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Roody wrote:Nepenthe I think based on your remarks that you missed exactly what it is I was saying. My point being that I belief in Creation and no teacher and/or class for that matter will change that belief. I have taken multiple classes regarding science and evolution during the course of my life and outside of the couple of christian schools I attended none of the others ever presented both sides of the story. In public schools they always offered up only a theory of Evolution and never dove into Creationism, a process that I can assure you the Christian schools I went to didn't take on themselves. All of the Christian schools I attended explored the idea of Evolution which was admirable IMO because unlike the public schools I attended they at least chose to look at the other side.

Roody wrote:All of the Christian schools I attended explored the idea of Evolution which was admirable IMO because unlike the public schools I attended they at least chose to look at the other side.

Ghosthunter wrote:Personally I think religion should be kept out of the public schools.

Ghosthunter wrote:Two problems with that.

1) Christian school can do whatever it wants because it is a Christian school

2) If you really want public schools to explore creationism like what Christians believe, then you need to explore ever single religion out there to be fair, from muslim, to wiccan and so on and their beliefs on how humans were created.

Roody wrote:There is a flaw in that remark GH. First, christian schools can only do what they want as you put it because in most cases if not all they are privately funded schools. Second, the Christian schools I went to did in fact explore other religions a situation I assure you didnt happen in the public schools I went too.

Ghosthunter wrote:confused arent you expecting public schools to also talk about creationism as well as evolution?

if this is not what you mean then i am mistaken

Roody wrote:Yes, It would be nice for the concept of Christianity to at least be discussed as opposed to being ignored. After all if we really want to educate our children then wouldn't it make sense to present more then 1 side of the story? Ignoring an idea or concept merely because its religious is like ignoring an idea because a minority thought of it. Its no less discriminatory.

stevebakh wrote:I think the point GH was making, is that there is simply not enough time in education to teach the creation ideas/stories of every religious that's out there.

Unfortunately, at the moment in the UK, religious education is part of the public education here, although I still believe it should be removed from any syllabus for a public funded school.

Roody wrote:Yes, It would be nice for the concept of Christianity to at least be discussed as opposed to being ignored. After all if we really want to educate our children then wouldn't it make sense to present more then 1 side of the story? Ignoring an idea or concept merely because its religious is like ignoring an idea because a minority thought of it. Its no less discriminatory.

Ghosthunter wrote:the problem you have is what about every other religion out there? Why just talk about christianity and not buddhism/judaism/muslim/wiccan/spiritualism and so on?

If you single one out will cause issues...

if you ask me there should be a course in all schools called religious tolerance, where you learn about all other religions..and learn none is abosultely correct and not to judge others on what their religion is...

ScottE wrote:I think god really ****ed up when he made me.

stevebakh wrote:I think the point GH was making, is that there is simply not enough time in education to teach the creation ideas/stories of every religious that's out there.

Unfortunately, at the moment in the UK, religious education is part of the public education here, although I still believe it should be removed from any syllabus for a public funded school.

Roody wrote:Yes, It would be nice for the concept of Christianity to at least be discussed as opposed to being ignored. After all if we really want to educate our children then wouldn't it make sense to present more then 1 side of the story? Ignoring an idea or concept merely because its religious is like ignoring an idea because a minority thought of it. Its no less discriminatory.

Melchizedek41 wrote:Prayer was taken out of school on June 25, 1962 and since then the troubles that children got into began to sore and the education levels declined. Interesting isn't it?

nepenthe wrote:With regard to history and holidays, Christianity is taught in public schools.

nepenthe wrote:With regard to history and holidays, Christianity is taught in public schools. Perhaps not in the depth that Christians would like. Then again, many topics are handled in a cursory manner.

Be mindful, that mosts faiths are immiscible and in conflict.

downhill wrote:Shortened for eyesight....and yes I did read it.


There's time enough for love....after the dinner dishes are done...

Thcranky1 wrote:Man...

I'm tempted to get a big ol' ball rollin' but instead of stakin' my claim of how 'It' is and 'Who' made this 'It' our reality...[even though some choose to deny 'It' through their own 'free-will' which ironically, is the same gift that differentiates humans from all other creatures in the world as well as the entire UNIVERSE more still, it is this 'seed of thought' so husbandly sown with infinately Superior amalgamation, that it is able to systematically legitimatize all the centuries of historical, philosphic debate on the concept of the existence or non-existence of an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent Creator]

...I'll respond thus:

"For someone to claim that man and his singularly unique dwelling in and of all the universe came to be simply by atoms and other space debris randomly bombarding each other is equal in claim that a typhoon raging through a junkyard could create a computer."

Well, I got myself going here. I have a letter which I'm going to share with you. It is one which I wrote in response to someone's claim that the Creator, His Word, His Son, Faith and the Holy Bible are all just myth and legend with no solidity whatsoever.

