For those of you that think the War in Iraq was a waste of time........

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rightwinger
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For those of you that think the War in Iraq was a waste of time........

Post by rightwinger »

This is a photo off FoxNews.com of a mass grave in Iraq. The genocide of his own people by Hussein is surpassed only by that of Hitler and Stalin. The Iraqi people deserve a better life than this. I know, I spent a over year with them, beginning with the start of the war. They are not the evil American-hating people that the liberal network media and the people on the Conspiratorial News Network would have you believe they are. And yes Saddam did use weapons of mass destruction (gas) on his own people. That is an indisputable fact. He used them against the Iranians as well, in the Iran/Iraq war. You can find photos of that aftermath all over the web.

People seem to forget, or never knew, that there were insurgents in Germany after WWII and they killed a lot more US GI's than the Iraqi's have. If you want more info on this topic go to http://www.historychannel.com and read all about it.

Let ol' Mikey explain this one away with that oversimplified circular logic he is so well known for...... :irate:

Here's the link to the story: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,135652,00.html

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lonewolfz28
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Post by lonewolfz28 »

Pretty sick stuff. :irate:

More fodder for those that think it was needless to go into Iraq:

SPECIAL ARTICLE: It Will Be the Death of Liberalism Written by Raymond Kraft Sunday, October 10, 2004

Sixty-three years ago, Nazi Germany had overrun almost all of Europe and hammered England to the verge of bankruptcy and defeat, and had sunk more than four hundred British ships in their convoys between England and America for food and war materials.

Bushido Japan had overrun most of Asia, beginning in 1928, killing millions of civilians throughout China, and impressing millions more as slave labor.

The United States was in an isolationist and pacifist mood, and most Americans and Congress wanted nothing to do with the European war, or the Asian war.

Then along came Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, and in outrage Congress unanimously declared war on Japan, and the following day on Germany, which had not attacked us.

It was a dicey thing. We had few allies.

France was not an ally, for the Vichy government of France aligned with its German occupiers. Germany was not an ally, for it was an enemy, and Hitler intended to set up a Thousand Year Reich in Europe. Japan was not an ally, for it was intent on owning and controlling all of Asia. Japan and Germany had long-term ideas of invading Canada and Mexico, and then the United States over the north and south borders, after they had settled control of Asia and Europe.

America's allies then were England, Ireland, Scotland, Canada, Australia, and Russia, and that was about it. There were no other countries of any size or military significance with the will and ability to contribute much of anything to the effort to defeat Hitler's Germany and Japan, and prevent the global dominance of Nazism. And we had to send millions of tons of arms, munitions, and war supplies to Russia, England, and the Canadians, Aussies, Irish, and Scots, because none of them could produce all they needed for themselves.

All of Europe, from Norway to Italy, except Russia in the east, was already under the Nazi heel.

America was not prepared for war. America had stood down most of its military after World War I and throughout the depression. At the outbreak of World War II there were army soldiers training with broomsticks over their shoulders because they didn't have guns, and using cars with ''tank'' painted on the doors because they didn't have tanks. And a big chunk of our navy had just been sunk and damaged at Pearl Harbor.

Britain had already gone bankrupt, saved only by the donation of $600 million in gold bullion in the Bank of England that was the property of Belgium and was given by Belgium to England to carry on the war when Belgium was overrun by Hitler. Actually, Belgium surrendered one day, because it was unable to oppose the German invasion, and the Germans bombed Brussels into rubble the next day anyway, just to prove they could.

Britain had been holding out for two years already in the face of staggering shipping loses and the near-decimation of its air force in the Battle of Britain, and was saved from being overrun by Germany only because Hitler made the mistake of thinking the Brits were a relatively minor threat that could be dealt with later and turning his attention to Russia, at a time when England was on the verge of collapse in the late summer of
1940.

Russia saved America's rear by putting up a desperate fight for two years until the United States got geared up to begin hammering away at Germany. Russia lost something like 24 million people in the sieges of Stalingrad and Moscow, 90% of them from cold and starvation, mostly civilians, but also more than a million soldiers. More than a million! Had Russia surrendered, then, Hitler would have been able to focus his entire campaign against the Brits, then America, and the Nazis would have won that war.

Had Hitler not made that mistake and invaded England in 1940 or
1941, instead, there would have been no England for the United States and the Brits to use as a staging ground to prepare an assault on Nazi Europe. England would not have been able to run its North African campaign to help take a little pressure off Russia while America geared up for battle, and today Europe would very probably be run by the Nazis, the Third Reich, and, isolated and without any allies (not even the Brits). The United States would very probably have had to cede Asia to the Japanese, who were basically Nazis by another name then, and the world we live in today would be very different and much worse.

