Funny XBOX sale

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:36 pm

Spammy wrote:So if I sell someone a Mortgage and I tell them that this is a 30 year fixed and it isn't.
It would be the property owners fault for not reading all the detail.?

what about misrepresentation?

No becasue then you are not selling a 30 yr fixed.

The seller is selling an XBOX 360 System BOX ONLY, no matter how much the buyers bid, its still jus t a box.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:37 pm

Brent wrote:why should you care, if someone is wililng to put out $400 for an empty box let em, it is not for you to decide

The same way they can do what they want...I guess I can do what I want..only difference being that Im right and they are wrong. You being the person that you claim to be, should already know the answer to your outrageous reply.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:43 pm

It's socially engineered advertising that's misleading. Yes it technically describes it as being just the empty box...that's the loophole he's trying to get over people who naively believe this is an honest attempt at a sale.

Most people know how the mind works, how the eyes read (speed reading, group reading, images only, etc). It is aimed at the naive buyer..the "One in one-thousand" person who will go "Yay...an X-Box"..and bang the heck out of their mouse button doing the "Buy now buy now buy now hurry hurry hurry". Yeah nine hundred and ninety nine other people are sharp enough to catch the scam...but that one in one-thousand...well, that's the odds that this scam artist is banking on. It's the percentages that most scam artists bank on...that eventually....someone dumb enough will come along.

The game is not new, just the vehicles/methods used in pulling the scam.

Makes me sad to think people are sticking up for the scam artists. "Well...the people should be smart enough, if you leave your house unlocked...you deserve to be robbed!"

WTF kind of mentality is that? Sad I tell ya.

Spammy · Post by **Spammy** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:44 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:No becasue then you are not selling a 30 yr fixed.

The seller is selling an XBOX 360 System BOX ONLY, no matter how much the buyers bid, its still jus t a box.

Yeah but it said it in small print.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:44 pm

thepieman wrote:The same way they can do what they want...I guess I can do what I want..only difference being that Im right and they are wrong. You being the person that you claim to be, should already know the answer to your outrageous reply.

Its not a matter of right and wrong. Its a metter of what is allowed, and Ebay's policies and actions support the big guy, not the little guy, so stuff liek this gets canned.

The Ebay/Paypal combo is beyond the evils of Walmart, i'm surprised you deal with them at all.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:45 pm

Prove to me where the buyer in each instance didn't know that he wasn't getting the box only.

Your point holds no water unless I see proof that both buyers thought they were going to get an XBox but didn't get what they they thought they would.

The facts are that in the title and description the item being sold is clearly marked for what it is, no lies, no deceptions.

It is the buyers fault if they do not read the description or title of what they are actually buying.

I am sure many of you have bought a product and then got home after reading the description fully only to find out it wasn't what you thought it was. If you had read the description before you left the store you would have known. It was your own fault for not reading, we've all hit ourselves over the head on stuff like that.

I want proof that both buyers thought they were getting a full XBox system and did not put down the money knowing they were paying for an empty box.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:46 pm

Spammy wrote:Yeah but it said it in small print.

No, it did not, read the links again, it is in all caps, and in one even bolded.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:46 pm

Brent wrote:Here is the link for the auction

http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-Xbox-Prem ... dZViewItem

the title says clearly "Microsoft Xbox Premium 360! FAST Shipping! ONLY Box"

Yeah the title clearly states yadda yadda yadda blah blah...look in the middle. If its so innocent then why did they Ban the seller...because he's a thief thats why. Look at him now...No more Ebay registration. He blew his 104 feedbacks because he got greedy trying to sell a worthless box for 400 bucks. Thank god there aren't more people like you with no morals selling on ebay. Especially around the holidays. Having losers like that take inncoent peoples money would spoil anyones holiday.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:47 pm

Spammy wrote:Yeah but it said it in small print.

No in the title it said BOX ONLY, in all caps, i dont know about other auctions but the original one that was linked that is gone was "BOX ONLY"

Now even if it was small print its still listed and listed in teh title, so to related that to u selling your 30 yr fixed thats not fixed you would have to tell the person that your selling a 3oyr fixed, non fixed mortgage.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:48 pm

Look YOS and Brent...you are BOTH wrong. The majority of those guys are now Banned or have their auctions pulled so Im sorry but you are wrong. Say what you want about it..Its just wrong. If it was right, the auctions would still be there and they wouldn't be banned. Im glad they got what was coming to them.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:49 pm

Brent wrote:Prove to me where the buyer in each instance didn't know that he wasn't getting the box only.

