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Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 10:49 am
by Needlefreak
Lotta that stuff...The Israeli on board also flew in the attack on Iraqs nuclear reactor..
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 10:54 am
by cybotron r_9
Shuttle takes first Israeli into space
Ilan Ramon (Colonel, Israel Air Force)
Payload Specialist
Terrorists? You bet. IMHO
and even if it were
terrorists do you think the government would tell the truth or say it was just a misplaced heat tile or some other BS
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:02 am
by Needlefreak
I think is this day and age they'll probally say is was sabotage by (insert whoever we hate) just to not admit they fudged up on the sheild..
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:08 am
by nepenthe
damn........ <sniffing back tears>
shant,
david
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:11 am
by JawZ
If anything...we need to spend money on safety.
First, the shuttle needs an ejection module. We have combat aircraft that have ejection modules. Expensive...but necessary imho.
Second, we need a space station....it can serve as a safe haven. If something is detected on launch then the astronauts can go to the station, dock, and inspect. If something is wrong. They stay there until it can be fixed.
Third, we need advanced AI systems/troubleshooters. If engineers say that something is good...let the AI computers run it through a barage of tests and models to see if their theories can hold up. We need to focus on outcomes. AI can help us chart these possibilities.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:16 am
by YARDofSTUF
that really sucks
ya know theres a risk of it happening but u just dont think it ever will.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:18 am
by Indy
Originally posted by UOD
If anything...we need to spend money on safety.
First, the shuttle needs an ejection module. We have combat aircraft that have ejection modules. Expensive...but necessary imho.
Second, we need a space station....it can serve as a safe haven. If something is detected on launch then the astronauts can go to the station, dock, and inspect. If something is wrong. They stay there until it can be fixed.
Third, we need advanced AI systems/troubleshooters. If engineers say that something is good...let the AI computers run it through a barage of tests and models to see if their theories can hold up. We need to focus on outcomes. AI can help us chart these possibilities.
Yep, these are all needed...
The unique situation here as compared to the Challenger explosion is the fact that there are still astronauts up in space that depend on the shuttle to get back to earth. We can't just suspend the shuttle missions...
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:31 am
by YeOldeStonecat
Those are probably near impossible though.....the CNN guy started hinting in on that, harping on "why wasn't there one"...but if you think of it, try ejecting something while the main object is traveling 'tween 15k and 20k mph, it would be even more catostrophic. They were in a transitional state speedwise, and in the atmosphere, were I really think an ejection capsule would be an impossible feat.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:32 am
by ScottE
The ejection module would only be effective during launch. I don't think it would be feasable to be able to eject this pod from the craft at 200,000+ ft traveling at 17,000 mph. Keep in mind that you still have to maintain a precise angle of attack in order to keep from burning up. Not saying that it's a bad idea I just don't think it would have helped in this instance.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:39 am
by JawZ
An ejection module would not have been practical in this scenario...that is why I suggested 3 things.
They should have never attempted re-entry if damage was discoverd post launch. They should dock with a space station and investigate.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:44 am
by Dakota
I just got up and read this on the news. Had been watching cable TV channels and had no idea this had happened. This is so, so sad. I am in shock as I watch all this. Looks like the damage to the wing on takeoff will be the ultimate cause. The thought that it's terrorism of some sort is just ludicrous.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:46 am
by Indy
Originally posted by Dakota
I just got up and read this on the news. Had been watching cable TV channels and had no idea this had happened. This is so, so sad. I am in shock as I watch all this. Looks like the damage to the wing on takeoff will be the ultimate cause. The thought that it's terrorism of some sort is just ludicrous.
Yep, given the conditions at which it happened, I'm inclined to believe that the shuttle suffered a structural failure (perhaps because of the debris from the launch), and something gave. Perhaps the wing (the first large piece of debris that shows on the video) broke off, causing the shuttle to go into an uncontrollable spin, breaking off other parts of the shuttle...
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:47 am
by Ghosthunter
I just woke up, and saw the news.
My condolences go out to the families.
I dont think it was terrorism at all, just an accident, which is a always a very high risk when doing space travel.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:49 am
by A_old
This sucks.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:49 am
by A_old
Originally posted by davy19
I just woke up, and saw the news.
My condolences go out to the families.
I dont think it was terrorism at all, just an accident, which is a always a very high risk when doing space travel.
me too
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:54 am
by A_old
Originally posted by John
I highly doubt terrorist involvement. NO way IMHO.
i agree there too..how could they have with that kind of security?
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:57 am
by Norm
Very sad
Not a good morning so far
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:58 am
by mwkirchner
They just made an "OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT" on TV and have said that the shuttle did indeed explode.
I realize that we all knew this ... but now they have made it official.
