mnosteele52 wrote:Absolutely, it is a very small town and they obviously don't have the resources (enough Police, Fire & EMS) to handle a situation such as this. Ten people being shot is a mass casualty incident and would even have a city such as the one I work in to call for mutual aid. They have an Army base near by then by all means use the resources available to you.
Why would you even ask such a question?
I don't think it matters in a situation such as this, for this town this was a State of Emergency and you utilize whatever resources you have until you can restore law and order and the local police can take over.brembo wrote:Problem here though. US Army troops are soldiers. Soldiers do not receive copious amounts of training to avoid possible civil right infringements, or at least as much as a police officer does.
A soldier has no legal authority to tell you "return home" or "turn around" except in matters of national security (nukes, WMD and the like) or when yer on federal land.
I'm pretty much re-hashing Posse Comatatus here, but the important points of PC are VERY important. Civil liberty kinda important.
It's obvious you guys aren't in the Emergency Services field.downhill wrote:mnosteele, while I don't disagree with your assessment of the situation, brembo is correct imho.
Posse Comatatus? Exactly. It what states have their own National Guard for.
I give up. People like you will be the ones still agreeing with the government even as you're loaded into a ****ing cattle car.Far-N-Wide wrote:The military needs the experience in these matters as much as any law enforcement agency. I'm sure this cost the small town nothing but asking for some help from the Army Base.
Why have all that man power if you can't use it in the local area when most of those soldier live. Anyways historically, the military will send it's folks out to aid in disasters areas, floods, hurricanes ect... you all watch TV right, so this is nothing new or dangerous.
Troops are briefed on what they can and can not do. So no alarms there, I think it's flipping fantastic that the military can give back to the community whenever possible. Worry if you must but worry about what would have happened if they were not there. I'm sure the shooting spree would have ended on it's own if left unchecked. Besides, Bubah would have ran out of beer or ammo at some point.
Far-N-Wide wrote:The military needs the experience in these matters as much as any law enforcement agency. I'm sure this cost the small town nothing but asking for some help from the Army Base.
Why have all that man power if you can't use it in the local area when most of those soldier live. Anyways historically, the military will send it's folks out to aid in disasters areas, floods, hurricanes ect... you all watch TV right, so this is nothing new or dangerous.
Troops are briefed on what they can and can not do. So no alarms there, I think it's flipping fantastic that the military can give back to the community whenever possible. Worry if you must but worry about what would have happened if they were not there. I'm sure the shooting spree would have ended on it's own if left unchecked. Besides, Bubah would have ran out of beer or ammo at some point.
Not at all.mnosteele52 wrote:
You would be the same people that would have complained if more people were killed you would question why didn't they call for assistance from the Army when they had a base close by. Extreme circumstances calls for extreme measures. With you guys your damned if you do and damned if you don't there is no pleasing you.
Why would anything more than the national guard be needed? At the most?mnosteele52 wrote:I really don't understand you guys. You somehow twist a tragedy that called for resources to be deployed that were way beyond the capabilities of local authorities into some type of "the government is abusing their powers and controlling us again" type of thing.
You would be the same people that would have complained if more people were killed you would question why didn't they call for assistance from the Army when they had a base close by. Extreme circumstances calls for extreme measures. With you guys your damned if you do and damned if you don't there is no pleasing you.
As I stated above, most likely the Army was the quickest resource available to assist them and willing to do so. In emergencies you use whatever resources are available to you. It appears and it likely they only used a minimal amount of soldiers to assist them with the situation. Trust me, I have been involved with mass casualty incidents, hurricanes, tornadoes and very large fires and you will take any resources that are offered or available to you. When drills are performed for these types of incidents there are plans that are laid out to follow, but they are only guidelines because you cannot predict what will happen and what you will have available as a resource at the time of the actual incident.downhill wrote:Why would anything more than the national guard be needed? At the most?
downhill wrote:Why would anything more than the national guard be needed? At the most?
JawZ wrote:Well, I really did not want to have to come back to this thread but it looks like I'm forced to.
You guys need to brush up on your Constitution.
Article 6 gives us (military) supremacy over everything. We don't need martial law to invade a town. Why? Because if the base commander considers an "outside the wire incident" a threat to his assets, people, or facilities, he can order his troops to sweep and clear. It is a lawful order and one that I'm compelled to follow.
Now, after being backed up by the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act, we can take control of National Guard Units without anyone's consent. thanks President Bush...heart u.
Coincidentally........
Alabama just so happens to be one of those pesky little redneck states (22 states so far) that wants to deny our current President and Commander in Chief, the ability to unilaterally force the Stimulus down every states throats.
These 22 states are introducing legislation that asserts or reaffirms their sovereignty under the 10th Amendment....which says that the Fed acts as their agent and is subservient.
LOL....states rights.
So...anybody wanna take a guess as to what the mission of the Ft Rucker soldiers was in Samson?
It wasn't to protect the civilian citizens...............
Burke wrote:I give up. People like you will be the ones still agreeing with the government even as you're loaded into a ****ing cattle car.
downhill wrote:Tell me, Far...what are our national guard troops for?
Secondly, what does Posse Comitatus mean to you? Just something to sweep under the rug when it's inconvenient?
Amen.Far-N-Wide wrote:When the Government (local or other wise) does nothing but let the slaughter continue you'd be ok with that?
You can't have it both ways you know, you either have a Government set up to maintain the peace and provide security to it’s citizens. In this case it provided requested aid to the local authorities that asked for assistance. But... you now want a Government that provides nothing, and tell them to solve their own problems.
I think if someone gave you a bowl of free Ice cream. You would bitch about it because it’s cold.
I have worked for the Government the majority of my life and continue to do so to this day. Your contempt or hate mongering of the services it provides is just amazing. Please tell us a utopia you find acceptable to live in and we can all move there and be happy. Or, you can man up and become part of the solution. Run for office and make some changes in the areas you are so peeved about.
At the very least continue to post your depressing this or that crap, that drags the forums down to a depressing level...
Be part of the solution or continue to be part of the problem.
dannjr wrote: Do I support military use in a town NO but in this case 90% of the people who live in that area are military.
It's not black and white, just like life there a lot of gray areas, but you don't want to admit that. You want to act as if this is a perfect world and everything should be cut and dry. You are notorious for taking things out of context to try and prove your point, you only post one side of every story to suit your needs rather than both sides. This is why you added myself and others to your ignore list, you don't want to hear any point of view other than your own yet act as if we are the ones who are close minded.JawZ wrote:One of the things that needs to be pointed out and stressed with regard to dannjr's post is that it's an affirmation of knowing right from wrong.
Many times I have been in a position where I knew right from wrong....but denied my own truth in order to conform to an ideology (conservatism).
We as a nation need to move beyond the herd mentality.
If you don't support military use in a town...you don't support military use in a town.....there is no need to make an excuse for your own truth.
Nice to see you dannjr.
AND its way to nice out to be sittin here different size disaster. it's one thing to get a few people to a small town as opposed to gettin thousands with huge amounts of suppliesRoundEye wrote:I was under the impression that under the Posse Comitatus Act the governor had to ask the federal government for help before troops could be sent in. Do we know that their help wasn’t asked for? There’s a video circulating on the net of Blanco, our former governor, stating that she should’ve asked for help sooner (she thought the camera was off).
If the feds are so fast what happened after Katrina? I would bet that the abysmal response, on every level of government, after the hurricane makes the feds jump at the slightest chance of civil unrest.