I say this to illustrate that turning points in history are often dicey things. And we are at another one.

There is a very dangerous minority in Islam that either has--or wants to have, and may soon have--the ability to deliver small nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons, almost anywhere in the world, unless it is prevented from doing so.

France, Germany, and Russia, have been selling these Islamics nations weapons technology at least as recently as 2002, as have North Korea, Syria, and Pakistan--paid for with billions of dollars that Saddam Hussein skimmed from the "Oil For Food" program administered by the United Nations with the complicity of Kofi Annan and his son.

The Jihadis, or the militant Muslims, are basically Nazis in Kaffiyahs. They believe that Islam, a radically conservative (definitely not liberal!) form of Wahhabi Islam, should own and control the Middle East first, then Europe, then the world, and that all who do not bow to Allah should be killed, enslaved, or subjugated. They want to finish the Holocaust, destroy Israel, and purge the world of Jews. This is what they say.

There is also a civil war raging in the Middle East--for the most part not a hot war, but a war of ideas. Islam is having its Inquisition and its Reformation today, but it is not yet known which will win--the Inquisition, or the Reformation.

If the Inquisition wins, then the Wahhabis, or the Jihadis, will control the Middle East, and the OPEC oil, and the United States, European, and Asian economies--the techno-industrial economies--will be at the mercy of OPEC. This is not an OPEC dominated by the well-educated and rational Saudis of today, but an OPEC dominated by the Jihadis.

You want gas in your car? You want heating oil next winter? You want jobs? You want the dollar to be worth anything? You better hope the Jihad, the Muslim Inquisition, loses, and the Islamic Reformation wins.

If the Reformation movement wins, that is, the moderate Muslims who believe that Islam can respect and tolerate other religions, and live in peace with the rest of the world, and move out of the 10th Century into the 21st Century, then the troubles in the Middle East will eventually fade away, and a moderate and prosperous Middle East will emerge.

We have to help the Reformation win, and to do that we have to fight the Inquisition, i.e., the Wahhabi movement, the Jihad, Al Qaeda, the Islamic terrorist movements.

We have to do it somewhere.

We cannot do it nowhere. And we cannot do it everywhere at once.

We have created a focal point for the battle now at the time and place of our choosing, in Iraq. Not in New York, not in London, or Paris, or Berlin, but in Iraq, where we did and are doing two very important things:

(1) We deposed Saddam Hussein. Whether Saddam Hussein was directly involved in 9/11 or not, it is indisputed that Saddam has been actively supporting the terrorist movement for decades. Saddam is a terrorist. Saddam is, or was, a weapon of mass destruction, who is responsible for the deaths of probably more than a million Iraqis and two million Iranians.

(2) We created a battle, a confrontation, a flash point, with Islamic terrorism in Iraq. We have focused the battle. We are killing bad guys there, and the ones we get there we won't have to get here, or anywhere else. We also have a good shot at creating a democratic, peaceful Iraq, which will be a catalyst for democratic change in the rest of the Middle East, and an outpost for a stabilizing American military presence in the Middle East for as long as it is needed.

The Euros could have done this, but they didn't, and they won't. We now know that rather than opposing the rise of the Jihad, the French, Germans, and Russians were selling them arms. We have found more than a million tons of weapons and munitions in Iraq. If Iraq was not a threat to anyone, why did Saddam need a million tons of weapons?

And Iraq was paying for French, German, and Russian arms with money skimmed from the United Nations Oil For Food Program (supervised by U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan and his son) that was supposed to pay for food, medicine, and education, for Iraqi children.

World War II, the war with the German and Japanese Nazis, really began with a ''whimper'' in 1928. It did not begin with Pearl Harbor. It began with the Japanese invasion of China. It was a war for fourteen years before America joined it. It officially ended in 1945--a 17-year war--and was followed by another decade of United States occupation in Germany and Japan to get those countries reconstructed and running on their own again--a 27-year war. World War II cost the United States an amount equal to approximately a full year's GDP--adjusted for inflation, equal to about $12 trillion dollars. World War II cost America more than 400,000 killed in action, and nearly 100,000 still missing in action.

[The Iraq war has, so far, cost the United States about $120 billion, which is roughly what 9/11 cost New York. It has also cost about 1,000 American lives, which is roughly 1/3 of the 3,000 lives that the Jihad snuffed on
9/11.]

But the cost of not fighting and winning World War II would have been unimaginably greater: a world now dominated by German and Japanese Nazism.

