Excellent Pro-Life video - Imagine (NBC rejected Superbowl vid)

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:28 pm

Humboldt wrote:Not saying an abortion should occur just because of mental handicaps, just that in some cases I feel it may be a viable option.

If my sister is raped, or yours, should she have no choice but to give birth?

I can't condone an abortion, under any circumstance, I feel very strongly about it. That is my position on the topic.

RoscoPColtrane · Post by **RoscoPColtrane** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:04 pm

Paft wrote:
You and everyone who believes like you are the entire reason that women's liberation and women's rights had to be fought for so damn hard, and still do! You and your ilk, the good ol' boys club, treat women like **** and feel like that's ok to do!

Get the **** out of my country.

Edited...

RoscoPColtrane · Post by **RoscoPColtrane** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:08 pm

Paft wrote:I am so sick and tired of these ignorant jackasses who think they're so damn special just because they have the "Almighty Penis" and/or their "God" on their side trying to pass judgement on women for making the choices that they feel like they have to in life. They talk about the declining morals in society, and yet won't take the time to look at their own lives or belief structures to see how damaging they are, no, instead they just pass judgement on everyone else and act all superior and perfect. So no, I'm not going to chill out, because why should I (a decent human being) stand by and let evil people have the soapbox?

LMAO, you are a piece of work you know that?

And i find it funny, your first part of this nonsense is EXACTLY why i haven't been to church in like 4 years. Judgement, and may i ask exactly what you are doing with this post? Judging me...and Brent....and anyone who doesn't agree with your 'new age' bullshit...

JawZ · Post by **JawZ** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:35 pm

Does anyone in this thread want the government to make thier decisions for them? Why do we need the government to decide the abortion debate for us?

YARDofSTUF · Post by **YARDofSTUF** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:02 pm

UOD wrote:Does anyone in this thread want the government to make thier decisions for them? Why do we need the government to decide the abortion debate for us?

Brent probably does. lol

jeremyboycool · Post by **jeremyboycool** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:04 am

De Plano wrote:Never mind, don't want to insult folks beliefs

I do agree if you are going to think of potential, you may as well put Dahmer in there also

You had a very valid point; but I can understand the edit.

ub3r_n00b · Post by **ub3r_n00b** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:54 am

Man, you guys bicker about such small things. Everyone pretty much agrees, yet there is still argument. /shrug.

Brent wrote:There is never a point in which abortion would be ok.

1) don't bring god into it, because what "god" believes in is completely relative to the person who is talking

2) your statement there is because of your own inability to be omnisicent (and humans in general). The fact is because we are unable to see all ends (although some of the wise have a pretty good chance at doing so) we are unable to determine if the life in question should be saved, or should not be saved (I could quote LOTR here, but I think that would discredit my statement). If you could forsee that this child was going to be born into a life of poverty and crime, would resort to crime, and would end up killing a bunch of people or selling crack to kids - then in my opinion - that person died before he was born. However, we can't see that, which is probably a good thing.

Additionally, I think that there is an inherent irony in the whole abortion situation. That is, only the rich can afford to have them, and the poor, who are having tonnes of children, can't afford to have them. Additionally, the rich, who have the education (well this is a little bit debatable right now in the states) and know about safe sex are the ones that make these "mistakes" while the poor just deal.

Anyways, im done with this subject :P.

woo-sa, woo-sa...

9mmprincess · Post by **9mmprincess** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:33 am

Brent wrote:Back to the mentally handicapped question, no way should you abort a baby just because of this. Steven Hawking is mentally handicapped, look what would he has accomplished with his life, now imagine if his mother decided to abort him because she knew he would end up like that. The problem is we think we have the power to play God. If a child is going to be mentally handicapped deal with it, you've got that child for a reason, love that child, they can still do great things with their lives.

Steven Hawking is not mentally handicapped, he has ALS, motor neuron disease. A very small portion of people with ALS develop dementia at some point - most are perfectly fine mentally. Hawking is obviously more than fine, he's pretty much a genius.

