SAO PAULO, Brazil, Dec 21 (Reuters) - Brazil's producers of ethanol -- and the world's largest sugar growing sector that supplies them -- are shifting their hopes from ethanol exports to domestic demand as "flex fuel" cars become more attractive. Hey people heres what we do down here in brazil to avoid high gas prices ..( since it seems lots of people are talking about gas prices in the forum)
Back in the 80´s because of oil crisis, brazil started manufacturing alcohol run cars (sugar cane alcohol), at one time 99 percent of tha national fleet was alcohol.. ..
in the mid 90´s when gas prices started dropping. they started making only gasoline cars again..
NOW with this new crisis.. they started producing alcoho runned cars and also BI-FUEL FLEX cars.. that can run on either percentage of whatever source.
NOW, I actually tranformed my gasoline engine to alcohol drinking machine.. hehe.. ... its an easy adaptation..
now for comparison..
gas prices here. gasoline R$1,80 a liter ( about $,57 cents of a dollar a liter, about $2,00 a galoon.).. BRAZIL DOES NOT IMPORT GASOLINE PRICES BUT THEY export it.. so they have to charge the same thing in the country.
now for alcohol (ethanol) R$0,50 cents a liter ( about $,15 cents of a dollar a liter.. about ,63 cents of adollar a galon)
some articles: about bi-fueled cars ( a little old, but yet informative)
http://www.aebrazil.com/highlights/2002/ago/22/46.htm
http://wardsauto.com/ar/transportation_ ... producers/
a much more detailed article..
http://www.mct.gov.br/clima/ingles/comu ... cohol8.htm
THATS IT PEOPLE>>.. maybe the US can start making some alcohol run cars. and produce alcohol. i dunon.. its a MUCH cleaner fuel!.
SAO PAULO, Brazil, Dec 21 (Reuters) - Brazil's producers of ethanol -- and the world's largest sugar growing sector that supplies them -- are shifting their hopes from ethanol exports to domestic demand as "flex fuel" cars become more attractive.
Sales of flex-fuel vehicles, which can be powered by gasoline or sugar-based ethanol, or a mixture of both, are seen soothing public concerns about air pollution and depleting Brazilian oil reserves.
Soaring world crude oil prices higher than $30 a barrel are also adding incentive to use alternative fuels. But growth in Brazil's domestic hydrous alcohol, or ethanol, market is also needed to absorb record sugar cane crops grown by Brazil.
About half of Brazil's huge cane crop is already crushed into ethanol. Otherwise, Brazil, which is the world's No. 1 sugar producer and exporter, would overwhelm the world sugar market and depress prices further.
"We are changing our projections because it's very uncertain when an international (ethanol) market will emerge," Eduardo Pereira de Carvalho, president of the powerful Sao Paulo Cane Agroindustry Union, told Reuters.
Unica represents more than 200 sugar producers in Brazil's center-south, which grows 85 percent of the nation's cane crop.
EXPORT DOUBTS
Brazil ethanol producers have hoped to export to countries like Colombia, India, United States and Japan. But this goal has proven elusive, mainly due to import regulations. High tariffs restrict ethanol imports into the United States, for example.
Worries about global warming also raised Brazil's hopes. But doubts about the ratification of the Kyoto Protocol, which would cut emissions of greenhouse gases and stimulate the use of renewable fuels like ethanol, also depressed producers.
"The opportunities for Brazilian export markets are limited," said Plinio Nastari, president of the Sao Paulo-based Datagro sugar consultant firm. "For this reason I think the domestic market will develop first."
Although Brazil has mixed ethanol with gasoline since 1931, it was only in the 1970s, with the launch of a so-called Pro-Alcohol program amid soaring world oil prices, that ethanol took off.
The government provided incentives to boost cane production and reduce dependence on oil imports. Initially, the emphasis was on blending, but later the government promoted production of vehicles driven exclusively on hydrous alcohol.
But a fall in world oil prices, and a Brazilian ethanol supply shortage in 1989, led to a dramatic drop in sales of ethanol-only cars. Market share of such cars fell to 0.1 percent in 1998 from 96 percent in 1985.
