Pharmacists around the country refusing to fill prescriptions

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:52 am

Is this crazy or what? Pharmacists dictating their beliefs onto customers? What next? A pharmacist believes you should die rather than take AIDS medication because you are gay...I see it coming.
This is going way to far.

An increasing number of pharmacists around the country are refusing to fill prescriptions for birth-control and morning-after pills, saying that dispensing the medications violates their personal moral or religious beliefs.

The trend has opened a new front in the nation's battle over reproductive rights, sparking an intense debate over a pharmacist's right to refuse to participate in something he or she considers repugnant, versus a woman's right to get medications her doctor has prescribed.

It has triggered pitched political battles in state legislatures across the nation as politicians seek to pass laws either to protect pharmacists from being penalized or to force them to carry out their professional duties

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/h ... sts28.html

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:56 am

Thats bull..if they dont do their job they should be let go immediately. No if's and's or but's about it.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:57 am

They should be fired and have any and all licenses revoked permanently.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:57 am

I dont see how they can do that legally.

They should not be able to override the doctor unless he feels there is a safety issue with an interaction

Spammy · Post by **Spammy** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:00 pm

Thats bs.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:00 pm

Rainbow wrote:Thats bull..if they dont do their job they should be let go immediately. No if's and's or but's about it.

Can't believe they are even entertaining the thought of wether or not to protect these people legally. Jews and Moslems refusing to serve bacon or ham in a restaurant, Vegans becoming butchers so they can refuse to sell meat? (Not that this will happen but you never know!) They need to stomp this out fast.

Pie

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:37 pm

That's total bull****. They should have their practicing license suspended and removed without pay from their jobs.

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 pm

Izzo wrote:They should be fired and have any and all licenses revoked permanently.

Cool! We think alike. Scary eh?

tao_jones · Post by **tao_jones** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:00 pm

Joint Chiefs of Staff wrote:That's total bull****. They should have their practicing license suspended and removed without pay from their jobs.

Just fill the prescription and shut the hell up.

triniwasp · Post by **triniwasp** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:01 pm

As long as they don't stop dispensing Viagara

Seriously though, total crap. They do have some leverage unfortunately, due to a serious shortage of pharmacists.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:08 pm

Bah, what are you guys getting so bent out of shape about? There are plenty of pharmacies out there with plenty of pharmacists that would willingly fill them. There is no emergency or threat to the woman for not filling these prescriptions immediately. Even the morning after pill has 72 hours to be taken.

Doctors don't have to perform abortions based on their beliefs, why should a pharmacists be required to fill these prescriptions, in a non-emergency? Find another pharmacists, real simple solution.

And if the company they work for doesn't agree, then fire them if they like.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:20 pm

Joint Chiefs of Staff wrote:Cool! We think alike. Scary eh?

Joint Chiefs of Staff · Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:27 pm

Izzo wrote:

Better yet give me a job handing out pills for a living. My town will be happy 24/7

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:40 pm

Scott wrote:Bah, what are you guys getting so bent out of shape about? There are plenty of pharmacies out there with plenty of pharmacists that would willingly fill them. There is no emergency or threat to the woman for not filling these prescriptions immediately. Even the morning after pill has 72 hours to be taken.

Doctors don't have to perform abortions based on their beliefs, why should a pharmacists be required to fill these prescriptions, in a non-emergency? Find another pharmacists, real simple solution.

And if the company they work for doesn't agree, then fire them if they like.

Keep in mind a lot of these larger Walgreens, and Rite-Aids put a lot of local competition out of business, so in some cases they are the only recourse for some people. Besides, this is medication and should not be left to some individuals moral or religeous beliefs....why should we be the ones to have to give in and go somewhere else when they should be the ones to go somewhere else. This is going above and beyond an individuals right to freedom of religeon, when it encroaches on anothers right for freedom of choice.

Pie

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:47 pm

thepieman wrote:This is going above and beyond an individuals right to freedom of religeon, when it encroaches on anothers right for freedom of choice.

