Bush supports sending jobs abroad (seriously)

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jayyy
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Bush supports sending jobs abroad (seriously)

Post by jayyy »

The movement of American factory jobs and white-collar work to other countries is part of a positive transformation that will enrich the U.S. economy over time, even if it causes short-term pain and dislocation, the Bush administration said yesterday


The Seattle Times : "Bush Report: Sending jobs overseas helps U.S."

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: "Bush Economic Report Praises 'Outsourcing' Jobs."

The Orlando Sentinel : "Bush Says Sending Jobs Abroad Can be Beneficial."

The Los Angeles Times: "Bush Supports Shift of Jobs Overseas."

Got you covered, GH :D :D












Have you finished reading all that? Ready for the best part?

Bush, Speaking shortly after in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania:

People are looking for work because jobs have gone overseas and we need to act in this country. We need to act to make sure there are more jobs at home," Bush said as he touted his "21st century" job plan in a state that has lost 85,000 jobs since Bush took office.

Holy Flip-flop!!!
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Post by cho »

It would make sense, especially sending people over to China. Right now China's economy is booming and if all goes well by 2050 it will be the leading economy of the world.
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Post by jayyy »

Originally posted by *cho*
It would make sense, especially sending people over to China.


Jobs, not people. Jobs.
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Post by cho »

well are those jobs for americans???

Is he creating jobs for americans to be sent aboard..?

If he is creating jobs aboard and sending Americans over to work those jobs then the money for the most part will return to America. The example with China, since the economy is in a boom there is much demand for more jobs which means Bush can help set up American business associated with Chinese businesses and get a share of the profit for America.

if not I totally misunderstood sorry.
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Post by axtrader »

Originally posted by *cho*
well are those jobs for americans???

Is he creating jobs for americans to be sent aboard..?
um, no
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Post by cho »

So he is closing down factories over here to move them aboard for the cheaper labour then?


ahhh I kept misreading white-collar work as white-collar workers.
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Post by jayyy »

Originally posted by *cho*
well are those jobs for americans???

Is he creating jobs for americans to be sent aboard..?

if not I totally misunderstood sorry.


I don't blame you for misunderstanding, because the reality is mind-boggling.

But yeah, its saying that giving the chinese jobs that americans currently hold is good for the economy.
Funny is when a fat lady walks around while someone plays the tuba. Once you've seen that, you'll never laugh at anything else. Except maybe a skeleton dancing around while someone plays the xylophone, which is almost exactly the opposite of a fat lady walking around while someone plays the tuba. Well, a skeleton is the opposite of a fat lady. But is a xylophone the opposite of a tuba? History will decide.
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Post by TRILL »

What exactly would you suggest? Protectionism? I'm sure that would work out well. Just look at how well the steel tarrifs went over. A trade war is the last thing this economy needs. Outsourcing did not begin with Bush and won't end if Kerry takes office. Jobs will flow to the locations where good labor can be found cheapest. To somehow try and force companies to keep job stateside would stifle their ability to compete on a global scale.
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Post by cho »

Originally posted by jayyy
I don't blame you for misunderstanding, because the reality is mind-boggling.

But yeah, its saying that giving the chinese jobs that americans currently hold is good for the economy.



I could see how he would think so because if it doesn't cost as much to make then they can lower the retail price. If the retail price is lower more people will buy and if more people are spending money then the economy should go up.

However if those jobs are being sent out of America then how are the American workers suppose to get their money to buy the product...
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Post by Hopeful »

Sorta goes back to his trickle down theory of economics... which is a BUNCH of CR@P!!! Cuz... it reduces production costs (as workers work for much less there than here) and thus company heads get richer. At this point, its supposed to encourage them to lower prices of their products to stimulate economic growth, but this is not true. Rich are getting richer, poor, poorer.

I think it would encourage more growht to have Jobs stay here, and have more money enter the hands of our citizens, instead of discounts reaching us. Who's gunna want a coupon (lowered retail price) over cold hard cash (wages) anyway?
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Post by JawZ »

Where was the outrage during the H-1B influx of the last 10 years?

