raisin' hell like always

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mooseboy8X
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raisin' hell like always

Post by mooseboy8X »

well, i guess ill return from my out of town trip with more of my contraversial post. i just had to post this letter that i found in my mailbox. i didnt write it, but the facts are undeniable and if school shooting are to stop, we cant deny the 17 tons of elephant dung in the living room.
School Shootings and White Denial
Tim Wise, AlterNet
March 6, 2001


I can think of no other way to say this, so here goes: white people need
to pull our heads out of our collective a$$.


Two more white children are dead and thirteen are injured, and another
"nice" community is scratching its blonde head, utterly perplexed at how
a
school shooting the likes of the one yesterday in Santee, California
could
happen. After all, as the Mayor of the town said in an interview with
CNN:
"We're a solid town, a good town, with good kids, a good church-going
town...an All-American town." Yeah, well maybe that's the problem. I said
this after Columbine and no one listened so I'll say it again: white
people
live in an utter state of self-delusion. We think danger is black, brown
and poor, and if we can just move far enough away from "those people" in
the cities we'll be safe. If we can just find an "all-American" town,
life
will be better, because "things like this just don't happen here."

Well bullsh*t on that. In case you hadn't noticed, "here" is about the
only place these kinds of things do happen. Oh sure, there is plenty of
violence in urban communities and schools. But mass murder; wholesale
slaughter; take-a-gun-and-see-how-many-you can-kill kinda craziness seems
made for those safe places: the white suburbs or rural communities.


And yet once again, we hear the FBI insist there is no "profile" of a
school shooter. Come again? White boy after white boy after white boy,
with
very few exceptions to that rule (and none in the mass shooting
category),
decides to use their classmates for target practice, and yet there is no
profile? Imagine if all these killers had been black: would we still
hesitate to put a racial face on the perpetrators? Doubtful.


Indeed, if any black child in America -- especially in the mostly white
suburbs of Littleton, or Santee -- were to openly discuss their plans to
murder fellow students, as happened both at Columbine and now Santana
High,
you can bet your ass that somebody would have turned them in, and the
cops
would have beat a path to their doorstep. But when whites discuss their
murderous intentions, our stereotypes of what danger looks like cause us
to
ignore it -- they're just "talking" and won't really do anything. How
many
kids have to die before we rethink that nonsense? How many dazed and
confused parents, Mayors and Sheriffs do we have to listen to, describing
how "normal" and safe their community is, and how they just can't
understand what went wrong?


I'll tell you what went wrong and it's not TV, rap music, video games or
a
lack of prayer in school. What went wrong is that white Americans decided
to
ignore dysfunction and violence when it only affected other communities,
and
thereby blinded themselves to the inevitable creeping of chaos which
never
remains isolated too long. What affects the urban "ghetto" today will be
coming to a Wal-Mart near you tomorrow, and unless you address the
emptiness, pain, isolation and lack of hope felt by children of color
and
the poor, then don't be shocked when the support systems aren't there
for
your kids either.


What went wrong is that we allowed ourselves to be lulled into a false
sense of security by media representations of crime and violence that
portray both as the province of those who are anything but white like us.
We
ignore the warning signs, because in our minds the warning signs don't
live
in our neighborhood, but across town, in that place where we lock our
car
doors on the rare occasion we have to drive there. That false sense of
security -- the result of racist and classist stereotypes -- then gets
people killed. And still we act amazed.

But listen up my fellow white Americans: your children are no better, no
nicer, no more moral, no more decent than anyone else. Dysfunction is all
around you, whether you choose to recognize it or not.


According to the Centers for Disease Control, and Department of Health
and
Human Services, it is your children, and not those of the urban ghetto,
who
are most likely to use drugs. That's right: white high school students
are
seven times more likely than blacks to have used cocaine; eight times
more
likely to have smoked crack; ten times more likely to have used LSD and
seven times more likely to have used heroin. In fact, there are more
white
high school students who have used crystal methamphetamine (the most
addictive drug on the streets) than there are black students who smoke
cigarettes.