Americans have a short attention span, now, conditioned I > suppose by
30-minute television shows and 2-hour movies in which everything comes out okay. The real world is not like that. It is messy, uncertain, and sometimes bloody and ugly. It always has been, and probably always will be.

If we do this thing in Iraq successfully, it is probable that the Reformation will ultimately prevail. Many Muslims in the Middle East hope it will. We will be there to support it. It has begun in some countries, Libya, for instance. And Dubai. And Saudi Arabia. If we fail, the Inquisition will probably prevail, and terrorism from Islam will be with us for all the foreseeable future, because the people of the Inquisition, or Jihad, believe that they are called by Allah to kill all the Infidels, and that death in Jihad is glorious.

The bottom line here is that we will have to deal with Islamic terrorism until we defeat it, whenever that is. It will not go away on its own. It will not go away if we ignore it.

If the United States can create a reasonably democratic and stable Iraq, then we have an ''England'' in the Middle East, a platform from which we can work to help modernize and moderate the Middle East. The history of the world is the clash between the forces of relative civility and civilization, and the barbarians clamoring at the gates. The Iraq war is merely another battle in this ancient and never-ending war. And now, for the first time ever, the barbarians are about to get nuclear weapons. Unless we prevent them. Or somebody does.

The Iraq war is expensive, and uncertain, yes. But the consequences of not fighting it and winning it will be horrifically greater. We have four options:

1. We can defeat the Jihad now, before it gets nuclear weapons.

2. We can fight the Jihad later, after it gets nuclear weapons (which may be as early as next year, if Iran's progress on nuclear weapons is what Iran claims it is).

3. We can surrender to the Jihad and accept its dominance in the Middle East, now, in Europe in the next few years or decades, and ultimately in America.

4. Or we can stand down now, and pick up the fight later when the Jihad is more widespread and better armed, perhaps after the Jihad has dominated France and Germany and maybe most of the rest of Europe. It will be more dangerous, more expensive, and much bloodier then.

Yes, the Jihadis say that they look forward to an Islamic America. If you oppose this war, I hope you like the idea that your children, or grandchildren, may live in an Islamic America under the Mullahs and the Sharia, an America that resembles Iran today.

We can be defeatist, as many Democrats and liberals, peace-activists, and anti-war types seem to be, and concede or surrender to the Jihad--or we can do whatever it takes to win this war against them.

The history of the world is the history of civilizational clashes, or cultural clashes. All wars are about ideas--ideas about what society and civilization should be like--and the most determined always win. Those who are willing to be the most ruthless always win. The pacifists always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them.

In the 20th Century, it was western democracy vs. communism, and before that western democracy vs. Nazism, and before that Western democracy vs. German Imperialism. Western democracy won, three times, but it wasn't cheap, fun, nice, easy, or quick. Indeed, the wars against German Imperialism (World War I), Nazi Imperialism (World War II), and communist imperialism (the 40-year Cold War that included the Vietnam Battle, commonly called the Vietnam War, but itself a major battle in a larger war) covered almost the entire century.

The first major war of the 21st Century is the war between Western Judeo/Christian Civilization and Wahhabi Islam. It may last a few more years, or most of this century. It will last until the Wahhabi branch of Islam fades away, or gives up its ambitions for regional and global dominance and Jihad, or until Western Civilization gives in to the Jihad.

Senator John Kerry, in the debates and almost daily, makes three specious claims:

1. We went to Iraq without enough troops.

We went with the troops the United States military wanted. We went with the troop levels that General Tommy Franks asked for. We deposed Saddam in 30 days with light casualties, much lighter than we expected.

The real problem in Iraq is that we are trying to be nice; we are trying to fight the 1% of the population that is Jihadi, and trying to avoid killing the 99% of the population that is not a threat. We could flatten Fallujah in minutes with a flight of B52s, or seconds with one nuclear cruise missile--but we don't. We're trying to do brain surgery, not cut off the patient's head. The Jihadis amputate heads.

2. We went to Iraq with too little planning.

This is a specious argument too, for it supposes that if we had just had ''the right plan'' the war would have been easy, cheap, quick, and clean. That is not an option. It is a guerrilla war against a determined enemy, and no such war ever has been or ever will be easy, cheap, quick, and clean. This is not television!

3. We proved ourselves incapable of governing and providing security.

This, too, is a specious argument. It was never our intention to govern and provide security. It was our intention from the beginning to do just enough to enable the Iraqis to develop a representative government and their own military and police forces to provide their own security, and that is happening. The United States and the Brits and other countries there have trained over 100,000 Iraqi police and military, now, and will have trained more than 200,000 by the end of next year. We are in the process of transitioning operational control for security back to Iraq. It will take time. It will not go without hitches. This is not television.

