DSL and phone line. What should I use?

heathcom · Post by **heathcom** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:04 pm

I just signed up for DSL. Verizon just put a new line from the pole to my new house. Im curious if I should run a standard phone line (red, green,yellow,black) from the local hardware store to a jack, or should I go with something heavier gauge and stranded for better connection?

mccoffee · Post by **mccoffee** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:43 pm

I Was told that if you went with cat 5se or cat6 it would be overkill i heard 5se works fine though too.

heathcom · Post by **heathcom** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:42 pm

You dont mean cat5 from the phone box to the jack do you? From the modem to the lan connection that makes sense, but from the phone box..........?

mccoffee · Post by **mccoffee** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:56 pm

http://www.broadbandnuts.com/index.php?page=dslwire1

heathcom · Post by **heathcom** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:12 pm

Thats perfect!! Thanks for that info. You saved me alot of time and hopefully bandwidth

Kip Patterson · Post by **Kip Patterson** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 6:03 am

DON'T follow those instructions!

They are absolutely wrong.

Install cat 5 cable. Use ONE pair, any pair (both wires in a pair have the same color, one with a white stripe). Unwind the twist as llittle as possible to make the connections.

Parallelling the other three pairs creates an impedance mismatch that will cause reflections and interfere with the signal.

heathcom · Post by **heathcom** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:37 am

Uggh. So, pick TWO colors, use the solid and stripe of each color, ignore the other wires, but follow the rest of the instructions?

jim1133 · Post by **jim1133** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:10 pm

The individual pairs in CAT 5 are twisted. The Blue/Blue-White are considered pair #1

heathcom · Post by **heathcom** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:40 am

Looking at ONE pair of wires in cat5 cable, doesnt look any different than phone line. Does it have less impurities or something?

Kip Patterson · Post by **Kip Patterson** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:46 am

It has more twists, hence less leakage into and out of the line. Not important at phone frequencies, but starts to be significant at DSL frequencies, even more so as you get to 10/100/1000 Mbit Ethernet.

heathcom · Post by **heathcom** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:12 pm

just like rolling your own, more twists, less leakage

heathcom · Post by **heathcom** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:36 pm

Well, I tried the 1 pair of cat5 cable from the NID to the phone jack, and used a 1 foot phone line from the jack to the modem. My speed has dropped from an average of 675 down to 650. I tried a few of the registry patches, and optimizers but no difference. I am almost exactly 1 mile from the transfer station and I have new phone lines from the pole to the NID which is also brand new. Any ideas?

dannjr · Post by **dannjr** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:53 am

After testing with the Cat5 wire connected stripe leads all together and the Cat5 only using the Blue and white leads The impeadance with all of them together got better RF noise dropped and DB levels got better. It wasnt as if someone put a load coil on the line. but more on that near the end.

The other problem that happened back in the late 70s is that some Telco companies like Ameritech used an extreemly small gauge wire from the pole to the home. It was never sheilded. IF you have that thin exsisting line the DSL would have a slower connection and a possible problem.
Some homes still have that and they see lower speeds. BUT When the Cat5 is twisted together solid to solid, stripe to stripe it added more copper to the line helping lower the problems.

If your home had a New line put in with the New wiring primarly blue / white more than likely you could get away with Cat3 twisted Or if your home still had some of that real old cloth covered wire it could be even better than the Cat5 or Cat3

The guide is in the prosess of being updated in the next month or so with all the added notes at the end on how to deal with the differances in the Impeadance levels Basically what to look for and what way to use the Cat5 line in.

All the test had been chked with a handheld and handheld scope along with a line meter. The guide is being updated for the second time with a DSL specialist from SBC. We used a combo of his equiptment along with mine.
We also ran a short test from the CO to the inside connection point...

At this point I cant give out location or any of the other info other than to say thousands have ran that homerun only a handful have said anything about a problem with it.
DB levels average at 28 stable when done right. If you want all the DB levels I can get them I just dont feal like pulling out the equiptment right now. I can even give the exact connection rate

Note: most the inside filters should probably Not be used outside..
Besides not all wiring is created equil as I and the boys from SBC have been finding out..
The best one to date Covad putting in a whole sets of trays all over the place that they forgot to wire.. OOOps did I say that.

Look, on paper what Kip is saying is true.

But DSL is still being tested in differant ways and differant levels to increase the levels to get better speeds over two wire. Just keep in mind I dont just know people in SBC but I know bean counters and VP's in R&D along with LAB mice. I knew them before there was DSL. Actually I knew some of them when there was still a manual switch board. I grew up with these people Now thats real scary..

Generally if speed drops its due to a leaky filter or mismatched wire in the home going back to the receivers(clicks and such white noise)

Also if you want a cheap peice of equiptment that can test your line quality for about $60 you can get a ZOOM router/bridge.
It isnt perfect and not nessassarly what I use for testing
But youll get all DB levels at a glance.
Plus your Connection Rate
Set VCI - VPI custom kbps rates
MAC and even "Gateways" through it..
ATM MTU and more.
Cheap yet effective when talking with a Tech support person..
Actually I do use it on ocassions when I need a quick read when I know the line is clean. Or a quick shot of a line when a tech is lieing to me. Like last week with Earlick.

Also something not mentioned speed can be a issue from things like leaky monitors, older computers with static run amuck 900Mhz and Ghz phone bases in the same room. Beleve it or not a toaster oven. A old laser printer bad or malfunctioning dimmer switch. bad line quality from the electric..

Anyway keep a open mind on DSL. Wait till you load balance two DSL lines and add wireless then it gets fun

Thanks

Dannjr

Peace:
Sorry dont know when I can make it back in this thread. Burried with work