What's more, white youth ages 12-17 are more likely to sell drugs: 34%
more
likely, in fact than their black counterparts. And it is white youth who
are twice as likely to binge drink, and nearly twice as likely as blacks
to
drive drunk. And white males are twice as likely to bring a weapon to
school
as are black males.

And yet I would bet a valued body part that there aren't 100 white
people
in Santee, California, or most any other "nice" community who have ever
heard a single one of the statistics above. Even though they were
collected
by government agencies using these folks' tax money for the purpose.
Because the media doesn't report on white dysfunction.


A few years ago, U.S. News ran a story entitled: "A Shocking look at
blacks and crime." Yet never have they or any other news outlet discussed
the "shocking" whiteness of these shoot-em-ups. Indeed, every time media
commentators discuss the similarities in these crimes they mention that
the
shooters were boys, they were loners, they got picked on, but never do
they
seem to notice a certain highly visible melanin deficiency. Color-blind,
I
guess.


White-blind is more like it, as I figure these folks would spot color
mighty damn quick were some of it to stroll into their community.
Santee's
whiteness is so taken for granted by its residents that the Mayor, in
that
CNN interview, thought nothing of saying on the one hand that the town
was
82 percent white, but on the other hand that "this is America." Well that
isn't America, and it especially isn't California, where whites are only
half of the population. This is a town that is removed from America, and
yet its Mayor thinks they are the normal ones -- so much so that when
asked
about racial diversity, he replied that there weren't many of different
"ethni-tis-tities." Not a word. Not even close.


I'd like to think that after this one, people would wake up. Take note.
Rethink their stereotypes of who the dangerous ones are. But deep down, I
know better. The folks hitting the snooze button on this none-too-subtle
alarm are my own people, after all, and I know their blindness like the
back of my hand.


Tim Wise is a Nashville-based writer and activist and can be reached at
tjwise@mindspring.com <mailto:tjwise@mindspring.com>

i couldnt have sumed it up much better. except for a few "foul" language corrections i made, its akk tim Wise. if u wanna email the guy who wrote the article, theres his address.
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jayyy
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Post by jayyy »

[I'll tell you what went wrong and it's not TV, rap music, video games or
a lack of prayer in school. What went wrong is that white Americans decided to ignore dysfunction and violence when it only affected other communities, and thereby blinded themselves to the inevitable creeping of chaos which never remains isolated too long. What affects the urban "ghetto" today will be coming to a Wal-Mart near you tomorrow, and unless you address the emptiness, pain, isolation and lack of hope felt by children of color
and the poor, then don't be shocked when the support systems aren't there
for your kids either.
Damn right. A lot of americans refuse to spend a thin dime of their tax money on helping anyone. Then they act all shocked and confused when their country sucks.

then to make matters worse, they think they can just electrocute their problems away by giving the death sentence to 15-year-olds. Yeah, that should help lots, especially when most of these kids plan on shooting themselves when they're done killing everyone else anyway :rolleyes:
Funny is when a fat lady walks around while someone plays the tuba. Once you've seen that, you'll never laugh at anything else. Except maybe a skeleton dancing around while someone plays the xylophone, which is almost exactly the opposite of a fat lady walking around while someone plays the tuba. Well, a skeleton is the opposite of a fat lady. But is a xylophone the opposite of a tuba? History will decide.
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Post by Heaven_No »

Originally posted by jayyy:
Damn right. A lot of americans refuse to spend a thin dime of their tax money on helping anyone. Then they act all shocked and confused when their country sucks.

then to make matters worse, they think they can just electrocute their problems away by giving the death sentence to 15-year-olds. Yeah, that should help lots, especially when most of these kids plan on shooting themselves when they're done killing everyone else anyway :rolleyes:

Our country doesn't suck. We do oversell our problems to sell air time and news papers. Thug life has been sold to white teens and they fully bought into it. Have a problem, pass the ammo.
I cannot believe that boy in Florida is getting life for an accidental homocide (Mimicing the "Rock"). I will talk more later.

shant,
david
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jayyy
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Post by jayyy »

Originally posted by Heaven_No:

Thug life has been sold to white teens and they fully bought into it. Have a problem, pass the ammo.

