Router problems...

[Nayen]

Hey!

I live in a apartment with 4 other students. We have 5 laptops connected to the network (normal LAN cables, not wireless).

We have 10mbs optics internet. The ISP provided a free modem/router which is AWESOME, never had to reset it, never experienced latency or any other problem whatsoever. It has 8 LAN slots. BUT the ISP only provides 3 IPs (dynamic ones). This means that only 3 computers can be connected thru this modem/router.

We bought a D-Link DIR-100 router so that everyone can connect to internet. This means that 2 computers have a nice and stable connection. While the rest are "doomed".

The router is just horrible. There are those rare times when everything works perfectly. But most of the times we are experiencing the following problems:

-Webpages takes longer to load
-Webpages don't load at all
-Webpages partially load or are displayed incorrectly
-Download rates are slower
-Disconnects from multiplayer games and applications such as Messenger
-Etc...

Also I need to mention that we are not doing anything "intense". No P2P abuse or high bandwidth downloads.

Sometimes everything works fine for days. Sometimes we have to reset router several time per day (take it off power and plug it back in). It seems that router just "overloads". The connection gets "stuffed".

I really don't know what to do. I tried disabling firewall (not sure if it's even possible on this router). I tried port forwarding, DMZ, disabling encryptions, etc... NOTHING seems to work.

What I want? I want something that splits 1 IP adress into 3. I don't need fancy options and encryptions, I don't need firewall or anything at all. I only want router to split the IP without tempering with connection.

I called ISP, they are not willing to provide 2 more IPs... The only thing they can do is provide 1 static IP instead of dynamic one.

Will static IP solve problems?

If not... what are my options? Are more expensive routers better? Do they need resets? If expensive routers are better - which one to buy? What company, what model?

I really want a stable and fast connection 24/7. The same thing that is already provided to me by my ISP and their modem/router (with 3 IPs).

I would really appreciate any and all help.

Thank you!

[Nayen]

I just found out that buying a Switch instead of a Router might be a good idea.

Does Switch leaves the connection alone? Without unnecessary firewalls and encryptions etc...? Does Switch overloads as well and requires resets?

Would something like "Switch Linksys EZXS88W 10/100 8 Port" be a good choice?

Also, is Switch even capable of spiting 1 IP into more IPs for other computers? Because, like I said I only have 3 IPs from my ISP.

[YeOldeStonecat]

What make/model is the ISP supplied modem/gateway/router?

If it's actually a router already, like many are, and you add another router to it, you end up double NAT'ing..which can lead to odd issues and a performance drop.

With these, the router uses 1x public IP address from your ISP, and usually can "share" that with up to 253 computers. If it only allows you to have 3x computers connected....perhaps there's a setting in it for its DHCP service to only hand out 3...see if you can raise that up.

A switch will not "share" an IP from your ISP, you need a router to do that.

Have you tried updating the firmware on your DLink router?

[Nayen]

What make/model is the ISP supplied modem/gateway/router?

If it's actually a router already, like many are, and you add another router to it, you end up double NAT'ing..which can lead to odd issues and a performance drop.

With these, the router uses 1x public IP address from your ISP, and usually can "share" that with up to 253 computers. If it only allows you to have 3x computers connected....perhaps there's a setting in it for its DHCP service to only hand out 3...see if you can raise that up.

A switch will not "share" an IP from your ISP, you need a router to do that.

Have you tried updating the firmware on your DLink router?

ISP (T-2.net) gave me:

"MILAN Technology
MIL - SM8016
Managed 8 Port 10/100BASE-TX + 1000BASE-FX"

This is what is written on the thingy. It is supposed to be a switch.

Also my ISP provides me with 3 public IP addresses, so the switch is not sharing one public IP between 3 ports (but 3x different public IP).

I tried to upgrade firmware on my D-Link router (upgraded from 1.02 to 1.12). And everything was fine for a week or so.

But now it's back to normal. Not even router reboot doesn't help anymore. Well it works for 30 seconds... and then problems.

Basically the connections works fine for a few seconds, and then suddenly it gets extremely slow for a minute or so... then it works again for a few minutes and slows down.... (2 computers who are on not on router don't have problems).

Even during the period when connection is slowed I can still ping other websites with fast response (for example google.com loads instantaneous all the time) but every "heavy" pages (with more data)... just stops loading midway through.

