Do you worship God???

[Roody]

Originally posted by Norm
How about giving some opinions of some of the points I've brought up.

1. God killing innocent people because one man stood against him (The Pharoah story)

lol I really am getting messy with the typing (have to keep editing too much now), If you don't mind have a look through the thread for more of my points for discussion.

The pharoah story? hmm for some reason this isnt coming to me right away. are we talking about Noah and the flood here? I am sorry Norm, my mind isnt to clear. Let me know if I am thinking of the right thing and I will answer your question.

[Roody]

Im calling it a night everyone. Let me know if I am thinking of the right thing Norm and I will respond to your question tomorrow.

[Norm]

Originally posted by Roody
The pharoah story? hmm for some reason this isnt coming to me right away. are we talking about Noah and the flood here? I am sorry Norm, my mind isnt to clear. Let me know if I am thinking of the right thing and I will answer your question.

It was a movie I saw, so it may not be exactly as in the Bible, but it a Pharoah, and Mosses. The parting of the Red sea thing.

God took the first born of every family because the Pharoah refused to give Mosses and his followers their freedom.

I never understood how a God who is supposed to be compasionate could kill innocen kids, and have their families suffer, all because one man (Pharoah) stood against him.

To me that is like a Saddam Hussein. (It's in the earlier part of this thread)

[JawZ]

Originally posted by nepenthe
Think of yourself as a caveman with no explanation for the mechanics of nature or the creation of the world. With the tendancy to anthropomorphize, this "force of nature" would be of human form and serve as the father and provider of all things. I do not see it as alien, save as the manner in which the concept developed.

Great question.


david

I guess that is the million dollar question that we'll never truly have the answer to....did man create the idea of a God or was it introduced by a God?

I do find it amazing that people who believe in God don't believe in the possibility of the existence of alien life....and the same people who believe in aliens....don't believe in the possibility that a God exists. What does that say about us? It says that we believe in what we want to believe in regardless of the facts or lack thereof.

My take on God is this: Cool. I hope there is one or many. It is the same as my viewpoint on alien life...cool...I hope there is someone else out there. I won't discredit either idea.

I'm sitting here just pondering my thoughts.

Why do we love eachother? Why do we feel sorrow over the loss of a loved one? Live, breed, die...why? What is our purpose? Why can't my little girl speak in full sentences but, when I ask her for a kiss she gives me one?

[knightmare]

people who u think are pretty intelligent say there is no God,

Its written--"only a fool says there is no God".

Guess we truely are in the last days, when men have become so wise-they are fools...

[Gandalf]

Yes, I worship God

[Norm]

Originally posted by knightmare
people who u think are pretty intelligent say there is no God,

Its written--"only a fool says there is no God".

Guess we truely are in the last days, when men have become so wise-they are fools...

Only if you believe in that particular God, and His words. There are other Gods to consider as well as that one.

For the record I didn't say there was no God, I said I don't believe there is one, or any.
Hard thing to prove though, just as it's hard to prove death really exists until you see it for yourself. Death could just be another strange form of life.

It is also written "A fool is only a fool if fooled"
I know, cause I wrote it

[Roody]

Originally posted by Norm
It was a movie I saw, so it may not be exactly as in the Bible, but it a Pharoah, and Mosses. The parting of the Red sea thing.

God took the first born of every family because the Pharoah refused to give Mosses and his followers their freedom.

I never understood how a God who is supposed to be compasionate could kill innocen kids, and have their families suffer, all because one man (Pharoah) stood against him.

To me that is like a Saddam Hussein. (It's in the earlier part of this thread)

I need a little refresher on the whole story Norm before I can make a true response. Ill read it again and reply after work today.

Thx for the patience.

[Prey521]

Originally posted by Norm
How about giving some opinions of some of the points I've brought up.

1. God killing innocent people because one man stood against him (The Pharoah story)

lol I really am getting messy with the typing (have to keep editing too much now), If you don't mind have a look through the thread for more of my points for discussion.