Remember, perspective is everything, and America's schools teach too little history. The Cold War lasted from about 1947 to 1989--at least until the Berlin Wall came down in 1989. Forty-two years. Europe spent the first half of the 19th century fighting Napoleon, and from 1870 to 1945 fighting Germany. World War II began in 1928, lasted 17 years, plus a ten year occupation, and the United States still has troops in Germany and Japan. World War II resulted in the death of more than 50 million people, maybe more than 100 million people, depending on which estimates you accept.

The United States has taken a little more than 1,000 Killed-in-Action
(KIA) in Iraq. The United States took more than 4,000 KIA on the morning of June 6, 1944, the first day of the Normandy Invasion to rid Europe of Nazi Imperialism. In World War II the United States averaged 2,000 KIA a week for four years. Most of the individual battles of World War II lost more Americans than the entire Iraq war has done so far.

But the stakes are at least as high: a world dominated by representative governments with civil rights, human rights, and personal freedoms--or a world dominated by a radical Islamic Wahhabi movement, and by the Jihad, under the Mullahs and the Sharia.

I do not understand why the American left does not grasp this. Too much television, I guess.

The liberals are supposed to be in favor of human rights, civil rights, liberty, freedom, and all that. But not for Iraqis, I guess. In America, but nowhere else. The 300,000 Iraqi bodies in mass graves in Iraq, not our problem. The United States population is about twelve times that of Iraq, so let's multiply 300,000 by twelve. What would you think if there were
3,600,000 American bodies in mass graves in America because of George Bush? Would you want another country to help liberate America?

''Peace Activists'' always seem to demonstrate where it's safe and ineffective to do so: in America. Why don't we see liberal peace activists demonstrating in Iran, Syria, Iraq, Sudan, North Korea, in the places in the world that really need peace activism the most?

The liberals are supposed to be in favor of human rights, civil rights, democracy, multiculturalism, diversity, etc., but if the Jihad wins, wherever the Jihad wins, it is the end of civil rights, human rights, democracy, multiculturalism, diversity, etc. American liberals who oppose the liberation of Iraq are coming down on the side of their own worst enemy. If the Jihad wins, it is the death of Liberalism. Everywhere the Jihad wins, it is the death of Liberalism.

And American liberals just don't get it.


About the Writer: Raymond Kraft is a lawyer and writer living and working in Northern California. Raymond receives e-mail at rskraft@vfr.net.

Go ahead Downhill, pick it apart for us. :rolleyes:
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downhill
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Post by downhill »

Who said it was a waste of time? It wasn't. It's just that a lot of Americans trusted our President when he and his staff stated that their WERE WOMD in Iraq and that we needed to neutralize them. We trusted the administration to be honest with the American people. True Tenet DID advise that indeed, we would FIND WOMD....he also was very clear to the President and his staff that there WASN'T any proof of them. He also stated and read this slowly, that nobody in the CIA believed that Iraq posed an immediate threat. That's something that Cheney and Rumsfield stated to the American people to stir up fear...then denied saying it. (At least Rumsfield did..)
We also trusted their judgment on troop strength to overtake Saddam and setup a free country....That also was a huge and costly misjudgment on their part..

Meanwhile we also trusted their judgment on quickly bringing bin Laden to justice......THAT didn't happen.

We also trusted them in that the info given to members of Congress for their support was the same the administration had....and it turns out it wasn't.

Sugarcoating how we ended up in Iraq with ....a simple..."look here America...we did a good thing because the Iraqi people are free" is typical cover up for failed policy for this administration and still doesn't really coverup the real taste of if for anyone willing to do a little reading and turning off talk radio and the 700 club.
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Post by downhill »

lonewolfz28 wrote:Pretty sick stuff. :irate:



Go ahead Downhill, pick it apart for us. :rolleyes:
I had posted the above before I read this cut and paste by you. Lone....

Don't know why I'm singled out as over half the country pretty much sees it the same way I do, but I'll say that I do worry about your drinking. :p
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There is a reason they have not found them in Iraq

Post by rightwinger »

downhill wrote:Who said it was a waste of time? It wasn't. It's just that a lot of Americans trusted our President when he and his staff stated that their WERE WOMD in Iraq and that we needed to neutralize them. We trusted the administration to be honest with the American people. True Tenet DID advise that indeed, we would FIND WOMD....he also was very clear to the President and his staff that there WASN'T any proof of them. He also stated and read this slowly, that nobody in the CIA believed that Iraq posed an immediate threat. That's something that Cheney and Rumsfield stated to the American people to stir up fear...then denied saying it. (At least Rumsfield did..)
We also trusted their judgment on troop strength to overtake Saddam and setup a free country....That also was a huge and costly misjudgment on their part..