I agree. But the whole concept of "thug life" comes from the ravaged inner city and the racist alienation of blacks to begin with. If conditions in the ghetto were tolerable, rap as we know it wouldn't exist. it wouldn't concieve of such a norm to sell in the first place.

I saw a good documentary on rap a few years ago that featured a former rapper from the 70's, dr.jekyll. he had put out the record when he was 16, gave up rap when he went to college and had since gone on to a successful, normal life. He described the song he did with his partner mr.hyde, "Its always funny when you've got money" as a product of the carter years. as hard as things were for him growing up, there was a basic understanding that a better life was in reach if he worked hard.

reflecting on more contemporary rap, namely method man's "I bring the Pain", he said "The kid these days are reagonomics rappers. they rap about pain because thats all they know."

listen to a song like MOP's "ante up", its literally an anthem for muggers. Sure, the media distorts things. But primarily all the media does is report whats happening, whether they play up the more newsworthy stories or not. Things like rap didn't pop up out of thin air. They're the products of poverty. Thats the price America pays for not taking care of itself, and by blaming its problems on minorities. You'll never hear rap like that coming out of canada because we take care of our own too much for any segment of our population to need to live that way.

[ 03-15-2001: Message edited by: jayyy ]
Funny is when a fat lady walks around while someone plays the tuba. Once you've seen that, you'll never laugh at anything else. Except maybe a skeleton dancing around while someone plays the xylophone, which is almost exactly the opposite of a fat lady walking around while someone plays the tuba. Well, a skeleton is the opposite of a fat lady. But is a xylophone the opposite of a tuba? History will decide.
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Post by Honz »

Originally posted by Heaven_No:
I cannot believe that boy in Florida is getting life for an accidental homocide (Mimicing the "Rock"). I will talk more later.

shant,
david
That "boy" didn't accidentally kill that girl he had every intent to do it. I'm sick of hearing that wrestling caused this death. No 14 year old kid in thier right mind doesn't know wrestling is fake. You should know better than to kick a a liitle girl in the ribs. It was the stupid ass kids fault not the WWF! People need to take responsibility their action instead of blaming other things like TV, music, or wrestling.
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Post by jayyy »

the kid was 12 at the time, and he has an IQ of about 60. I don't think the WWF did it either, but its insane to try him as an adult and give him life.
Funny is when a fat lady walks around while someone plays the tuba. Once you've seen that, you'll never laugh at anything else. Except maybe a skeleton dancing around while someone plays the xylophone, which is almost exactly the opposite of a fat lady walking around while someone plays the tuba. Well, a skeleton is the opposite of a fat lady. But is a xylophone the opposite of a tuba? History will decide.
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Post by Merc »

Man that is too much to read anyone want to sum it up?
We have seen their kind before. They're the heirs of all the murderous ideologies of the 20th century. By sacrificing human life to serve their radical visions, by abandoning every value except the will to power, they follow in the path of fascism, Nazism and totalitarianism. And they will follow that path all the way to where it ends in history's unmarked grave of discarded lies.
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Post by YARDofSTUF »

Originally posted by Merc:
Man that is too much to read anyone want to sum it up?
i'm with merc :)
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Post by Heaven_No »

Originally posted by Honz:
That "boy" didn't accidentally kill that girl he had every intent to do it. I'm sick of hearing that wrestling caused this death. No 14 year old kid in thier right mind doesn't know wrestling is fake. You should know better than to kick a a liitle girl in the ribs. It was the stupid ass kids fault not the WWF! People need to take responsibility their action instead of blaming other things like TV, music, or wrestling.
Mimicry... You doubt it exists? Look at fashion. Almost every youth was wearing baggy assed pants and caps.
Have you never seen boys wrestling like the "pros"? I see it in almost every neighborhood. Check out the number of hospital reports of wrestling accidents. Do you want to say that only morons get hurt? Well the average IQ in the US is 100... That would put about half the population in double digits.

