LAN PARTY:need advice.

[Sturtz]

Hiya ,

My online WWII flight-sim buddies are finally getting together for a private 3 day LAN-meet after all these years.
Flying and driving in from all over the States next month.
So I want to make sure everything is perfect well in advance.

There will be ( 12 to 14 ) PCs to network.
Here's the equipment list.
1 Linksys 4-port router
1 Linksys 8-port switch
1 Linksys 5-port switch
1 Linksys 4-port hub (if needed)
10/100 Nic cards in all machines
Plenty of Cat5 and supplies to make extra.

My questions on this matter are::::::::::::

1. We have a Cox Cable connection. (one IP) Could that many computers share an online conx to a pay site server like Aces High or Warbirds?

2. What is the best way to hookup this system?(Step by Step)
At this point, we have only hooked up 3 PCs from the cable modem to the router. (Cable modem out to WAN-port on router then to PCs) We are able to get on and fly on the net game servers without any trouble after opening the proper ports.

All machines are running Win98se or WinXP.
All machines are at least P-III/AMD Athlon 800 and up.

I build PCs for a living, but I'm a bit unsure on a few of these networking steps. I don't want to plug something in wrong.

Thank in advance.

[YeOldeStonecat]

I used to be involved in setting up many larger LAN parties, up to a hundred peeps. But these were for FPS games, where we had our own server(s) at the LAN.

I'm not sure what games you'll be playing, or how they're run...meaning, will you have your own local server? Or have to all log onto the internet, and play out the router on a publically hosted server.

Generally, if you're having more than 10 peeps at a LAN, you want a full blown server OS, such as NT 4.0 server, or Win2K server. Reason being...a desktop OS (Win95/98/ME/2KPro/XPpro)....they are all designed to handle up to 10 concurrent connections optimally. Server OS's are designed to handle many more. Take 2x identicle rigs in hardware, put a desktop OS on one, a server OS on the other. Have varying amounts of clients log into each...and compare online performance. You'll see the desktop OS start to crumble at a certain point, and the server OS keep on going without breaking a sweat.

You'll want to run a dedicated server also, not run a server on a computer that you're also going to game on.

The computer that will be your server...get a quality NIC in there...I believe in 3COM 9XX series, or Intel Pro series. BIG difference in performance under loads between good quality hardware controlled NICs, and el-cheapo 20 dollar NICs. For huge LAN parties, a full blown server class NIC is a must...have over a hundred peeps connect, and pings are still rock stable across the board.

Connections...you want your best, highest quality switch at the top of the tree for your LAN...server plugged into that, other hubs/switches cascaded from that. If a hub must be used...have it at the bottom of the tree. Try to keep it all switches. If someone can bring a "higher end" switch to the part to have at the top of the tree...try to get them to bring it. A nice 3COM or Netgear. The Linksys is decent, but I've seen them get wobbly in the knees under heavy loads...it's an entry level brand.

Sharing your internet connection through the router...performance...well, that will vary due to several factors.

One is your actual broadband connection...what it actually tests out at. I don't know what type of bandwidth your game uses, but most broadband connections will let up to say 6-8 peeps play until your download pipe is maxed out. Again, this varies per game, and what your actual benchmarked performance is for your connection.

Another factor is your router. I work with many type of routers, and have had many at home testing with gaming. Linksys is a very basic entry level router. You'll find that one person playing online gets a certain ping to your favorite game server, say 60. Have a second player log on...and your router gets a bit more load, now pings are at say 70. Have a third person log in, more of a load for your router, now pings climb up to 100 or more. Have a 4th person log in...all pings now around 200. Now you're taxed your routers CPU. Get a slightly better router, like a Netgear...similar things happen, but not as much of a ping increase because it's a better router, better CPU inside, etc. Then I tried a honkin Netopia R series router...and I could have 6 peeps play, and the cool thing was...each additional person that logged on did not introduce lag to anyone else.....the router wasn't even breaking a sweat. Not until I got past 6 players did I get a lag climb...and by doing my math, that was because I wasn't taxing the router, but I was maxing out my DSL download pipe.

DHCP service on your router should handle TCP/IP for all players fine. Keep NetBEUI and IPX stripped off all machines....you don't want un-needed protocols clogging your network....keep it lean and mean for best game play.

Glad to provide any input or help...

[Sturtz]

Thank you for the fast reply Stonecat.
I'll try to answer your questions so you can help me a bit more.

The games we will be playing (except for one) are non-dedicated server type flight sims. They are generally hosted by a player with a good machine on a broadband conx. Or the games are hosted by a major online server company like IEN or HiTechcreations. At this time there is not a dedicated host selection. So the host plays at the same time. Or he runs a second machine , limits his view to a menu screen or another view that will take less cpu/graphics load from the game and joins the game on another PC and plays along.

I've built 3 new machines just for this LAN party so our fly-in guests will have a PC. The host has several others for those flying in as well. The others from nearby states are bringing their own systems. We will still be right at the limit or maybe even short a PC or two. (Share and share alike. You always need a bartender, right?)

