I'm glad we NUKED those bastards!

EvilAngel · Post by **EvilAngel** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 8:46 pm

I'm watching War Stories on CNN and those Japanese SOBs were the most hanious, cruel, ruthless POS!

I use to feel bad that the USA nuked them but after watching this special I'm glad the US made that desicion!

XSeaNX · Post by **XSeaNX** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 8:49 pm

I agree EA

they are some psycho bastards when they wanna be!!

the sad part is....we helped them rebuild and give them some tech to improve on and now they have some of the best technology in the world...along with their booming economy. not that its a bad thing...but we help them and they do a whole lot better...

not that it was RIGHT paft, but we couldnt sit around and do anything...I think at that point in the war it came down to a "them or us" kind of decision

yes we could have done it without nukes and controlled them...but the US life lost would have been horrific. a life is a life yes, but I will agree that in that situation it became pretty desperate. the important thing is it stopped before it went TOO far. it could have been a lot worse if we werent the only one with that technology at the time.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 8:53 pm

Originally posted by XSeaNX
I agree EA

they are some psycho bastards when they wanna be!!

the sad part is....we helped them rebuild and give them some tech to improve on and now they have some of the best technology in the world...along with their booming economy. not that its a bad thing...but we help them and they do a whole lot better...

not that it was RIGHT paft, but we couldnt sit around and do anything...I think at that point in the war it came down to a "them or us" kind of decision

yes we could have done it without nukes and controlled them...but the US life lost would have been horrific

Ummm.......sidenote...they don't have a booming economy. Just the opposite in fact. Japan has been in a recession for a very long time.

War is ugly for all sides involved. We have a couple of major reloaction camps in the area. I grew up near one at Hunt Idaho. A lot of them good folk stayed after the war. Nice people. Hard workers and polite.

I had an Uncle who was in occupied Japan for 2 years. He loved it. On the other hand, there isn't anyone here now or then that had as much hate as he did for them during the war. He lost one brother in the Baton death march. His stay in Japan was really a healing experience.

onetrueday · Post by **onetrueday** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 8:53 pm

and logic would also state that if we hadnt, they would have lost more lives.

So, in a strange twist of logic, we saved japanese lives the way we did it.

EvilAngel · Post by **EvilAngel** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 8:54 pm

Originally posted by Paft
I hope you lose family to a nuke, or bomb, or some other weapon of mass destruction, just so that you know the pain we caused.

Death is death. People are people.. we're all the same race. I believe an astronaut said it best (paraphraised, pardon my memory):

"When I was up in space, I didn't see boundaries. I didn't see countries or places. I saw a world, a world where there are people. I didn't see races or colors, I just saw humanity."

Yah ok... those SOB's torched our troops while alive, used them as slkaves, beat then daily, shot thousands just to make room for more they did so god damned many cruel things that were definatly CRUEL AND UNUSSUAL punishment and yet we the US need to say objecctive and allow this? ppfffttt..

*edit*

Paft I hope your family is starved untill they are bloated then thrown into a dark cave just to be fed contaninated rice and water then torchured daily only be be burnt alive or shot. so you'll undestand what pain they put the US threw.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:02 pm

It looks like he did.

XSeaNX · Post by **XSeaNX** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:02 pm

Originally posted by downhill
Ummm.......sidenote...they don't have a booming economy. Just the opposite in fact. Japan has been in a recession for a very long time.

War is ugly for all sides involved. We have a couple of major reloaction camps in the area. I grew up near one at Hunt Idaho. A lot of them good folk stayed after the war. Nice people. Hard workers and polite.

I had an Uncle who was in occupied Japan for 2 years. He loved it. On the other hand, there isn't anyone here now or then that had as much hate as he did for them during the war. He lost one brother in the Baton death march. His stay in Japan was really a healing experience.

downhill, Im not speaking for numbers...so your probably right, but most of them lead lavish lifestyles...I think it would be pretty cool to live in japan though....pretty country.

however you have to admit they rule the electronics industry.

and EA is right dude...no matter how a person feels you should WISH death upon them...that isnt cool at all. I dont car what someones opinions are

EvilAngel · Post by **EvilAngel** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:06 pm

Originally posted by Paft
He's also a hypocrate. "I'm glad we nuked those bastards".. excuse me? Either situation it is someone wishing deah upon or glad for the deaths of someone else.

As for Downhill, yes, I did retract my statment. It took away from the message I wanted to give, so I just wouldn't give it at all. But since I am quoted, I guess I will continue in this thread.