Pie

But isn't that what you are asking them to do, look the other way on their beliefs? What about doctors, should all of them be required to perform abortions or altering surgeries they disagree with?

While I will agree with you that the larger chains drive out some independent pharmacies, there are still plenty that will do this for you. All you have to do is go somewhere else or ask for another pharmacist to fill it, and complain to the chain. Before long, it'll be the chains that establish a policy with their employees, if the employee doesn't like, he looks for other employment.

I do not believe, however, that any pharmacists should refuse to fill a prescription and then not forward the prescription to another pharmacy/pharmacist. The one case mentioned in that article seems to have been justly handled.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:51 pm

Scre* their beliefs. What about the women (many) who need birth control pills their doctors prescribed just to keep them regular????

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:55 pm

Rainbow wrote:Scre* their beliefs. What about the women (many) who need birth control pills their doctors prescribed just to keep them regular????

Find another pharmacist. I don't believe it is written anywhere that anyone is entitled to non-emergency care at any place of your choosing.

This country loves to have all its rights and beliefs, but no one wants to respect anyone else's rights and beliefs.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:57 pm

Scott wrote:But isn't that what you are asking them to do, look the other way on their beliefs? What about doctors, should all of them be required to perform abortions or altering surgeries they disagree with?

While I will agree with you that the larger chains drive out some independent pharmacies, there are still plenty that will do this for you. All you have to do is go somewhere else or ask for another pharmacist to fill it, and complain to the chain. Before long, it'll be the chains that establish a policy with their employees, if the employee doesn't like, he looks for other employment.

I do not believe, however, that any pharmacists should refuse to fill a prescription and then not forward the prescription to another pharmacy/pharmacist. The one case mentioned in that article seems to have been justly handled.

doctors and pharmacists...much different things IMO

one problem is in many small rural towns there is only one pharmacist that is available without having to drive an hour..plus insurance is another thing.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:57 pm

Scott wrote:Find another pharmacist. I don't believe it is written anywhere that anyone is entitled to non-emergency care at any place of your choosing.

This country loves to have all its rights and beliefs, but no one wants to respect anyone else's rights and beliefs.

Typical American cop out. They take on oath to do a job...if they can't or won't then there out the door.
Finding another place that takes your insurance is not always easy.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:00 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:doctors and pharmacists...much different things IMO

one problem is in many small rural towns there is only one pharmacist that is available without having to drive an hour..plus insurance is another thing.

Not a lot different, IMO, in that they both are entitled to their beliefs. Rural towns could be a problem, but I don't know of many that are an hour from another town, with another pharmacy. But I'll agree with you that only one pharmacist in a town would be a nuisance, if he believed this way.

Ghosthunter · Post by **Ghosthunter** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:01 pm

Scott wrote:Not a lot different, IMO, in that they both are entitled to their beliefs. Rural towns could be a problem, but I don't know of many that are an hour from another town, with another pharmacy. But I'll agree with you that only one pharmacist in a town would be a nuisance, if he believed this way.

The difference is you will never find a doctor that can do every single field. If a doctor does not beleive in abortions...he wont go into that field.

But if he is a neurologist he will never ever have to do it..

With a pharmacy there is such a broad range of medicines...i mean what if this pharmacists decides he thinks all narcotics are bad and wont give it?

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:06 pm

Rainbow wrote:Typical American cop out. They take on oath to do a job...if they can't or won't then there out the door.
Finding another place that takes your insurance is not always easy.

Typical liberal whining, thinking you're entitled to everything your way, forcing your beliefs on others, doing just what you accuse others of doing.