-To the Claim: "The Bible is Only a Myth"-
by
--THCRANKY1--

For someone to claim, "the Bible is only a myth or a set of camp fire tales told from a father to a son through generations or that there never really was a Jesus Christ," is giving to those who differ of opinion on the matter the tools to prove these claims are based on misinformation and ignorance. A 'certification of opportunity' if you will. When researched, one discovers that numerous pagan writers and historians mentioned Jesus' life, death, burial and ressurection with good detail. Flavius Josephus, a non Christian historian made numerous reference to Christ as did Cassius, a pagan historian from the second century. Thallus and Phlegon, two first century writers both of whom independantly of each other made reference of the darkness at noon which occurred when Christ died. There are actually around 20 non Christian historical sources outside of the New Testament that, in part or in whole, describe the life of Jesus. The fact is that someone could get a detailed outline of Jesus' existance without ever touching the New Testament. Finally, taking into account all of the Archeological, scientific evidence that coincides unmistakably with the Bible; for someone to conclude that it is not authentic either suffers from psychosis or is simply an historical agnostic. However, even after learning the facts of this reality some individuals choose to use that thing which distinguishes humans superior to all other creatures on Earth merely as a place to put their hat.

Isn't it ironic that they can accept the notion of strange beings from some galaxy **light years (see footnote) away, flying about our planet? Obviously they are a proponent of advocation through the ideaology of "heresay without research." Even with their "alien" philosophy they hurry back to their ignorant view of things. Remember, the Hubble Space Telescope observed the light or what is called "RED SHIFT REFLECTION" of two, slowly seperating stars which were located in a galaxy millions of light years from ours. Having verified this seperation it changed the theory to fact that our universe is still expanding. With the data that Hubble had given, astronomers were able to see the beginning of the universe! With all the new information about the formulation, birth, life, decline and death of stars that Hubble made possible astronomers have concluded for all intensive purposes that the Big Bang Theory is really Law. Astronomers were able to measure the seperation rate of these two stars for a period of six years which in turn made it theoretically possible for them to use this data in a reverse calculation formula. Once solved, this formula would answer the oldest question asked by mankind, "How old is the universe?"

With a special, specifically-tasked computer built to solve this single problem astronomers and the world had to wait for almost 9 months for the computer to solve the problem. Two years ago NASA released to the world the results of that computation and said that the universe is 12.5 to 15 Billion years old.

So, continuing on our original subject, one must think that it is awfully strange that even though Hubble can physically see galaxies millions and millions of light years from here it has yet to discover a single planet anywhere in the universe that even comes close to containing all the properties necessary to sustain life as we know it. Yes!! Earth is actually a planet that is irrefutably unique and scientifically proven in it's authenticity. There is not one other planet in all the universe, as far as we can see, able to sustain or even contain water like the Earth does!! But according to those that subscribe to this alien ideaology Earth is a Highway rest area or roadside tourist stop for the garden guru alien beings.

In all seriousness though it seems frightening that for some it is so easy to imagine these little green men actually exist and yet at the same time it is impossible for them to be able to understand the idea of a Creator Who is complete and unconditional love. Although, humorous or otherwise to those of us who understand, it is our duty not only as creatures of Faith but as humanitarians to enlighten those that live lives of ignorance and conjecture.
Lastly, let me have you ponder this for as long as you can keep yourself from the X-Box...

--For man to claim that we came about merely by atoms and space debris randomly bombarding throughout the universe is like saying that a typhoon blowing through a junkyard could create a computer-- God is, was and always will be...Absolutely!!!
** 1 Light year is obtained by traveling at the speed of light, 186,282 miles per second in a vacuum, for 1 year!!!
** 1 Year has 1,892,160,000 seconds in it...almost 2 billion seconds!!!
** 1 Light year of distance = 352,475,349,120,000miles That's almost 352.5 TRILLION!!! I hope the aliens packed a big lunch!!!



I appreciate you having brought up such a wonderful topic in the forum. Hopefully those who KNOW can bring those who do not to the place where they themselves will search for Him through His Living Word.

If a person of complete and unbiased mind picks up the Holy Bible simply seeking truth, then that is all they have to do because God will create a new, ever-blossoming relationship within them...as He promised.

When someone discovers that He really does exist, by reading the Good Book without doubt or prior opinion, it undeniably is a much more pleasant road of life to travel.

PEACE!!

--Thcranky1

Melchizedek41 wrote:You have done your home work haven't you? Amen to all of it, it's great to run into another believer on SG. Keep up the good work and God Bless

nepenthe wrote:They stopped spraying DDT around that time as well.... Perhaps that is the reason.... (J/K)

Do you beleive our children are less educated today than 40 years ago? What else is different in this world and in the home, outside of prayer in schools?

I would concur that teachers are no longer working from a position of power. This is a key problem.

sim shalom,
david

CiscoKid wrote:I am the one true god! all bow before me and worship me as your creator!

And not for some seriousness!

I beleice there is no real one all powerful "God" but rather that power is in all things in nature.

