I m really starting to wonder about this. Will we really go to war?
And if we do, do you think that the gov will start drafting?
Do u think we well go to war?
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jeremyboycool
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Do u think we well go to war?
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking
Re: Do u think we well go to war?
Originally posted by jeremyboycool
I m really starting to wonder about this. Will we really go to war?
And if we do, do you think that the gov will start drafting?
No draft...the chicken hawks have kids and grandkids..
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jeremyboycool
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Immortal
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Originally posted by jeremyboycool
We= USA
They=Irqua
War= Don't know never seen a war have no cule what it is
ok I'm out then..
just iraq.. I thought it was terrorist..
and for war.. don't wanna get into it.. to many diff types of war and too many diff ways to win it.... what kinda war are u talking about... misssles and bombs? how do u think is a win?...
I think we should fly over Iraq with some "Richard Simmons Does JuJitsu poses" pamphlets just to throw them off course.... then bomb em....lol
SG Theme SongThe Devil wrote:Tolerance is a virtue, not a requirement.
yes
because ,if you already didnt know the US wants to control the world,,<<<<for what i dont know...i think the whole (9/11) thing could have been prevented and it wasnt ,,because the US didnt want to stop such a tradegy,,>>so now they can use that (excuse) to invade and goto war at any given time with any country,,
all i see ,,out of all of this ,,that the US is a big bully,,give me OIL or ill punch you in the eye,,give me what i want.... or ill kill you,,
instead the US should start here at home ,,and worry about its people all these damm ghettos,,and clean up the country ,,set and example to the world ,
but NO, it just cant be like that,, can it now!!!
the US must/has 2 own everything and everyone and what they say goes,,,dont you think that is BS
well ,,its a no wonder alot of country's hate the US
this is just Humble Opinion,,just that,,,
all i see ,,out of all of this ,,that the US is a big bully,,give me OIL or ill punch you in the eye,,give me what i want.... or ill kill you,,
instead the US should start here at home ,,and worry about its people all these damm ghettos,,and clean up the country ,,set and example to the world ,
but NO, it just cant be like that,, can it now!!!
the US must/has 2 own everything and everyone and what they say goes,,,dont you think that is BS
well ,,its a no wonder alot of country's hate the US
this is just Humble Opinion,,just that,,,
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Qwijib0
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Re: yes
Originally posted by chester
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
OMG! The commas!
We cannot go against the UN. Whatever we want to do MUST be though the UN or else we lose even more credibility in the world. If the UN decides war, then so be it-- but I don't think that will happen. If we wait and saddam does attack, then we will have the full support of the world behind us. We can't be the bully-- and yes, I think oil is a part of this 'conflict'.
If your browser can't read unicode, you should probably switch!
If you don't really want a serious answer, don't bother reading this...I'll sum it up by saying there's a better than 70 percent chance the U.S. is going to depose Pres. Saddam Hussein by military force.
Pres. Bush has a variety of competing factors to weigh in any decision. Here are some of them.
First, remember that Pres. Bush can still back down and claim victory. This is important. Unlike Saddam Hussein, the U.S. President has an exit door. 1 year ago, you couldn't find a single diplomat or pundit who would dare predict weapons inspectors would ever return to Iraq. They're now solidly back in the country after being withdrawn in 1998 in advance of a military strike to punish the Iraqis.
Yes, the French and Germans will say they 'won' by preventing an attack on Iraq, but their claim that the inspections are working is hollow, because without the credible threat of military action coming from the U.S., there wouldn't be any inspectors in there to begin with.
The pressure for military action is coming from Israel and Kuwait. So long as Saddam Hussein is at the helm, Iraq will continue to pursue his strategy to become the 'Sword' of the Arab world. That doesn't just mean he will develop weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them against Israel, he will also continue to threaten his Arab and Muslim (Iran) neighbors.
While Israel has nuclear, chemical and likely biological weapons as well and does not allow any inspectors, it is not perceived as the same threat because it would only use them defensively and possesses them as a deterrent to attacks. Well, sort of. In the Arab view, it also uses its military superiority to continue the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, seize land for illegal settlements and continue its grip on the Golan Heights (a major water source.)
Kuwait is sick and tired of living under the shadow of Saddam Hussein's threats. The Saudis, too. Neither has a military to match Iraq. Both would like to see U.S. troops leave their soil to prevent being accused of allowing the 'infidels' to occupy their lands. That's a political threat coming from fundamentalists against the corrupt, un-democratic rule they enjoy.