This is a very sad day in America as well as around the world.
I feel so sorry for the families who lost their loved ones in this terrible tragedy.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:59 am
by YeOldeStonecat
Gotta check the tube again, are they showing any major debris found yet? Wondering what kind of area large debris may have fallen in.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:00 pm
by JawZ
I agree. To even suggest terrorism is just ridiculous.
Space exploration is a dangerous business.
We need to pick up and press on.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:02 pm
by cybotron r_9
The experiments involve a menagerie of specimens: cancer cells, fungi, rodents, spiders, bees and silkworms, as well as the astronauts themselves. They will have sensors to measure their physiological changes in orbit.
maybe it was some sort of Physiological metamorphysis that caused the rodents to rebel against there captors and eat through some wiring that brought the shuttle down...just a thought
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:02 pm
by RoundEye
This is such tragic event.
We can give up ever having a nuclear powered space program. Opponents will use this as a prime example of the dangers, and what would happen if the space craft blew up.
Just think what it would be like right now if that shuttle was nuclear powered and had spread radiated waste all over Texas and Louisiana.
The poor families of the astronauts.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:04 pm
by ScottE
Originally posted by Indy
Yep, given the conditions at which it happened, I'm inclined to believe that the shuttle suffered a structural failure (perhaps because of the debris from the launch), and something gave. Perhaps the wing (the first large piece of debris that shows on the video) broke off, causing the shuttle to go into an uncontrollable spin, breaking off other parts of the shuttle...
From the video the shuttle looks pretty stable during reentry. I think it's either a failure of the reentry computers causing the shuttle to enter at too steep and angle thus causing the shuttle to burn up. Or Enough of the tiles fell off during the launch phase that during reentry the heat cause a ripple effect that caused more tiles to fall off (The first sign of breakup on the video) causing the shuttle to break up (second sign of debris) then the whole thing just goes up( the final part of that video when there are multiple burning trails of debris) Just specualtion at this point though. It wasn't terrorism the shuttle was over 3x higher than the highest SAM is capable of shooting. And was going way to fast for any SAM to keep up with it.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:05 pm
by YeOldeStonecat
Originally posted by RoundEye
The poor families of the astronauts.
Yeah, I couldn't even begin to fathom the moment down there....families joyous and excited about a triumphant return of their loved ones...then something appears to be wrong. Now imagine the NASA official who had to quickly usher the awaiting families into a room elsewhere...when the chaos began.
Oh man...oh man.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:06 pm
by Set
Man
I had to turn it off they where showing ther pics and going on and on about the them exploding 2,000 + feet
What a terible thing my Heart gos out to the love ones
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:06 pm
by ScottE
Originally posted by YeOldeStonecat
Gotta check the tube again, are they showing any major debris found yet? Wondering what kind of area large debris may have fallen in.
Yeah they showed a piece of debris on a road somewhere in Texas.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:14 pm
by Dakota
Latest is they say debris has been reported from Mexico through Arkansas.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:18 pm
by RoundEye
http://www.nasa.gov/
NASA STATEMENT ON LOSS OF COMMUNICATIONS WITH COLUMBIA
A Space Shuttle contingency has been declared in Mission Control, Houston, as a result of the loss of communication with the Space Shuttle Columbia at approximately 9 a.m. EST Saturday as it descended toward a landing at the Kennedy Space Center, Fla. It was scheduled to touchdown at 9:16 a.m. EST.
Communication and tracking of the shuttle was lost at 9 a.m. EST at an altitude of about 203,000 feet in the area above north central Texas. At the time communications were lost. The shuttle was traveling approximately 12,500 miles per hour (Mach 18). No communication and tracking information were received in Mission Control after that time.
Search and rescue teams in the Dallas-Fort Worth and in portions of East Texas have been alerted. Any debris that is located in the area that may be related to the Space Shuttle contingency should be avoided and may be hazardous as a result of toxic propellants used aboard the shuttle. The location of any possible debris should immediately be reported to local authorities.
Flight controllers in Mission Control have secured all information, notes and data pertinent to today's entry and landing by Space Shuttle Columbia and continue to methodically proceed through contingency plans.
News media covering the Space Shuttle should stay tuned to NASA Television, which is broadcast on AMC-2, transponder 9C, C-Band, located at 85 degrees West longitude. The frequency is 3880.0 MHz. Polarization is vertical and audio is monaural at 6.8 MHz. Reporters can also go to any NASA center newsroom to monitor the situation.
New information, including the times and locations of press briefings, will be posted to this page
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:27 pm
by YeOldeStonecat
I just found it ironic we were talking about the camcorder on model rockets on a thread earlier this morning.
http://forums.speedguide.net/showthread ... did=104867
Had pics from the rocket down to earth. Now were are all watching pics from the earth looking up at the re-entry of the space shuttle and the following catastrophe.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:35 pm
by RoundEye
Local AM radio is reporting that body parts have been found in Sabine Parish Louisiana.