Jayyy...my OPINION is this: Neither side is looking out for the American worker. Jobs get tossed overseas for the cheap labor rates.....people get brought in from overseas and are paid cheap labor rates. The American worker is left high and dry.

The bottom line is this....consumer confidence means having a job and both Republicans AND Democrats have screwed Americans out of jobs.

I find it particularly funny how Congress manages their stock portfolio to outperform the market by 8% (they are getting 12%...while the average is 4%)....now you tell me who is looking out for the American worker. Nobody jayyy.
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Post by zooner »

Originally posted by TRILL
What exactly would you suggest? Protectionism? I'm sure that would work out well. Just look at how well the steel tarrifs went over. A trade war is the last thing this economy needs. Outsourcing did not begin with Bush and won't end if Kerry takes office. Jobs will flow to the locations where good labor can be found cheapest. To somehow try and force companies to keep job stateside would stifle their ability to compete on a global scale.


The difference is that bush KNEW that the steel tariffs were ILLEGAL under international law. The problem is that a couple of countries were flooding the US market, which is also illegal. Instead of correcting the problem, he created a new problem.

The states where steel is biggest were areas where he needed support, thus the tarriff's. He knew they wouldnt last, but when they were repealed, it wouldnt be his fault.

:( sad really.
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Post by Croc »

Wanna watch out guys.
You may end up as we are, importing prefab power stations and processing plants put together here in jigsaw fashion with overseas supervision.

IT support to India.

Even a move to send phone number enquiries to the Philipines by Telstra, the 51% Gov"t owned Telco!!!

The Union here has a simple slogan:

"Make It Here, or Jobs Disappear".

How true it is.

Croc.
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Post by jayyy »

Originally posted by UOD
I find it particularly funny how Congress manages their stock portfolio to outperform the market by 8% (they are getting 12%...while the average is 4%)....now you tell me who is looking out for the American worker. Nobody jayyy.


Really?? Wow, I'm gonna start buying whatever it is they're buying!
Funny is when a fat lady walks around while someone plays the tuba. Once you've seen that, you'll never laugh at anything else. Except maybe a skeleton dancing around while someone plays the xylophone, which is almost exactly the opposite of a fat lady walking around while someone plays the tuba. Well, a skeleton is the opposite of a fat lady. But is a xylophone the opposite of a tuba? History will decide.
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Post by JawZ »

Originally posted by jayyy
Really?? Wow, I'm gonna start buying whatever it is they're buying!


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Seriously....they are engaged in some heavy insider trading. they outperform the various brokerages...ALL of them.
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Post by Meggie »

since bush came into office, all but 2 states have not increased in unemployment rates. (newsweek)

Connecticut is up 5.5 percent. now i just saw on the news our Bic manufacturing place here is going to do just what u suggested, laying off over 300 workers and moving the jobs overseas.

they need to do something soon about it. or where are going to have very few jobs left in the states.
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Post by downhill »

As long as corporations run the campains of Congress and the Whitehouse..expect more of it.

Want change? Demand laws that harness what these companies are doing.
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Post by Ghosthunter »

Originally posted by downhill
As long as corporations run the campains of Congress and the Whitehouse..expect more of it.

Want change? Demand laws that harness what these companies are doing.



Maybe american worker are just lazy and companies are looking elsewhere.
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Post by YARDofSTUF »

Originally posted by Ghosthunter
Maybe american worker are just lazy and companies are looking elsewhere.


What about the ones that have the job already and the company lays them off to go over seas for a cheaper price.
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Post by downhill »

Originally posted by Ghosthunter
Maybe american worker are just lazy and companies are looking elsewhere.


Lazy? GH..I'm an American worker and 20 years your senior...Do you think you can keep up with me? Serious now......that was an insult to a lot of Americans. You, yourself are always hitting home of how hard you work....You would be included in that statement, no?
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Post by Ghosthunter »

Originally posted by downhill
Lazy? GH..I'm an American worker and 20 years your senior...Do you think you can keep up with me? Serious now......that was an insult to a lot of Americans. You, yourself are always hitting home of how hard you work....You would be included in that statement, no?