The people of Israel were the chosen people. God chose Moses to lead the Israeilites to the Promised Land (Canaan).....Pharoah (Moses Step-Brother) Refused to let free the Israelite slaves. Many plagues from God had been brought upon Egypt so that the Pharoah indeed would let the Israelites go. The final plague, Passover, where the Angel of Death came upon them and killed the first born of all those whom did not have the blood of a sacrificial lambover the door, came and killed the firstborn, including Pharoahs. This was the straw that broke Pharoahs back and he finally let the Israelites go........Pharoah had many chances to let them go, he refused and he and his country were punished....God is a just and fair God, but he is also All-Consuming Fire (Hebrews 12:29 - For our God is a consuming fire) a.k.a. Don't Mess With Him :2cool:

[Norm]

Originally posted by Prey521
The people of Israel were the chosen people. God chose Moses to lead the Israeilites to the Promised Land (Canaan).....Pharoah (Moses Step-Brother) Refused to let free the Israelite slaves. Many plagues from God had been brought upon Egypt so that the Pharoah indeed would let the Israelites go. The final plague, Passover, where the Angel of Death came upon them and killed the first born of all those whom did not have the blood of a sacrificial lambover the door, came and killed the firstborn, including Pharoahs. This was the straw that broke Pharoahs back and he finally let the Israelites go........Pharoah had many chances to let them go, he refused and he and his country were punished....God is a just and fair God, but he is also All-Consuming Fire (Hebrews 12:29 - For our God is a consuming fire) a.k.a. Don't Mess With Him :2cool:

So God killed kids becasue the Pharoah was a jerk?

I can't worship that type of God. IMHO he's messed up as bad as Saddam Hussein is.

If He would give up His super powers for a second, I'd take Him on with my bare hands.

[Norm]

I really can't understand why anyone would worship this God. Could someone explain it to me.

1. He kills en masse using WOMD (super powers) Floods, disease, what else?

2. He creates things designed to sin, then punishes them for sinning. What kind of cruel maniac is HE?

3. He needs to be loved and worshiped above all other Gods (If He ruled Iraq, I bet His picture would be all over the place too)

4. He's been punishing the human race ever since He created it because of 2 peoples actions.

5. He knows all, sees all, and hears all, as well He is everywhere at once. Yet He watches the suffering, knowing it was coming, and does litte or nothing to stop it.

6. He has the power to intervene in these situations listed above, and He could rectify them all without killing en masse, but He chooses the latter.

Now, can someone tell me why they would love a God like this?
No one would love a man like this.

Please, I have wanted answers to this for years, and never get one that makes any logical sense. I have talked to Gods helpers (Preists etc) I have talked to His followers, and I have called God Himself out to explain this to me. So far He hasn't responded.

Keep in mind that, if He exists, He also created me, and knows I'm here asking. And He expects His followers to spread His word. He is watching all of you, so don't let Him down. Explain it to me so that it makes sense.

Make Him proud of you.

[Ghosthunter]

You bring up some very good points Norm.


That is why I do not believe in Judeo/Christian ideals, and do not believe the bible is accurate


I am a spiritualist which makes so much more sense to me:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/5927/sbaseNF.htm

[mountainman]

Originally posted by jeremyboycool
Do you worship God??

Whats your point ?

LOL

[mountainman]

Originally posted by Norm
I really can't understand why anyone would worship this God. Could someone explain it to me.

1. He kills en masse using WOMD (super powers) Floods, disease, what else?

2. He creates things designed to sin, then punishes them for sinning. What kind of cruel maniac is HE?

3. He needs to be loved and worshiped above all other Gods (If He ruled Iraq, I bet His picture would be all over the place too)

4. He's been punishing the human race ever since He created it because of 2 peoples actions.

5. He knows all, sees all, and hears all, as well He is everywhere at once. Yet He watches the suffering, knowing it was coming, and does litte or nothing to stop it.