As far as my generation is concerned... Pfft. Before punk, NO kid would have worn a mohawk and ripped jeans.

shant,
david
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Post by Heaven_No »

Originally posted by jayyy:

I agree. But the whole concept of "thug life" comes from the ravaged inner city and the racist alienation of blacks to begin with. If conditions in the ghetto were tolerable, rap as we know it wouldn't exist. it wouldn't concieve of such a norm to sell in the first place.

I saw a good documentary on rap a few years ago that featured a former rapper from the 70's, dr.jekyll. he had put out the record when he was 16, gave up rap when he went to college and had since gone on to a successful, normal life. He described the song he did with his partner mr.hyde, "Its always funny when you've got money" as a product of the carter years. as hard as things were for him growing up, there was a basic understanding that a better life was in reach if he worked hard.

reflecting on more contemporary rap, namely method man's "I bring the Pain", he said "The kid these days are reagonomics rappers. they rap about pain because thats all they know."

listen to a song like MOP's "ante up", its literally an anthem for muggers. Sure, the media distorts things. But primarily all the media does is report whats happening, whether they play up the more newsworthy stories or not. Things like rap didn't pop up out of thin air. They're the products of poverty. Thats the price America pays for not taking care of itself, and by blaming its problems on minorities. You'll never hear rap like that coming out of canada because we take care of our own too much for any segment of our population to need to live that way.

[ 03-15-2001: Message edited by: jayyy ]
Art, of course, is quite derivative of life. Still, you cannot sell unless you make it palatable for your audience.
Rap started as party music. I remember spinning for parties in college. I was more the punk/new wave guy, but rap was in the mix. Keith Sweat, GrandMaster Flash etc. were about fun as much as anything else. It was not until Public Enemy and NWA that Rap became "serious". Rebellion and alienation are products suited to the tastes on teens.

The news media sells drama. They paint stories dire for the effect. I don't buy the hyperbole.
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Post by 64bit »

Stupid alarmist article
I think I would rather live in the burbs than in the innercity any day of the week. This article probably comes from a person not to familar with actual day to day street life. Its all about gettin over in the city and to have to put up with a random school shooting every now and again rather than "working" just to get down the street I'll take it.
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Post by Gaming-Module »

Well, I'll admit it, journalists are going for the brass ring with these over dramatized stories, and black crime gets ratings and sells papers in white communities because the audience eats it up.

But don't always blame the reporters, there are owners that pressure editors and editors have the last word as far as reporters are concerned. It's true, an editor nine times out of ten will probably choose the black crime story over the white crime story.

A scared audience is a captive audience, and that means guaranteed viewer/reader(ship). Something that the media will never let go of.
striderf1

Post by striderf1 »

HA. I laugh at the dumbness of anyone that believes such a racist comment.

Crime has no racial barriers, black people can stab people just as good as white people, and mexicans can do a drive by shooting just as good as a white or black gang.

If you believe what that article said, please think hard about it- your just agreeing to a racing comment.

a fist-ful of white kids decide to let out the pain and shoot people. their is something wrong with that, they shouldn't be shooting people. but that doesn't mean that white people are the only messed up people out, it just means that we can afford the guns. their is a ton of stabbing in this country done by black people, but it isn't reported because it is usually one or 2 people that are stabbed (wounded or killed) and they are much more frequent.

in all the interviews on tv with the victims and students of the columbine kids, they had intervied students. a particular student said he used to make fun of the kids and said that a lot of his friends made fun of the kis (the shooters that is). that kid was black. the shooters shouldn't have shot people, but the kids in the school also shouldn't have been harassing them.

about the drug comment- where the hell did you get those statistics? a sh*t load of white kids do drugs. percentage wise, I'm sure blacks are just as likely to do drugs. drugs are everywhere, and it doesn't matter what race you are, all races do drugs. I don't think their is any real evidence to say otherwise. the validy of a report must be seriously questioned when the report says that one race is more prone to doing drugs more than another race.

and mooseboy- aren't you black too? I don't think your more prone to commit violence than a white person or vice-versa, but if you are black than that explains why your posting this(which should be ovious to everyone).
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Post by Heaven_No »

I am not looking to shoot the messenger. Just be wary of what he is saying.

shant,
david
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Post by Roody »

The way I look at it is like this. Crimes can be committed by all races, as can any good deeds etc.. Racism happens in this company to some more then others, but it exists on all levels and not just towards groups that are usually mentioned with racist acts happening too.