I should correct that maybe a lot..not all



Lets face it, most american workers will do the least amount of work to get trough the day, i see it all the time.

A lot dont put 100% in, they put in the minimum then on top of it expect raises even though they did not deserve it.

Now take foreigners who come in from other countries and you can see a huge work ethic difference.

When I worked at Sony, they put in 12 hour day minimum with no complaints no overtime, and the average was 15 hours.
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Post by YARDofSTUF »

GH I agree foriegners will work very hard. I work with a bunch and agree with u there.

But outsourcing also lowers the cost of employment for companies. So even if americans work just as hard, it still costs more to pay us.
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Post by downhill »

Originally posted by Ghosthunter
I should correct that maybe a lot..not all



Lets face it, most american workers will do the least amount of work to get trough the day, i see it all the time.

A lot dont put 100% in, they put in the minimum then on top of it expect raises even though they did not deserve it.

Now take foreigners who come in from other countries and you can see a huge work ethic difference.

When I worked at Sony, they put in 12 hour day minimum with no complaints no overtime, and the average was 15 hours.


Ok....from my experience in work. those who complain the most about other workers are usually the first to lay down on the job..

I also belive that yes there are deadbeats...Do you not think you see that in other countries as well?

I don't know where the US stands right now among others for productivity, but in the mid 90's we passed the Japanese for that hollowed position of first. I wonder if your just not passing off "long standing clichés" as gospel.

Lazy eh? I'm still mulling that one over...
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Post by JawZ »

DH & GH,

You both have valid points but both can be refuted with real scenarios. It's all based on the situation. My wife works for Merck-Medco here in NJ. The majority of their force is from India...my wife tells me that they are lazy as hell. My wife doesn't lie. She receives awards and accolades all the time for her work ethic. On one hand, capitalism needs to adjust to the economic situation at hand to survive....but it comes at a cost. There is always a tradeoff. I would love to see American jobs stay in America and be held by Americans....but in some cases it just doesn't seem feasible without there being some form of negative impact. I feel that we need balance...but how do we achieve that with a two party system...a system that thrives on power and partisanship? Too many government regs...businesses leave...not enough....consumers and workers are impacted as well as the environment.
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Post by downhill »

Lets face it, most american workers will do the least amount of work to get trough the day, i see it all the time.

A lot dont put 100% in, they put in the minimum then on top of it expect raises even though they did not deserve it.


Ok..UOD...lets just say that I agee to disagee and to lump us all in as lazy.....

How did we get to the productivity level we did in the 90's if everyone was lazy.

Would posting on SG while working also be considered when you figure in that 100 percent thing?

I'm off work right now as the Feds won't let me work in my job enviroment if I haven't had 8 hours straight rest in a 24 hour period....I'm just getting ready to head out the door and GOOF OFF for the rest of the day.....(Kidding of course, simply because like MOST Americans...I have pride in what I do. )...


Now if that raise thing was pointed at the top of most American companies...then I'd have to agree with GH.. ;)

Have a good one. :)
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Post by brembo »

Originally posted by Ghosthunter

Lets face it, most american workers will do the least amount of work to get trough the day, i see it all the time.

A lot dont put 100% in, they put in the minimum then on top of it expect raises even though they did not deserve it.



Gee I must be lazy. Guess I'll get myself fired and collect unemployment, since I am a lazy sack of ****.

That kinda statement really steams my clams GH. American workers are some of the most productive in the world. The job go overseas because the wages are sooooo much cheaper by the hour. Other gov'ts don't have OSHA, benefits, overtime, or pensions. Its not a level playing field for American companies, and that creates problems. Don't blame the one "class" of person that cannot change the situation, the American worker.
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Post by Blisster »

Originally posted by *cho*
well are those jobs for americans???

Is he creating jobs for americans to be sent aboard..?

If he is creating jobs aboard and sending Americans over to work those jobs then the money for the most part will return to America. The example with China, since the economy is in a boom there is much demand for more jobs which means Bush can help set up American business associated with Chinese businesses and get a share of the profit for America.

if not I totally misunderstood sorry.


