side is something you've been brainwashed into your own truth?

Man it's starting to look that way, isn't it.

I've some news for you though....Kerry isn't one to take the smear laying down. IMHO, he dosn't need to resort to it to win, either.

Your aware that the President has hired the king of smear? Alex Castellanos , the man who invented it. Now why would the President do that? What's he afraid of that he has to hire the best smear captian on the planet?

[jayyy]

Originally posted by Ghosthunter
smear is politics such is life..dont get into it if you cannot take the heat.

So you admit that you don't have a problem with it, and post it as if its the truth when you see it.

And at the same time, I see calls from other Bush voters on here for "mature discussions" where we "rise above the name-calling, and discuss the facts".

[Ghosthunter]

Originally posted by downhill
GH........have you just flip flopped on your position again? Is that normal politics for your party? Could it be your hate for the other side is something you've been brainwashed into your own truth?

Man it's starting to look that way, isn't it.

I've some news for you though....Kerry isn't one to take the smear laying down. IMHO, he dosn't need to resort to it to win, either.

Your aware that the President has hired the king of smear? Alex Castellanos , the man who invented it. Now why would the President do that? What's he afraid of that he has to hire the best smear captian on the planet?

it happens on both sides....like that is really big news?


that is why i say dont get into politics if cant take the heat

[Roody]

Originally posted by jayyy
So basically, he can't win. He claims he has the support of the international community, and he's framed as a liar. If he drops it, it;ll be a flip-flop.

But in the cae that he proves it, thats no problem either- thats means he's a traitor, maipulable by foreign influences.

Not in my book. I dont doubt Kerry is telling the truth Id just like to know for curiousity sake who the leaders are.

[Thcranky1]

The Kerry Campaign is BASED on smearing the president. Are you all late to the event or something? Apparently you didn't watch any of your parties debates prior to the caucases huh? And to say that Bush hired someone good at smear tactics only proves from your own words that the Republican party isn't about that whatsoever and again by your statements it would be apparently obvious that the guy was hired because Republicans are not good at being brats that complain and gripe after voting for the president to go do what he has done. LOL I cannot get over how quickly the views changed from the Democrats prior to us going into Iraq about ohh let's wait let's wait hold on hold on wait a little longer...then after voting YES to going into Iraq they immediately turn around and say well well hurry up where are these weapons huh well well where are they hurry up come on. BRATS!!
Not to mention the thought that less then 4 years ago the Presidential Candidate the Dems chose has been completely disassciated from and is seen as almost an embarrassment and in addition why is not the Dem Vice Presidential candidate from 2000 not your Presidential Candidate now? Hell why not at least the Vice running with Katsup Kerry?
Face it!! The Democratic party has lost sight of their real message...the message that was so apparent and great by the greats of old like Roosevelt, Truman and Kennedy.

Gone are those Democrats...those men not only were proud of their country and backed her fully...they were men who proposed ideas and solutions to issues. Katsup Kerry and the Democrats of today aside from a few like Lieberman are stating over and over how wrong things are done but yet to this day not one time have I heard any resolution from them. As a matter of fact I have heard contradiction throughout and for anyone to not see it must be so chocked up full of rhetoric that they can't even see their toes.

PEACE!!

--Thcranky1

[jayyy]

Originally posted by Roody
Not in my book. I dont doubt Kerry is telling the truth Id just like to know for curiousity sake who the leaders are.

Me too, actually. My point was just that no matter who it was or what he does, it'll be used against him negatively now.

[jayyy]

Originally posted by Thcranky1
And to say that Bush hired someone good at smear tactics only proves from your own words that the Republican party isn't about that whatsoever and again by your statements it would be apparently obvious that the guy was hired because Republicans are not good at being brats that complain and gripe after voting for the president to go do what he has done. LOL

?

[Onethenumber2]

does anyone actually read the posts they argue against?

[downhill]

Originally posted by Onethenumber2
does anyone actually read the posts they argue against?

I would wonder the same thing. You accuse Senator Kerry of running a smear campain but you seem to have conviently left out that President Bush has hired the godfather of smear. Alex Castellanos....Possibly because you didn't know?

[Onethenumber2]

I dont think I ever said the word smear. All I said was that certain foreign interests always like it when we have a new leader that they might be able to use from either side of the board. I used a former president as an example.

[jayyy]

Originally posted by Onethenumber2
does anyone actually read the posts they argue against?

I'm reading it over and over again. Here it is again, perhaps you can "cross party lines" and explain it to me:

Originally posted by Thcranky1
And to say that Bush hired someone good at smear tactics only proves from your own words that the Republican party isn't about that whatsoever and again by your statements it would be apparently obvious that the guy was hired because Republicans are not good at being brats that complain and gripe after voting for the president to go do what he has done. LOL

Its like having an argument with crickets, grasshoppers and ladybugs.

[jayyy]

Even more to the heart of the matter:

Originally posted by Ghosthunter
smear is politics such is life..dont get into it if you cannot take the heat.

I call on all Bush supporters to make a stand on this line of thinking, one way or the other.


It seems like some of you want to have it both ways...scream for reason when opinion is against you, but silently tolerate the BS going on from your own ranks. You want to have your cake and eat it too.

