windows update question

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:14 pm

i am installing an old version of XP pro on my sisters PC, she had windows 2000 and it was time for an upgrade.

this is a legit version i got way back when they offered it for $50 and it is no longer in use by me anymore.

i installed it just fine but it says i need to activate it before getting windows updates ? WTF, when did they start that crap ? ?

this is an old version, before SP1 so i need everything including SP3.

i'm not sure if this install is going to work and would hate to waste this key for nothing.

any way to get all updates without activating through microsoft, just so i can make sure it works ?

if it runs okay i will have them activate it in a few weeks, i just want to make sure my key is not locked out in the future.

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:30 pm

Its always worked like that, for ages, has to be activated to get updates from MS.

http://www.softwarepatch.com/windows/

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:36 pm

YARDofSTUF wrote:Its always worked like that, for ages, has to be activated to get updates from MS.

http://www.softwarepatch.com/windows/

right on, i forgot about that site, muchos gracias amigo

but i could have sworn i used to get updates before without activating,

but then it has been soon time since i did this

koldchillah · Post by **koldchillah** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:41 pm

Try downloading the full SP3 installer and run it seperately without using the windows update site.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=en

It's been a while since I've run across a pre-SP1 copy of XP, but I think you can install the service packs without activating as long as you use the full installer packages.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:42 pm

koldchillah wrote:Try downloading the full SP3 installer and run it seperately without using the windows update site.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=en

It's been a while since I've run across a pre-SP1 copy of XP, but I think you can install the service packs without activating as long as you use the full installer packages.

sweet

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:46 pm

If you aren't using it on another computer, just activate it. I'm on the 3rd or 4th install on my personal computer with upgrades and such.

The one before the last one, I had to call in to get it done but this last one wasn't a bit of a hassle.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:58 pm

Simple steps here..

download SP2 and install... download SP3 and install... activate and then run the rest of windowsupdates.

But to be honest I would have just slip streamed both packs into a single disk along with IE7 and WM11 and reloaded it again.

koldchillah · Post by **koldchillah** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:04 pm

Sava700 wrote:Simple steps here..

download SP2 and install... download SP3 and install... activate and then run the rest of windowsupdates.

But to be honest I would have just slip streamed both packs into a single disk along with IE7 and WM11 and reloaded it again.

You could do it that way, but you don't need to install SP2 or even SP1 first.. Just save yourself the time and go straight to SP3.

CableDude · Post by **CableDude** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:05 pm

Sava700 wrote: But to be honest I would have just slip streamed both packs into a single disk along with IE7 and WM11 and reloaded it again.

Sava = Master software engineer.

mnosteele52 · Post by **mnosteele52** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:19 pm

Sava700 wrote:Simple steps here..

download SP2 and install... download SP3 and install... activate and then run the rest of windowsupdates.

But to be honest I would have just slip streamed both packs into a single disk along with IE7 and WM11 and reloaded it again.

There is no need to install both service packs, SP3 superseeds SP2 so all you need is SP3.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:40 am

koldchillah wrote:You could do it that way, but you don't need to install SP2 or even SP1 first.. Just save yourself the time and go straight to SP3.

The one time I tried going from virgin XP to SP3, SP3 wouldn't install, gave an error that I needed at least SP1 to install SP3. So I SP2'd it then SP3'd it.

koldchillah · Post by **koldchillah** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:06 am

YeOldeStonecat wrote:The one time I tried going from virgin XP to SP3, SP3 wouldn't install, gave an error that I needed at least SP1 to install SP3. So I SP2'd it then SP3'd it.

I eat my words then.

Although Microsoft's SP3 website says that it will install on: Windows XP Home, Windows XP Pro, Windows XP w/ SP1, or Windows XP w/ SP2.. etc.

If it requires SP1, they should just say so on the main page.. however after investigating the overview document associated with SP3, I find you are correct:

From Microsoft: You can run the SP3 update package on any edition of Windows XP SP1 or SP2

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:11 am

I was shocked when that happened also. Granted any PC we're updating should be rather current, (especially any we're in charge of)...but once in a blue moon you come across a virgin XP install. Or...rebuilding someones older PC that came with only virgin XP media. Granted...yeah build a slipstream CD, but amount of times coming across a virgin XP setup is less than the time spent building a slipstream for me.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:46 am

mnosteele52 wrote:There is no need to install both service packs, SP3 superseeds SP2 so all you need is SP3.

hmm I don't know about that....not saying your wrong but that doesn't make sense. I've not tried a SP1 to SP3 update skipping over SP2 yet cause I've not run across a machine with SP1 only. But from what I've heard it will cause problems. Makes more sense to me to slipstream SP2 then SP3 behind it just as a precaution to avoid issues. Takes a extra few mins either way.

mnosteele52 · Post by **mnosteele52** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:11 am

YOSC is correct, XP will not update to SP3 without atleast SP1. I misread the first post about it being just XP without any service packs. But XP with SP1 or SP2 will update to SP3 without any problems. It is not needed to update tp SP2 then SP3, you can install SP3 directly, I do this all the time.

Post by **Philip** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:42 am

A related question...

I was helping a friend over the phone with XP Pro installation on some older PC, and this got me stumped.

After formatting, copying the files from the CD, before he can login to install NIC drivers or anything, he's prompted to activate:

"This copy of Windows must be activated with Microsoft before you can log on. Do you want to activate now?"

Naturally, he can't activate over the internet because his NIC is not recognized and he can't even install drivers for it without logging in... So he calls Microsoft. They ask him to read them some numbers from the PC to activate, however those numbers are missing - they say Windows can't recognize some of his hardware so they can't activate it, checkmate, call tech support. What a pain.