Your point holds no water unless I see proof that both buyers thought they were going to get an XBox but didn't get what they they thought they would.

The facts are that in the title and description the item being sold is clearly marked for what it is, no lies, no deceptions.

It is the buyers fault if they do not read the description or title of what they are actually buying.

I am sure many of you have bought a product and then got home after reading the description fully only to find out it wasn't what you thought it was. If you had read the description before you left the store you would have known. It was your own fault for not reading, we've all hit ourselves over the head on stuff like that.

I want proof that both buyers thought they were getting a full XBox system and did not put down the money knowing they were paying for an empty box.

Please Respond with Proof.

Thanks

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:49 pm

thepieman wrote:Yeah the title clearly states yadda yadda yadda blah blah...look in the middle. If its so innocent then why did they Ban the seller...because he's a thief thats why. Look at him now...No more Ebay registration. He blew his 104 feedbacks because he got greedy trying to sell a worthless box for 400 bucks. Thank god there aren't more people like you with no morals selling on ebay. Especially around the holidays. Having losers like that take inncoent peoples money would spoil anyones holiday.

BUT! YOU SEE THE TITLE FIRST. So after seeing "BOX ONLY" they buy had to choose to look at the auction.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:52 pm

thepieman wrote:Look YOS and Brent...you are BOTH wrong. The majority of those guys are now Banned or have their auctions pulled so Im sorry but you are wrong. Say what you want about it..Its just wrong. If it was right, the auctions would still be there and they wouldn't be banned. Im glad they got what was coming to them.

Im not wrong, its my personal feelings, so its what I feel. and Ebay agrees with what you feel, so they closed it down. as I have said a ton of times, ebay closes plently of "good" auctions.

I say cut out the specs and let it roll, and I stand behind what i've said.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:55 pm

Brent wrote:Please Respond with Proof.

Thanks

Show absolute tangible proof of good or bad morals.

Blisster · Post by **Blisster** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:56 pm

It's kinda like that time I went to Rick's Cabaret in New Orleans and threw my credit card down. I thought for $550.00 plus cash tips I'd be getting the "around the world" treatment, but really all I got was a hangover and blue balls.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:57 pm

Blisster wrote:blue balls.

Partying in New Orleans and you still had blue ones?

Dang dude....you forgot to brush your teeth that night didn't ya?

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:00 pm

Brent wrote:Please Respond with Proof.

Thanks

I contacted the winner right before they banned the seller , so lets see if he knew after I sent him a contact message asking him wether or not he knew he was purchasing an empty box for 400.00 or not and to contact ebay immediately before he paid for the item if he didn't know it was empty.
I seriously doubt the guy was willing to pay 400.00 for an empty box wether or not you think it has some kind of collectible value which it doesn't.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:02 pm

thepieman wrote:I contacted the winner right before they banned the seller , so lets see if he knew after I sent him a contact message asking him wether or not he knew he was purchasing an empty box for 400.00 or not and to contact ebay immediately before he paid for the item if he didn't know it was empty.
I seriously doubt the guy was willing to pay 400.00 for an empty box wether or not you think it has some kind of collectible value which it doesn't.

I thought the bidders names were kept private? Or was the other one public?

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:05 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:I thought the bidders names were kept private? Or was the other one public?

There was like 8or 9 copycats..some of them had private but the guy that sold it for 400 was public.

Prey521 · Post by **Prey521** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:16 pm

I can see both sides of the story (Yard/Pie), but I'd sooner side with Pie on this issue. Yes, those auctions are clearly marked, to protect their asses, but the creators of those thread are seeking to exploit those whom get caught up in the hype and fever and sometimes don't even bother reading, or maybe even a kid.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:19 pm

Prey521 wrote:I can see both sides of the story (Yard/Pie), but I'd sooner side with Pie on this issue. Yes, those auctions are clearly marked, to protect their asses, but the creators of those thread are seeking to exploit those whom get caught up in the hype and fever and sometimes don't even bother reading, or maybe even a kid.

