what the heck is going on in forida? taking away everyones rights..

[Meggie]

WASHINGTON (AFP) - A Florida judge has temporarily blocked a 13-year-old girl from getting an abortion, ordering her to undergo psychological testing before the procedure, prompting an immediate appeal from privacy advocates, local media reported.


The American Civil Liberties Union filed an immediate appeal of the order.

State authorities, who have custody of the foster child, argued that she was too immature to understand the consequences of terminating her 13-week pregnancy, the Miami Herald reported.

"The Department of Children and Families is acting in accordance with what we believe is in the best interest of the child," said Zoraya Suarez, department spokeswoman.

But Howard Simon, who heads the ACLU in Florida, a group that is partly representing the girl, said the state's action was politically motivated.

"This is what you get when ideology drives child welfare decisions," Simon told the paper.

"Putting aside the legal and the constitutional principles here, the fact that the state is preparing to force a 13-year-old to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term is just simply cruel," Simon added.

[wee96]

"Putting aside the legal and the constitutional principles here, the fact that the state is preparing to force a 13-year-old to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term is just simply cruel," Simon added.


Exactly.

[RoscoPColtrane]

WASHINGTON (AFP) - A Florida judge has temporarily blocked a 13-year-old girl from getting an abortion, ordering her to undergo psychological testing before the procedure, prompting an immediate appeal from privacy advocates, local media reported.


The American Civil Liberties Union filed an immediate appeal of the order.

State authorities, who have custody of the foster child, argued that she was too immature to understand the consequences of terminating her 13-week pregnancy, the Miami Herald reported.

"The Department of Children and Families is acting in accordance with what we believe is in the best interest of the child," said Zoraya Suarez, department spokeswoman.

But Howard Simon, who heads the ACLU in Florida, a group that is partly representing the girl, said the state's action was politically motivated.

"This is what you get when ideology drives child welfare decisions," Simon told the paper.

"Putting aside the legal and the constitutional principles here, the fact that the state is preparing to force a 13-year-old to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term is just simply cruel," Simon added.

aren't you the same person who claims i shouldn't have a right to bare arms? Now you are complaining about rights?!

[ScottE]

aren't you the same person who claims i shouldn't have a right to bare arms? Now you are complaining about rights?!

It's okay when it only affects us.

[The_Lurker]

what the heck is going on in forida? taking away everyones rights.

thats what playing with bush will get ya!


WOOT! Bush is cool! especially with Mr.dicky

[Meggie]

aren't you the same person who claims i shouldn't have a right to bare arms? Now you are complaining about rights?!

yup and always will.

[RoscoPColtrane]

yup and always will.

lol

[drdoug99]

that's sad...a foster child, so has no real parents to take care of her....now the state even controls this part of her life..

[RoscoPColtrane]

that's sad...a foster child, so has no real parents to take care of her....now the state even controls this part of her life..

was she raped? If not then she took control of her own life the minute she decided to have sex....its not the fetus' (baby) fault....

[Paft]

was she raped? If not then she took control of her own life the minute she decided to have sex....its not the fetus' (baby) fault....

So instead we penalize the girl with a highly probable chance of dying upon giving birth (she'll be 14 - she's not even fully developed to give birth yet), and even if she DOES live, she's now straddled with a child that will inevitably be stripped away from her by the state?

Let's just get this straight. You can either abort a bundle of cells (causing minimal trauma), or you can punish the actual living girl and make her suffer trauma from family and state.



Yeah. Good frickin' job Florida. Way to really screw up a young girl.

[The_Lurker]

Yeah. Good frickin' job Florida. Way to really screw up a young girl.

she was screwed up long before Florida got ahold of her!



get a clue and put the blame squarly where it belongs!

[Paft]

she was screwed up long before Florida got ahold of her!

get a clue and put the blame squarly where it belongs!

Take a look at this.

"Why can't I make my own decision?"

That was the blunt question to a judge from a pregnant 13-year-old girl ensnared in a Palm Beach County court fight over whether she can have an abortion.

