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I agree with JawZ in the fact that we can't compromise our freedoms by taking a stand against them building. We may not like it but it's not illegal.

We are walking a fine line here if we stand against this as a nation. Hilter did the same thing.

Is the mosque a BIG F-U? Very well could be.

The big question you have to ask is do you want to give the government enough power to stop it.

And if they do...what will they stop next.

YARDofSTUF wrote: Such a troll.

sound like miggs and his great america thing. everyonethingbodies a troll you don't agree with.

ot
btw you still living in moms basement?

Xpunge wrote:btw you still living in moms basement?

Never have.

Xpunge wrote:sound like miggs and his great america thing. everyonethingbodies a troll you don't agree with.

ot
btw you still living in moms basement?

There is so many other effective arguments you can make besides channeling Miggs.

After thinking about this thread for a while.. I've come to the following conclusions.

My 4 cents:

1) I do believe that there are "moderate Muslims" in America and elsewhere, that do not share the same violent / "join us or die" beliefs as the radicals do. There are many views out there that says that the Koran / Quran refers that all Muslims need to have these "Radical" beliefs and do "Jihad" but I still think that the "moderate Muslims" do not think this way.

2) I do know... that there are many "radical Muslims" all around, many more than you may think. One only has to go on "You Tube" to hear their message loud and clear to both "moderate Muslims" counterparts and "non-believers". They only believe this "join us or die" way of life, that's it. I think that "moderate Muslims" do not like to denounce this sort of talk, because "some" of what the "radicals" do talk about does come from the Koran / Quran, which is sacred to them.

3) I don't think we should be against "moderate Muslims".. I think we should stand behind Freedom of Religion and show them that we are "not" like what the "radical Muslims" try to twist us around to seem. This might be the only way forward to stop the "radicals Muslims" from converting "moderates" and "non-believers".

4) Don't get me wrong.. I don't like the idea of the Mosque near the 9/11 site, and we really "do not know" if the backers of this Mosque are "radicals Muslims" or not. But there is nothing we can do to stop it, else we become what the "radicals" want us to become. We need to keep tolerance for the Muslims who are peaceful and keep a friendly pro-active dialog going, while keeping vigilant and reactive to those who are not and wish to harm not only the U.S.A. but other non-Muslims countries as well.

Shinobi wrote:After thinking about this thread for a while.. I've come to the following conclusions.

My 4 cents:

1) I do believe that there are "moderate Muslims" in America and elsewhere, that do not share the same violent / "join us or die" beliefs as the radicals do. There are many views out there that says that the Koran / Quran refers that all Muslims need to have these "Radical" beliefs and do "Jihad" but I still think that the "moderate Muslims" do not think this way.

2) I do know... that there are many "radical Muslims" all around, many more than you may think. One only has to go on "You Tube" to hear their message loud and clear to both "moderate Muslims" counterparts and "non-believers". They only believe this "join us or die" way of life, that's it. I think that "moderate Muslims" do not like to denounce this sort of talk, because "some" of what the "radicals" do talk about does come from the Koran / Quran, which is sacred to them.

3) I don't think we should be against "moderate Muslims".. I think we should stand behind Freedom of Religion and show them that we are "not" like what the "radical Muslims" try to twist us around to seem. This might be the only way forward to stop the "radicals Muslims" from converting "moderates" and "non-believers".

4) Don't get me wrong.. I don't like the idea of the Mosque near the 9/11 site, and we really "do not know" if the backers of this Mosque are "radicals Muslims" or not. But there is nothing we can do to stop it, else we become what the "radicals" want us to become. We need to keep tolerance for the Muslims who are peaceful and keep a friendly pro-active dialog going, while keeping vigilant and reactive to those who are not and wish to harm not only the U.S.A. but other non-Muslims countries as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad


This is your best line...

But there is nothing we can do to stop it, else we become what the "radicals" want us to become.

Building a mosque so close to ground zero really isn’t that much of a problem, seeing women with burkas on going in and out the mosque might cause some problems. The building itself won’t cause a problem, it’s the people going in and out the building that will be a reminder of 9/11 to some people.

I still think the local and federal government should stay out of the affair. Any person or company that helps build or renovate the building should be boycotted.

Hit’em in the pocketbook, where it hurts.

I need to read the Quran one day to see what the Muslim religion is all about.

Many web sites that claim all Jews follow Talmudic law to the letter. No so, I promise you! Most Christians I know hope the holy of holies grade on a curve. Perhaps not all Muslims are those of the radical persuasion.