If the U.S. were to decide NOT to finish off Saddam Hussein, the Kuwaitis would be sorely hurt. It would mean they have aggravated Baghdad even more by turning over half their country to U.S. forces to launch the attack. It would mean they would have to host U.S. troops on their soil indefinitely to protect them. They want to get this over and done with.
At the outset, voices within the U.S. Administration (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle & Co.) joined with voices outside (Mideast Peace Negotiator and now head of a pro-Israeli think tank Dennis Ross) to offer up the assessment that it would be over quickly and with scenes of Iraqis dancing in the streets at the demise of a leader they absolutely hate, the Europeans and other doves would be left dumb-struck.
Now, the generals aren't so sure. The route up from Kuwait has a couple of serious problems. Bridging the Tigris and Eurphrates rivers isn't going to be all that easy, folks.
There are two major dams south of Baghdad that Saddam Hussein is expected to destroy. Yes, you can put in airborne but you can't move in the heavy guns without bridges which, again, his forces would destroy to prevent easy access to Baghdad.
Turkey, with a new pseudo-Islamic political party at the helm, is hesitant. We want at least 80-thousand troops ready to roll from the North. They want 20-thousand. It may work if the U.S. can move in and set up its own bases inside Iraq and simply use them. But that takes time, and the U.S. military is being asked to do it all quickly, for political purposes.
Sure, all this "we're gonna fight to the death" rhetoric coming from the Iraqis is just that: talk. There's general consensus his troops simply won't defend him at all. Some will, and inside a city like Baghdad, that could be a major factor.
The Iraqis of 2003 are not the same as the Iraqis of 1991, in that they are much more bitter, more religious and harder. 12 years of sanctions did little to punish Saddam Hussein but devastated the Iraqi people.
The Cost: The last time Saddam Hussein got whipped there was a massive coalition and the Kuwaitis and Saudis picked up the tab. This time U.S. and U.K. taxpayers will foot the bill.
Some people put the tab for this at $80 Billion. Others say it will be a multiple of that. The world economy is in rough shape. Turkey wants economic guarantees. Jordan will need more money. All those "new Europe" states that joined NATO and back the U.S. also expect a payoff down the road. They deserve it, but can the U.S. afford it?
Israel's economy is the worst it's been in 50 years. Already, it's asking for 'loans' of roughly 100 billion over 5 years. That's on top of $5 Billion a year outright in military and economic aid. Congress would likely transform the loans into grants. Again, the U.S. taxpayer gets hit.
The notion that you can use Iraqi oil money to pay the cost may be a long term solution, but it's not perfect. The Iraqi people, themselves, need just about everything. Military analysts already say Saddam Hussein has ordered his troops to rig explosives on the oil wells, power stations, dams etc. to employ a "scorched earth" policy. He isn't going to yield power without making his own people and everyone else pay a dear price. The Iraqi oil industry is already on the ropes and could need $5 Billion and 3 years to rebuild. Who's going to put up the cash to bridge that?
Greenspan hinted to Congress this week that a conflict in Iraq poses a significant risk to the U.S. economic recovery.
Bush has to think this over. His father won the war but lost the election 18-months later because of the economy.
Pres. Bush has a variety of competing factors to weigh in any decision. Here are some of them.
First, remember that Pres. Bush can still back down and claim victory. This is important. Unlike Saddam Hussein, the U.S. President has an exit door. 1 year ago, you couldn't find a single diplomat or pundit who would dare predict weapons inspectors would ever return to Iraq. They're now solidly back in the country after being withdrawn in 1998 in advance of a military strike to punish the Iraqis.
Yes, the French and Germans will say they 'won' by preventing an attack on Iraq, but their claim that the inspections are working is hollow, because without the credible threat of military action coming from the U.S., there wouldn't be any inspectors in there to begin with.
The pressure for military action is coming from Israel and Kuwait. So long as Saddam Hussein is at the helm, Iraq will continue to pursue his strategy to become the 'Sword' of the Arab world. That doesn't just mean he will develop weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them against Israel, he will also continue to threaten his Arab and Muslim (Iran) neighbors.
While Israel has nuclear, chemical and likely biological weapons as well and does not allow any inspectors, it is not perceived as the same threat because it would only use them defensively and possesses them as a deterrent to attacks. Well, sort of. In the Arab view, it also uses its military superiority to continue the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, seize land for illegal settlements and continue its grip on the Golan Heights (a major water source.)