The only way the world will get better and heal itself towards this awful problem of racism is to attempt to evaluate every situation from the situation itself and not the color of skin that the person who does something has.

its ok for us to be different, what isnt okay is for those differences to tear us apart. just a thought.
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Post by mooseboy8X »

Originally posted by striderf1:
HA. I laugh at the dumbness of anyone that believes such a racist comment.

Crime has no racial barriers, black people can stab people just as good as white people, and mexicans can do a drive by shooting just as good as a white or black gang.

If you believe what that article said, please think hard about it- your just agreeing to a racing comment.

a fist-ful of white kids decide to let out the pain and shoot people. their is something wrong with that, they shouldn't be shooting people. but that doesn't mean that white people are the only messed up people out, it just means that we can afford the guns. their is a ton of stabbing in this country done by black people, but it isn't reported because it is usually one or 2 people that are stabbed (wounded or killed) and they are much more frequent.

in all the interviews on tv with the victims and students of the columbine kids, they had intervied students. a particular student said he used to make fun of the kids and said that a lot of his friends made fun of the kis (the shooters that is). that kid was black. the shooters shouldn't have shot people, but the kids in the school also shouldn't have been harassing them.

about the drug comment- where the hell did you get those statistics? a sh*t load of white kids do drugs. percentage wise, I'm sure blacks are just as likely to do drugs. drugs are everywhere, and it doesn't matter what race you are, all races do drugs. I don't think their is any real evidence to say otherwise. the validy of a report must be seriously questioned when the report says that one race is more prone to doing drugs more than another race.

and mooseboy- aren't you black too? I don't think your more prone to commit violence than a white person or vice-versa, but if you are black than that explains why your posting this(which should be ovious to everyone).

wtf is that suposed to mean? what "explains why im posting". im just posting because middle/white america dosent seem to see any thing wrong with these boys. they just seem to "snap". the waring signs are always present, these are middle class "suburban kids", everyone seems to think that theyre joking or that it will never happen. the mentality is that those type of crimes of only happen in the ghetto.the fbi and pshcy analyst say there seems to be no profile, but there seems to be a hell of a lot of coincidences that occur in these school shootings.

as far as the drug thing are concerened, all those statistics come from the center for disease control. i looked for stastistics, but its hard to find teen drug usage statistics by race. im more than sure their accurate. i have even heard bill maher report on figures such as those.
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Post by Blitz »

There is Only One Thing That Will Fix this Racism/School Shooting Problem:

TAKE AWAY THE 2ND AMMENDMENT!
WTF? :mad: U guys have the right to bear firearms?? Why the hell would any civilized nation allow their people to carry around guns??

U guys are so hypocritical! (I mean this in general, not u "speedguide guys")
U complain about school shootings and crime, and @ the same time u still continue to allow your people to purchase guns!??! Obviously kids are gonna be able to get a handle on firearms with an ammendment as stupid as this.

Thats the difference between Canada and America. People say Canada is peaceful and have nice people. There are a lot of "mean" people and crazy idiots just like in the States, prob the same pct, but the reason why we are so peaceful is cuz we can't buy GUNS

So its a lot harder for a person to committ school violence with a knife, then it is for a gun.

U.S is a great country, but thats the only thing I hate about it, the Firearm 'ammendment'

Come on, wouldn't u rather be able to walk in the streets @ night without worrying about someone shooting u?

Remove the damn ammendment. Maybe 200 years ago people needed guns to stay alive and support their family, but this is the year 2001, u don't need guns to survive.
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Post by SeedOfChaos »

Now we've got it all in one thread.... hs-violence, racism, drugs, gun control, bashing the media.... I wonder when religion will come into this debate... :p

Without guns, no people get shot. But you can't simply take them all away. FACT. So we (non-US people) can bash the second amendment all we want, removing the amendment won't solve any problem.