Meanwhile we also trusted their judgment on quickly bringing bin Laden to justice......THAT didn't happen.

We also trusted them in that the info given to members of Congress for their support was the same the administration had....and it turns out it wasn't.

Sugarcoating how we ended up in Iraq with ....a simple..."look here America...we did a good thing because the Iraqi people are free" is typical cover up for failed policy for this administration and still doesn't really coverup the real taste of if for anyone willing to do a little reading and turning off talk radio and the 700 club.
And that is because they are buried in the desert in Syria. There is documentation to that effect. The problem is we don't have the grids for where they were buried. Hussein moved all his stuff across the border before the war. It now appears the Russians helped him. We have already found MiG-25's buried in the deserts in Iraq, aircraft he said he did not have. He is more of a pathological liar than Michael Moore.

I spoke at length with Dr Hamzah while over there. He worked (under duress of having his family killed) on Hussein's nuclear weapons program. He was actually educated (post-grad) at the same University my oldest daughter now attends, FSU. He wrote a book entitled "Saddam's Bombmaker". It can be purchased from Amazon.com for about $15. A book well worth reading.

They do exist, regardless of what the liberal left and that narcissistic, self absorbed, looney tune Michael Moore says. The biggest problem is that is is worse than finding the proverbial needle in a haystack. It is like finding a specific grain of sand at the beach. Without actually hitting Syria we will probably never find them. :irate:
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Post by downhill »

rightwinger wrote: They do exist, regardless of what the liberal left and the looney tune Michael Moore says. The biggest problem is that is is worse than finding the proverbial needle in a haystack. It is like finding a specific grain of sand at the beach. Without actually hitting Syria we will probably never find them. :irate:
Maybe.......seems to me that with as much money offered to anyone with info about them, in a country where water is a luxury....that the info would have come out by now.

Still bin Laden is free...to me, that is the sin here...We created a haven and a rallying point for radical islamic views and fueled the ranks of al Qeada before we took care of that problem. We aren't safer for it....
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Post by lonewolfz28 »

downhill wrote:I had posted the above before I read this cut and paste by you. Lone....

Don't know why I'm singled out as over half the country pretty much sees it the same way I do, but I'll say that I do worry about your drinking.
I wouldn't worry about somebody elses drinking. Worry more about your own habits here as it pertains to your job as mod.

I pointed it at you since you set yourself up as the end all beat all, liberal voice when it comes to picking apart anything that shines favorably on the republicans in general and George W. Bush or his administration in particular. At times I wonder if you and Jayyy aren't one and the same. Only difference is you have the moderator title and he doesn't. :rolleyes:

If you posted it I missed it because I skipped a lot of threads and took a short break from this site because of all of the things I'm still seeing almost three days after the election. :(

I guess I'm always going to be on the opposite side of the fence than the "Premium Members". Time to move on I guess. :nod:
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Post by rightwinger »

downhill wrote:Maybe.......seems to me that with as much money offered to anyone with info about them, in a country where water is a luxury....that the info would have come out by now.

Still bin Laden is free...to me, that is the sin here...We created a haven and a rallying point for radical islamic views and fueled the ranks of al Qeada before we took care of that problem. We aren't safer for it....
And the reason OBL is still free pre-dates President Bush's administration. More than once, he could have been handed to the United States on a silver platter but Klintoon, always afraid of public opinion, did not act on it. He didn't want to piss off muslims in this country or the rest of the world. F that, they're already pissed off at us, who gives a crap? But our national security is more important. Again and again he let his perception of public opinion steer him away from doing the right thing. If we had had possession of that maniac the WTC attack might have never happened.

Thanks Bill.............. :irate: :irate: :irate:
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Post by downhill »

lonewolfz28 wrote: I pointed it at you since you set yourself up as the end all beat all, liberal voice when it comes to picking apart anything that shines favorably on the republicans in general and George W. Bush or his administration in particular. At times I wonder if you and Jayyy aren't one and the same. Only difference is you have the moderator title and he doesn't. :rolleyes:


LW....you know, that argument really gets tiresome. Beatup or out reasoned? I don't usually start these threads, but I don't mind joining in. That's why it's called a forum. Respectfully, your going to have to prove to me that indeed I stifle the conservative voice here. You could PM either Ken or Philip or any of the mods you see fit, and ask them to give you an accounting of how many political threads they see pulled. There are few to tell you the truth.

I've been attacked and lied about by a few here on that issue..Burke being one of them in one of his posts about me. What he had to say simply wasn't the whole story. He conveniently left a lot of it out.