Kuwait is sick and tired of living under the shadow of Saddam Hussein's threats. The Saudis, too. Neither has a military to match Iraq. Both would like to see U.S. troops leave their soil to prevent being accused of allowing the 'infidels' to occupy their lands. That's a political threat coming from fundamentalists against the corrupt, un-democratic rule they enjoy.
If the U.S. were to decide NOT to finish off Saddam Hussein, the Kuwaitis would be sorely hurt. It would mean they have aggravated Baghdad even more by turning over half their country to U.S. forces to launch the attack. It would mean they would have to host U.S. troops on their soil indefinitely to protect them. They want to get this over and done with.
At the outset, voices within the U.S. Administration (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle & Co.) joined with voices outside (Mideast Peace Negotiator and now head of a pro-Israeli think tank Dennis Ross) to offer up the assessment that it would be over quickly and with scenes of Iraqis dancing in the streets at the demise of a leader they absolutely hate, the Europeans and other doves would be left dumb-struck.
Now, the generals aren't so sure. The route up from Kuwait has a couple of serious problems. Bridging the Tigris and Eurphrates rivers isn't going to be all that easy, folks.
There are two major dams south of Baghdad that Saddam Hussein is expected to destroy. Yes, you can put in airborne but you can't move in the heavy guns without bridges which, again, his forces would destroy to prevent easy access to Baghdad.
Turkey, with a new pseudo-Islamic political party at the helm, is hesitant. We want at least 80-thousand troops ready to roll from the North. They want 20-thousand. It may work if the U.S. can move in and set up its own bases inside Iraq and simply use them. But that takes time, and the U.S. military is being asked to do it all quickly, for political purposes.
Sure, all this "we're gonna fight to the death" rhetoric coming from the Iraqis is just that: talk. There's general consensus his troops simply won't defend him at all. Some will, and inside a city like Baghdad, that could be a major factor.
The Iraqis of 2003 are not the same as the Iraqis of 1991, in that they are much more bitter, more religious and harder. 12 years of sanctions did little to punish Saddam Hussein but devastated the Iraqi people.
The Cost: The last time Saddam Hussein got whipped there was a massive coalition and the Kuwaitis and Saudis picked up the tab. This time U.S. and U.K. taxpayers will foot the bill.
Some people put the tab for this at $80 Billion. Others say it will be a multiple of that. The world economy is in rough shape. Turkey wants economic guarantees. Jordan will need more money. All those "new Europe" states that joined NATO and back the U.S. also expect a payoff down the road. They deserve it, but can the U.S. afford it?
Israel's economy is the worst it's been in 50 years. Already, it's asking for 'loans' of roughly 100 billion over 5 years. That's on top of $5 Billion a year outright in military and economic aid. Congress would likely transform the loans into grants. Again, the U.S. taxpayer gets hit.
The notion that you can use Iraqi oil money to pay the cost may be a long term solution, but it's not perfect. The Iraqi people, themselves, need just about everything. Military analysts already say Saddam Hussein has ordered his troops to rig explosives on the oil wells, power stations, dams etc. to employ a "scorched earth" policy. He isn't going to yield power without making his own people and everyone else pay a dear price. The Iraqi oil industry is already on the ropes and could need $5 Billion and 3 years to rebuild. Who's going to put up the cash to bridge that?
Greenspan hinted to Congress this week that a conflict in Iraq poses a significant risk to the U.S. economic recovery.
Bush has to think this over. His father won the war but lost the election 18-months later because of the economy.
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YARDofSTUF
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I seriously doubt there will be a draft...warfare has changed since vietnam, hell its changed since the gulf war. Even then we didn't draft. Its more stratigic now, with air strikes then spec forces (specificially trained) then they send in men to set up bases.
I seriously think that we will hit em air destroy ALL of their defences, by then half or more of their "ARMY" will have jumped ship and then we will send in the MARINES...
Hopefully this will minimize deaths for both sides...especially the US and civilians that will be involved....
I seriously think that we will hit em air destroy ALL of their defences, by then half or more of their "ARMY" will have jumped ship and then we will send in the MARINES...
Hopefully this will minimize deaths for both sides...especially the US and civilians that will be involved....
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Ghosthunter
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Joint Chiefs of Staff
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Yes this is your opinion but you are going to be wrong about this. More like 5 years. I'm saying this because if and when the US and the Allies go into Iraq it's going to be Urban Warfare both in Iraq and at home. Let's not forget about other countries coming out of the woodwork willing to assist Iraq on the sly and then we'll have to deal with that too. hmmmm France and GermanyOriginally posted by davy19
IMO war will only last less then 5 days.