6. He has the power to intervene in these situations listed above, and He could rectify them all without killing en masse, but He chooses the latter.

Now, can someone tell me why they would love a God like this?
No one would love a man like this.

Please, I have wanted answers to this for years, and never get one that makes any logical sense. I have talked to Gods helpers (Preists etc) I have talked to His followers, and I have called God Himself out to explain this to me. So far He hasn't responded.

Keep in mind that, if He exists, He also created me, and knows I'm here asking. And He expects His followers to spread His word. He is watching all of you, so don't let Him down. Explain it to me so that it makes sense.

Make Him proud of you.

Good questions. However, if you don't have faith in Him, than you'll never find these answers and I don't believe that he'll ever answer them for you. You must SEEK answers... not DEMAND answers.

Also, I would not try to answer them either because I know what a "conversation" would be like with you about these types of things. LOL

[Zilog B]

LET MY PEOPLES GO!

LOL

What movie was that from?

[Ghosthunter]

Originally posted by mountainman
Good questions. However, if you don't have faith in Him, than you'll never find these answers and I don't believe that he'll ever answer them for you. You must SEEK answers... not DEMAND answers.

Also, I would not try to answer them either because I know what a "conversation" would be like with you about these types of things. LOL

How do you seek answers without asking?

[EvilAjax]

Of course I believe in God... who do you believe in? Your Biology teachers?

WTF

Politics and God contrast eachother... SHOULD not be compared... but I know what you're trying to say. Some people at this board are holeasses. Don't worry about it.

Hmm... who put us here on this Earth? Who knows? Only God does... ask him... if you believe, he will answer. Otherwise God wont bother... so screw you.

I love God.... and the word that comes before cat...
*hint*-two syllables, and rhymes with stussy.

I hope you don't lose me
there's a man called God sayin "choose me"
the confused be askin "who's he?"
I reply with "the one responsible for creating P-ssy"

there's nothing better... no verdad Prey?

[koldchillah]

Has anyone taken the faith test?

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html

My mother's family is die hard christian. My father's family is die hard Catholic. I have a jewish uncle, my father in-law is completely athiest, my mother in-law is jewish by blood but proclaims agnostic & my wife is athiest..

All these different religious philosophies in my family and not one of them had their faith listed as their most likely religion. It's interesting to see how closely matched our beliefs are to the faith we pursue in comparison to how closely they match other faiths..

the test of course means nothing, but its interesting nonetheless.

[EvilAjax]

IMO Atheists are ignorant and self-minded fools. Not your wife though

[torsten]

So is anyone gonna try to answer Norm's questions?

Mountainman, I think your comment was more of a non-anwser. Kinda like someone who claims their cat can talk, yet when people ask for proof, the response is, well, he won't talk to you because he knows you don't believe he can talk. You can excuse anything with that kind of circular logic.

Those kind of questions are the things I was criticised for asking as a little kid. Still haven't heard religious people try to give an answer without evasion. People are simply afraid to address them.

I believe a higher power exists, but those questions and the avoidance / excuse making / subject changing they cause is why I can't be a fundamentalist.

People who refuse to consider them are shutting their minds. If a religion demands that, what kind of credibility does it have.

[64bit]

Originally posted by torsten
I believe a higher power exists

Why? And how did you become "aware" of this Higher Power. Just searching for the truth myself no flames.

[torsten]

Originally posted by 64bit
Why? And how did you become "aware" of this Higher Power. Just searching for the truth myself no flames.

No flames taken and none given. It's a totally legit question.

Why? To know (or at least get closer to the truth) could hold the solution to many of life's dilemmas and give meaning to one's existence. How? It's just a culmination of years of personal observation and trying to analyze all that I've read and heard. Remember though, I said believe, which is very different from "prove" or "know." It goes in the "seems very likely" category. So unfortunately I can't give you that elusive "truth" you speak of. I try to keep an open mind to anything anyone wants to add, positive or negative. I don't think this is the kind of thing people should be arrogant about in either direction.