I was also hoping to get the complete step by step in hooking this all up correctly. Which port to what uplink on each router or switch, etc , etc.
I realize the Linksys stuff is cheap. The area Cisco director at the tech school I attended brought this to our attention long ago.
I wish now I would have attended the networking courses.

So, in closing until I hear more from you. I will not be able to run this 12 to 14 person LAN without::::::::::::
1. A dedicated server_ with at least a Win2k OS ?
2. A high-end ethernet card in the server?
3. Only TCP/IP configuations running on each machine ?
4. A higher-end router ?
5. Is this a good network card?=(3COM 3CR990-TX-97 10/100 Secure NIC - OEM 10BASE-T/100BASE-TX. Connectors: RJ-45. Bus: 32-bit PCI. Encryption: 168-bit 3DES, 56-bit DES, MD5, SHA-1. Processor: ARM 9 RISC. Operating distance (10BASE-T): Category 3/4/5 UTP up to 100 m (328 ft). Operating distance (100BASE-T): Category 5 UTP up to 100 m (328 ft). IEEE compliance: 802.3, 802.3u, 802.2, 802.1p, 802.1Q, 802.1 GMRP. Standards compliance: PCI 2.1/2.2, DMI 2.0, WfM 1.0)

Thanks again for your first reply. If I have to do all this to have the LAN you might not see me in here for awhile because I'll be broke from buying all the extra equipment. LOL

As mentioned above, I'd still like the step by step on cable placement just to be sure. I know some routers and switches use the same uplink and port wiring. Also I was told to run a separate cable from a router port to each switch. But I'm unsure about which ports to hook to what.

I really didn't think all this would be so tough after reading LAN party forums for the last month. I thunk wrong I guess.

[YeOldeStonecat]

You don't need to buy a server OS....I'm just informing that server OS's perform much better....take my advice this way.....if you wish to do these LAN parties more often...then look into trying to get a server, with a server OS, and server class hardware. Such as the 3COM 990 XP NIC you linked...I have that in my big server which ran as a public gaming server for a year or so, and served up at some big LAN parties. It's a dual PIII CPU rig that had NT 4.0 Server on it at the time. Ran great.

But if this is just a one time deal, then take a look at the pile of NICs that you have in there....perhaps there's a 3COM 905, or an Intel Pro 10/100...those are desktop NIC's, but will be much better than your average 19 dollar NIC.

I'm not saying a "server" running Win2KPro will not work, and I'm not saying if it has some 20 dollar NIC that it won't work. It all boils down to a level of expected performance. Years ago we started out doing smaller LAN parties with just any old Win98 box with any mix of hardware. Then as LAN parties grew, demands grew, and our knowledge of hardware grew. And as quality of the "server" increased, so did performance. Have a full blown NT Server with a 100 dollar 3COM 990 NIC in there....and wether you have 10 peeps connect, or a hundred peeps connect...pings across the board stick at 10ms or so. Try that with a regular old desktop, with a standard NIC, running Win98 or 2KPro, and it does well up to say 10 or so peeps...couple of more log on, you'll notice pings climb a bit....get a few more on....pretty soon pings are too high, or a lock up. But you're having 12-14 peeps...by the time the actual day arrives, prolly 10-12 peeps really make it. So no need to pour money into it like that.

By dedicated server, I mean nobody plays on it. Performance is always MUCH better when nobody is playing on it..that way the CPU can focus on dealing with all the clients, and not in dealing with graphics and input/output of someone playing on that computer itself. Ideally console/text only versions of the server program are best....as least system intensive. But as you mentioned, you run this game in graphics mode...just shrinking the window. Have that system tweaked out, leaned out, no anti-virus running, the absolute latest drivers installed for the chipset, and for the network card. Visit http://www.tweak3d.net for some tweaking readups.

[Sturtz]

Whew ! Thanks again.
I thought I was really going to have to spend more money on this deal than first expected.
I'm just doing this LAN once. The thought of doing big LAN parties for profit gives me headache.
I'm sure glad I asked about all this here first.

Now to see if I got this right. Let me know Sir.

Dedicated server-out to WAN- in of router ?

Router-out via uplink? or port (not port closest to uplink) to uplink of switch?

Switch-out to PCs via ports (except port closest to uplink?

Additional switch or hubs from switch-out via free port ?

Online gaming selection will be a hit or miss deal ? Just depends on game/bandwidth, etc ?

[YeOldeStonecat]

Heh, no LAN party will yield a profit. We rented a big convention hall on the last one, plus special built the dual CPU server for it. Borrowed 3x Cisco Catalyst switches, with all fiber optic uplinks, and fiber to the server with a fiber NIC.

Dedicated server to a LAN port on the biggest switch..I would do. Just leave your cable modem in the WAN port of the router so everyone can have internet access out your router. All the Linksys products have an uplink port at the end...so standard patch cable on the uplink port...to any of the next switch.