I got your hypocite. Death was inevitable in that war.. war = death,plain and simple.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:25 pm

funny, but the Japanese were not always this (that) way.

during WWI, they were actually very nice to their POWs. as a matter of fact, many german POWs moved back to Japan to live after the war.

then came thier invasion of China, and their previous views and treatment of outsiders (non-japanese) took an abrupt about-face. what they did to the Chinese populace was atrocious.

torsten · Post by **torsten** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:35 pm

I wonder what the US response would have been in WWII if the Japanese had tried to wage war by proxy the way it's done today --- you know, instead of using their own army and navy, support and fund a terrorist group to do their dirty work. Say, level a portion of New York?

The Japanese people and their government could look confused and say, "who???? us????"

And what would we do? Let them get away with it?

My guess is Truman would handle things a bit differently than is done in 2002.

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:42 pm

Originally posted by torsten
I wonder what the US response would have been in WWII if the Japanese had tried to wage war by proxy the way it's done today --- you know, instead of using their own army and navy, support and fund a terrorist group to do their dirty work. Say, level a portion of New York?

The Japanese people and their government could look confused and say, "who???? us????"

And what would we do? Let them get away with it?

My guess is Truman would handle things a bit differently than is done in 2002.

Umm...like take out most of the Pacific Fleet on a suprise attack? Dunno......

I think it's just too unrelated to figure out what a response would have been. If the US was going to get involved..it wouldn't make much sense for Japan to take out part of NYC.

And we are talking a country and not an idea.

Onethenumber2 · Post by **Onethenumber2** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:54 pm

I lived in Japan for 2 years on a US military base, it is a very pretty place and the people there dont hate the American bases as much as their government would like us to think. I also met a soilder who was in the Batan (I dont know how its spelled) death march) I think that any people is capable of what the Japanes or Germans did, we cannot think we are above that, we're all people.

torsten · Post by **torsten** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:54 pm

Originally posted by downhill
Umm...like take out most of the Pacific Fleet on a suprise attack? Dunno......

I think it's just too unrelated to figure out what a response would have been. If the US was going to get involved..it wouldn't make much sense for Japan to take out part of NYC.

And we are talking a country and not an idea.

And so am I in this case. I'm talking about countries who are covertly responsible for much of the carnage we've seen lately. They get it done (to the satisfaction of huge portions of their population) without taking responsibility for what they cause to happen. And their governments continue to survive. My point was that the mentality of the US (at least concerning war) was different in that era. We weren't eager for war, but once in it, didn't approach the task in a half-assed PC manner.

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:55 pm

Originally posted by Onethenumber2
I lived in Japan for 2 years on a US military base, it is a very pretty place and the people there dont hate the American bases as much as their government would like us to think. I also met a soilder who was in the Batan (I dont know how its spelled) death march) I think that any people is capable of what the Japanes or Germans did, we cannot think we are above that, we're all people.

i'd like to add that none of us are perfect. i share your opinion. no, pearl harbor wasn't 'ok' and isn't today, but japan isn't our enemy anymore, and hasn't been for a long time. why hate them now? this is just my opinion so no flames please.

Amro

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:57 pm

Originally posted by torsten
And so am I in this case. I'm talking about countries who are covertly responsible for much of the carnage we've seen lately. They get it done (to the satisfaction of huge portions of their population) without taking responsibility for what they cause to happen. And their governments continue to survive. My point was that the mentality of the US (at least concerning war) was different in that era. We weren't eager for war, but once in it, didn't approach the task in a half-assed PC manner.

yup and now we're proactive about it..fight anyone, any time..

i think we've moved from one extreme to another.

torsten · Post by **torsten** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:59 pm

Originally posted by Onethenumber2
I think that any people is capable of what the Japanes or Germans did, we cannot think we are above that, we're all people.

I agree with this. We should not single out groups of people in a racial sense. People are products of culture and upbringing and circumstance. Unfortunately, when people align themselves with destruction and aggression, they're subject to the response it brings.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:00 pm

Had a friend who fought the Japenese in the Dutch Indonisian war.
He said if he ever in his life had to fight against the Japenese again he would commit suicide first rather than face them in battle again.
Ruthless warriors they are. Whether they can still muster that ferocity that they had then is another story, the 21st century in civilized countries has softened us all to the point of no return i fear

torsten · Post by **torsten** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:03 pm

Originally posted by Amro
yup and now we're proactive about it..fight anyone, any time..

i think we've moved from one extreme to another.