I am inclined to agree that the location of the Mosque is chaffing, however the USofA is a better place because we DO permit it.

David wrote: I am inclined to agree that the location of the Mosque is chaffing, however the USofA is a better place because we DO permit it.

Exactly.

David wrote: I am inclined to agree that the location of the Mosque is chaffing, however the USofA is a better place because we DO permit it.

Awww but don't forget also here in the USofA we also have a great legal system that can even send a innocent man to jail or release a rapist back into the wild. Going through hell and back from a lawsuit prospective I don't believe it will ever get the first shovel of dirt scooped.

What's wrong in building a mosque there.I've never seen so much debate when building a mosque in other countries.

SlyOneDoofy wrote:I agree with JawZ in the fact that we can't compromise our freedoms by taking a stand against them building. We may not like it but it's not illegal.

We are walking a fine line here if we stand against this as a nation. Hilter did the same thing.

Is the mosque a BIG F-U? Very well could be.

The big question you have to ask is do you want to give the government enough power to stop it.

And if they do...what will they stop next.

A simple answer to the question is that people there does not like muslims.

With reference to Al Qaeda, how is this Mosque different than any other Mosque in New York? Is it the location that makes it special to the terrorists also?

JawZ wrote:If there is a reason for this thing to not be built, it would be for safety because I'm going to tell you with absolute certainty that this mosque would be target numero uno for the Islamic terrorists of the world.

There won't be one friggin penny contributed from any terrorist network as this is COMPLETELY against their view of Islam. They hate their own kind trying to assimilate into a non-Islamic society MORE then they hate infidels.




EDIT: The Imam in charge of this project has been declared an enemy of Al Qaeda.

JBrazen wrote:The majority of American people aren't against healthcare reform but they damn sure were against HIS version of healthcare reform which they said needed to be passed before we could fully understand it Just look at what's come out since it's been enacted and you'll see that we were all hoodwinked.

Anyway, back on topic. 70% of Americans do not want this mosque built there, whether they have the right to build there or not. This isn't about restricting their rights to worship. Nobody would care if they built elsewhere in NYC being that there already are over 100 mosques in the area. And while they terrorists may not represent the mindset of the majority of Muslims, the mere fact that they did what they did in the name of Islam is enough to pour salt on the wounds of the millions of people that were affected on that day by building that mosque there. To make matters worse, they want to officially open it next year on 9/11, now that's a slap in the face if I ever saw one. Bridge building, what a joke.

"70% of Americans do not want this mosque built there, whether they have the right to build there or not. This isn't about restricting their rights to worship."


An unalienable right is one that is not contingent on popular opinion. 70%, 80% or even 99%; it does not matter as they have the unalienable right to liberty and equality.

Debbie wrote:On September 11th at 2 p.m., there will be a rally on Park Place between Church and West Broadway.

I'm going...

It is being organized by the SIOA - "Stop Islamification of America."

"Stop Islamification of America."


How do you know that we won't Americanize Islam?

David wrote:Many web sites that claim all Jews follow Talmudic law to the letter. No so, I promise you! Most Christians I know hope the holy of holies grade on a curve. Perhaps not all Muslims are those of the radical persuasion.

I am inclined to agree that the location of the Mosque is chaffing, however the USofA is a better place because we DO permit it.

" Perhaps not all Muslims are those of the radical persuasion."

I think that it is a given that all Muslims, are not radicals. It is just a religion, and religion, as it often is, is used by horrible people to justify horrible acts. But by far the majority of followers, whether Christian, Jewish or Muslims, typically are not radicals. A radical is a radical, and regardless of how the scriptures are written they'll always find ways to use it to their own ends.

jeremyboycool wrote:" Perhaps not all Muslims are those of the radical persuasion."

I think that it is a given that all Muslims, are not radicals. It is just a religion, and religion, as it often is, is used by horrible people to justify horrible acts. But by far the majority of followers, whether Christian, Jewish or Muslims, typically are not radicals. A radical is a radical, and regardless of how the scriptures are written they'll always find ways to use it to their own ends.

The need to have the world, their way. The "purity" and simplicity of the vision makes the radical, iconic. Odd that.

David wrote:The need to have the world, their way. The "purity" and simplicity of the vision makes the radical, iconic. Odd that.

"The need to have the world, their way."

You mean like only allowing straight marriage?


I idea of unification and only truth is very common in religion. The mentality certainly is not exclusives to Muslims.