Honestly, I'm respectfully asking anyone reading this and have the same issues to please prove it. Yes I get into the political discussions. I also respect the others right to join in also. Heck LW..the discussions between GH and myself consume a lot of his post count. Ask him if I've ever threatened him with my "mod" status......

Now I'm not trying to stir the pot here but could it be that indeed you don't want to see any other view point but your own? If that's the case....I'm truly sorry because as you can see, since you've been a member here, Speedguide doesn't really stifle free speech unless it violates Philips rules or the subject gets way to heated or subjects that end up being to controversial.

As to being one of the most liberal on the board? In real life, not even close but I do tend to show there's another side of the coin here.

Something I've noticed here. In all of our real lives...most of us don't define our friendship on political views. I truely try and do the same there. I don't judge anyone here by political or religious views and I'm being honest when I say that there isn't anyone currently posting that I dislike at all. I've noticed a distrubing trend on forums that allow political or religious discussion for members to define their friendships on these issues.....Sad imho...

My apologies to the members for the sidetrack.

Back to topic.
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Post by downhill »

rightwinger wrote:And the reason OBL is still free pre-dates President Bush's administration. More than once, he could have been handed to the United States on a silver platter but Klintoon, always afraid of public opinion, did not act on it. He didn't want to piss off muslims in this country or the rest of the world. F that, they're already pissed off at us, who gives a crap? But our national security is more important. Again and again he let his perception of public opinion steer him away from doing the right thing. If we had had possession of that maniac the WTC attack might have never happened.

Thanks Bill.............. :irate: :irate: :irate:
Oh boy........maybe a search on this subject is in order here, rw....it's been beat to death long before you joined up.

Can I ask you something? What was your reaction when Clinton bombed Iraq? How about when he sent orders to bomb the training camps in Afghanistan in an effort to kill bin Laden? Was it the same as Lott's and talk radio, national echo? To take attention away from the Lewinsky scandal?

bin Laden attacked America.....we sent a whole 15,000 troops to find him and bring him to justice...
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Post by SRF01 »

No one said it was a waste of time. They more then likely said it was based on a lie.

Oh and do not try to compare wwii with the war againt iraq. Ever.
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Post by rightwinger »

downhill wrote:Oh boy........maybe a search on this subject is in order here, rw....it's been beat to death long before you joined up.

Can I ask you something? What was your reaction when Clinton bombed Iraq? How about when he sent orders to bomb the training camps in Afghanistan in an effort to kill bin Laden? Was it the same as Lott's and talk radio, national echo? To take attention away from the Lewinsky scandal?

bin Laden attacked America.....we sent a whole 15,000 troops to find him and bring him to justice...
You forgot one more thing he used to draw heat off him and Blewinski...... Somalia. Every time he got caught with his weapon out of the hoster, American servicemen died somewhere. I lost friends in that fiasco.
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Post by rightwinger »

"Oh and do not try to compare wwii with the war againt iraq. Ever."

And why is that? Explain yourself. And it better be a better reasoned argument than the "Special Article" cited above. I would like to see that one.
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Post by YeOldeStonecat »

rightwinger wrote:For those of you that think the War in Iraq was a waste of time........
No, rehashing the subject over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and overv and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over

...is the waste of time.

Based on nickname, and current posting habits...hmmm....tick, tock, tick, tock.
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Post by SRF01 »

How old are you btw?

If you don't know then there's no use trying to explain it to you.
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Post by rightwinger »

SRF01 wrote:How old are you btw?

If you don't know then there's no use trying to explain it to you.
I'm 48, why?
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Post by SRF01 »

Wow that's just sad then.
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Post by nepenthe »

Rightwinger,

The search function is a marvelous tool available here at SG. Please feel free to utilize this handy little feature to locate the plethora of previous discussions regarding the aformentioned topic.

pax,
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I want to learn more and more to see as beautiful what is necessary in things; then I shall be one of those who make things beautiful. Amor fati: let that be my love henceforth! I do not want to wage war against what is ugly. I do not want to accuse; I do not even want to accuse those who accuse. Looking away shall be my only negation. And all in all and on the whole: some day I wish to be only a Yes-sayer.
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Post by Zilog B »

rightwinger wrote:.
Image Image Image
My son ... ask for thyself another internet connection, for that which I leave is too slow for thee
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Post by rightwinger »

schlurpee wrote:Image Image Image

ImageImageImage
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Post by Roody »

nepenthe wrote:Rightwinger,

The search function is a marvelous tool available here at SG. Please feel free to utilize this handy little feature to locate the plethora of previous discussions regarding the aformentioned topic.

pax,
david
I think it's safe to say though man that most new members dont think to do a search function when they first come on board so I am sure his repost is okay. :)
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Post by Bouncer »

rightwinger wrote:You forgot one more thing he used to draw heat off him and Blewinski...... Somalia. Every time he got caught with his weapon out of the hoster, American servicemen died somewhere. I lost friends in that fiasco.