If you got sent to Chine to work at an 'American job' (whatever that is) would the American economy really matter to you anymore, now that you're living in China? Seems like you would then be more concerned with the Chineese economy.

I don't want to have to go to friggin' china to have a job, I wnat to work HERE where I live, where my home is.
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Post by Ghosthunter »

Originally posted by brembo
Gee I must be lazy. Guess I'll get myself fired and collect unemployment, since I am a lazy sack of ****.

That kinda statement really steams my clams GH. American workers are some of the most productive in the world. The job go overseas because the wages are sooooo much cheaper by the hour. Other gov'ts don't have OSHA, benefits, overtime, or pensions. Its not a level playing field for American companies, and that creates problems. Don't blame the one "class" of person that cannot change the situation, the American worker.

Why do people get offended if you are not the ones i was talking about?

It was more of a generalization overview from my experiences difference from working from a Japanese company and an American Company

I see a huge work ethic difference between the two, and you wonder why Japanese own the electronic market?
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Post by SeedOfChaos »

Evan, I don't think a multi party system like in Europe would really help all that much. After all we got the same sh**, different country.

GH, I don't buy your "Americans are lazy" argument. Check for average work hours per year in an international comparison. I will bet you $ 200 (or more, if you wish) that every single EU country will have a considerably lower rate. Just for starters.

They key word here, as in similar threads before, is globalization. This is the darker side of the medal. The brighter side of the medal are the cheap Nike shoes made in China, like millions of other products that we else couldn't afford in these quantities. It's just that we as the rich west would like to have just one side of it and not the other, which is of course a paradox.

If the multinational companies are left to continue unhindered, globalization will put us all into nasty dead ends. IMO laissez-faire policy is not appropriate at this time of human development. We need benevolent governments not run by corporations, whose obvious goal is greed of the "owners", in order to efficiently counter the ill effects of globalization. Unfortunately, we do not have this type of government.

I'm not sure if mankind has ever seen a benevolent government yet. If you look closely enough, there have always been those who lived off the work of others, simply because they own something by birthright. And this is the real problem. It's not rational. It's not what our constitutions promise, equal starting conditions for everyone. And as long as equal starting conditions for everyone aren't provided, and especially if those who were lucky enough - that's all it takes, really - to be born with privileges constitute the largest part of the government, I have a hard time calling that government truely benevolent.

It would be a real start to eliminate all forms of inheritance, but I know as well as you do that this isn't gonna happen in the next few millennia. I see inheritance as one of the major pillars of injustice in this world. Inheritance is not natural either from my obvservation (correct me if I'm wrong). I don't think there's any animal that will give its young the exclusive right to their former hunting grounds, for example. (Most) animals cannot really grasp the idea of possession, therefore much less inheritance. You can argue that since they cannot grasp the idea, the fact that they don't inherit is irrelevant. I think we humans are animals, and if we are to live in harmony with nature - which should be our goal if we are not to ruin our habitat - we need to rethink our ways.

Anyway, IMO native Americans were pretty close to a good start in this respect: you cannot own land. In abstract principle, the idea that a piece of land is my possession is absolutely rediculous, even more so inheritance. Name me one good reason why some people should own parts of land with riches, gold mines and oil fields for example, just because they were born as children of their parents? Why should they be in control of this natural resource, and thus riches for which they did nothing to deserve the wealth, other than being born. Why should they, with these riches, have the power over others, which were simply unlucky, because their parents didn't own any land? I cannot see any plausible rational reason for this behavior. It's painfully clear that it serves none but those few who "have" at the expense of the "have-nots", and it's not even ending, but through the concept of inheritance this injustice is perpetuated, and through the concept of interest even compounded and aggravated over the years. Imagine if you had invested three kilograms of gold 2,000 years back... imagine kings who "invested" tons of gold... why should we perpetuate and compound (!) this injustice?!?