[Ghosthunter]

Originally posted by 64bit
Why? And how did you become "aware" of this Higher Power. Just searching for the truth myself no flames.

earlier in this thread I gave my reasons why I do.

[koldchillah]

Originally posted by EvilAjax
IMO Atheists are ignorant and self-minded fools. Not your wife though

Oh, so you talkin' smack 'bout my father in-law?!.. j/k
He was raised catholic and went to strict catholic school his entire life in Argentina, but one day he up and left and backpacked through South America all the way up through Central America stopping to live with the Incan descendants near the ruins in Peru for some time. Having experienced this and given his faith much thought he seemed to realize how biased and prejudice he was raised into being.

being as open minded as I am, I understand exactly what your saying b/c I know a few people who would agree, BUT (with respect) if you think about it, its a very bold & hate-filled statement b/c you just placed yourself "above" someone else by judging their state of beliefs (some religions require God to be the only one allowed to judge people) which is called "prejudice" and is the very reason why there is so much hate in the world. I can understand that people have a hard time seeing it that way, but IMO I just have to look at whats going on in the world today and its plain to me.. prejudice rules us... and the different religious beliefs in the world (christianity vs. islam being the easiest example)are the barriers that keep this hatred from diminishing, whether we want to acknowledge it or not.

Ironically, the atheists I've met in my life have been some of the nicest, most caring & open-minded people I know. Believe me, it scares the crap out of my mom who thinks my wife and her family are too nice and sweet to go to hell,, but oh well.. according to the Bible they will and so will my father's catholic family and my uncle and all his jewish relatives.. Meanwhile some of the most corrupt, vile, disgusting pigs on this earth proclaim faith in a God of sorts and live their entire lives thinking they will find salvation in the end... I'm not saying religious people are evil.. NO WAY.. I love and respect each and every member of my family and if it means not discussing religion with them in each others presence than I am more than willing to respect that boundary in exchange for a peaceful & loving co-existence that just seems so strange & foreign to many other people out there.

I say if your religion is doing for you what you need it to do, then keep doing it! Pressing beliefs onto others and creating prejudice is where the problem begins, which is why I protest the evils created by missionaries, but thats another topic.

Norm, your answers lie on the command line. As your heart pumps, the cursor blinks.

[64bit]

Originally posted by torsten
No flames taken and none given. It's a totally legit question.

Why? To know (or at least get closer to the truth) could hold the solution to many of life's dilemmas and give meaning to one's existence. How? It's just a culmination of years of personal observation and trying to analyze all that I've read and heard. Remember though, I said believe, which is very different from "prove" or "know." It goes in the "seems very likely" category. So unfortunately I can't give you that elusive "truth" you speak of. I try to keep an open mind to anything anyone wants to add, positive or negative. I don't think this is the kind of thing people should be arrogant about in either direction.

The whole thing is overwhelming(to say the least) I would truly love to believe that there is some force that guides what happens in the universe and there is another "life" after this and my existence has some meaning. I have put some effort into 'searching' for answers but faith always gets in the way. It could truly make you go insane. I pretend to have no answers but am always looking. I was brought up in the Church of Christ and believed in God for the first half of my life. I still don't know what happened to make me "lose faith". I was never of course that religious to begin with. I even have some of the guilt associated with a religious upbringing I guess in the end it truly is a lonely journey for the real answers that may never really be answered. Very depressing.

[Prey521]

I find it hard to answer questions from someone whom insists on badmouthing and blaspheming the Word of God.