Example:

I open imageshack.us ... everything works fine, page loads under a second.

Few moments later I try and open it again.
It doesn't work. The page just stands still (see the picture below). I try to ping the website, I get response, but page just won't load.

http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 870jy6.jpg

[YoshiMon]

What sounds like might be happening is that you have two different DHCP systems fighting. When you computers are on your ISPs modem/router and a computer sends out a IP request only the modem/router can respond. However when your going though your modem/router and then router your getting two DHCP offers depending on what is going on with the rest of the network.

That could be further complicated by the way that the ISP has setup their DHCP and how they handle when your trying, inadvertently, to grab more than 3 IPs. Suffice to say it's easy to see why it's a mess for you right now.

While it would be nice to keep the 3 IP system given what I know from your posts I think it would be easier if you were to move to a single static IP from your ISP and then just have all the computers use a NAT. My guess is that your modem/router from your ISP could handle that and you would not need the D-Link router at all.

Now if you wanted to keep the 3 real IPs then your going to have to figure out how you want to manage your DHCP setup. Off the top of my head I'd say maybe:

1. Turn off the DHCP on the D-Link router. Set it up such that users can just grab a reserved IP and assign one to each of the computers. (192.168.1.1, 192.168.1.2, etc)
2. Multi-Home all of the computers NICs with a DHCP setup and then with the static setup as well.
3. Depending on what your plugging into enable/disable the NIC. You might be able to get away with leaving both enabled but again it depends on how the ISP handles requests for additional IPs once your over the limit.

There is I'm sure a more elegant solution but there is one off the top of my head for you.

[Nayen]

What sounds like might be happening is that you have two different DHCP systems fighting. When you computers are on your ISPs modem/router and a computer sends out a IP request only the modem/router can respond. However when your going though your modem/router and then router your getting two DHCP offers depending on what is going on with the rest of the network.

That could be further complicated by the way that the ISP has setup their DHCP and how they handle when your trying, inadvertently, to grab more than 3 IPs. Suffice to say it's easy to see why it's a mess for you right now.

While it would be nice to keep the 3 IP system given what I know from your posts I think it would be easier if you were to move to a single static IP from your ISP and then just have all the computers use a NAT. My guess is that your modem/router from your ISP could handle that and you would not need the D-Link router at all.

Now if you wanted to keep the 3 real IPs then your going to have to figure out how you want to manage your DHCP setup. Off the top of my head I'd say maybe:

1. Turn off the DHCP on the D-Link router. Set it up such that users can just grab a reserved IP and assign one to each of the computers. (192.168.1.1, 192.168.1.2, etc)
2. Multi-Home all of the computers NICs with a DHCP setup and then with the static setup as well.
3. Depending on what your plugging into enable/disable the NIC. You might be able to get away with leaving both enabled but again it depends on how the ISP handles requests for additional IPs once your over the limit.

There is I'm sure a more elegant solution but there is one off the top of my head for you.

Thanks for reply.

I doubt that I can request to get only 1 public static IP. And it feels sort of a waste.

People have routers plugged into switches with dynamic IP's and it works for them. I don't understand why am I having these problems (again, the ISP device is not acting as a router).

So is the problem with D-Link router? Could a better router work out these DHCP problems you are describing?

I want to try out the solution you mentioned. I think I can manage to set up reserved DHCP list (and turn off automatic DHCP server on D-Link). But I am confused by points 2 and 3. If it's not too much trouble, could you explain how to do this in a bit more details? I don't even know what NIC is.

[YoshiMon]

Ugh, silly me I forgot that multi-homing with a single NIC, a NIC is a network card btw, in Win is a pita. First let me respond to a few things here and then I'll offer another suggestion.

I doubt that I can request to get only 1 public static IP. And it feels sort of a waste.

People have routers plugged into switches with dynamic IP's and it works for them. I don't understand why am I having these problems (again, the ISP device is not acting as a router).

I would tend to agree that giving up your 3 real IPs would be a waste. However keep in mind a switch is diffrent than a NAT enabled router. A switch does nothing but share packets across the wires whereas your D-Link router is acting as a NAT so that you can get more IPs.

Now from what I've gathered even if the ISPs modem/router is not acting as a router your still getting those IPs from the ISP via DHCP right? So the DHCP from the ISP is fighting with your D-Links.