I have a solution to all these problems.... get rid of mankind. Let all nukes detonate, and after 100,000 years life will start again. The earth has been through worse than mankind.

I guarantee you, you won't see a troubled human being again.

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striderf1

Post by striderf1 »

Originally posted by Sox:
Blaming society,or playing the race card in ANY incident like that is laughable.No one but the little bas**** who pulled the trigger is responsible.Let him take responsibility for his action.
I grew up poor,parents seperated,and had access to guns if I really wanted one.Not once did it go through my mind"this sucks,I think I'll go hose down my classmates".
I agree. it isn't a racial thing, as much as some black people like to think it is.
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Post by FunK »

Just remember that I can go downtown and buy a used gun (stolen) for allot less money than a gun store. All without the cool down period and without any kind of background check. The 2nd ammendment isn't the cause of violence or gun related fatalities.
Crazy / ignorant people are the cause.

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Post by Roody »

Originally posted by Sox:
Blaming society,or playing the race card in ANY incident like that is laughable.No one but the little bas**** who pulled the trigger is responsible.Let him take responsibility for his action.
I grew up poor,parents seperated,and had access to guns if I really wanted one.Not once did it go through my mind"this sucks,I think I'll go hose down my classmates".

I agree with you Sox. People should start accepting responsibility instead of always trying to find someone to blame. if someone says something racist to you no matter what your color if you turn around and blast a race in general terms etc then you are only doing the same thing you have cried out against.

Everybody has been wronged for some reason or another. I applaud you Sox because you didnt use the excuse of a rough childhood to rest on your laurels. You could have cried out how the system or people cheated you , but instead you chose to make the best of your situation.

Learning to turn the other cheek isnt easy,..i struggle with it myself, but if the time comes where we as people can learn to not always look for revenge when someone wrongs us then we can get through all of this B.S. If I walk outside and a person of another race or gender abuses or treats me bad that is unfortunate, but to stereotype a particular group of people just because 1,10 or even a 1,000 people do something is wrong. This world is filled with a tons of people from all kinds of races and alot of them mean good and are good.

I believe the world is getting to sensitive to things. People seem to think there is always some bad evil meaning behind everything we do for example....a movie came out years ago called "White Men Can't Jump". That in itself could be deemed a general and racist statement if a person chose to look at it that way and Im sure some have. Speaking for myself I am white and I could care less what was meant by that. I found that movie to be funny and Im a white male. Im secure enough in myself to understand that that isnt necessarily a true statement about myself or other white men.

My point to this extremely long post is this... racism is something that idiots do. its wrong and it hurts people, but to turn around and stereotype a group of people because they did something to someone is just as bad as them stereotyping someone else.

The best way to handle this situation is to not attack back. thats hard to do i know, but in the long run that just may be the best way to end a lifelong problem.

Oh and for the record I wasnt meaning you Sox when i used references to you etc... i applaud your post and was just using "you" as a general term to mean everyone. take care :)
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Post by Juggernaut »

Originally posted by SeedOfChaos:
Now we've got it all in one thread.... hs-violence, racism, drugs, gun control, bashing the media.... I wonder when religion will come into this debate... :p

Without guns, no people get shot. But you can't simply take them all away. FACT. So we (non-US people) can bash the second amendment all we want, removing the amendment won't solve any problem.

I have a solution to all these problems.... get rid of mankind. Let all nukes detonate, and after 100,000 years life will start again. The earth has been through worse than mankind.

I guarantee you, you won't see a troubled human being again.

Cheers,
Ronald

I'm with you. Humans believe they are all god's of the earth and can do and treat it anyway they see fit.

Humans are an animal. As much as they think they are so much more evolved, biologically and chemically, they are animals. If a dog kills a little boy, that dog is taken and destroyed. A human does it, and they try to blame it on society, or drugs, or what have you. The bottom-line is, humans have violent tendencies; they have the urge to kill and to survive.