>>Cult Master of International Affairs<<
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Ghosthunter
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Originally posted by Joint Chiefs Of Staff
Yes this is your opinion but you are going to be wrong about this. More like 5 years. I'm saying this because if and when the US and the Allies go into Iraq it's going to be Urban Warfare both in Iraq and at home. Let's not forget about other countries coming out of the woodwork willing to assist Iraq on the sly and then we'll have to deal with that too. hmmmm France and Germany
I think Iraq military is going to jump ship..once they see the fight is over after 5 days of being pounded
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Joint Chiefs of Staff
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Originally posted by davy19
Yes we will be going to war by around March, and no there wont be a draft becuase IMO war will only last less then 5 days.
Ummm..ok..I feel I must disagee......the draft part..Rumsfield already insulted a ton of Viet Nam vets by saying the drafted in that war contributed little..Not something that old coot would say to my face...jail time or no jail time...
We are not going to have one because for one...we have plenty of recuits right now...and for two.....
The chickenhawks don't want their own kids and grandkids involved.
Originally posted by davy19
I think Iraq military is going to jump ship..once they see the fight is over after 5 days of being pounded
thats what they said about Yougoslavia = 2 weeks and job is done.
Took them almost 1 year and Yougoslavia didnt have 30% of military power what Iraq have,+ its totally different region.
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jeremyboycool
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Originally posted by Joint Chiefs Of Staff
Yes this is your opinion but you are going to be wrong about this. More like 5 years. I'm saying this because if and when the US and the Allies go into Iraq it's going to be Urban Warfare both in Iraq and at home. Let's not forget about other countries coming out of the woodwork willing to assist Iraq on the sly and then we'll have to deal with that too. hmmmm France and Germany
I think that if we do go to war I would have to agree with JCOS about the time frame. Iraq has a strong leader. With people that belive in him. And the resourse to back up a war.
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Ghosthunter
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Originally posted by rivas
thats what they said about Yougoslavia = 2 weeks and job is done.
Took them almost 1 year and Yougoslavia didnt have 30% of military power what Iraq have,+ its totally different region.
Iraq is different...
Most of the military dont support saddam,, but too scared to do anything about it themselves...
when all hell breaks loose, things will be different.
Originally posted by davy19
Iraq is different...
Most of the military dont support saddam,, but too scared to do anything about it themselves...
when all hell breaks loose, things will be different.
hrm, u was there when u know it ?
personally i think the military, iraqui population will rather die than go for/with us.
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Ghosthunter
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Originally posted by AngelofDeath
Yep.
You know they say we could fly over and drop a big EMP and disable all/most of their things.
Why don't we just do that ??
Think that is the plan
that is why i think war wil be less then 5 days...
the major battles that is, there will still be a few skirmishes here and there..
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Joint Chiefs of Staff
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An EMP blast will only disrupt comms. It won't disable small arms, mortars, cannons etc.Originally posted by davy19
Think that is the plan
that is why i think war wil be less then 5 days...
the major battles that is, there will still be a few skirmishes here and there..
>>Cult Master of International Affairs<<
Originally posted by Joint Chiefs Of Staff
An EMP blast will only disrupt comms. It won't disable small arms, mortars, cannons etc.
exactly
did any of u seen Black hawk down ? Its based on true story.Its almost same region.They beat up us special forces with empty hands in their city.They were totally useless ...could do really nothing.
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Ghosthunter
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This is what I was referring to actually:
http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/67521.htm
New microwave bomb
This wont take everythign out...but it will definitely cuase enough chaos that will help us.
http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/67521.htm
New microwave bomb
This wont take everythign out...but it will definitely cuase enough chaos that will help us.
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Docsta
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what most Americans dont know is...that we are at war 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. And if one thinks we wont go to war with Iraq, that one is a total idiot.
If anyone thinks Bush gives a flyin rats ass about the UN, that someone is wrong too. Bush is doing these useless UN bs talks just to cover his back so these useless anti-war protestors will stay off his back, and so they cant say he didnt take the "right" steps.
The fact is, the U.S will go to war with anyone it pleases, anytime it pleases, the US answers to noone but ourselfs. No one tells the United States what we can and cannot do. Its always been that way. We will do what we wanna do. PERIOD.