"I don't know," Circuit Judge Ronald Alvarez replied, according to a recording of the closed hearing obtained Friday.

"You don't know?" replied the girl, who is a ward of the state. "Aren't you the judge?"

Does that sound like a girl who can't make her own decisions and is screwed up? Those questions sound more mature than some things I hear come out of 40 year old's mouths.

L.G., who told Alvarez she had run away at least five times from her youth shelter, maintained, "It would make no sense to have the baby."

"I don't think I should have the baby because I'm 13, I'm in a shelter and I can't get a job," the girl said as Alvarez and her guardian ad litem, assigned to shepherd her in the legal system, questioned her.

L.G. laid out different reasons for wanting an abortion.

"DCF would take the baby anyway," she said, but later added: "If I do have it, I'm not going to let them take it."

She also questioned the health risk of carrying the fetus to term.

"Since you guys are supposedly here for the best interest of me, then wouldn't you all look at that fact that it'd be more dangerous for me to have the baby than to have an abortion?" she asked. Alvarez called that "a good point."

Dr. Ethelene Jones, an expert in obstetrics and gynecology, testified earlier in the hearing that abortions are "definitely" safer than full term pregnancies for girls L.G.'s age.

"At her age and at her stage of gestation ... her risk of death from an abortion procedure is about 1 in 34,000," said Jones, who has held positions at Planned Parenthood and the ACLU. "The risk of death in pregnancy is about 1 in 10,000."

The girl knows her stuff. She knows it's pointless to have the child, she knows she can't provide for it, and she knows that she's in more danger if she has a pregnancy. The kid isn't screwed up half as much as the DCF, which didn't even worry about this girl until she wanted an abortion.

The judge also blased DCF for not asking the court to take the girl into custody after the last time she ran away:

"To say that I am angry at that would be an understatement. To rush into this court on an emergency basis because this child is pregnant and wants an abortion, I don't know where our priorities in life are. The priority should have been to make certain that an order to take her into custody was issued as soon as possible, and that she was found and taken off of the streets or wherever she was. But nobody cared."

I'm sorry, but Florida screwed up. Not this girl.

[Sava700]

She's 13 years old??? She didn't have enough sense to keep her practice panties up let alone make her own decisions based on this now.

[Dan]

what the heck is going on in forida? taking away everyones rights..

I have a good idea whats going on in Florida from the newspapers and tv news,

but there is not much coverage out here about forida.

[The_Lurker]

I'm sorry, but Florida screwed up. Not this girl.

right! you've convinced me! she's made wonderful decisions up to this point.

[RoscoPColtrane]

She's 13 years old??? She didn't have enough sense to keep her practice panties up let alone make her own decisions based on this now.

[AceFireball]

was she raped? If not then she took control of her own life the minute she decided to have sex....its not the fetus' (baby) fault....

Shes 13, not only is that just wrong....shes not stupid and obviously thinks she can make her own decisions

she was screwed up long before Florida got ahold of her!
get a clue and put the blame squarly where it belongs!

right! you've convinced me! she's made wonderful decisions up to this point.

Of course! She never decided to have sex...it just happend, hell mabey it was the stork but it sure wasnt her decision.

Agree with all but either way I gotta say shes too young too keep a baby.

Just my thoughts

[jdblitz]

yup and always will.

so the constitution should only be supported when it benefits your agenda.

*noted*

JD

[JawZ]

"Putting aside the legal and the constitutional principles here, the fact that the state is preparing to force a 13-year-old to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term is just simply cruel," Simon added.


Exactly.

so we're gonna kill a baby because a 13 yr old punk kid was smart enough to spread her legs but not responsible enough to pay for the consequences???


Fair enough....give her an abortion and then tie her tubes until she is 18.

the problem here folks is that there is no way to prevent this 13 yr. old from spreading her legs which again, would result in the death of a fetus, another human life. How many abortions would it take for you, the people, to stand up against a 13 year old kid and say...NO ****ING MORE YOU LITTLE ASS--HOLE!