Okay, back to the real world (just for a moment :D ). This is where we are at, and obviously it's impossible to switch to this ideal state of things in short-, mid-, or even long-term. This type of change would require centuries. And thus it's not gonna happen, it won't serve the individual interests of anyone in their lifetime, and hence nobody will do so. Especially since essentially those who have the money are those in power, money is pretty much equal to power. They have profited from this system already, why should they not wish the best for their offspring? It's "human" to feel this way, I can't really blame them as individuals. But in total, it doesn't serve mankind at all, quite on the contrary, in essence it's the source of many of this world's evils.

Think of it this way: if you couldn't own or inherit land, do you think the situation in Israel/Palestine would be anywhere close to what it is today? And that is just one example. How many wars have been fought over territory? How many people were left dead in the process, how many maimed, and how many traumatized? Even more so, if territory couldn't be owned, there wouldn't be the sort of nation that you have now. Without the division into nations, I don't think we would've even developed weapons of mass destruction. Nukes, chem and bio warfare all require extensive amount of research to shape all three "natural hazards" into optimized weapons. If we wouldn't be divided into nations and people, this research would have never been done. For what? It would've been seen simply a waste of resources. Which EVERY war is. It's destructive, not constructive. In total, mankind loses with every war. Wars that wouldn't be fought because there's nothing to gain.

Now, mankind didn't just drop on the earth out of nowhere two years ago, with phones, internet and all already in place. A few centuries back people over here didn't even know that an "over there" even existed. But now we do. And by now we have efficient means to communicate. If I want, I can grab netmeeting and talk to any of you guys and even see you. At no extra cost, since internet is flat rate. Do you guys even realize what this can mean for mankind?

To me it's almost time we conclude the step into the information age. With the industrial revolution came democracy, with the information age there will be another political revolution. There NEEDS to be one. Because now we can all see painfully clear that there are just too many things headed the wrong way in this world. It's almost time, but not quite the time yet. First, our task is to help the rest of the world to develop to a degree (help aimed towards helping themselves) where they can join in gigantic chat party going on. Then we need some time to exchange, to tell stories and compare, and to draw our conclusions. But we might even live to see it, there will be a point where we all (at least the "ordinary" folks, and thus vast majority) will become discontent enough with our current world order.

I know some people, especially some types of Christians, are allergic to the phrase "new world order" and hence I will rather use "just world order". What I want to see in my lifetime is mankind finally getting its act together. In the sense that we realize that we're all human beings, regardless of whether your skin is white, black, blue, green or yellow. That we all are worth the same (invaluable), and that we need to cooperate to continue to exist. I also firmly believe that we CAN pull this off. It won't happen over night, as I said, but we CAN make changes if we all participate. I think we do need a world government, but not in a system that is anywhere close to ours. It would definately need to be a benevolent world government, one that genuinely cares about its citizens. Furthermore, we need to slowly amalgamate part of our cultures into a sort of world culture. This doesn't mean that we have to do away with culture in total, or even different languages. It just means that all subdivisions (former countries) would be required to adhere to certain standards regarding law, wages, level of education, etc. A global centralized government would be about the worst imaginable scenario right now, at least with current technology, but global standards regarding law and the equal opportunity to live life to the fullest for every human and a body to enforce those standards aren't. So I'd say let the "citizens" of every "state" deal with all kinds of stuff themselves, like beliefs, language, food, you know, most parts that constitute "culture". But certain crucial issues should be fixed and declared valid for every human being on earth in a global constitution.

I repeat myself often, I know, but it's important to understand that all of this cannot happen over night. I'm sure with the average attention span nowadays, few people even bothered to read my entire post. And that is the first and most important problem that we need to tackle. Long-term planning is required here. Mankind needs a new vision. We need to shake off the apathy that this system has put on us ("what can I against it all???"). We have to muster the will to do better as a whole. Together.

Now, to make a full circle and finally get back on topic, globalization in its current form is the contrary to the vision that I just described. Because it's developed and pushed by greed (multinational corporations, remember?) and the lust for as much profit in the least amoung of time, which logically leads to a myopic view ("shareholder value" being a key word here), which in the end only serves to reinforce the old way of inheritance, to perpetuate and amplify the injustice carried over since thousands of years. This is why I believe laissez-faire is the wrong way to go. Now let's try to convince our governments that they should have our well-being in mind and not that of corporations, that should be enough of a task at hand for starters.