I think it's pretty easy for you, as a man, to sit there and say a woman or young girl should be forced to have a child in the case of rape and incest. You really think it's in the best interest of everyone if a twelve year old girl gives birth to a baby fathered by HER father? Can you not imagine what it feels like for that girl, to have her father's baby inside her? How it'll feel every day she has to look at it? Or what about how the child will feel, when it grows up to find out how it came into the world?

downhill · Post by **downhill** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:42 am

RoscoPColtrane wrote:You got that right. This country's morals are so screw up its not even funny...

A retorical question. IYHO, which country's morals are better?

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:30 am

Chicago..

..or New York?

9mmprincess · Post by **9mmprincess** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:42 am

I missed dinner, and they both look amazing. I prefer thin crust pizza though.

Post by **YeOldeStonecat** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:59 am

9mmprincess wrote:I missed dinner, and they both look amazing. I prefer thin crust pizza though.

Same here!

Although last nights huge plate of sashimi was excellent. And I had a plate of Tigers Tears (a Thai appetizer)

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:00 am

amazing, some of the views in here on human life....

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:07 am

9mmprincess wrote:I missed dinner, and they both look amazing. I prefer thin crust pizza though.

I prefer a thin crust myself even being a Chicagoan however, I like Midwest cheese better. So a thin crust with the gooey, Wisconsin Mozzarella & sausage!

Post by **Philip** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:04 pm

Brent wrote:There is never a point in which abortion would be ok.

There are other issues that spring to mind...:

What about early abortion if you have to do it to protect the life of the mother ? (life for a life)... Aren't you playing God by denying health service to the mother, if you could save her ? It's still a choice.

How do you feel about the woman's right to choose to prevent a pregnancy ? In other words, do you feel that women should be given meaningful access to health services to prevent unintended pregnancies ? How about sex education in schools ?

How do you feel about reproductive health services ? Are we playing God by artificially creating life ?

In general, should the government step in and enforce the views of a group of people on everyone ?

A_old · Post by **A_old** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:16 pm

my vote is for haribo gummy candy over other brands. for sure.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:35 pm

Amro wrote:my vote is for haribo gummy candy over other brands. for sure.

it's the dark chocolate M&M's that does it for me

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:40 pm

UOD wrote: Why do we need the government to decide the abortion debate for us?

which ever way somebody leans on abortion ,(to each his own)

I agree this is the issue UOD

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:16 pm

We can argue in this forum all day long, but we all know none of us are going to change our minds on this topic based on these posts. That's fine, I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe, let's all have a slice of pizza and enjoy our time together.

RoscoPColtrane · Post by **RoscoPColtrane** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:30 pm

downhill wrote:A retorical question. IYHO, which country's morals are better?

Fair question, I don't know whose are better. however just because others suck too doesn't mean we should toss ours out the window...

Post by **Philip** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:46 pm

Brent wrote:We can argue in this forum all day long, but we all know none of us are going to change our minds on this topic based on these posts. That's fine, I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe, let's all have a slice of pizza and enjoy our time together.

Just for the record, I respect your opinion and wasn't trying to change your mind, just sharing some related issues that merit some thought, since you feel so strongly about it.

Agreed on the pizza, Chicago style for me plz

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:10 pm

Philip wrote:Just for the record, I respect your opinion and wasn't trying to change your mind, just sharing some related issues that merit some thought, since you feel so strongly about it.

Agreed on the pizza, Chicago style for me plz

You are all but too kind

SeedOfChaos · Post by **SeedOfChaos** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:37 pm

If anyone cares...

I think the transition from "lump of cells" to "baby human being" is when it's no longer stemcells but specialised cells such as brain cells appear. Do I claim to know the truth? Of course not. It's just what I think.

I think the German solution is alright - legal until the 9th week, and only after thorough counceling - showing the pro life options, which are plentyful. Show the women what options they have, such as organizing support from family and government agencies or even giving the kid up for adoption, and then let them make an informed choice.

This way a lot more babies make it to birth than by just outlawing abortion, I think.

ub3r_n00b · Post by **ub3r_n00b** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:12 pm

Yeah but what if you don't know till after the 9th week? What is that, about 2 months in? Could happen. Good idea though.

SeedOfChaos · Post by **SeedOfChaos** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:36 pm

Well, if you don't rag, test. It's as simple as that. Usually it's a cycle of four weeks. After 8 weeks, you should know what's up. Everyone has that much education in our schools before puberty. Also, as I said, there are other options, including adoption. Exceptions exist for medical reasons, for example when the mother's life is in danger.