Uh..... I think it's fair to say I disagree with that

The fact that the current government in Iran has waged covert warfare for 23 years and is still doing it, is evidence of US timidity.

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:11 pm

Originally posted by torsten
Uh..... I think it's fair to say I disagree with that

The fact that the current government in Iran has waged covert warfare for 23 years and is still doing it, is evidence of US timidity.

yea bud, that's one example and true..but iraq, afganistan, vietnam, korea, etc..are examples of the rest. shrug, i suppose it's a 2 way street..plus u definately have the right to disagree..it was my opinion....dunno that it's fact, just looking at what i know off the top of my head in a quick thought.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:21 pm

Japan deserved the bomb and more imho.

Japan did in fact create a nuclear weapon...they detonated it in 1945. They also had a bio-weapons program headed by Unit 731.

The sad part is that America covered up Unit 731's activities in exchange for the bio-weapons information.

What made Unit 731's activities so heinous was that they experimented on live people....vivisection to be exact. Japan gassed many people in their own conflicts....and even planned and executed crude deployments of bio-weapons against us in 1944. They flew ballons in the prevailing winds carrying anthrax and plague. They even sent a submarine our way loaded with bio-weapons but we sunk it.

Onethenumber2 · Post by **Onethenumber2** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:33 pm

I think the seceret war is more for the international counity proabbly than it is for our own citizens.

Yeah we are a pretty screwed up society in America today. Weve come a long way from where we were before WWII but that probably just speed up the procces.

Not every one has the same freedoms and rights America has nor is it our job to make sure everone does have those freedoms.

Anyone ever think how much the US is like the federation in Star Trek. Maybe we shouldnt mess with all those little countires. (Iraq is different they are a threat to our security)

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:36 pm

Originally posted by Onethenumber2
I think the seceret war is more for the international counity proabbly than it is for our own citizens.

Yeah we are a pretty screwed up society in America today. Weve come a long way from where we were before WWII but that probably just speed up the procces.

Not every one has the same freedoms and rights America has nor is it our job to make sure everone does have those freedoms.

Anyone ever think how much the US is like the federation in Star Trek. Maybe we shouldnt mess with all those little countires. (Iraq is different they are a threat to our security)

saddam is a threat to the world.

EvilAngel · Post by **EvilAngel** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:42 pm

What pisses me off the most is we treat our POW's like gold compaired to others.

The US is scrutinized for taking off the talibans towels off their heads looking for weapons..

we are so bad to our POW's

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:45 pm

Originally posted by EvilAngel
What pisses me off the most is we treat our POW's like gold compaired to others.

The US is scrutinized for taking off the talibans towels off their heads looking for weapons.. we are so bad to our POW's

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jun20 ... -j17.shtml

Onethenumber2 · Post by **Onethenumber2** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:47 pm

Originally posted by Amro
saddam is a threat to the world.

I think most people aggree with you there. The problem is he just doesnt care. By defiing the US he just gets more popular with his people. He is playing a game with us. And for him he thinks its a win win situation. Even if he dies he belives he will have 70 virgins in heaven. He's proabably got some of the same Ego trips the old babylonian rulers had.

Americans are like the sheltered kids on the block even though we are 6'4 280.

EvilAngel · Post by **EvilAngel** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:50 pm

Originally posted by Onethenumber2

Americans are like the sheltered kids on the block even though we are 6'4 280.

So what do you mean exactly?

Because we (American) do not shoot em up and kill at will (well 90% of Americans) that we are sheltered?

EvilAngel · Post by **EvilAngel** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:54 pm

Originally posted by Paft
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jun20 ... -j17.shtml

What, is that written by Islamics?

I didn't read the whole thing but the parts I read seemed dramticaly exaggerated compaired to reports on CNN.

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:55 pm

Originally posted by EvilAngel
What, is that written by Islamics?

I didn't read the whole thing but the parts I read seemed dramticaly exaggerated compaired to reports on CNN.

Showings in Europe spark demands for war crimes probe

EvilAngel · Post by **EvilAngel** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:57 pm

Originally posted by Paft
Showings in Europe spark demands for war crimes probe

A-hem.

go figure... france maybe? They have all the right things to say..

plus no need to be a dic A-Hem

Paft · Post by **Paft** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:59 pm

Originally posted by EvilAngel
go figure... france maybe? They have all the right things to say..

plus no need to be a dic A-Hem

You're right, I'm sorry. The a-hem was rude of me.