Were you ISP's modem/router acting as just a NAT there really should be no problem. You would have a whole host of IPs then to play with but since they are giving you 3 real DHCP assigned IPs and then you have to NAT one of those is where the issue comes.

So is the problem with D-Link router? Could a better router work out these DHCP problems you are describing?

I've been removed from working directly on the inet for a bit here so I'm afraid I'll have to beg off on this question. There could be a router out there that would know to intercept any sort of DHCP response from the ISP and filter it on it's own NAT network...or even something else I'm not thinking about. I just really don't know.

Anywhoo, you can try this and see if it helps. Still not exactly an elegant solution but this part of the reason why IPv6 should just be implemented.

1. Turn off the D-Link's DHCP but leave it's NAT on.
2. In your Network properties panel you will want to go to the properties of your network connection. (Often labeled by Windows as: Local Area Connection)
3. In there you'll see the TCP/IP item and will want to open it up.
4. When you open that window up it will be defaulted to "Obtain an IP address automatically" and "Obtain a DNS server address automatically". You'll want to, when your plugged into the D-Link, set that manually.
5. The info should be something along the lines of 192.168.0.x for your IP, 255.255.255.0 for your subnet mask, and 192.168.0.255 for the default gateway if I remember how D-Links are setup by default correctly.
6. The DNS servers should be easy by just getting to a command prompt, Start -> Run -> cmd, and doing a "ipconfig /all" to see what your DNS servers are. And as far as it goes that setting can always stay set to static. ISPs don't very often change the IPs of their DNS servers.

So then you would just go in and flip the "Obtain an IP address automatically" if you are hooked directly into the modem/router. And then if you were plugging into the D-Link move to "Use the following IP address".

Edit: Clarity.

[Nayen]

I really appreciate your help.

Right now, internet works very good (but it probably won't last, hehe). I don't know why it suddenly started working again. Could the problem be related to the fact that I am the only computer currently online on D-Link? (Other 2 computers are shut down). But it's weird, because last week when I upgraded firmware everything worked fine until today, and I didn't even log to router or made any changes in settings. :S


Anyway, I will try your solution.

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/565/111sk9.jpg
This is how my router interface looks like. Do I just need to un-check DHCP server? Or do I need to also manually set DHCP reservation lists? If I need to manually set reservation list, do I just leave same "internal IP" numbers? (for me 192.168.0.101)?

Also I am not sure what NAT is, or how do I leave it on. :P
But the rest I can manage (TCP/IP settings).

Again, thanks for your time and help.

[YoshiMon]

No problem. My best guess as to what is happening goes something like this:

1. Three or more of you on the network with two people plugged into the modem/router and then the 3rd+ plugs into the D-Link.
2. The 3rd+ person's computer sends out a DHCP request across the network. Mind you your 3 IPs are already taken by the 2 people on their own PCs and the 3rd by the D-Link router itself.
3. The ISPs DHCP server sends out a DHCP offer to the new PC but since your out of IPs it gives it one of the ones already in use.
3a. The D-Link beats your ISP in offering a DHCP IP and the computer grabs it. Everything is fine then.
4. Now with multiple computers using the same IP things go south.
5. Computers using DHCP will often retain their leased IP and attempt to get it back when they come back onto a network. Normally since a network will only have a single DHCP server it will sort it all out and tell the computer to drop whatever old IP it had and get a new one. But with two DHCP servers fighting things can go south.

So yes, you should just be able to uncheck where it says "Enable DHCP Sever" and then just assign the static 192.168.0.x IPs. Would be:

IPs: 192.168.0.2-254
Subnet: 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 192.168.0.1

And since it will relay DNS you most likely could just leave the DNS setting in the TCP/IP part of your Windows network config as automatic.

Finally a NAT is the thing that allows you to get more IPs from just one. It takes a real IP and then instead gives you a private or reserved IP to use instead. NAT was born out of the issue you see right now where someone will need more IPs than they have access too. For example my ISP only gives me one real IP with my standard package. And since the standard package for me works fine I just use that IP for my router and it then acts as a router using NAT.

[Nayen]

Great, I changed settings and rebooted router. Everything appears to be working just fine! (I did have to enter those DNS addresses manually, because certain pages didn't load when I left them empty).

Anyway, I will try and set up the other two computers in the morning. Hopefully this will solve the problems.

Thanks!