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Ron :D

P.S.: And before anyone thinks this post is due to envy, you're wrong. My parents afforded me the best possible education everything I desired and that money could buy, up to the point where I said enough, I want to earn my own money, please keep yours. Just through this education they afforded me I realize that there are too many who were not as fortunate as I was. :)
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Post by JawZ »

Originally posted by downhill
Ok..UOD...lets just say that I agee to disagee and to lump us all in as lazy.....

How did we get to the productivity level we did in the 90's if everyone was lazy.

Would posting on SG while working also be considered when you figure in that 100 percent thing?

I'm off work right now as the Feds won't let me work in my job enviroment if I haven't had 8 hours straight rest in a 24 hour period....I'm just getting ready to head out the door and GOOF OFF for the rest of the day.....(Kidding of course, simply because like MOST Americans...I have pride in what I do. )...


Now if that raise thing was pointed at the top of most American companies...then I'd have to agree with GH.. ;)

Have a good one. :)


Could you get my comments any more ass backwards? LOL

I said....that the assumption that people are or are not lazy is based upon the situation and every situation is different.

So you need to reread my post DH.

If you do, you will clearly see that there are hard workers AND there are lazy bastards. Like I said...both you and GH have valid points...but neither of you is totally correct.

I'll post my previous for you....since you were to lazy to read it the first time LOL!
DH & GH,

You both have valid points but both can be refuted with real scenarios. It's all based on the situation. My wife works for Merck-Medco here in NJ. The majority of their force is from India...my wife tells me that they are lazy as hell. My wife doesn't lie. She receives awards and accolades all the time for her work ethic. On one hand, capitalism needs to adjust to the economic situation at hand to survive....but it comes at a cost. There is always a tradeoff. I would love to see American jobs stay in America and be held by Americans....but in some cases it just doesn't seem feasible without there being some form of negative impact. I feel that we need balance...but how do we achieve that with a two party system...a system that thrives on power and partisanship? Too many government regs...businesses leave...not enough....consumers and workers are impacted as well as the environment.
Further more.....humans gravitate to the least stress be it physical or emotional. To prove my point, let me ask you a question....did you walk to work today DH or did you drive yourself? It's natural to pursue the path of least resistance....and there are those workers who apply this concept on a daily basis while there are those that work their ass off.

The reason why I responded to this thread is because I saw the phrase that foreigners have a much better work ethic than Americans and I can honestly say that statement is complete BS. Foreigners are people...and we have hard working people and lazy people all over the globe. But to generalize and say that foreigners have a much better work ethic than Americans is BS just as it is BS to say that there are no lazy American workers....there are.

So what is so difficult to understand here?

You good people continue to generalize and type cast and stereotype and I'm not going to let it go unchallenged.
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JawZ
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Post by JawZ »

Seed,


I generally agree with everything you say but I do think that there are a few areas where you may want to refine your ideas.

First of all, what type of government, by design, lends itself to being benevolent?

My point is this: the physical structure of a government can neither help nor harm humans...when the government structure is populated by humans, then we can characterize it's effectiveness. IMHO...almost any type of government is capable of being benevolent if it's leaders subscribe to those principles. So for me...it's a people issue and not one of government structure.

Secondly, inheritance comes in many forms...it seems to me that you only think about the money aspect. Again, I find your view to be a little too narrow for my liking. If someone works hard all their life...makes and save alot of money and decides to pass it on to their heirs so that they can better themselves (education, better standard of living, etc) then why not allow it? I do see your point in how certain inheritance situations aggravate problems which you outlined but I think it's relevant to a minority population. Maybe we need to rethink the inheritance tax. Maybe it should be setup in grades to prevent the situation which you are concerned about. I think you are trying to avoid the rich getting richer...and I agree with that....but to abolish it would affect everyone....even the poor and middle classses who could use it the most.