Umm, try again. Or basically, stop lying. Learn your facts. Clinton INHERITED the SNAFU that was Somalia from George Bush. We left in March 94'. Lewinski didn't start working at the WhiteHouse until June of 95'.

But then, it's typical of a Republican to just make **** up. It's something in their moral character.

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Post by Bastid »

you know what cracks me up about all this is that everyone brings up that "oh its all based on a lie and thats just wrong" BS...wtf cares... look, we all know that W fd up when he anounced that...he sould have just said what he was going to do in the first place...albeit, i dont know if they would have let him do it but anyway...we all agree that Sadam needed to be taken out...he and his family were very bad ppl so with all that do you really feel that bad about a little lie that took a tyranical leader and his torturous sons out of power? yea granted OBL is still at large which stings and he also needs to be brought down...
and i had some other stuff i wanted to say that would be witty, poinient[sp] and insiteful but its like really early and the sun is out and i have huge amounts of stuff to do :D

and im going to QFT just a small section:
I do not understand why the American left does not grasp this. Too much television, I guess.

The liberals are supposed to be in favor of human rights, civil rights, liberty, freedom, and all that. But not for Iraqis, I guess. In America, but nowhere else. The 300,000 Iraqi bodies in mass graves in Iraq, not our problem. The United States population is about twelve times that of Iraq, so let's multiply 300,000 by twelve. What would you think if there were
3,600,000 American bodies in mass graves in America because of George Bush? Would you want another country to help liberate America?

''Peace Activists'' always seem to demonstrate where it's safe and ineffective to do so: in America. Why don't we see liberal peace activists demonstrating in Iran, Syria, Iraq, Sudan, North Korea, in the places in the world that really need peace activism the most?

The liberals are supposed to be in favor of human rights, civil rights, democracy, multiculturalism, diversity, etc., but if the Jihad wins, wherever the Jihad wins, it is the end of civil rights, human rights, democracy, multiculturalism, diversity, etc. American liberals who oppose the liberation of Iraq are coming down on the side of their own worst enemy. If the Jihad wins, it is the death of Liberalism. Everywhere the Jihad wins, it is the death of Liberalism.

And American liberals just don't get it.
.
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I often wonder if the voices in my head ever get frustrated because I'm just too damn lazy to climb that clock tower.
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Post by JawZ »

This president failed so miserably in diplomacy that we are now forced to war.
--Tom Daschle, last week, when President Bush, struck Iraq

We have exhausted all of our diplomatic effort to get the Iraqis to comply with their own agreements and with international law. Given that . . . we have got to force them to comply, and we are doing so militarily.
--Tom Daschle, in 1998, when President Clinton, struck Iraq


If Bush just spoke the truth, America would have been behind him all they way. All he had to do was stick to the facts, Iraq is in violation of UN resolutions, we don't like him, he's a mass murderer, and we are going to finish a job that my father was unable to achieve.

I'd risk my life to that end....and I did.
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Post by Bastid »

UOD wrote:If Bush just spoke the truth, America would have been behind him all they way. All he had to do was stick to the facts, Iraq is in violation of UN resolutions, we don't like him, he's a mass murderer, and we are going to finish a job that my father was unable to achieve.

I'd risk my life to that end....and I did.

thank you...sometimes my words get jumbled up to where i cant think and you have just statedin a couple lines what took me a few more to explain my feelings... :D if i got em greenies 2 u
Every normal man must be tempted at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
I often wonder if the voices in my head ever get frustrated because I'm just too damn lazy to climb that clock tower.
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Post by Blisster »

No way!!!! A mass grave in Iraq??!!??!!??!!??!No way!!!!






**Edited by Ken. Let's please keep this type of posts off of the boards. They serve no purpose, just a waste of band width...**
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Forget to take your medicine again today Blisster?

Post by rightwinger »

Blisster wrote:No way!!!! A mass grave in Iraq??!!??!!??!!??!

Time to get your lithium refilled I guess....
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Post by Bastid »

wow that was dissapointing...i took that little(you clicking on a link and reading something that you knew was going to be here) to snap and post some stupid SHEET like that...grow TF up dude!
Every normal man must be tempted at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
I often wonder if the voices in my head ever get frustrated because I'm just too damn lazy to climb that clock tower.
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Post by qball15j »

Felt like I was scrolling forever. :rolleyes:
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Post by YARDofSTUF »

The war was not a waste of time, it was just planned wrong.
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Post by JawZ »

Bastid wrote:thank you...sometimes my words get jumbled up to where i cant think and you have just statedin a couple lines what took me a few more to explain my feelings... :D if i got em greenies 2 u

No problem dude.