David wrote:The need to have the world, their way. The "purity" and simplicity of the vision makes the radical, iconic. Odd that.

Jesus was a radical.

cybotron r_9 wrote:With reference to Al Qaeda, how is this Mosque different than any other Mosque in New York? Is it the location that makes it special to the terrorists also?

This mosque is open to the public and being promoted as a multi-cultural center which defies the tenets of radical Islam.

JawZ wrote:Jesus was a radical.

Yep and those exploding fig vests did some real damage at market.

Leatherneck wrote:Yep and those exploding fig vests did some real damage at market.

jeremyboycool wrote:"The need to have the world, their way."

You mean like only allowing straight marriage?


I idea of unification and only truth is very common in religion. The mentality certainly is not exclusives to Muslims.

indeed.

JawZ wrote:Jesus was a radical.

He seemed to be a typical Essene...

Sounds like we have some muslims on this board.

Miggs wrote:Sounds like we have some muslims on this board.

Not aware of any, but if we did why is that a problem? Just because someone is Muslim doesn't mean they are a threat to society.

Leatherneck wrote:Yep and those exploding fig vests did some real damage at market.

Jesus was a radical...it's why he was killed. He was crucified exactly because of his "radical" thoughts.

Debbie wrote:On September 11th at 2 p.m., there will be a rally on Park Place between Church and West Broadway.

I'm going...

It is being organized by the SIOA - "Stop Islamification of America."

Remember when we (American troops and planes) went into Bosnia to kick some Christian ass because those Christian sonsofbitches were committing genocide?


Just an FYI...this is exactly how it all started in Yougoslavia.


Christians and Catholics are largely responsible for the majority of bloodshed in our modern history.


Maybe Mel Brooks can resurrect the Inquisition and that's how we'll stop this alleged Islamification of America!!!!

shudddupppp!

Debbie wrote:shudddupppp!

[YOUTUBE]oppHeMlaLVM[/YOUTUBE]

Miggs wrote:Sounds like we have some muslims on this board.

We do. Those who come immediately to mind (Amro and Mehmet) are smart and very decent fellows. Religion has little to do with character, so it seems.

@ Jawz

Taliban has their latest recruiting tool.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/30/tali ... cruit.html

More reason to support the Mosque...and very good reason from a seasoned veteran of the war backed up by logic.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/0 ... -al-qaeda/

Building an Islamic community center near the site of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in New York will "deprive al Qaeda of its No. 1 recruiting tool," a former United States military interrogator in Iraq said Wednesday.


"The No. 1 reason foreign fighters came to Iraq was Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo," said Matthew Alexander, the author of "How to Break a Terrorist," referring to the notorious U.S.-run prison in Iraq and the detention center for foreign fighters at the U.S. military base in Cuba.
"Symbols do matter," Alexander said, arguing: "What's going to end the conflict is defeating al Qaeda's ability to recruit."

We must reject our Islamaphobia no matter how much pain it causes. The terrorists desperately want us to reject this mosque as it symbolizes our intolerance. What we must soundly and vehemently reject is violent radicalism.

JawZ wrote:More reason to support the Mosque...and very good reason from a seasoned veteran of the war backed up by logic.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/0 ... -al-qaeda/




We must reject our Islamaphobia no matter how much pain it causes. The terrorists desperately want us to reject this mosque as it symbolizes our intolerance. What we must soundly and vehemently reject is violent radicalism.

What terrorists want or don't want should never be the reason for why we do something.

David wrote:We do. Those who come immediately to mind (Amro and Mehmet) are smart and very decent fellows. Religion has little to do with character, so it seems.

"Religion has little to do with character, so it seems."


It's hard to tell how much effect religion has on a person. But I think education and worldliness has a lot to do with combating extremism.

jeremyboycool wrote: It's hard to tell how much effect religion has on a person. But I think education and worldliness has a lot to do with combating extremism.

....worldliness has a lot to do with combating extremism."

Openmindeness, the ability to see colors beyond the black and white of ancient chauvinistic tenets.

Another question, if 2 blocks away isnt far enough, how many blocks away should a mosque be?

YARDofSTUF wrote:Another question, if 2 blocks away isnt far enough, how many blocks away should a mosque be?

Out of the financial district.

jeremyboycool wrote:What terrorists want or don't want should never be the reason for why we do something.

Agreed. We should allow it based on our principles alone. This just reinforces, in an ancillary way, why we should uphold our own principles.