Oh and France and Germany are totally useless nations. Bunch of backstabbing bastards. If it werent for us the French would be speaking German right now...but what does that douche bag Chirac do? Turns on us, because he's in bed with Saddam, and says we should give the weapons inspectors more time.
MORE TIME = Another attack on the US. If we wait..more innocent Americans will die. I guarantee you, if the Eiffel Tower or the Palace of Versailles, was hit by an airplane and thousands of French people died...that moron Chirac over there would be right behind us in the war on Islamic Radicals. But nooo...France didnt get attacked...so he can sit over there saying we should give them more time.... And Germany...After we're done with Iraq...I say we kick their sorry asses again..Useless bastards.
If anyone thinks Bush gives a flyin rats ass about the UN, that someone is wrong too. Bush is doing these useless UN bs talks just to cover his back so these useless anti-war protestors will stay off his back, and so they cant say he didnt take the "right" steps.
The fact is, the U.S will go to war with anyone it pleases, anytime it pleases, the US answers to noone but ourselfs. No one tells the United States what we can and cannot do. Its always been that way. We will do what we wanna do. PERIOD.
Oh and France and Germany are totally useless nations. Bunch of backstabbing bastards. If it werent for us the French would be speaking German right now...but what does that douche bag Chirac do? Turns on us, because he's in bed with Saddam, and says we should give the weapons inspectors more time.
MORE TIME = Another attack on the US. If we wait..more innocent Americans will die. I guarantee you, if the Eiffel Tower or the Palace of Versailles, was hit by an airplane and thousands of French people died...that moron Chirac over there would be right behind us in the war on Islamic Radicals. But nooo...France didnt get attacked...so he can sit over there saying we should give them more time.... And Germany...After we're done with Iraq...I say we kick their sorry asses again..Useless bastards.
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Ghosthunter
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Originally posted by Docsta
what most Americans dont know is...that we are at war 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. And if one thinks we wont go to war with Iraq, that one is a total idiot.
If anyone thinks Bush gives a flyin rats ass about the UN, that someone is wrong too. Bush is doing these useless UN bs talks just to cover his back so these useless anti-war protestors will stay off his back, and so they cant say he didnt take the "right" steps.
The fact is, the U.S will go to war with anyone it pleases, anytime it pleases, the US answers to noone but ourselfs. No one tells the United States what we can and cannot do. Its always been that way. We will do what we wanna do. PERIOD.
Amen to that, since that is the way it should be.
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Docsta
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Originally posted by davy19
Amen to that, since that is the way it should be.
I added more Davy.
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Docsta
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Originally posted by downhill
You could tone the wording down a bit Docsta......again, your welcome to an opinion.....but this is still a PG13 site.....comprehend?
No hablo Englais?
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Originally posted by Docsta
what most Americans dont know is...that we are at war 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. And if one thinks we wont go to war with Iraq, that one is a total idiot.
If anyone thinks Bush gives a flyin rats ass about the UN, that someone is wrong too. Bush is doing these useless UN bs talks just to cover his back so these useless anti-war protestors will stay off his back, and so they cant say he didnt take the "right" steps.
The fact is, the U.S will go to war with anyone it pleases, anytime it pleases, the US answers to noone but ourselfs. No one tells the United States what we can and cannot do. Its always been that way. We will do what we wanna do. PERIOD.
Oh and France and Germany are totally useless nations. Bunch of backstabbing bastards. If it werent for us the French would be speaking German right now...but what does that douche bag Chirac do? Turns on us, because he's in bed with Saddam, and says we should give the weapons inspectors more time.
MORE TIME = Another attack on the US. If we wait..more innocent Americans will die. I guarantee you, if the Eiffel Tower or the Palace of Versailles, was hit by an airplane and thousands of French people died...that moron Chirac over there would be right behind us in the war on Islamic Radicals. But nooo...France didnt get attacked...so he can sit over there saying we should give them more time.... And Germany...After we're done with Iraq...I say we kick their sorry asses again..Useless bastards.
lol this post makes me laugh ....how arogant and stupid americans really r.DO u even know whats behind your house ?I bet u dont
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Docsta
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Originally posted by rivas
lol this post makes me laugh ....how arogant and stupid americans really r.DO u even know whats behind your house ?I bet u dont
I see you cutting down Americans here...then I thought to myself....he must be one of those canadian people. Come to find out... Canada, one useless icebox. Maybe if you build a military that has a set of balls, then maybe you can talk some sh** Talk about a useless country.
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