Norm, for the wages of sin is death. The earth was meant to be a paradise for humanity. Man's own greed led to his destruction. We will suffer till the end of days. There will be wars, suffering, pestilence, disease, murders...you name it and we got it. Look at the shape, belief system and the moral values of this world? Legalized murder a.k.a. abortion, absolutely disgusting. Ridiculously explicit sex education in our schools....not a place for them....homosexuality is rampant and cool in this day and age.....And sorry to tell ya Norm, things are only going to get worse before they do get better. You know Norm, you have many questions that I sincerely cannot answer, though I can understand where you are coming from. I will honestly pray that you have an encounter with God, because it is only in that way will you be able to find the answers which you seek. You have potential, being that you're so passionate about this subject. Seek Him with an Honest and sincere heart, and I can guarantee you that you mind and heart will be at ease. But you cannot demand, patience is a virtue

[torsten]

Originally posted by 64bit
The whole thing is overwhelming(to say the least) I would truly love to believe that there is some force that guides what happens in the universe and there is another "life" after this and my existence has some meaning. I have put some effort into 'searching' for answers but faith always gets in the way. It could truly make you go insane. I pretend to have no answers but am always looking. I was brought up in the Church of Christ and believed in God for the first half of my life. I still don't know what happened to make me "lose faith". I was never of course that religious to begin with. I even have some of the guilt associated with a religious upbringing I guess in the end it truly is a lonely journey for the real answers that may never really be answered. Very depressing.

The terms available to us in these discussions are so imprecise that it's hard to know what others mean at times. By "faith gets in the way" and "lose faith" do you mean in the promises of God and religious tenets, or do you mean you concluded a higher power doesn't exist? I ask because it seems that a disillusionment with dogma is quite different from coming to believe there is no God, though each could be devastating in its own way.

Assuming that you do hold open the possibility of a higher power.....
Could some comfort be found by understanding that if there is a God that is all knowing/powerful/etc. he would obviously be aware of the limited state of your knowledge and take that into account? I mean, in the end, if God had the kind of understanding required to undertake creation of all that exists, wouldn't that kind of understanding be a given? For a just God, wouldn't intent behind your actions and sincerity of your quest absolve you of the kind of things that would warrant serious worry?

Hmmm. a question mark at the end of every sentence. But that's the way I've been thinking of it.

[Paft]

Originally posted by Norm
Sorry to have to straighten you out DH, but there are lots of other religions (see my earlier posts) that have lots of other Gods. The Indians have many Gods, I forget Pafts religion, but it has many Gods. There are other religions all over this planet with Gods that have nothing to do with the one we all have heard of the most. There is the sun God, the God of wind, and Fire, of Mother Earth, etc etc etc.

Forget trying to trip me up, and answer my Goddamn questions

To clarify for ya, Norm:

Goddess / Gaia / Earth (as you want to call her), the God / Sky / Space, and then I have my own little spiel of belief that any god/s created by Man (Greek, Egyptian, Roman, Christian, ect..) exist as a single concous thought between mankind, but wether any of the ones I know of are real or not I cannot prove nor disprove.

Personally, I keep my religion personal, and really can't put myself into any one catagory. I have bits of Wicca, Druidism, Shamanism, Greek & Roman, and many others I probally don't know of. If anything, you can call it, 'Personal'.

That clear some up for you?

[Roody]

Originally posted by Norm
So God killed kids becasue the Pharoah was a jerk?

I can't worship that type of God. IMHO he's messed up as bad as Saddam Hussein is.

If He would give up His super powers for a second, I'd take Him on with my bare hands.

Prey beat me to it. I was coming on now to get back to you Norm. I respect your opinion Norm, but in all honesty Id personally appreciate it if you took it a little easy with how you worded this stuff. God ISNT as messed up as Saddam Hussein and quite frankly, you, I and everyone else in this world doesnt have the mental capacity to understand everything God does.

That said, I am a person who is willing to listen and help explain things to people, but I cant say that I am perfect. I know you recognize the importance of God in people's lives and all I can ask is that you tone down for the lack of a better term how you refer to this.

Your response leads me to think that any answer wouldn't be satisfactory so I suppose its pointless to discuss this anyway. If you feel the need to continue speaking like that towards God Im not going to stop you, but Id appreciate it personally if you chose different methods to word your frustration.