The really common sense part to all of this is the obvious overlook by Bush.

IF I wanted to sell a war on Iraq I would have told the American people this:

10+ years of containment....enough is enough. 10+ years of containment cost us how much? Time to end it once and for all.
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Post by Bastid »

YARDofSTUF wrote:The war was not a waste of time, it was just planned wrong.
even simpler TY G
Every normal man must be tempted at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
I often wonder if the voices in my head ever get frustrated because I'm just too damn lazy to climb that clock tower.
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Post by Bastid »

yeah, i really do believe that his advisors think that the ppl are really stupid, so he takes what they tell him he should do and does it because they are paid to advise him...which is a catch 22...he should go back to common sense leadership...JMO
Every normal man must be tempted at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
I often wonder if the voices in my head ever get frustrated because I'm just too damn lazy to climb that clock tower.
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Post by JawZ »

Bastid wrote:yeah, i really do believe that his advisors think that the ppl are really stupid, so he takes what they tell him he should do and does it because they are paid to advise him...which is a catch 22...he should go back to common sense leadership...JMO

Yep...and if we didn't take action in Iraq...we'd now be standing at 15 years of containment.

We can't contain a nation or it's leaders forever. At some point, we either have to bug out or go for an assault to end it. I don't think any sane person would have allowed us to simply bug out. And diplomacy was never an option! the world agreed to that end back in 1991 and was revalidated by Clinton in 1998.

For me, it was inevitable. I'm just not happy that we had to be sold a bunch of BS to make it happen.
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Post by wee96 »

The lying was stupid, should have just told the truth but the war I support. We need to stomp that side of the world, its needed it for centuries now and the Russians, while making a good attempt, didnt succeed.
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Post by Massa »

I wouldn't say we need to stomp that side of the world, but we do need to teach a lesson to about 4 or 5 countires that refuse to act peacefully. The world accuses the US of warmongering, and then they complain when they get attacked by terrosists. The US is the only nation with the balls to start something these days, and when we lose that... we will lose all our freedom.
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Post by De Plano »

The genocide of his own people by Hussein is surpassed only by that of Hitler and Stalin

Your 48 and still can't think of anyone who was responsible for more killing then Saddam? I have one Pol Pot, do you want more?

"They are not the evil American-hating people that the liberal network media and the people on the Conspiratorial News Network would have you believe they are"

Tin foil hat might help protect you from those airwaves, I never thought that about the Iraqis

"And yes Saddam did use weapons of mass destruction (gas) on his own people"
I do believe that was while Reagan was in office and was supporting Saddam. Can you give me the dates he was doing that?

"He used them against the Iranians as well, in the Iran/Iraq war."
That is why we were supporting him, because he was fighting Iran. We just figured as long he was gassing our enemies it is alright


This has been gone over before as was mentioned earlier
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Post by Jim »

Restating what was already said, but...

Honestly, I think myself and many other Americans would've found the Iraq pill much easier to swallow if it were being marketed to us as "Saddam is an evil dictator. He has committed numerous crimes against his own people, and this is one of many reasons why he should be stopped. This isn't about a possible indirect threat he may be to our country as much as it's about the threat he is to people of his region, especially those within his own borders. This is an evil man who will not listen to reasoning, and will only be stopped when he is directly removed from power."

Instead, we got "ZOMG HE'S GOT MILLIONS OF WMDs AND IS ALLIED WITH AL QAEDA! NEVER FORGET 9/11!!1" :rolleyes:
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Post by cho »

De Plano wrote:The genocide of his own people by Hussein is surpassed only by that of Hitler and Stalin

Your 48 and still can't think of anyone who was responsible for more killing then Saddam? I have one Pol Pot, do you want more?
:nod:

Pol Pot (leader of the Khmer Rouge) killed at least 1/4 of all the Cambodian people, and he was still supported by Canada,US,Europe and Japan.
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Post by Jon »

Bouncer wrote:Umm, try again. Or basically, stop lying. Learn your facts. Clinton INHERITED the SNAFU that was Somalia from George Bush. We left in March 94'. Lewinski didn't start working at the WhiteHouse until June of 95'.

But then, it's typical of a Republican to just make **** up. It's something in their moral character.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

:rolleyes:

no need to insult all Republicans for the actions of a few.

:rtfm:
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