Lastly, with so many countries and cultures still in the beginning stages of development, I don't think a one world government is appropriate at this time. We very much need local governments which can effectively deal with issues at the local level. To burden small governments with a centrist agenda imho would be wrong. So I do agree that we need to aid our neighbors in development first.

I lied...this will be my last point....

Equality. I'm afraid that we are not born equal but we should all be afforded equal protection and afforded equal rights under the law. That is equality.

L8tr dude!

:D
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downhill
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Post by downhill »

Seed, you wanted a response from me..and you shall get it. Generally I agree with your whole post...Some deep thinking my friend. UOD hit on some of the same subject matter when he posted on the Unibomber paper..I'm home for a VERY late lunch and back off to work...I'm going to once again..get my lazy butt in gear for yet antother 12 hour day. It's cheaper to pay all that overtime than it is to hire more people...


UOD..only take my first line in that post. The rest was directed at Mr. GH......My bad for not seperating them. :) It seems we both agree. Reread my posts...yes there are bums, but as a whole..the USA has a very productive work force. As humans....what I would agree with is that a lot of people complain like the dickens when they see ANYONE slacking..Why? See GH's post...He' loves to complain about slackers while posting here. lol
Further more.....humans gravitate to the least stress be it physical or emotional. To prove my point, let me ask you a question....did you walk to work today DH or did you drive yourself? It's natural to pursue the path of least resistance....and there are those workers who apply this concept on a daily basis while there are those that work their ass off.


I sometimes cover most of southern Idaho.....so how about walk......UOD..I'm a maintainer with a district that covers about 50 miles.....I'm supplied a truck..But you know what, I'll get out of that truck and walk maybe 5 to 10 miles of track or poleline just about every working day...Why? First because that's just part of the job if your doing it right..Secondly, pride....and the last reason is so people like you can get your widgets coming from China on time. Man..everyday is a monday. I don't know why the "how did you get to work thing" jumped in there...but I found it somewhat insulting ...to say the least.


I can't wait for retirement so I can be a frigging lazy ass bum. ;)
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Post by brembo »

DHD-

I'd walk you into the ground.....ya see I have hills to deal with, you have those nice spiffy flat railroad lines. I make my lines with a machette :D I do like walking the rail, I get a rythm goin on the cross ties.....oh I had to locate about 1/4 mile of railroad for a recent survey. The rails worked out to 4.79' feet apart. Someone that has a brain left can figure out the inches from that, my noggin is turned off and in "deadbeat" mode.
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downhill
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Post by downhill »

Originally posted by brembo
DHD-

I'd walk you into the ground.....ya see I have hills to deal with, you have those nice spiffy flat railroad lines. I make my lines with a machette :D I do like walking the rail, I get a rythm goin on the cross ties.....oh I had to locate about 1/4 mile of railroad for a recent survey. The rails worked out to 4.79' feet apart. Someone that has a brain left can figure out the inches from that, my noggin is turned off and in "deadbeat" mode.



True...how are you with climbing poles. :D
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Post by Paft »

Originally posted by brembo
The rails worked out to 4.79' feet apart. Someone that has a brain left can figure out the inches from that, my noggin is turned off and in "deadbeat" mode.


57.48 inches, unless the ' after 4.79 means something other than just a "feet" symbol.
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Post by cho »

Originally posted by Blisster
If you got sent to Chine to work at an 'American job' (whatever that is) would the American economy really matter to you anymore, now that you're living in China? Seems like you would then be more concerned with the Chineese economy.

I don't want to have to go to friggin' china to have a job, I wnat to work HERE where I live, where my home is.


American job in China = an American company starting up in China and yes they would still have an impact on the American economy because the money made by that American company would be coming back into the states in a from of GNP ( Gross National Product).
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Post by Norm »

Ronald, with respect, I did read your entire post.
I'm very short on spare time right now, so I must be brief. Tons more I would have said had you posted this about a year ago.

I am in agreement with your vision. I am in agreement with your ideals as well. Humans working for humanity instead of the 'almighty dollar', and governments working for the people, instead of big business and power. (although working for big business in this ideal vision of yours could mean businesses are doing the same, working for the people)

I can also agree that it can be achieved if the effort and will was there as well.