Just a thought. If I left anything out let me know.

[Paft]

Originally posted by Norm
How about giving some opinions of some of the points I've brought up.

1. God killing innocent people because one man stood against him (The Pharoah story)

lol I really am getting messy with the typing (have to keep editing too much now), If you don't mind have a look through the thread for more of my points for discussion.

1a.) God (if Yaweh exists) is vengeful and jealous (read the bible) and so he kills off the polythiestic people on the slightest excuse he can find.

Here's another story - A man loots from the city of Ai, and his entire family is killed because of it. That's the story that made me decide that Christianity was f-d up as well, really, then just more and more came to me.

How about when Yaweh tells Oman to go 'into his [dead] brother's wife', he does, but drops his 'seed' on the ground and is killed? Or maybe when a drunken Abraham orders his sons killed because they put him in his bed naked?

Stupid, really some of it is.

[64bit]

Originally posted by torsten
The terms available to us in these discussions are so imprecise that it's hard to know what others mean at times. By "faith gets in the way" and "lose faith" do you mean in the promises of God and religious tenets, or do you mean you concluded a higher power doesn't exist? I ask because it seems that a disillusionment with dogma is quite different from coming to believe there is no God, though each could be devastating in its own way.

Assuming that you do hold open the possibility of a higher power.....
Could some comfort be found by understanding that if there is a God that is all knowing/powerful/etc. he would obviously be aware of the limited state of your knowledge and take that into account? I mean, in the end, if God had the kind of understanding required to undertake creation of all that exists, wouldn't that kind of understanding be a given? For a just God, wouldn't intent behind your actions and sincerity of your quest absolve you of the kind of things that would warrant serious worry?

Hmmm. a question mark at the end of every sentence. But that's the way I've been thinking of it.

On the question of faith I meant: come to believe there is no god or higher power. I have often thought about what you purpose in the second paragraph and yes I do receive solace from that....but, this of course does me no good in the Christian religion as I understand it. I am able to hear the message and understand the word, I just don't have faith in the message. Ahhhh the search goes on...and on....

[Roody]

Originally posted by Norm
I really can't understand why anyone would worship this God. Could someone explain it to me.

1. He kills en masse using WOMD (super powers) Floods, disease, what else?

2. He creates things designed to sin, then punishes them for sinning. What kind of cruel maniac is HE?

3. He needs to be loved and worshiped above all other Gods (If He ruled Iraq, I bet His picture would be all over the place too)

4. He's been punishing the human race ever since He created it because of 2 peoples actions.

5. He knows all, sees all, and hears all, as well He is everywhere at once. Yet He watches the suffering, knowing it was coming, and does litte or nothing to stop it.

6. He has the power to intervene in these situations listed above, and He could rectify them all without killing en masse, but He chooses the latter.

Now, can someone tell me why they would love a God like this?
No one would love a man like this.

Please, I have wanted answers to this for years, and never get one that makes any logical sense. I have talked to Gods helpers (Preists etc) I have talked to His followers, and I have called God Himself out to explain this to me. So far He hasn't responded.

Keep in mind that, if He exists, He also created me, and knows I'm here asking. And He expects His followers to spread His word. He is watching all of you, so don't let Him down. Explain it to me so that it makes sense.

Make Him proud of you.

I missed this one when I responded moments ago. I wont lie Norm your questions and how they are worded regarding God are combative IMO. Personally I think any answer given to you will be unsatisfactory as I said moments ago.

My suggestion would be to get the Bible and read it. I can't honestly see me saying anything that would improve your outlook or tone regarding how you speak about God.

[Paft]

Originally posted by knightmare
people who u think are pretty intelligent say there is no God,

Its written--"only a fool says there is no God".

Guess we truely are in the last days, when men have become so wise-they are fools...

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." - Matt. 7:6

Proverbs 14:15 - "The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going."