[The_Lurker]

so we're gonna kill a baby because a 13 yr old punk kid was smart enough to spread her legs but not responsible enough to pay for the consequences???


Fair enough....give her an abortion and then tie her tubes until she is 18.

the problem here folks is that there is no way to prevent this 13 yr. old from spreading her legs which again, would result in the death of a fetus, another human life. How many abortions would it take for you, the people, to stand up against a 13 year old kid and say...NO ****ING MORE YOU LITTLE ASS--HOLE!

oh, no, no ,no! we must let the children have sex on demand and abortion on demand. then tell them it's not their fault! it someone elses!








not a bad thought on your part, forced sterillization till adulthood. then she can doink as much and whomever she wants too. that'll be good for her too. it's not her fault!

[wee96]

so we're gonna kill a baby because a 13 yr old punk kid was smart enough to spread her legs but not responsible enough to pay for the consequences???


Fair enough....give her an abortion and then tie her tubes until she is 18.

the problem here folks is that there is no way to prevent this 13 yr. old from spreading her legs which again, would result in the death of a fetus, another human life. How many abortions would it take for you, the people, to stand up against a 13 year old kid and say...NO ****ING MORE YOU LITTLE ASS--HOLE!

I dont think anyone is defending the child for having sex as this is horrible at that age and wrong in most peoples eyes. If it was forced rape however, I personally think its disgusting to not allow the pregnancy to be terminated.

[nepenthe]

so we're gonna kill a baby because a 13 yr old punk kid was smart enough to spread her legs but not responsible enough to pay for the consequences???


Fair enough....give her an abortion and then tie her tubes until she is 18.

the problem here folks is that there is no way to prevent this 13 yr. old from spreading her legs which again, would result in the death of a fetus, another human life. How many abortions would it take for you, the people, to stand up against a 13 year old kid and say...NO ****ING MORE YOU LITTLE ASS--HOLE!

Relevance?

If you cannot trust her to make a decision how are you to trust her with a pregnancy, let alone to raise the baby. I am no fan of abortion, however it is not a choice for you or I.

david

[Dan]

I still don't know where forida is !!?!?!?!!?!?!??!

[Sarahnn]

so we're gonna kill a baby because a 13 yr old punk kid was smart enough to spread her legs but not responsible enough to pay for the consequences???

Get a clue, UOD, spreading her legs didn't get her pregnant. How many times a day do you spread yer legs? You ever been pregnant?

Uh uh....somebody assisted without regards to her safety. In fact, I don't think anyone has given a sweet crap about that thirteen year old since the day she was born.

Some ironies here. If she had been aborted, this never would have happened and this 13 year old wouldn't be costing the state. Second, the government is controlling her body just like they would control all woman's body's if abortion laws were turned over again.

I am against abortion but I am more against government intervention over private matters. In this case, however, if she is a ward of the State at this point, then it's out of our hands unless someone claims her.

What a mess......I'm starting to hate judges.

[Sarahnn]

oh, no, no ,no! we must let the children have sex on demand and abortion on demand. then tell them it's not their fault! it someone elses!

Hey, get a clue, Lurker. Someone else demanded sex, and obviously used her. Where did you hear she is demanding an abortion? In fact, its my guess that if her demands had been met in the first place, she'd be in a good home surrounded by loving, caring adults who would protect her from sperm marksmen.

Nope, society has failed again. And it's always the children who pay the biggest price.








not a bad thought on your part, forced sterillization till adulthood. then she can doink as much and whomever she wants too. that'll be good for her too. it's not her fault![/QUOTE]

[ScottE]

I still don't know where forida is !!?!?!?!!?!?!??!

It fell into the ocean about 5 years ago.

[Bouncer]

Fundamentally there is a larger issue here. The states argument is essentially that a minor child is not capable of making the appropriate medical decision. This is a dangerous view because, if upheld, it effectively removes the right of ANY minor to have an abortion in Fla. It is an end run around a Fla State Supreme court decision that neither parental consent nor notification is required for an abortion in Fla.