Onethenumber2 · Post by **Onethenumber2** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:00 pm

I suppose i shoudnt genrilize like that but the media any way have no clue it seems about some things. The prisoners for example. Whats the matter with giving guys that were trying to commit terroism in our country the same treatment that prisoners in our own jails get?! You want us to build them Luxury hotels?!

By sheltered 6 4 280 I mean we are the biggest and most powerful, uncontested champ but our population is sheltered about a great many things.

No we shouldnt go killing everyone but when its clear that we have an enemy who wants to kill us yet we keep on talking about not hurting anyones feelings its like whoa we have some people with very distorted worldviews

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:03 pm

correct me if im wrong here, but the taliban isnt a recognized government/army and as such arent covered by the rules of war meaning POW's is something they could not be. Like i said, correct me if im wrong, but i do believe that is the case.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:06 pm

Massacre in Mazar...I can't find it on any P2P app and if this is true, then why hasn't a copy been sent to Geneva for evaluation?

reverse · Post by **reverse** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:16 pm

Originally posted by Paft
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jun20 ... -j17.shtml

If, that is a BIG if, that actually happened I seriously doubt it was per the orders of the US government. I would tend to be weary of witnesses of a country full of people that absolutly despise America and what it stands for claiming such atrosities(sp). Many of the witnesses claim they were there, well if they were there and American troops actually did this, do you think those troops would be dumb enough to leave witnesses? No one in their right mind could pull that type of mass murder without it becoming public. As far as people never coming back, that is speculation which is what this entire film/report is.

Sounds to me like a perfect opportunity for an independant film maker to get his golden 15 minutes of fame without hard evidence other than here say of what actually happened to those people. It's also a great opportunity to stir up controversy against it's enemey (US).

<sidenote, ramblings>
Paft, I sometimes wonder what your motives are for such things you bring up about our country. Not that anything is wrong with it but I'm sure it gives people a weary sense of your persona. Everyone here knows that our government is not perfect or incapable of wrong doing, you will always have a few bad seeds when it comes to such a large group of people.
</sidenote, ramblings>

torsten · Post by **torsten** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:19 pm

It does bring up a good question. What is to be done with Taliban fighters? Legalities aside, this is not like Japan, and they're not traditional POWs whose allegiance is to an established nation. When the conflict is finished, they won't just accept their nation's surrender and go back to working at Nissan. They are essentially part of an international terror force and will go back to being part of it.

Roody · Post by **Roody** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:22 pm

exactly Torsten. it would seem to me that we could do whatever we chose to regarding any captured taliban soldiers. Terrorism is dirty in and of itself, so why cant a country send a message to terrorists by getting a little dirty also, especially since these fools arent a recognized government.

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:23 pm

Originally posted by torsten
It does bring up a good question. What is to be done with Taliban fighters? Legalities aside, this is not like Japan, and they're not traditional POWs whose allegiance is to an established nation. When the conflict is finished, they won't just accept their nation's surrender and go back to working at Nissan. They are essentially part of an international terror force and will go back to being part of it.

I say this: treat them as the criminals that they are. Let the new government prosecute.

Mutch · Post by **Mutch** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:25 pm

I only read the first page, but let me add in my two cents..

my nextdoor neighbor was a japanese pow for 2 years in ww2. He was beaten and all that. When he returned home his wife made him his favourite meal. Like prochops potatoes all the fixings and rice. The guy was afraid of the rice as it reminded him of the maggots which were alive in his wounds and sores...

Disgusting.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:27 pm

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jun20 ... -j17.shtml

hmm. gimme about 3 hours and i can come up with a webpage stating that Elvis Presley is alive and doing well as the US Secretary of State.

it's really that easy.

notice that all the related links at the bottom of the page lead to other pages at the same site. nothing to support any of the claims.

i have no reason to believe even one word on that page, and every reason to doubt it. am i saying there has been no brutalization of any POWs? no, but then again that's par for the course. that sort of thing happens in our prisons, too. people will always fight and there will always be jerks in every group of people.

Onethenumber2 · Post by **Onethenumber2** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:28 pm

Some would say that terroists are like modern day pirates. The US dealt with its pirate problems in the early 1800's by really being nasty and teaching a few of them a lesson. They were all too scared to keep on pirating US ships. However these pirates were not on sucide missions so its a little different.