If humans were so much more sophisticated, evolved and have more of a "though-process" than "animals," why do we continue to make bigger and badder weapons to destroy on another? Animals kill to eat and to survive. Humans kill because they had a bad day.

It is in the human nature to destroy itself. If it wasn't, why would there be nukes, guns, grenades, etc? Do we need that much firepower to kill a wolf that may be hungry? No, we need that much firepower to annihilate other humans and the Earth.
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Post by striderf1 »

Originally posted by mooseboy8X:

wtf is that suposed to mean? what "explains why im posting". im just posting because middle/white america dosent seem to see any thing wrong with these boys. they just seem to "snap". the waring signs are always present, these are middle class "suburban kids", everyone seems to think that theyre joking or that it will never happen. the mentality is that those type of crimes of only happen in the ghetto.the fbi and pshcy analyst say there seems to be no profile, but there seems to be a hell of a lot of coincidences that occur in these school shootings.

as far as the drug thing are concerened, all those statistics come from the center for disease control. i looked for stastistics, but its hard to find teen drug usage statistics by race. im more than sure their accurate. i have even heard bill maher report on figures such as those.
people don't ignore warning signs in white middle kids, where did you get that idea? my brother goes to a catholic middle school, he's in the 8th grade. a kid in his grade said "I'm going to kill you if you ever say that again" and that kid was suspended for a week and is currently going under psyciatric treatment, even though he was only kidding. their is no white denial, white people know theirs a lot of messed up white kids, I have no idea where you are getting all these crazy ideas. sure theirs probably white people who think they are the greatest and that are racist, but you can't hold that stereotype true for all white people

and you definetly can't come to any conclutions with such little evidence. 10 kids out of 300 million people in america shoot people, and your coming to a definate conclution with just those statistics? I don't think their is anything ironic that they are all white, because a lot of americans are white.
as far as the drug thing are concerened, all those statistics come from the center for disease control. i looked for stastistics, but its hard to find teen drug usage statistics by race. im more than sure their accurate. i have even heard bill maher report on figures such as those
ok, your saying they come from the center for disease control, then your saying they don't. then your saying they are accurate, because you think so. I don't think so. just because one person agree's with you, doesn't mean it is accurate (its called free press, they can say what they want to say). no one has ever presented any real evidence to say that white kids do more drugs than other kids

[ 03-16-2001: Message edited by: striderf1 ]
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Blitz
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Post by Blitz »

Originally posted by SeedOfChaos:
Now we've got it all in one thread.... hs-violence, racism, drugs, gun control, bashing the media.... I wonder when religion will come into this debate... :p

Without guns, no people get shot. But you can't simply take them all away. FACT. So we (non-US people) can bash the second amendment all we want, removing the amendment won't solve any problem.

I have a solution to all these problems.... get rid of mankind. Let all nukes detonate, and after 100,000 years life will start again. The earth has been through worse than mankind.

I guarantee you, you won't see a troubled human being again.

Cheers,
Ronald

I totally agree with u dude, but realistically, removing the 2nd ammendment is a lot easier/realistic than letting all nukes detonate.... :D :D :D

[ 03-16-2001: Message edited by: Blitz ]
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Post by Sox »

Blaming society,or playing the race card in ANY incident like that is laughable.No one but the little bas**** who pulled the trigger is responsible.Let him take responsibility for his action.
I grew up poor,parents seperated,and had access to guns if I really wanted one.Not once did it go through my mind"this sucks,I think I'll go hose down my classmates".
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Post by Heaven_No »

Originally posted by striderf1:
I agree. it isn't a racial thing, as much as some black people like to think it is.

The jist of mooseboy's rant, as I read it.
When the violence reaches white suburbia, then America will take notice.

I get touchy when the non-US start taking their shots at the Red-White and Blue. Mind you, not that I am a great patriot. I am painfully aware of this country's shortcomings. However, aside from some friendly ribbing of our northern neighbors, I do not see bashing of other countries.
(A little cheese to go with your whine, david!)