Does it prevent illegal abortions from happening, or people travelling to other countries where it's legal? No, of course not. But I think it's the sensible policy.

jeremyboycool · Post by **jeremyboycool** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:34 am

UOD wrote:I don't follow the rationalization of abortion with potentially abhorrent behavior. We can't predict bad behavior yet. If you say we can't predict good behavior, then are we all bad but constrained by morality to act good? This brings up the entire are we all inherently good or evil debate.

there are many tests that are performed on fetuses to detect abnormalities. What happens when we get to the point where other abnormal traits/behaviors can be predicted? For example, homosexuality. Do we cleanse the gene pool of those traits through abortion? The top 5 serial killers were all homosexuals...and most serial killers in general were homosexual/bisexual/lesbians. So I don't understand why the homosexual community would rationalize the debate over potentially bad bahavior. Logically it works against them...especially when there are homosexual Catholics.

Potential is the key word here. Does potential speak to behavior or achievement? Do we live in fear of potential of do we live in anticipation of and work towards achievement?

Again, what I love about this video is that it causes great debate....on our level. I will fight to the death to defend your right to have your own beliefs. I do not believe in granting this right to the government. I can easily defend your rights, your right to live, your right to die, your right to have an abortion, your right to be a homosexual and to marry.....but I don't have to agree with your beliefs.

IMO, abortion is not a function of government.

Is that a reasonable approach to the matter?

Your argument is a scarecrow. You propose, via a miss-association, a possible threat then proceed to goad. Is that really how you want people to make important ethical decision; with straw man arguments and flashy dramatization? All you have really given us is another with if. Do you think people will do away with the “straight gene” just because all KKK members (I wonder who really holds that kill record) are straight?

The conflict that exists around homosexuality is not about a homo gene. It is the effect of a hateful aspect of human nature; an aspect that is slowly finding itself under its own targeting. And I am sure if humankind ever achieved that type of behavioral mastery, then despite all that is said and done today it would still be abused. You can not prevent the evil of humans you can only endure it.

But at any rate, I think it would be foolish to attempt a purge of homosexuality; that any family of that mentality will find their bloodline running thinner then thinner. Homosexuality is not an abnormality as popular opinion suggest; it is very common, just repressed. But, of the eventually of everything we cannot really say. If homosexuality could be removed and what this would mean I wouldn’t know. However, I don’t find that uncertainty empowering enough to decree dictation of morality.

Now, we could enumerate what ifs all day and night; some may have merit and some may not. But, the real question of abortion is the value of human life. At what point does the fetus get the rank of human? Is heir to the throne enough make it human or is it non-human until it ascends to the throne? Is just having human flesh enough? Does that mean a dead human is still empowered with the same glory as a live human? Of course it is not as simple as that; in this case the start is endowed with more then the end. But it does elucidate the point, that there is more to being human then just having human flesh.

Also this argument of potentialities shines on an interesting facet of capital punishment. If we want to talk about goodness and potentiality, then to turn around a criminal, instead of killing them, is, in some aspects, even a greater boon then bringing a new life into the world. When you right a wrong you get double payback, you remove an evil and bring a good; just something to think about.

But, in this day and age you have to believe in the goodness of humankind; faith is not just for gods. It is on this faith that I reject your post (not the government part).

jeremyboycool · Post by **jeremyboycool** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:47 am

Brent wrote:Abortion is one topic that can really get me fired up cause it advocates murder of an innocent baby who has absolutely no control in the matter. Who are we to play God. It is ok to kill babies, but we have laws that protect killing adults, it is messed up.

"Who are we to play God"

God is all-powerful right? And all-knowing right? If an all-powerful and all-knowing entity did not want abortion to happen then it would not, right? Perhaps God want us to use abortion, if not why has it not stopped us yet? Maybe it wants us to "play God"; to make our own choices; to rule our own lives. Maybe that is why it gave us this aptitude for science. We are not playing God we are playing human. If we are guilty of killing babies then so is God for knowingly sending a "baby" to its death. Perhaps we should just leave God out of this, as the ways of such a being is far beyond us.

jeremyboycool · Post by **jeremyboycool** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:24 am