[EvilAjax]

Originally posted by Prey521
I find it hard to answer questions from someone whom insists on badmouthing and blaspheming the Word of God.


Norm, for the wages of sin is death. The earth was meant to be a paradise for humanity. Man's own greed led to his destruction. We will suffer till the end of days. There will be wars, suffering, pestilence, disease, murders...you name it and we got it. Look at the shape, belief system and the moral values of this world? Legalized murder a.k.a. abortion, absolutely disgusting. Ridiculously explicit sex education in our schools....not a place for them....homosexuality is rampant and cool in this day and age.....And sorry to tell ya Norm, things are only going to get worse before they do get better. You know Norm, you have many questions that I sincerely cannot answer, though I can understand where you are coming from. I will honestly pray that you have an encounter with God, because it is only in that way will you be able to find the answers which you seek. You have potential, being that you're so passionate about this subject. Seek Him with an Honest and sincere heart, and I can guarantee you that you mind and heart will be at ease. But you cannot demand, patience is a virtue

Very well put.

The reason I believe is because of experiences my friends, family and I have gone through. You don't have to believe anything, it's all up to you.

My friend got into a car accident (which he doesn't remember much about) and went into a coma for 7 weeks. He was presumed dead when they arrived to the scene of the accident. The car was upside down and he wound up in the back where a person wouldn't normally fit, unless folded up and crushed (it was an old hatchback... ) They had to saw the car open to get him out, he looked lifeless. Anyway, during his coma he was in a place where it was too bright to be able to tell.. he said it didn't feel like a dream.. it felt real. Then he heard a voice.. a Goddish... voice. I forget the details he told me, but I do remember him saying that God said "Now isn't your time. You still have a whole life ahead of you" (in Spanish though) or something like that.. and once he said that, he awoke from the coma. They were about to pull the plug on him a few minutes from then too.. his mom was saying her last prayers... My story wasn't exact, but the outcome is the same. I doubt my friend would lie about something like that.

I feel someone is going to die before they actually go on and die.. I don't know what it is... but I feel it.. I see it before it happens.. no details on how the person dies, just that the person dies and thats it.

I've also seen REAL LIFE WITCHES in D.R. and trust me... you don't want them casting spells on you. You'll suffer a very agonizing death.

It's funny though... whenever someone is in distress who do they ask for? God.. or their mommies.

It's ok if you don't believe me. What I ask is why the fack would I type all that if I were lying? Why would I waste my time? Why AM I wasting my time? You atheists wont believe me anyhow, right?


Everybody buy a crucifix, NOW.

[Paft]

Originally posted by EvilAjax
IMO Atheists are ignorant and self-minded fools. Not your wife though

Matthew

7:1 - "Judge not, that ye be not judged.

7:2 - For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

[torsten]

Originally posted by Roody
Prey beat me to it. I was coming on now to get back to you Norm. I respect your opinion Norm, but in all honesty Id personally appreciate it if you took it a little easy with how you worded this stuff. God ISNT as messed up as Saddam Hussein and quite frankly, you, I and everyone else in this world doesnt have the mental capacity to understand everything God does.

That said, I am a person who is willing to listen and help explain things to people, but I cant say that I am perfect. I know you recognize the importance of God in people's lives and all I can ask is that you tone down for the lack of a better term how you refer to this.

Your response leads me to think that any answer wouldn't be satisfactory so I suppose its pointless to discuss this anyway. If you feel the need to continue speaking like that towards God Im not going to stop you, but Id appreciate it personally if you chose different methods to word your frustration.

Just a thought. If I left anything out let me know.

It wasn't addressed me, but here's my reaction:
I don't know how you're supposed to whitewash those kinds of stories. Hussein is just an analogy that illustrates the same principle. A principle you still didn't confront. Namely, what do you make of a power that would hurt others as collateral damage in order to punish one person when the bad guy could have been targeted individually. Just saying there's things we can't comprehend sounds like a cop out. I can comprehend the example and so can most. Maybe the answer is to stop blindly accepting the idea that God is limited to what fundamentalists and texts say.