Basically, I'd start with your 8 port switch at the top of the tree. Server into port #1. That leaves you with 7 ports

Take your 5 port switch, uplink port of the 5 port switch into port #2 on the 8 port switch. That leaves you with 4 ports on the 5 port switch to plug 5 computers directly into.

Your other 4 port router....take it's uplink port...and plug into port #3 on the 8 port switch...now you have another 4 ports if needed, but try not to use them. Leave your cable modem plugged into the WAN port of the router...and this becomes your gateway for the entire LAN party to get internet access. It also acts as your DHCP server, handing out all the IP info in the scheme of 192.168.1.XXX where xxx is a number starting at 100...on up from there.

Take your 4 port hub...take it's uplink port, and connect to your 8 port switch in port #4.

Most hub/switches now have very easy to figure out link lights....work with your cables until you see the lights light up. You should be able to use all standard straight cables, and not use crossover cables, because all of your hubs/switches should have an uplink port. Basically, it's always 1x uplink port to 1x standard port with a straight cable. Crossover cables are usually for hubs/switches without an uplink option. The uplink option just takes care of the crossover from within the port itself. On many Linksys models, the last port of it's hub/switch has an "either/or" function...meaning either use as a standard port, or use the one right next to it as an uplink port. But don't use both at the same time.

In the above setup, you should be able to plug 4x players into the 4 remaining ports on your 8 port switch, another 4 players into the 5 port switch, another 2 or 3 into the router, and another 2 or 3 into the hub....try to load up the hub instead of the router...yes a hub is slower, but with only 2 or 3 peeps connected to it, really doesn't matter. You want the router to only connect to the internet...leave it's CPU solely for that job.

[Sturtz]

YeOldeStonecat

You sir have saved me and probably several others some time by answering my post in this detailed way.
I know I could have made it all work in the end. But from reading your step by step approach I know it wouldn't have been correct or 100% for what I'm wanting to do at this LAN. And I'm sure everyone agrees that you want the fastest, smoothest low ping gaming you can get when setting up one of these parties.

I'm saving this thread and linking it to some other network forums that could really use it as well.

I hope at least a few of us can connect with decent pings to our WWII flight sim servers.
On the other hand, I'm sure we can connect just fine with the in-house dedicated server type LAN setup you've supplied.
That should keep'em happy for awhile.

One last question I swear........................

Will others be able to connect to our LAN from outside the setup ?

Thank you and God bless.

[YeOldeStonecat]

Originally posted by Sturtz

One last question I swear........................

Will others be able to connect to our LAN from outside the setup ?

Yes they can....usually, depending on what game you are using. I'm not familiar with flight sims yet...although very much getting into MSCFS2. Soon as I'm finished moving home this coming week, I fully intend on getting back into it, and flying it alot online. They started a flight sim club here on this forum not too long ago, hopefully there's still a bit of interest. What you have to do, is figure out which ports the game uses. On the router, you forward those ports to the IP address of the "server" in your LAN.

Preferred method of setting up the IP address of the server...is going "static"..meaning, on the server, don't use the DHCP service of the router by setting TCP/IP to obtain auto, but rather, manually assing it a fixed IP address, with a fixed gateway, and fixed DNS. You're using a Linksys router, so give the server an IP address of 192.168.1.11, 255.255.255.0 subnet mask. Make it's gateway 192.168.1.1, and make it's DNS server also 192.168.1.1. Leave WINS disabled.

Now, on the router, again, I don't know which port(s) your flight sim uses, but lets use Quake 3 for an example. Quake 3 uses port 27960 I believe, so on your routers web admin page, the Advanced tab, forwarding section, you'll set 27960-27960 to IP 192.168.1.11

If you're using a Microsoft flight sim...I've seen some problems trying to get Microsoft games working from behind routers. What you could try is setting the server's IP in what's called DMZ....which means, every single port on the server is hung out naked....wiiiiiide open. So for that day or so, you'll be open to hackers. As long as file and print sharing is disabled...you're somewhat safer. You don't need F&P sharing loaded to serve up games.

Signing off for the night...

[monty]

A 1 GHz, 256 RAM laptop with Linux on it always makes a nice server at LAN parties.

For games that don't have a Linux-server port, you can get some of them to run a dedicated server under Wine or WineX; I did that for the Soldier of Fortune 2 Multiplayer Test.

[jasonpi]

sorry missed all that

[Sturtz]

The dedicated server programs in most of the WWII flight sims I use are not Linux, Redhat or DOS based. You can run a 24-7 d-server on dogfight modes though. Meaning you host a preset map with ground targets , etc that you add and a max of 16 to 32 people can join and leave at random.
Mostly air combat sorties, you have the option of quitting or grabbing another plane of your choice after you land or die.
But still, the server runs the game graphics , sound, etc , whether you fly on the server or not.
Most set their server screen to a text page or plane choice page to reduce cpu and ram usage.

For the most part since my local friends and I that are hosting this LAN have busted arse just to get enough extra machines for the guests flying in . I'll probably be hosting alot of the time on my PC.
I'll bartend and keep an eye on the network I quess.

http://www.lanparty.com
Has a some good reading on hosting a LAN.