Any ideas ?

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:48 am

Philip wrote:A related question...

I was helping a friend over the phone with XP Pro installation on some older PC, and this got me stumped.

After formatting, copying the files from the CD, before he can login to install NIC drivers or anything, he's prompted to activate:

"This copy of Windows must be activated with Microsoft before you can log on. Do you want to activate now?"

Naturally, he can't activate over the internet because his NIC is not recognized and he can't even install drivers for it without logging in... So he calls Microsoft. They ask him to read them some numbers from the PC to activate, however those numbers are missing - they say Windows can't recognize some of his hardware so they can't activate it, checkmate, call tech support. What a pain.

Any ideas ?

umm I install the drivers first then click activate.. you got 30 days to do it

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:54 am

Get at least the motherboard chipset drivers installed. WPA creates something like a hash when it activates, based on the majority of hardware that it's installed on. If it's some oddball hardware that the native Windows library doesn't have any info on...it doesn't have enough information to begin the WPA process.

Philip wrote:A related question...

I was helping a friend over the phone with XP Pro installation on some older PC, and this got me stumped....

Post by **Philip** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:03 am

YeOldeStonecat wrote:Get at least the motherboard chipset drivers installed. WPA creates something like a hash when it activates, based on the majority of hardware that it's installed on. If it's some oddball hardware that the native Windows library doesn't have any info on...it doesn't have enough information to begin the WPA process.

Problem is it won't let him login before activation to install any drivers... Safe mode ?

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:06 am

Philip wrote:Problem is it won't let him login before activation to install any drivers... Safe mode ?

yeah safe mode might work but I've never run into that issue

I've seen where it prompts for the activate but I skip it till I get in and then load drivers... very odd problem you have there.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:15 am

Philip wrote:Problem is it won't let him login before activation to install any drivers... Safe mode ?

Has this been attempted for over a month? From what I remember on some oddball installs like this, you should be able to log in for a month before activating. Did he try this like..a month ago...and it getting around to trying to finish it now?

Can try to activate it it safe mode....haven't tried it, msoobe is the file, inside of system32\oobe

Post by **Philip** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:25 am

YeOldeStonecat wrote:Has this been attempted for over a month? From what I remember on some oddball installs like this, you should be able to log in for a month before activating. Did he try this like..a month ago...and it getting around to trying to finish it now?

Can try to activate it it safe mode....haven't tried it, msoobe is the file, inside of system32\oobe

Fresh HDD, just installing and it won't let him login before activating, that's the problem.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:36 am

Reinstall using another disk??

Something just don't sound right with that disk. I've gone in on my OEM files and added my key so it goes in without me punching it in but this sounds like someone attempted that and or something different and screwed up something.

I've got a Fresh XP pro ISO you can download if you need to.

mnosteele52 · Post by **mnosteele52** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:20 am

Philip wrote:Fresh HDD, just installing and it won't let him login before activating, that's the problem.

I've seen this on an occasion, usually it's an OEM pc such as HP and you use an original XP disc rather than the restore discs they provide. (A lot of times they have a restore partition on the hard drive but it does you no good if the drive dies.) All you have to do is choose the activate by phone option, give the MS employee from India your activation ID and they will give you a new installation ID, just make sure you answer the questions properly, such as why you are reinstalling XP and it is installed on only one pc.

If it's a Dell then you need a Dell XP disc, they are different. They are provided by Dell and look at the computers BIOS when installing realizing it's a Dell and never ask for the key. You can use any Dell XP disc on any Dell pc. If you try and use an original XP disc on a Dell, the key will not work and you cannot activate it.

Post by **Philip** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:30 am

I think mnosteele52 is right, it is some original OEM version of Windows XP. The problem is, the MS employee from India can't produce a valid activation ID without some numbers that are dependent on the OS detecting the motherboard/hardware correctly, and you can't install drivers for it without logging in. I suppose he needs a different CD, problem is he's in another city, lol. I'll work it out somehow, thanks for the suggestions.

Sava700 · Post by **Sava700** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:32 am

Yeah!! so this computer a HP or some pre built model??

If so all you need is a regular OEM disk if thats not what your using.. again I can provide you with a ISO of XP Pro SP3 if needed.

But also when you run the install make sure you have only one partition!

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:35 pm

okay thanks all, so i got everything updated, now how do i save some disc space by removing the un-install files, this is a 13 GB drive and i need to have as much free space as possible.

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:49 am

Open explorer and go to tools, folder options. Under the view tab set it to "show hidden files and folders" and uncheck the box for "Hide protected operating system files". Now go to your Windows folder and delete the blue $NTUninstall... folders. From what I have read you don't want to delete the $hf_mig$ folder. Not sure what happens but it supposed to be bad. Once you delete those folders you cannot un-install that windows update. I usually wait about a month after patch Tuesday to delete the last batch just in case Microsoft screws one up and or it messes up my system.

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:14 am

Oh after you are done you can go back and hide those files and folders. If you are happy with the way it's running and want even more space you could get rid of some of the system restore points. The quick and dirty way to do it is to turn system restore off and then back on. This will delete all the restore points and create a new one when you turn it back on. Another way to do it is to run disk cleanup. In there you have the option to delete all but the last restore point. I think you can clean out your temp folders too with disk cleanup. There is a bunch of stuff in there.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:23 pm

thanks The Dude, that saved me about 2GB space

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:05 pm

Most people would pft at 2 gig but when you only have 13 to start with its nice to get it back. Is that Sheryl Crow in your avatar?

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:06 pm

The Dude wrote:Most people would pft at 2 gig but when you only have 13 to start with its nice to get it back. Is that Sheryl Crow in your avatar?

yes

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:12 pm