I think if you read the oath, you'll find they are doing their jobs.

bunson · Post by **bunson** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:08 pm

Scott, in some cases this has gone beyond simply refusing to fill a prescription. This guy also refused to return or forward the script to any other pharmacist, that's just plain wrong.
http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=32774

"While working at a Menomonie, Wisconsin, K-Mart pharmacy in July of 2002, Phiede, a single college student at the time, presented a prescription for the pill. Noesen had made an agreement with his managing pharmacist, Ken Jordanby, that he would not be required to fill prescriptions for contraceptives. Noesen, working alone at the time, refused the prescription and would not forward Phiede's prescription to another pharmacist. She returned with two police officers. "

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:08 pm

Joint Chiefs of Staff wrote:Better yet give me a job handing out pills for a living. My town will be happy 24/7

Give me a job in Guam and ....virgins no more

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:09 pm

Scott wrote:But isn't that what you are asking them to do, look the other way on their beliefs? What about doctors, should all of them be required to perform abortions or altering surgeries they disagree with?

By all means no. Thats what the clinics are there for. I don't think I know many doctors that are MD's that will perform that kind of procedure, they usually refer them to planned parenthood. I would think a doctor would specialize in that and not all perform abortion procedures.

While I will agree with you that the larger chains drive out some independent pharmacies, there are still plenty that will do this for you. All you have to do is go somewhere else or ask for another pharmacist to fill it, and complain to the chain. Before long, it'll be the chains that establish a policy with their employees, if the employee doesn't like, he looks for other employment.

Especially in a national chain store I would expect this to not be tolerated in any way, shape or form. I would more expect this from a small independant pharmacist who can just easily say "its not something I carry" and get away with it.

I do not believe, however, that any pharmacists should refuse to fill a prescription and then not forward the prescription to another pharmacy/pharmacist. The one case mentioned in that article seems to have been justly handled.

Here is a portion of the Pharmacists Oath that they must take.
"welfare of humanity and relief of human suffering"

I think any person in that field of medicine should decide wether or not they can fulfill that oath to its fullest extent or look for some other type of job.

Pie

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:09 pm

Ghosthunter wrote:The difference is you will never find a doctor that can do every single field. If a doctor does not beleive in abortions...he wont go into that field.

But if he is a neurologist he will never ever have to do it..

With a pharmacy there is such a broad range of medicines...i mean what if this pharmacists decides he thinks all narcotics are bad and wont give it?

OB-GYN's perform abortions, they also deliver babies. I fail to see the reasoning. So if a doctor wants to deliver babies, he should have to perform abortions?

Deciding all narcotics are bad would be overboard.

Rainbow · Post by **Rainbow** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:12 pm

Scott wrote:Typical liberal whining, thinking you're entitled to everything your way, forcing your beliefs on others, doing just what you accuse others of doing.

I think if you read the oath, you'll find they are doing their jobs.

Maybe its you who should educate yourself...I happen to work in a Hospital do you?

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:13 pm

Rainbow wrote:Typical American cop out. They take on oath to do a job...if they can't or won't then there out the door.
Finding another place that takes your insurance is not always easy.

I agree...what if a Doctor in hospital decided not to perform a regualr procedure because he or she disagreed with how that person thought/lived/did for a living.

....it's so wrong it's silly.

thepieman · Post by **thepieman** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:16 pm

Izzo wrote:I agree...what if a Doctor in hospital decided not to perform a regualr procedure because he or she disagreed with how that person thought/lived/did for a living.

....it's so wrong it's silly.

For example a pregnant woman who gets cancer during pregnancy...a pharmacist or doctor could then say they they refuse to medicate or try to cure them because the fetus could possibly abort.
Pie

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:20 pm

Rainbow wrote:Maybe its you who should educate yourself...I happen to work in a Hospital do you?

Doctor, pharmacist? Orderly, clerk? Nurse, maid? No I don't work in a hospital, noticed you didn't bother to say what you did in one, perhaps it's because it will lend your opinion about as valuable as mine or anyone else's.