Melchizedek41 wrote:Computer Competition

Jesus and Satan were having an ongoing argument about who managed to get the most out of his computer. This had been going on for days and God was tired of hearing all of the bickering. God said, "Cool it. I am going to set up a test that will run two hours and I will judge who does the better job."

So down they sat at the keyboards and typed away.

They moused away.
They did spreadsheets,
They wrote reports,
They sent faxes,
They sent out e-mail,
They sent out e-mail with attachments,
They downloaded,
They did some genealogy reports,
They made cards,
They did every known job.

But just a few minutes before the two hours were up lightening flashed across the sky. The thunder rolled and the rains came down hard. And of course the electricity went off.

Satan was upset. He fumed and fussed and he ranted and raved. All, was to no avail. The electricity stayed off. But after a bit the rains stopped and the electricity came back on.

Satan screamed, "I lost it all when the power went off. What am I going to do? What happened to Jesus' work?"

Jesus just sat and smiled. Again Satan asked about the work that Jesus had done. As Jesus turned his computer back on the screen glowed and when he pushed "print," it was all there.

"How did he do it?" Satan asked. God smiled and said, "Jesus Saves."

Melchizedek41 wrote:Computer Competition

Jesus and Satan were having an ongoing argument about who managed to get the most out of his computer. This had been going on for days and God was tired of hearing all of the bickering. God said, "Cool it. I am going to set up a test that will run two hours and I will judge who does the better job."

So down they sat at the keyboards and typed away.

They moused away.
They did spreadsheets,
They wrote reports,
They sent faxes,
They sent out e-mail,
They sent out e-mail with attachments,
They downloaded,
They did some genealogy reports,
They made cards,
They did every known job.

But just a few minutes before the two hours were up lightening flashed across the sky. The thunder rolled and the rains came down hard. And of course the electricity went off.

Satan was upset. He fumed and fussed and he ranted and raved. All, was to no avail. The electricity stayed off. But after a bit the rains stopped and the electricity came back on.

Satan screamed, "I lost it all when the power went off. What am I going to do? What happened to Jesus' work?"

Jesus just sat and smiled. Again Satan asked about the work that Jesus had done. As Jesus turned his computer back on the screen glowed and when he pushed "print," it was all there.

"How did he do it?" Satan asked. God smiled and said, "Jesus Saves."

Melchizedek41 wrote:I understand your reponse about education could be different because of differences in the world, home etc. instead of just because of prayer and purhaps you are right but I will tell you about 11 years ago I watched a t.v. forum show that discussed the very issue I brought up. This is how I knew of the date they took prayer out of schools. At that time SAT scores had been researched. It had been found that in the public schools SAT scores decreased by about half what they were in 1962 and in the Catholic schools they declined a bit but were closer to the original SAT scores. Home schoolers tended to be even closer to the original SAT scores (*majority of homeschoolers do so because of their faith in God) and the scores that remain basically the same are that of private schools (The majority of which are Christian based). So that is why I am sold on the fact that much of the reason is due to prayer being taken out i.e.) "lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil". God gave us a free will and some have taken it and kicked God out of school. I do believe there are other factors involved but since all children in America have to go to school and will eventually grow up to shape the world, wouldn't it be smart of G-d's enemy to take him out at this level to begin the corruption he so desires? P.S. I am Melchizedek's wife and wrote out the poem but am not the author and I also remembered the date about prayer ceasing in schools because it just so happened to be the day my husband came into this world 42 years ago. So those of you who read this can wish him a happy birthday soon. God Bless and happy for any reply. Mel,s wife

akaralia wrote:seriously now you sound quite sure about your belief, as a matter of fact you make it sound like knowledge, is it really?
before we start writing we should remember that this is a 12 year old that has some serious questions, it is a mind easy to confuse or proselytize and all I have to ask here with all the respect required is that all you believers of any religion is that.
Can you prove to me the being of God. Do you have, not just hints beliefs or other fairy tales but scientifical hard proofs? Maybe you just speculate. But there has been a lot of blood runing down the history lane on these speculations. Of the idea of US "knowing", or "possesing" the one and only true, and of course the others, the infintels should go to hell, dissapear or die buy our holly hand if they do not accept our trouth.Oh! come on now I will ask every thinking human to start some investigation for their believes whatever they are (not the foundamentalists or fanatics unfortunally i do not think they are capable of indepentend thinking), but the rest of you please prove to me.
1) That there is REALLY a god
2) If there is HE or SHE is worth the blood

Sorry if my english are awkward but it is not my native language, but believe me I am not using the verb exist on purpose because i prefer the verb I am.

And there is 2 words that can start a lot of wars BELIEVE AND BELONG.

mccoffee wrote:What you just said is in phillsophical terms is "the ultamite turth" no one is 100 percent certain unless they have faith.

Theologist is mainly faith based

Science not to have a bysist opinon to get the turth.

So unless you have faith biased opinon you won't figure out the turth first hand.


as Ghost and I said you don't need to follow an organize religon to find god you could define your own concept of him

i think that approch is the comprise of all postions