[Paft]

Originally posted by EvilAjax
Very well put.

The reason I believe is because of experiences my friends, family and I have gone through. You don't have to believe anything, it's all up to you.

My friend got into a car accident (which he doesn't remember much about) and went into a coma for 7 weeks. He was presumed dead when they arrived to the scene of the accident. The car was upside down and he wound up in the back where a person wouldn't normally fit, unless folded up and crushed (it was an old hatchback... ) They had to saw the car open to get him out, he looked lifeless. Anyway, during his coma he was in a place where it was too bright to be able to tell.. he said it didn't feel like a dream.. it felt real. Then he heard a voice.. a Goddish... voice. I forget the details he told me, but I do remember him saying that God said "Now isn't your time. You still have a whole life ahead of you" (in Spanish though) or something like that.. and once he said that, he awoke from the coma. They were about to pull the plug on him a few minutes from then too.. his mom was saying her last prayers... My story wasn't exact, but the outcome is the same. I doubt my friend would lie about something like that.

I feel someone is going to die before they actually go on and die.. I don't know what it is... but I feel it.. I see it before it happens.. no details on how the person dies, just that the person dies and thats it.

I've also seen REAL LIFE WITCHES in D.R. and trust me... you don't want them casting spells on you. You'll suffer a very agonizing death.

It's funny though... whenever someone is in distress who do they ask for? God.. or their mommies.

It's ok if you don't believe me. What I ask is why the fack would I type all that if I were lying? Why would I waste my time? Why AM I wasting my time? You atheists wont believe me anyhow, right?


Everybody buy a crucifix, NOW.

Exodus 22:18 - "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

Leviticus 20:27 - "A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them."

So your friend should die, since he consorts with "familiar spirits"?

[Roody]

Originally posted by torsten
It wasn't addressed me, but here's my reaction:
I don't know how you're supposed to whitewash those kinds of stories. Hussein is just an analogy that illustrates the same principle. A principle you still didn't confront. Namely, what do you make of a power that would hurt others as collateral damage in order to punish one person when the bad guy could have been targeted individually. Just saying there's things we can't comprehend sounds like a cop out. I can comprehend the example and so can most. Maybe the answer is to stop blindly accepting the idea that God is limited to what fundamentalists and texts say.

It wasnt just one person. There was many people who had sinned there against God torsten. Pharoah was but one of those.

Im far from coping out of anything. Im just realizing how difficult and in most cases pointless it is to argue the Bible and its events to those who don't believe and show no interest in believing. Is it just for the sake of argument? If so, I think Ill pass, because truthfully it frustrates me to listen to people attack God.

[EvilAjax]

To answer Norm...

God gave us life, that was his gift to us. What we do is up to us. So if we decide to kill or whatever, it's going to happen. I think he's just had it... there's so many people who are naive and idiotic in this world.

So what you haven't seen God. Have you seen Christopher Columbus or anything else that's prehistoric? Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

IMO, during the "greek" times, I think the Earth was very Supernaturalistic and God like...

No one is going to make up a religion out of no where just to look up to someone.

Here's another weird one... I believe in God... but not the Bible. I'm sorry... I just cannot. If something happens that was said in the Bible it's because of human acts... people probably do it just to prove the Bible right or something, I don't know. Supposedly, the twin towers demise was in the Bible.... HOWCOME IT WAS NEVER MENTIONED TO ME?

Anyway, I love you God.

[Paft]

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty.html

Anyone here care to debunk or explain all of the 671 claims in this website that just deal with Yaweh's cruelty?

My question to you all is, how can you worship a being that if he were a man you would scream out to be murdered and ripped apart into little pieces? It's like a wife in an abusive relationship, to me.. you defend him though he hurts and destroys you little by little.