Yet, overall ethanol consumption has remained stable during the past 14 years, due to the increased industrial use of anhydrous alcohol, a chemical counterpart of hydrous alcohol.
"The government's Pro-Alcohol program is finished. But large scale production and consumption continues," Nastari said.
FLEX-FUEL NICHE?
Unica's Carvalho said that sales of flex-fuel cars should become significant in three to four years. Car assemblers, such as Volkswagen and General Motors, have already announced that most of their new models will feature flex-fuel engines.
Some 270,000 of the flex-fuel "green" vehicles are expected to be sold in Brazil in 2004, according to industry forecasts.
When ethanol is more than 40 percent cheaper than gasoline, it becomes attractive to drivers, sugar producers said.
"There's enough cane planted to guarantee supplies at competitive prices," Carvalho said, adding that a big fall in gasoline prices was not expected in coming years.
Carvalho said that a decline in Brazilian ethanol prices in 2002 encouraged drivers to opt for a mixture of hydrous alcohol and gasoline when filling up their tanks. Noting this practice, car assemblers hurried to develop the flex-fuel car.
"We're facing another revolution, which will be as important as Pro-Alcohol, but without government subsidies and entirely dependent on the consumer," Carvalho said.
!!
Alternate Fuel ( Alcohol Fueled Cars)
MORE ON SUGAR CANE ETHANOL and ETHANOL PROPERTIES!
http://www.mct.gov.br/clima/ingles/comu ... cohol3.htm
http://www.mct.gov.br/clima/ingles/comu ... cohol3.htm
I know 7-11 gas stations use 10% ethanol in with the gas. They get a tax credit for that , and they stil charge 2 bucks a gallon! Dam
Pie
Pie
SG Pimp Name : *Treacherous P. Shizzle*
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The fight for our way of life needs to be fought on our own soil, for our own people and because of our own interests.
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Hey, If Me & My Buddies Were Making Billions of Dollars I'd Tell Ya What Ya Wanted To Hear Too!
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The fight for our way of life needs to be fought on our own soil, for our own people and because of our own interests.
*
Hey, If Me & My Buddies Were Making Billions of Dollars I'd Tell Ya What Ya Wanted To Hear Too!
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RoundEye
- Posts: 18219
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 12:00 am
- Location: In a dry but moldy New Orleans, Louisiana
The thing to consider is the EPR (energy profit ratio).
You need to think about how much energy is used to make the fuel, compared to what is produced. Depending on who does the reasearch, some say it's a gain, some say it's a loss.
Check out these links. Here and Here
I'm in no way against alternative fuels, but a lot of people don't ever consider what it takes to produce those fuels, and if it's really a gain or a loss in resources.
From HereDepending on who you consult, ethanol has an EPR ranging from .7 (making it an energy loser) to 1.7. Methanol, made from wood, clocks in at 2.6, better than ethanol, but still far short of oil.
You need to think about how much energy is used to make the fuel, compared to what is produced. Depending on who does the reasearch, some say it's a gain, some say it's a loss.
Check out these links. Here and Here
I'm in no way against alternative fuels, but a lot of people don't ever consider what it takes to produce those fuels, and if it's really a gain or a loss in resources.
Sliding down the banister of life ..........................
I dont live in the us anymore.. here in brazil currently all NEW cars manufactured are flex-fuel ( 100% sugar cane ethanol or 100% gasoline.. or anypercentage of whaetver)..BaLa wrote:how many in the US?
Roundeye: ... yes, some people dont consider how much energy is taken to produce these fuels...
For an example.. just here around my city (200,000 in population).. THE CITY is surround by SUGAR CANE FIELDS...and ethanol industries and so on..
the reason we get ethanol so cheap.. espeacilly around here..
But anyway.. i just wanted to show that it works here. all over brazil .. and we dont have ( at least i dont ) suffer from oil prices. and so on..
plus alcohol cars usually have more power(hp)... since it needs to be runned under high compression engines.. usualy 11:0.... not 8.5:1 like gasoline runned engines..
and also have cleaner emissions.. actually very close to nothing.
thats all i got for now!>.
later!