This is so horrible.
In fact some of you may be able to hear it, WWL 870 AM. It's one of the strongest stations in the US.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:38 pm
by njeddiek
This is a terrible tragedy. My prayers go out to the families of the astronauts. With so many successful launches and Landings people forget how dangerous space flight is.
I was a senior in high school in Florida and witnessed the Explosion of the Challenger. Something I will never forget.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:41 pm
by JawZ
Originally posted by YeOldeStonecat
I just found it ironic we were talking about the camcorder on model rockets on a thread earlier this morning.
http://forums.speedguide.net/showthread ... did=104867
Had pics from the rocket down to earth. Now were are all watching pics from the earth looking up at the re-entry of the space shuttle and the following catastrophe.
Not only that....last night I was reading multiple articles on space flight....I'm always intrigued by the subject. The "For Alll Mankind" video which is stickied re-ignited my interest.
I found a beautiful pic of the Earth being viewed from the shuttle.
I posted it as my desktop background.
Then, i went to bed for the night. Woke up this morning after having a horrible nightmare of a fire.
this happened right before I woke up and came to SG......
Very sad day.
I still consider their mission a success though. They went to space and did their jobs. Hopefully the data they collected was sent back to Mission control and will one day be used in the advancement of mankind in space.
I don't think they died in vain.....
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:49 pm
by Randy
Originally posted by cybotron r_9
maybe it was some sort of Physiological metamorphysis that caused the rodents to rebel against there captors and eat through some wiring that brought the shuttle down...just a thought
YA... blame it on the rodents... pfft
i just saw some amature video and it looked like it impacted another object IMO
sorry for the loss of life and loss to space program
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:49 pm
by Krazy Kraut
hopefully the millions of dollars spent on crew safety after challenger
the crew might still be alive
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:55 pm
by YARDofSTUF
Originally posted by RoundEye
This is such tragic event.
We can give up ever having a nuclear powered space program. Opponents will use this as a prime example of the dangers, and what would happen if the space craft blew up.
Just think what it would be like right now if that shuttle was nuclear powered and had spread radiated waste all over Texas and Louisiana.
The poor families of the astronauts.
i do feel bad about it but i really hope with do head to nuclear power still.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:02 pm
by RoundEye
NASA stated that we would lose one in every seventy-five shuttles.
This was the 113th shuttle mission and the 28th flight of the Columbia.
Not the best record.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:20 pm
by The Dude
They are talking about a tire pressure problem. During the last bits of communication the space center acknowledged a message about tire pressure sent by the shuttle. They were having trouble understanding communications from the shuttle. Shortly after this they lost communication.
This is just so sad
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:25 pm
by Bouncer
Spaceflight is fundamentally a dangerous excercise. There will always be losses. There are so many forces conspiring against success on any level that every successful mission is almost a miracle.
This going to happen again and again. We cannot let it dampen our spirit for exploration. The astronauts themselves would insist on it. That is what truly separates mankind from the beasts in the forest. It's being willing to take that chance, to see what's over the next horizon.
God Speed Columbia.
Thomas Blakely
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:31 pm
by Dakota
Originally posted by RoundEye
NASA stated that we would lose one in every seventy-five shuttles.
This was the 113th shuttle mission and the 28th flight of the Columbia.
Not the best record.
Ahh but the Challenger was a technical faux pas and should never had been launched to begin with. Their 1-in-75 number is still good. If and only if you can even call that good.
My long-term fear is we'll be watching fat-cat congresspersons yakking about this for 18 months and they have not the slightest clue what happens in NASA.
We have people up there that need to be taken care of. Let's move on in a shortest time as possible. Yes find the reason, but move on and not let the Congress slow a process that we cannot afford to slow down.
That being said, Russia said they are sending up a re-supply mission to the Space Station tomorrow.
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:36 pm
by Ghosthunter
Originally posted by Dakota
Ahh but the Challenger was a technical faux pas and should never had been launched to begin with. Their 1-in-75 number is still good. If and only if you can even call that good.
My long-term fear is we'll be watching fat-cat congresspersons yakking about this for 18 months and they have not the slightest clue what happens in NASA.
We have people up there that need to be taken care of. Let's move on in a shortest time as possible. Yes find the reason, but move on and not let the Congress slow a process that we cannot afford to slow down.
That being said, Russia said they are sending up a re-supply mission to the Space Station tomorrow.
Yep true, I already turned off the TV, I dont want to keep seeing the same thing over and over again, and the media just loves this...they are having a field day.