That aside. As I grew older, I realized more and more, just how much I was influenced by our culture. Even my rebellion and indignation was prepackage. Is it all simple psychology or is it all some Rube Goldberg device that I am wondering about? I feel that even as individualistic as I deem myself to be, I am just another lamb at the teet of the machine.
So now the dispondant wear trenchcoats and shoot their classmates. I though a blue Mohawk was dangerous. Sh!t, what's next?

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Post by Heaven_No »

Jayyy,

It is kind of a chicken vs. egg thing. The entertainment media reflects the "real" world, which is in turn is influenced by the entertainment media.
I would argue that Britain has similar problems. Washington DC does not have bombs going off like London. The Brits are also somewhat lead by fashion/entertainment trends (which the US often apes later on..)
Is the gang violence with respect to rappers all that much different than the la cosa nostra? The areas of urban devastation in the US are HUGE. In Philly, DC, NYC, Newark and Camden (The cities near me), the level of poverty and and urban decay is appalling. "Real" art is about pain. These spots in the US have pain to spare. The story the tell do not apply to the suburbanites.... Visiting the zoo does not make you Tarzan., but bored, drama starved white boys have no problem trying to act the role.

BTW. It is not that I am in any real disagreement with you. I look at things at different angles

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Post by mooseboy8X »

Originally posted by Heaven_No:

The jist of mooseboy's rant, as I read it.
When the violence reaches white suburbia, then America will take notice.
first i didnt write that article. the author did. i have not blamed society or played the race card. in fact i did not even write the word race or blame the media. i have not blamed anyone. in fact what you wrote is actually a synopsis of that article. thats exactly what the article is about. if some folks were offended that just happened to be white, hey, thats life. im offended by religious people but i dont say they play the "jesus card".

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
as far as the drug thing are concerened, all those statistics come from the center for disease control. i looked for stastistics, but its hard to find teen drug usage statistics by race. im more than sure their accurate. i have even heard bill maher report on figures such as those
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted by striderf1
ok, your saying they come from the center for disease control, then your saying they don't. then your saying they are accurate, because you think so. I don't think so. just because one person agree's with you, doesn't mean it is accurate (its called free press, they can say what they want to say). no one has ever presented any real evidence to say that white kids do more drugs than other kids


thats not what i said. i said it was hard to find teen drug usage thats demographs by race. its easy finding teen drug usage statistics, on what drugs teens use, how often they use them. what age do they satrt using them, etc. its hard if not impossible to find stastitics on drug usage by race. this is about the closest that ive come to seeing them.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/teendrugs990818.html

i really dont care and gain nothing if white teenagers use more drugs than blacks. it really makes no difference to me and proves no point. people who cant handle the responsibility of drugs should use them.

god damn, i just had to add this one. i think it says it all. lol
http://www.nogop.com/teen_drug_use_soars_30.htm
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Post by jayyy »

I don't agree that the media and the entertainment industry are to blame for everything you're seeing now. I think it gives them more credit than they deserve. America is the only first world nation with these kinds of societal problems, and its the only nation that generates that kind of music and destructive culture. Its a symptom, not the cause. People watch holywood movies and play video games all over the world, but the US is still teh only wealthy nation where you'll see this kind of thing on a regular basis.


I've got a friend who was down to south america with his wife visiting some wealthy friends, and they walked around with armed guards. you couldn't count on the police or social norms to protect you. What you have in countries like that is a complete social breakdown. If the sociey doesn't take care of itself it rots from the inside like cancer.

in admittedly small pockets, you're seeing that happening in the most ravaged parts of the US inplaces like compton and neighborhoods in new york. Two of the biggest rappers of the 90's were assasinated, one by a member of the bloods and one by the crips. Their respective record labels had hired the gangs as security when in LA, and the warfare between the gangs spread into their business dealings. Its like living in the third world.
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Post by Heaven_No »

Originally posted by mooseboy8X:
first i didnt write that article. the author did. i have not blamed society or played the race card. in fact i did not even write the word race or blame the media.
You are correct. It was not your rant. I apologize for the error. I would point out, ike TonyT when he posts his Clinton bashes, you will take some responsibilty for what you choose to post.

Still, I do somewhat agree with the article.
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