But DCW is arguing that IT should decide for the child. It's role is to effectively act as in loco parentis under the law. That's what gives it the authority to make decisions (such as placing the child in a foster home or shelter). It is acting as the parents of this child. Therefore, it has no right under the law to either notification or consent of the abortion should the child so choose.

But Jeb Bush has made it policy that the DCW CANNOT give consent to an abortion. So the DCW will always fight against this option for any child under it's care. Even when such pregnancy will cause the death of the mother. He has therefore put the DCW in an undefensible position of knowingly and deliberately causing the death of a minor under it's care.

But really, the state as parent should have no more say in either notification or consent than any other parent in Fla. To argue otherwise is to put the right of the state above the rights of the parents under state law. Or, to put it another way, if your 15 year old daughter comes home crying because she was raped and turns out to be pregnant, the state may seize her from you to prevent her from getting an abortion.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

[nepenthe]

Patricia,

Do not hate judges, relegate you contempt to those who appointed them to interpret their brand of law. You are correct concerning the different sexual pressures placed on women. I am afraid many men cannot grasp the concept of sexism, perhaps they have to walk a mile in high heeled shoes.

Thomas,

There is one point that always nagged me regarding minors and abortion. A doctor or nurse cannot administer any for of treatment to an underage without parental, yet abortion is permissible. I fully understand, and concur with the ramifications, however it flaunts one of the basic laws in medical jurisprudence.

david

[Meggie]

so the constitution should only be supported when it benefits your agenda.

*noted*

JD

last i checked abortion rights werent in the constitution, neither were the rights to die if your family thought it was the best for you.

*ignorance noted*

[Kyle]

I find that Pro-Lifers are extremely contradictive in cases like this.

They say how "WRONG" it is to abort a baby because it should have a chance at life. Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but, by those standards, it's "RIGHT" to ruin BOTH their lives and take a chance at killing one or both of them.

Sad… very sad.

I used to think how I cannot wait until we have some remotely intelligent people running this country and making its laws but more recently I've realized that it will not happen. America will eventually tear itself apart like every other world power in the history of mankind. With the idiots we have running us right now, we can't be far off. A FREE country cannot be governed by someone with their own religious agenda - separation of church and state. If a moral issue such as this comes up - put it to vote. That's how it should be handled, and then the people could decide what they want. Instead we have a religious zealot telling others to adhere to his religion regardless of what they want. "Land of the free" my ass.

[JawZ]

Get a clue, UOD, spreading her legs didn't get her pregnant. How many times a day do you spread yer legs? You ever been pregnant?

Uh uh....somebody assisted without regards to her safety. In fact, I don't think anyone has given a sweet crap about that thirteen year old since the day she was born.

Some ironies here. If she had been aborted, this never would have happened and this 13 year old wouldn't be costing the state. Second, the government is controlling her body just like they would control all woman's body's if abortion laws were turned over again.

I am against abortion but I am more against government intervention over private matters. In this case, however, if she is a ward of the State at this point, then it's out of our hands unless someone claims her.

What a mess......I'm starting to hate judges.

Get some facts Sara....a woman says yes or shes says NO or she gets raped. A woman holds the power to life. Fortunately for you, your Mom said yes.

You act as if women are powerless to say NO. when action persists beyond NO...it's called RAPE and we have a judicial system to deal with that kind of criminal behavior.

So yes Sara....this girl said yes, she spread her legs, and now she is pregnant...NOT the man. So this little jitbag can stand up in front of a judge and say no....but she couldn't bring herself to say NO to sex??????

Life issues in the US are very fubared. We don't put people to death all that much anymore for capital crimes for fear that we might be killing an innocent person yet we put to death thousands of babies/fetuses every year knowing FULL well that they are truly innocent. Innocent victims of the actions of the idiots. Thrilling isn't it?

That is why I said give her the abortion, then sterilize her until she is no longer a ward of the state. As Bouncer said, and I agree, the state does not have more rights than the people of Fla. So by sterilizing her, the state can not be put into this position of consent/deny consent simply because she won't get pregnant.

But I also agree with you Sara that society has failed in many aspects here.