One says the republican hire smearers because they can't do it themselves because they're not "brats" like the democrats (Nyahnyahnayah, I'm 8 years old)...

Another says "Smear is life, if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen" (We're bullies and we can shove the hardest)

And what do supposedly intelligent republicans that want their ideas to be taken seriously say about these contradictions from their own ranks? Nothing.

Its crap like this that gives me 0% respect for Bush supporters on ANY level. If you want to be taken seriously in a debate, set yourself apart from these people.

[Roody]

Perhaps I am reading this title all wrong, but seeing as how the President and Powell havent always seen eye to eye I seriously doubt Powell is a puppet for the President. IMO, this was a remark and claim that Powell himself chose to say. Although the White House has supported this theory it seems a bit off topic to me to bring in the White House because the title talks only of Powell and Kerry.

IMO, Powell's remarks hold weight although not disclosing names doesn't mean Kerry is lying. All in all it was probably best for Kerry to have not made that remark.

[Ghosthunter]

Originally posted by jayyy
Even more to the heart of the matter:




I call on all Bush supporters to make a stand on this line of thinking, one way or the other.


It seems like some of you want to have it both ways...scream for reason when opinion is against you, but silently tolerate the BS going on from your own ranks. You want to have your cake and eat it too.

One says the republican hire smearers because they can't do it themselves because they're not "brats" like the democrats (Nyahnyahnayah, I'm 8 years old)...

Another says "Smear is life, if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen" (We're bullies and we can shove the hardest)

And what do supposedly intelligent republicans that want their ideas to be taken seriously say about these contradictions from their own ranks? Nothing.

Its crap like this that gives me 0% respect for Bush supporters on ANY level. If you want to be taken seriously in a debate, set yourself apart from these people.

my whole point is it happens on both sides of the fence.

any politician going into a race knows this and expects it.


Powell I think would make a superb President and he would win in a landslide IMO, but he has said he will not run beucase he does not want to put his family though all the smear.



Am I saying it is right? No

I am just saying it is a fact of life and I doubt it will ever change.

[bunson]

http://www.drudgereport.com/kerrybo.htm

[Roody]

Originally posted by bunson
http://www.drudgereport.com/kerrybo.htm

Everyone disregard any major newspaper and/or reporter that contradicts the Drudge Report.

[downhill]

Originally posted by bunson
http://www.drudgereport.com/kerrybo.htm

And cleared up on Drudge. no less..oh the irony..

[Roody]

Originally posted by downhill
And cleared up on Drudge. no less..oh the irony..

[Ghosthunter]

So who wants to take bets Kerry will FLIP FLOP on this somehow?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/ ... index.html

at this point Kerry needs to backup his claim with real info or he going to look like a liar.

[jayyy]

Originally posted by Roody
Perhaps I am reading this title all wrong, but seeing as how the President and Powell havent always seen eye to eye I seriously doubt Powell is a puppet for the President. IMO, this was a remark and claim that Powell himself chose to say.

I think thats naive. Its not a matter of being a "puppet" its a matter of being a part of the administration. Powell isn't just going to go off on the President's contender off the cuff. These things are discussed to the top. Even if he did feel that way, it would be irresponsible to say something without consulting Rove and co.


Its also no conicidence that these statements are made at the tail end of Powell's talks with foreign leaders. The Whitehouse gets press for holding it down diplomatically, and then they end those press conferences with a criticism of Kerry's remarks. The message is clear- "look we're out here doing our job, he's wrong"
Who better to make the claim on behalf of the administration?

[Kyle]

I like what Meg said. What past presidents have done is over with, look at both candadates policies on issues, records of previous service, etc. and pick one that you like. I garuntee nobody is going to change there political ideas after reading this thread.

Wow, a political debate I am actually staying out of... *goes to play UT2k4 *
Kyler1

[Roody]

Originally posted by jayyy
I think thats naive. Its not a matter of being a "puppet" its a matter of being a part of the administration. Powell isn't just going to go off on the President's contender off the cuff. These things are discussed to the top. Even if he did feel that way, it would be irresponsible to say something without consulting Rove and co.


Its also no conicidence that these statements are made at the tail end of Powell's talks with foreign leaders. The Whitehouse gets press for holding it down diplomatically, and then they end those press conferences with a criticism of Kerry's remarks. The message is clear- "look we're out here doing our job, he's wrong"
Who better to make the claim on behalf of the administration?

Naive? No way Jayyy. It doesn't take much research to know that Powell although loyal has had his issues with the President and how he has done things. Powell's point about Kerry was a good one and sorry, but I just don't buy that Powell is doing something here that he doesn't believe in. To suggest otherwise IMO is to suggest without proof.

Just my own .02

[jayyy]

Originally posted by Roody
Naive? No way Jayyy. It doesn't take much research to know that Powell although loyal has had his issues with the President and how he has done things. Powell's point about Kerry was a good one and sorry, but I just don't buy that Powell is doing something here that he doesn't believe in. To suggest otherwise IMO is to suggest without proof.

Just my own .02

How the info could be used by other parties later is another matter, but at this point its not even partisan, or a go on Powell, its just about how things work, period. No matter what the impetus was, I can guarantee you that statement was discussed by everyone before he said it. The same would be true with a democrat admin.