I do fear though, that to reach the goal, more blood will need to be spilled to rid the world of opposition to it. Just like any other great plan that involves changes of magnitude, there are those who will sacrifice for the 'plan', and there will be those who will sacrifice to oppose it.

Let the best men win!!!

Norm

[edit]Sorry for deviating from the thread topic, but I was politely asked to reply to a specific post, thanks for understanding. I hope we can all get along in the new world.[edit]
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Post by downhill »

Originally posted by Norm
Ronald, with respect, I did read your entire post.
I'm very short on spare time right now, so I must be brief. Tons more I would have said had you posted this about a year ago.

I am in agreement with your vision. I am in agreement with your ideals as well. Humans working for humanity instead of the 'almighty dollar', and governments working for the people, instead of big business and power. (although working for big business in this ideal vision of yours could mean businesses are doing the same, working for the people)

I can also agree that it can be achieved if the effort and will was there as well.

I do fear though, that to reach the goal, more blood will need to be spilled to rid the world of opposition to it. Just like any other great plan that involves changes of magnitude, there are those who will sacrifice for the 'plan', and there will be those who will sacrifice to oppose it.

Let the best men win!!!

Norm

[edit]Sorry for deviating from the thread topic, but I was politely asked to reply to a specific post, thanks for understanding. I hope we can all get along in the new world.[edit]


Wow........I think Norm already coverd the bases here...

Seed, this..
Now, to make a full circle and finally get back on topic, globalization in its current form is the contrary to the vision that I just described. Because it's developed and pushed by greed (multinational corporations, remember?) and the lust for as much profit in the least amoung of time, which logically leads to a myopic view ("shareholder value" being a key word here), which in the end only serves to reinforce the old way of inheritance, to perpetuate and amplify the injustice carried over since thousands of years. This is why I believe laissez-faire is the wrong way to go. Now let's try to convince our governments that they should have our well-being in mind and not that of corporations, that should be enough of a task at hand for starters.


What a fine way to end your post. I'd say you hit the nail on the head. First off...we need to understand that corporations shoudn't have the same rights as you or I. Stateside they do....to a degree. Something that needs changed.

When I was around 14 or so....I picked up "Brave New World" by Huxley. That book insprired me to dream about Utopia. Huxley explored that idea in several of his books. Always adding into the story, human failings....It's an idea I've thought about over the years..

Dunno.....I just think we need to evolve more as a species. The selfishness you see in Government leaders, the crony capitalism, and so , at least for me, doesn't show a lot of compasion for our fellow man but a very narrow focus on self.

Great post, my friend. :)

UOD had a thread about the The Unibomber Manifesto. I wonder if Ted Kaczynski, although nuts, wasn't also a visionary..
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Post by jayyy »

If I were Kerry I would run this claim into the ground. I can't believe the Bush Admin is so wacked out with their cronyism to big business that they actually claimed this...in an election year. I would make it central to the campaign.

And you know what it means when they backpedal, right?

BUSH FLIP-FLOPS!! :p
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Post by Ghosthunter »

Originally posted by downhill
Wow........I think Norm already coverd the bases here...

Seed, this..


What a fine way to end your post. I'd say you hit the nail on the head. First off...we need to understand that corporations shoudn't have the same rights as you or I. Stateside they do....to a degree. Something that needs changed.

When I was around 14 or so....I picked up "Brave New World" by Huxley. That book insprired me to dream about Utopia. Huxley explored that idea in several of his books. Always adding into the story, human failings....It's an idea I've thought about over the years..

Dunno.....I just think we need to evolve more as a species. The selfishness you see in Government leaders, the crony capitalism, and so , at least for me, doesn't show a lot of compasion for our fellow man but a very narrow focus on self.

Great post, my friend. :)

UOD had a thread about the The Unibomber Manifesto. I wonder if Ted Kaczynski, although nuts, wasn't also a visionary..



Simple you dont like it then start your own corporation and change it that way instead of through the government. Use your own corporation as an example.
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