Would be a good lesson to a kid.

cyberskye · Post by **cyberskye** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:02 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:It's socially engineered advertising that's misleading. Yes it technically describes it as being just the empty box...that's the loophole he's trying to get over people who naively believe this is an honest attempt at a sale.

Rather than a loophole, i would call it the definition of advertising - you can't lie. You must be factual. Why are so many things priced $19.99 - because it seems like a lot less than $20. Is that immoral? I don't know where to draw the line - who should decide?

I can't bring myself to buy something without reading all the fineprint. Be it online or brick n mortar. So I guess I don't have too much sympathy for people who don't feel they need to pay attention. Someone will eventually fix it if they complain - or the'll sue for millions in emotional damage.

YeOldeStonecat wrote: Makes me sad to think people are sticking up for the scam artists. "Well...the people should be smart enough, if you leave your house unlocked...you deserve to be robbed!" WTF kind of mentality is that? Sad I tell ya.

I wouldn't stand up for him per se`, but as long as he isn't telling a lie, I am not sure of what rule he is breaking. People should be able to handle their money responsibly and know what they are purchasing- it's part of being an adult.

AS for leaving the door unlocked - I personally don't think one deserves to have their home robbed, but a reasonable person should know there is a some chance that it might happen...if I swim with sharks I might be bitten - if it does happen, who's fault is that?

De Plano · Post by **De Plano** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:25 pm

They could have thought by box they meant the XBox machine without controllers and all that crap.

A mechanic screws you over by saying you are going to need a new transmission so you go ahead and get one, he just left out the fact it was going to need one in 2- 10 years. Should have taken responsibillity and checked it out yourself?

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:41 pm

cyberskye wrote:Rather than a loophole, i would call it the definition of advertising - you can't lie. You must be factual. Why are so many things priced $19.99 - because it seems like a lot less than $20. Is that immoral? I don't know where to draw the line - who should decide?

Perhaps loophole was not the best choice of words....I dunno, it's a gray area. But scam artists use this area...to find and prey on the weak ones. I dunno, cases like this hear..it's like the opposite of subliminal advertising. It's like they're hoping putting something outfront gets overlooked by the main point. It's the percentages though....999 people will see it and move on, but that 1,000th person might be naive and fall for the trap.

cyberskye wrote:...if I swim with sharks I might be bitten - if it does happen, who's fault is that?

Yeah but the shark doesn't know any better...it's just running on instinct! I can't blame them for what they do.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:46 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:Perhaps loophole was not the best choice of words....I dunno, it's a gray area. But scam artists use this area...to find and prey on the weak ones. I dunno, cases like this hear..it's like the opposite of subliminal advertising. It's like they're hoping putting something outfront gets overlooked by the main point. It's the percentages though....999 people will see it and move on, but that 1,000th person might be naive and fall for the trap.

Yeah but the shark doesn't know any better...it's just running on instinct! I can't blame them for what they do.

Its just like a Nigerian scam letter...1000 people may read it, know all about it and disregard it, but there will be 1 that they hit payday with that doesn't know the deal.
Pie

David · Post by **David** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:32 pm

Like DePlano aptly stated, some people refer to the console itself as "the Box".

I agree with YoS in that EBay is a toilet.

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:35 pm

thepieman wrote:I seriously doubt the guy was willing to pay 400.00 for an empty box wether or not you think it has some kind of collectible value which it doesn't.

I know some people that have paid some ridiculous amount of cash for some (IMO) ridiculous stuff.

What may seem strange to you may not be for someone else. We don't know the reason, but maybe someone did want to pay all that cash for an empty box. Hey, power to them, it's their money. I sure wouldn't do it.

David · Post by **David** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:45 pm

Brent wrote:I know some people that have paid some ridiculous amount of cash for some (IMO) ridiculous stuff.

What may seem strange to you may not be for someone else. We don't know the reason, but maybe someone did want to pay all that cash for an empty box. Hey, power to them, it's their money. I sure wouldn't do it.

I concur that some collectors will spend money on odd things, but this is clearly a scam to lure over anxious buyers seeking an elusive item. It is obvious, do you not think so?

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:47 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Would be a good lesson to a kid.

It'll teach the kid (or parent, grandmother, sister, etc.) that, no matter how hard they may try to please a friend or family member, some as*hole will be waiting in the shadows to f*ck it up at their expense.

Then again, perhaps $400 is a bargain to learn the awful truth that people are really just a bunch of dicks, and you should think twice before trusting anyone...