Speedguide is a funny funny place these days. Most of the folks here in this very thread think it's ok for the police to put a child in jail for having a temper tantrum in school......and these same folks are now suggesting that a 13 yr old teen is capable of making decisions when she in fact failed on every level to just say no.

Actually, I can't figure out if any of you have any real convictions or just wanna argue to add excitement to your lives.

So let's get this straight....

1. Putting children in jail good.

2. Allowing children to have abortions good.

3. Bush bad.

4. Kerry good.

5. Bin Laden very very bad.

6. the Pope was very very good.

7. Canada is great.

8. Guns are good fun unless in the hands of children who hate Bush and wanna cap their teacher and other students who may be whacked out on violent video games.

9. Burke was bad

10. Is God around these days?

[zooner]

why hasn't anyone asked who the father is? How old the father is?

Speaking of religon and government, when's the last time our president went to church?

[Sava700]

why hasn't anyone asked who the father is? How old the father is?

ok so what your really tryin to say is your the father??!?!?

[Roody]

Yeah. Good frickin' job Florida. Way to really screw up a young girl.

I havent read all the facts of the case Paft, but an early look would tell me that screwing around screwed the girl up not the state itself.

IMO, go to the source of the problem. Sure, a person has the right to have sex if they want too, but don't blame someone else for your own actions unless of course this is about a rape case. As I said though Im jumping into this a bit prematurely, but based on what I am hearing a good majority of the responsibility needs to be dropped on the girl.

[Roody]

last i checked abortion rights werent in the constitution, neither were the rights to die if your family thought it was the best for you.

*ignorance noted*

*post removed by Roody because info couldnt be confirmed*

Sorry for the interruption.

[nepenthe]

Actually, I can't figure out if any of you have any real convictions or just wanna argue to add excitement to your lives.

So let's get this straight....

1. Putting children in jail good.

2. Allowing children to have abortions good.

3. Bush bad.

4. Kerry good.

5. Bin Laden very very bad.

6. the Pope was very very good.

7. Canada is great.

8. Guns are good fun unless in the hands of children who hate Bush and wanna cap their teacher and other students who may be whacked out on violent video games.

9. Burke was bad

10. Is God around these days?

OK...... Is this a particular individual or just a composite for you to vent your anger.

[zooner]

I dated a girl while I was in HS named Roberta. She was from out of town and I met her on a weekend in darien lake amusement park.

We dated for quite some time and my parents actually drove me the 2 hours to visit her on more then one occasion, a very special girl with a big heart.

She was a sex-addict. I never had sex with her, although she nearly begged me. In time, she truely cherished my refusal.

Was it her fault? hard to say. She was in foster care because her father, brother, and 2 uncles had sexually abused her as a child. I don't know what happened to her, but I think about her often. Hoping that it turned out okay for her.

The girl in this story could have a haunted past like Roberta, who knows?

People often say that there is no more black and white, merely shades of grey. I disagree. I think that the colors merely inversed themselves through people's own agenda's and selfish motives.

At one time, long ago, pro-lifer's were a compassionate bunch. They would help and comfort people seeking abortions and attempt to guide them along a different path.

where have all the (real) christian's gone?

[wee96]

OK...... Is this a particular individual or just a composite for you to vent your anger.

^

[Roody]

where have all the (real) christian's gone?

They are all around and Im one of them. Ive never considered myself a condemning kind of person. Sure, I might think something is right or wrong and if we discuss an item I might say so, but that doesnt leave me without compassion.

Im just of course one case. The point of my response is they are out there.

[Ghosthunter]

They are all around and Im one of them. Ive never considered myself a condemning kind of person. Sure, I might think something is right or wrong and if we discuss an item I might say so, but that doesnt leave me without compassion.

Im just of course one case. The point of my response is they are out there.

I can vouch for Roody. he is a good guy same with Sammy.

Both who are Christian, I have never once seen judge others or put others down even though they have different beliefs.

There are more here so dont get offended if I did not mention just the two off top of my head that gave me good impressions