Izzo · Post by **Izzo** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:21 pm

thepieman wrote:For example a pregnant woman who gets cancer during pregnancy...a pharmacist or doctor could then say they they refuse to medicate or try to cure them because the fetus could possibly abort.
Pie

Well, that's a tough situation .. if the Doctor came out and said i won't do it... with the sole reason being "i dont agree with abortion".....and with the mother thinking "i can save myself and try for children later" .....yeah then the Doc should find something else to do for a living ... there are so many variables in that situation ..i mean how would you ever now his or her motive??? ...unless a contrary opinion was offered elsewhere by another Doctor you might never know ..

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:23 pm

They're just doing what many Doctors have been doing for years.
21 years ago when my oldest son was born, Fam doc was on holiday's. Doctor at hospitol that delived the baby would not do a circumcision because it was against his religion and personal beliefs.
And because it was a teaching Hospital, most of the staff was Oriental and no Doctor there would do it, Same bullchit excuse.
We had to take him back 3 weeks later when Family Doctor was back from Holidays

.
This problem is only going to get worse and spread in a mulitcultural society

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:24 pm

Izzo wrote:Well, that's a tough situation .. if the Doctor came out and said i won't do it... with the sole reason being "i dont agree with abortion".....and with the mother thinking "i can save myself and try for children later" .....yeah then the Doc should find something else to do for a living ... there are so many variables in that situation ..i mean how would you ever now his or her motive??? ...unless a contrary opinion was offered elsewhere by another Doctor you might never know ..

Exactly. That's a bit of a different situation than prescribing morning after pills or birth control, after all, that's all this is about. Same old right to life vs. abortion in a different arena.

tao_jones · Post by **tao_jones** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:26 pm

If the pharamacist doesnt agree with the customers decision than fine...give them advice on another avenue but still if the customer asks for it then fill the prescription and move on.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:38 pm

bunson wrote:Scott, in some cases this has gone beyond simply refusing to fill a prescription. This guy also refused to return or forward the script to any other pharmacist, that's just plain wrong.
http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=32774

"While working at a Menomonie, Wisconsin, K-Mart pharmacy in July of 2002, Phiede, a single college student at the time, presented a prescription for the pill. Noesen had made an agreement with his managing pharmacist, Ken Jordanby, that he would not be required to fill prescriptions for contraceptives. Noesen, working alone at the time, refused the prescription and would not forward Phiede's prescription to another pharmacist. She returned with two police officers. "

Yes, I agree that it was wrong. I believe I stated that in a previous post as well, that it was handled justly. He should not have refused to forward the prescription.

minir · Post by **minir** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:56 pm

Hi thepieman

imho a Pharmacist knows prior to taking the Job what is required of Him/Her.

Refusal to dispense a Drug of any form that is Authorized by a Physician should mean Instant Dismissal and the Licence of the Individual should be Forfeit Instantly.

This BS has gone too far and needs to be Stopped. There are plenty of qualified people who would be more than willing to do these Jobs without complaint i'm sure.

Perhaps the Question should be Asked prior to their obtaining a Licence in the first place and if the answer is unsatisfactory...No licence Given.
---

regards

minir

Tawcan · Post by **Tawcan** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:26 pm

This is ridiculous....they're paid to give a service...to dispense drugs. What they're doing is total BS.

So what's next? Nurses refused to serve minority patients b/c it's against their believes? Waiters/waitresses in restaurant refuse to serve customers meals b/c they're too fat?

What has the world come to?

Meggie · Post by **Meggie** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:41 pm

sort of how a lot of hospitals/doctors arent prescribing rape victims about the morning after pill or even telling them that such a thing exists..

i think i posted something about that a year or two ago.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:44 pm

thepieman wrote:Is this crazy or what? Pharmacists dictating their beliefs onto customers? What next? A pharmacist believes you should die rather than take AIDS medication because you are gay...I see it coming.
This is going way to far.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/h ... sts28.html

all I can say to that is to be sure and tell these idoits that there are plenty of people waiting to apply for vacant Pharmacists positions.

ScottE · Post by **ScottE** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:52 pm

I should get a job at McDonalds or some fast food place and not serve people that I deem to be fat.