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:48 pm

Hell_Yes wrote:I concur that some collectors will spend money on odd things, but this is clearly a scam to lure over anxious buyers seeking an elusive item. It is obvious, do you not think so?

IMO it was slightly misleading in order to get a sale by posting the specs. But only slightly, it was clearly marked what it was, I mean what else can you do.

A person should read everything before they buy anything online.

It is the buyers fault if they didn't read what they were paying for.

When I buy anything online I read everything to make sure I'm getting what I want.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:49 pm

It's a scam no matter how you paint it....plain and simple.

To those who think it's ok....remember there is such a thing as karma......and it'll bite you in the end..

Think no evil...

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:53 pm

Hell_Yes wrote:Like DePlano aptly stated, some people refer to the console itself as "the Box".

I agree with YoS in that EBay is a toilet.

well since Ebay is like that, its up to the members to try to keep those kinds of predators out. I'm really surprised why some of those vendors even attempted to test the waters with that kind of scam when they have legitimate sales under their belt with decent feedbacks. I would not risk ruining my name for something that could put you in trouble.

Pie

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:43 am

De Plano wrote:They could have thought by box they meant the XBox machine without controllers and all that crap.

Not even, it went on to say that it did not include anythign and that they were bidding on an empty box.

cyberskye · Post by **cyberskye** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:55 am

downhill wrote:It's a scam no matter how you paint it....plain and simple.

To those who think it's ok....remember there is such a thing as karma......and it'll bite you in the end..

Think no evil...

Not sure what you mean by 'ok' - I think it is immoral and deceptive (one could say that about a given administration in the US

). I haven't heard anyone support the scam, rather discussing the legality. Stupid is as Stupid does. I don't, however, think these things are illegal - no more so than Apple marekting iPod (read tehir battery life estimates - that lie is a crime).

I believe in Evolution followed by Intelligent Design - the stupid will eventually be bred out and we will then have heaven on earth ~

cyberskye · Post by **cyberskye** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:58 am

YeOldeStonecat wrote:Yeah but the shark doesn't know any better...it's just running on instinct! I can't blame them for what they do.

But I do know better. Shall I turn and blame the shark once bitten? THat is the parallel I was trying to draw...

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:31 am

If you know anyone looking to buy on ebay for an Xbox 360 just tell them to be wary

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa? ... 3191607988

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:53 am

pieman, are you hired by ebay to police it for them?

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:05 am

Brent, do you see anything really wrong with helping someone out? Would you be appreciative if indeed a stranger were to keep you from getting burned?

Good deeds are rewarded sooner or later..

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:07 am

Brent wrote:pieman, are you hired by ebay to police it for them?

Yeah I am. Are you a professional asshat, just part time asshat or a asshat hobbyist? Does it pay well?

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:36 am

Brent wrote: A person should read everything before they buy anything online.

It is the buyers fault if they didn't read what they were paying for.
.

I agree with your first sentence.

I don't agree with your second sentence. A lot of people "just don't know any better". There are a lot of easily misled people in this world. There are a lot of naive people in this world. It is this group of people that the scam artists focus on.

As mentioned before...the scam game is a game of percentages. It always has been...even before that world that existed before computers...scam artists were around. It's probably as old as the profession of prostitution.

It's the shotgun effect of blasting out bait....that you know the majority of people will recognize and ignore....but in the hopes of it eventually baiting that naive person. You cast out your bait..and wait for that 1 in 1,000, or 1 in 10,000...or 1 in 1,000,000th person to come along and bite.

The actual scam can walk both sides of the muddy gray line. This one here...if you look at it on the technical, legal level, yeah, it looks legit. Stupid....but technically legit. That's part of the game, so as not to get caught. But on the "We know better" level...it's a scam.

You can point and say "Well...look..can't the buyer read....it says RIGHT HERE!" That's how this guy played the game, this one here is on the "Can't prove it with cold hard facts" side. Most people proceed with "Buyer beware" caution...but he's waiting for the person who isn't so sharp, who isn't so smart, who might be innocent and easily misled.

You know how big the scams are against the elderly...because they're often not as sharp anymore, can tend to be naively trusting?

Don't you, as a Christian, want to protect and defend people from falling prey to these scams? I for one don't like seeing people being taken advantage of.